Social media has changed our lives. Armed only only a phone, we can FaceTime relatives around the world, see our friends travelling the world on Instagram, check someone’s location on Snapchat, and watch a highlight video of their trip on TikTok. But there’s a difference between being connected – and having meaningful interactions. We don’t often find that on social media.
Now, a number of new studies are now backing up that feeling. When social media or high speed internet came into our lives, mental health plummeted, especially in children. This growing body of research suggests that social media apps are rewiring children’s brains and driving an increase in eating disorders, depression and anxiety. Today Darcy chats to Hannah Murphy from the Financial Times about the teen mental health crisis caused by our increased exposure to social media.
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Sascha: [00:00:03] I'm Sascha Kelly and welcome to the Dive, the podcast that asks whoever said the business news needs to be all business. Let me tell you a story. My alarm goes off every morning at 6:30 a.m.. I pick up my phone. I know I shouldn't, but I do. I open Instagram and I check if anyone's sent me a message, see if I've got any likes overnight. See what's going on. I start watching a funny reel about succession, and then I just start scrolling. By the time I check my clock again, half an hour has passed. This isn't an unusual morning for me, unfortunately. This is a little view into how my warnings are starting to look. Look how social media has changed our lives. Armed only with my phone, I can face time. My mum is in Brisbane. See Instagram stories of my friends travelling in Spain. Check someone's location on Snapchat and watch a highlight video of their trip on TikTok. But there is a difference between being connected and having meaningful interactions, and we don't often find that on social media if we're completely honest. And a number of new studies are now backing up that feeling. When social media or high speed Internet came into our lives, mental health plummeted, especially in children.
Audio Clip: [00:01:24] We have a major problem which we could call digital depression.
Sascha: [00:01:27] This growing body of research suggests that social media apps are rewiring children's brains and driving an increase in eating disorders, depression and anxiety. It's Friday, the 7th of April, and today I want to know how significantly is social media impacting our mental health and what is a healthy level of interaction with it. To talk about this today, I'm joined by Darcy Cordell. Darcy, welcome to The Dive.
Darcy: [00:01:52] Hi, Sascha. Thank you.
Sascha: [00:01:53] But we're not alone. We're actually going to talk to an expert who recently wrote an article on the teen mental health crisis. Aren't we, Darcy?
Darcy: [00:02:02] Yeah, that's right. Sascha We spoke to Hannah Murphy, who's a technology correspondent for the Financial Times in San Francisco, and she covers social media companies, including Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok. Here's my chat with Hannah. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Hannay: [00:02:16] Thank you, Darcy. Thanks for having me on.
Darcy: [00:02:18] So, Hannah, we all know the feeling, spending hours mindlessly scrolling Tik tok or Instagram. It can't be good for us. But now we're seeing more evidence to back that feeling up. What is the latest data saying about the overall decline in mental health?
Hannay: [00:02:34] So the latest data on mental health, particularly in children, is pretty bleak. And suicide amongst those aged between ten and 19 years old in the US surged by around 45% between 2010 and 2020, according to the CDC. A survey last month, also by the CDC found that nearly one in three teenage girls have seriously considered taking their own lives up from one in five in 2011. And clearly, parents are blaming this, obviously, on the advent of social media, on smartphones and computers, kind of changing the way which young people are interacting with the world. The argument is that we're seeing the shift in childhood from unsupervised free play towards being on our phones all day, socialising on our phones and this sort of rewiring the brain in a number of ways. That's kind of several different paths to this. One being the sleep that young people are up on their phones, not getting enough sleep, sleep deprivation and everything that comes with that irritability, whatever that might be, addiction, the idea that the dopamine hits from repeated use of these social media apps, if someone gives you a lick or a comment, the impact that can have on the brain, there's an area around sort of content exposure. So young people being exposed on the Internet to distressing content, to hypersexualized content, to self-harm content, and the idea that the algorithms that these apps have sort of pushed more and more of that content to a young person if they show an interest in those things in order to sort of maximise their engagement. And then there's just a question around sort of behaviours. Anecdotally it's sort of simply does not seem healthy for young people to be putting photos of themselves, 11 or 12 year old girls to be sort of rated with life or excitement by other people. What does that mean for their self-esteem.
Audio Clip: [00:04:35] What people say and what people tell me on how my looks are for some reason or other most important thing.
Audio Clip: [00:04:40] It's almost like we need public validation all the time to feel a sense of core self identity and self-esteem.
Darcy: [00:04:48] How much time are children spending on these platforms? You know, tick tock, YouTube, Snapchat.
Hannay: [00:04:53] So daily screen use on handheld devices between ages eight and 12 is around 5 hours from some of the studies that you come. And that's sort of rising over time, obviously, from, you know, some two decades ago when it was sort of non existent does also include gaming. But sometimes the teenagers, it's sort of as high as 8 hours a day. Some studies have found sort of spending sort of longer than they are asleep for, longer than they might be at school or with their families. The data looking at this finds this particularly stark for young girls who are heavy users. There's a sort of the two criteria, the heavy, heavy user. The more this seems to have an impact on their mental health, whereas light users might by and large be fine. I'm not sort of those studies are sort of correlational studies. Then there is a few more studies that by and large suggest causation, sort of that by looking at a sequence of events over time. So proving that it's not someone who's depressed, who then goes on social media after the fact, it's more the more they use it and that that affects the mood. But I suppose I caution that there are researchers who dispute this reading of the data in its totality. They say it's inconclusive. They argue that sort of correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but it's not clear enough that social media is just one factor that has changed and might have that impact on mental health. So what about the pandemic, for example? And others will point to studies that show, you know, actually for young men who are identified as being sort of lonely and have struggled to find community. Social media apps have helped them find that. And it's a positive experience. So there's a bit of debate in the academic community.
Darcy: [00:06:49] And how did the last couple of years, especially we've seen the rise of Tik Tok, YouTube's incredibly popular Snapchat, are all these platforms, according to some studies. Are they similarly detrimental or are there some platforms that are more harmful than others?
Hannay: [00:07:05] I think some of the platforms themselves try to argue that, but the studies less seem to pass judgement on individual platforms relative to the other. But they might focus in on certain platforms. And it does seem that sort of, you know, the more visual platforms that encourage photos of themselves such as Tik-tok or Instagram can be sort of more harmful obviously when it comes to body image issues. But even sort of messaging and disappearing messaging can be addictive from your children. Sleep deprived. So there's no I don't think any platform gets a free pass.
Darcy: [00:07:39] So governments are now recognising this issue and beginning to act. We know in the US that they're hoping to ban Tik Tok, although there are some other reasons for that as well. In your article in the Financial Times, you refer to changes being made in the UK. Can you tell us about those and are there any other examples from around the world?
Hannay: [00:07:57] Yeah, so there's sort of several different areas in which legislation is being brought in or considered. One would be around how the platforms are designed at their core. So in the UK and soon in California, there's something called the age appropriate design code, which essentially mandates online platforms that social media platforms, among them to take account of the best interests of children when they're designing the platform. So that might be they don't use nudge techniques to try to get kids to stay longer or to hand over more data that they don't necessarily need to. So that's kind of how the underlying infrastructure, the platforms are designed. Then there's some legislation around focussed on kind of content and protecting children from all what's deemed to be sort of harmful content. So in the UK, the online harms bill sort of mandates that platforms protect kids from the stuff. And then there's a kind of a bit of a groundswell recently of some states in the US in particular looking at bills around getting parental consent for using social media. So Utah just passed a bill that would impact make all uses of social media have to be verified in order to use it, and then those under 18 require parental consent starting in 2024. There's some privacy concerns there. If I'm a 17 year old and fairly adult at that point, do I want my mom to be able to see my messages? But yeah, similar proposals are being put forward in the text in the science.
Darcy: [00:09:36] So, Hannah, we've talked about the government response to these issues, but I also want to find out how big tech is responding. We'll take a quick break. But I also want to find out a few practical tips that we can implement to have a healthier relationship with social media.
Sascha: [00:09:53] Welcome back to The Dive, Darcy. Today we're talking about the impact social media has had on our collective mental health. I can say most certainly that when I'm feeling stressed, I notice myself reaching for my phone and opening Instagram a little more often. Sometimes I just delete the app off my phone just in the hope it subsides that urge a little bit. I didn't want to be a straw poll of one dose, so I asked a couple of friends for their thoughts and this is what they said.
Audio Clip: [00:10:24] In terms of the most addictive apps on my phone, I really feel like it's a battle between TikTok and Instagram. I think Tik Tok actually wins, but because I know it's so addictive, I try not to open it most days. And then when I do open it, I just kind of commit to be here for a while.
Audio Clip: [00:10:38] Whilst I do really enjoy being on TikTok in the moment. I often get a real sense of dread afterwards when I reflect on the hours of time that have just slipped away. I think when I'm watching a movie or a series, it's something that I can discuss with friends or bond with people over bit. And I'm watching TikTok. It just feels so unproductive. Most of the time I couldn't even tell you what I've watched. Luckily, TikTok for me is really more of a down time like alone time activity, so I really only use the app if I don't have all the stuff to do. So it's not sort of eating into my work time, etc.. Having said that, I will say that I have found myself reaching for the app if I'm a touch anxious.
Sascha: [00:11:18] That's right. There we go. Darcy That is a word from the community.
Darcy: [00:11:22] Some really interesting insights there. Sascha It's good to know that I'm not alone in having those feelings, but let's get back into my chat with Hannah. I've just asked about the response the governments have made to this decline in mental health, but there's also calls for big tech to take more responsibility. How are they responding?
Hannay: [00:11:40] So they have responded by firstly kind of pushing back on the idea that social media is the cause of all of this. They say it's one of many factors, but we're listening to your concerns. They've started making some tweaks to the platform, so bolstering the technology around age verification and ramping up the policing of harmful content and introducing more kind of parental control settings. Instagram recently introduced a kind of default setting that will reduce the amount of sensitive content that younger users see. And it also had a plan to introduce Instagram for kids, some sort of under the teen version of the app. And it's decided to put that on ice after a backlash from politicians. And then I'd say the other trend is just towards sort of setting reminders for kids to check in, to log us blocking notifications at night that might wake them up. So sort of screen time limits for young people to sort of make that use usage more, more healthy.
Darcy: [00:12:47] Hannah, Do you think this regulation is the beginning of a new wave of governments trying to rein in the power of these platforms? Or what do you think will happen in the next couple of years?
Hannay: [00:12:57] I think that this is one of the few areas that has bipartisan support. It's a kind of unity amongst the right and the left. When you watch these hearings, it's what about the kids? What about the kids? And it doesn't matter where you stand on the political spectrum. So I think the platforms are very acutely aware of this and are trying definitely to be more proactive than they might normally be to sort of fend off any potential regulation. At the same time, the platforms are desperately trying to win that younger audience, especially now that you have sort of tick tock coming in as a very compelling competitor. And so you have social media companies wanting to get young people sort of hooked early. This sort of battle to get creators and influencers on board which bring those young audiences with them. So you sort of got these competitive elements here and then trying to get ahead of potential regulation, whether anything happens. I mean, obviously have all these bills in play that you just mentioned, but I think in the next few years we see those actually being enforced and sort of depends how successful they are, whether it's a cold call out for sort of more beyond.
Darcy: [00:14:16] So, Hannah, it's rounded out. I'm personally 26 years old. I've got all the apps we've mentioned. I've got Tick Tock, YouTube, I still have Snapchat, although I don't use it. What the experts say is a healthy amount of interaction with these apps or are there any recommendations on how we should engage with it.
Hannay: [00:14:34] From the fact that the social platforms have all taken steps to introduce these time breaks, screen limits? You know, you imagine they are going out to experts and consulting with them. Now, that is when you read research, one of the things that stands out, me, pieces of advice, take breaks, cut time limits. Don't use your phone in bed late at night, for example. And when you use your devices, do so with intention rather than sort of mindless scrolling that you mentioned at the beginning, going down rabbit holes. So I think those are the sort of top bits of advice. But obviously at this point that's such a crucial part of our daily lives.
Darcy: [00:15:21] To some, some great points and some good things to take away. Hannah, thank you so much for joining us.
Hannay: [00:15:26] Thank you.
Sascha: [00:15:28] Excellent conversation there with Hannah from the Financial Times. Darcy, do you have any final takeaways?
Darcy: [00:15:35] The story here is the data, Sascha. We can all feel that spending hours scrolling social media apps, it's clearly not good for us. But now there's just this growing body of evidence that is proving that feeling. And I do sympathise with people because these apps are clearly designed to be incredibly addictive and they want to keep you online for as long as they can. So it's really hard, but we need to just be aware of that. And I think Hannah shared some great tips on how to manage your screen time, and it's just important to be aware that spending too much time on social media can be pretty harmful.
Sascha: [00:16:09] Well, look, Darcy, I'm going to lean into the irony and say we're going to leave it there for today. But if you are spending time on social media, do us a favour and share that you love the dive. Take a screenshot or wherever you're listening to this and post it and help other people find it. If you do spend time on these apps and helping us spread the word about the dive does help us out. Darcy, thanks so much for joining me today.
Darcy: [00:16:33] Thanks, Sascha.
Sascha: [00:16:34] Until next time.