Should Daylight Saving Time be permanent?

Sascha: [00:00:04] I'm Sascha Kelly and welcome to The Dive, the podcast that asks whoever said that business news needs to be all business. I want you to hold on because we're tackling a controversial topic today. Here's a question to give you a bit of a clue this weekend. If you're in the southern states, are we springing forward or falling back? Yep, that's right. We're talking about daylight savings. I love that saying. I love saying to help me remember anything. And it helps me remember which way the clocks are going to move. This Sunday, the start of April, because they will go back one hour in New South Wales, Victoria, Act, Tasmania and South Australia. We're missing a couple of our friends and other states there because daylight savings is a common practice globally, but not everyone agrees with it. 

Audio Clip: [00:00:52] Many people complain that it messes with their bio rhythm and they just don't see the need for it. Inspiring a hashtag and a movement with tweets like this one. Parents, let's all unite to end daylight saving. 

Sascha: [00:01:04] Those who follow it do mostly love it and those who don't seem to hate it. It's so polarising that Lebanon actually split into two different time zones last week after the government decided not to change the clocks. And half the country just went ahead and did it anyway. And here at home, those living on the New South Wales and Queensland border know the pain all too well. For six months of the year, they're one hour apart despite them living right next to each other. 

Audio Clip: [00:01:34] It's been debated for decades, but as Southern states wound forward their clocks overnight, Queensland is no closer to daylight savings. The Lord Mayor launching another campaign pushing for a trial of the summertime scheme. 

Sascha: [00:01:48] In the US. A new law has been proposed that would make daylight savings permanent, with supporters saying it will quote, jump start the economy and quote, act as a stimulus package in itself. So today we wanted to find out, is that true? It's Friday, the 31st of March. And today I want to know what impact does Daylight Savings Time have on the economy and my health. To talk about this today, I'm joined by my colleague here at Equity Mates. And the co-founder shouldn't sell him short. It's Alec Renehan. And Alec, welcome to The Dive. 

Alec: [00:02:21] Good to be here, Sascha. I love that in however many episodes we've done, we've done protests in China, pokies in New South Wales, a four day workweek around the world. And yet this episode on Daylight Savings may go down as our most controversial.

Sascha: [00:02:37] It splits families apart, I tell you. Let's get into it with some history. The first country to implement Daylight Savings Time was Germany in 1916, and they were looking to save money on energy costs during World War One. So they launched a daylight savings practice that was followed by most of Europe and then the United States, who started it in 1918. Today, 40% of countries around the world observe daylight savings. 

Alec: [00:03:05] Yeah, that's right, 40%. And the differences in daylight hours are most extreme near the poles. So most countries near the equator aren't in that 40%. They don't observe Daylight saving time. Here in Australia, Queensland, Western Australia and the Northern Territory don't observe daylight savings time in the US. Two states have decided to abolish it. Most of Africa and most of Asia don't observe Daylight Saving time. But this one surprised me, Sascha. Russia, although it's well north of the equator and would perhaps benefit from daylight Savings Times, chooses not to. 

Sascha: [00:03:44] Interesting that that surprises me as well. Look, I know a few of the anecdotal reasons, but can you sum up why it's such a polarising issue? 

Alec: [00:03:53] It comes down to the amount of disruption it causes to work and routine. And, you know, sometimes the smaller disruptions are the ones that really grind your gears a little bit more. And this feels like a classic example of that. My dad grew up in Murwillumbah, which is on the south side of the New South Wales Queensland border. And so, you know, he and his family lived through this, but they weren't alone. Darcy, who's not in with us here today, but he was telling us a story about a family member who lives on the Queensland side of the border and her hairdresser is literally on the other side of the road 50 metres away. But that other side of the road is in New South Wales and she often turns up an hour late for her haircut because she just forgets she's in a different time zone. So, you know, small annoyances add up to big frustrations I get, but around the world it's not always small. In Lebanon, the government announced an unexpected one month delay to the start of daylight savings time last week. But a huge proportion of companies and people just decided to ignore the government. And so the country has been. Operating on two time zones at the same time, not split by a border, but just based on what people want to follow. Imagine trying to schedule a meeting in Lebanon. 

Sascha: [00:05:13] You know, we joke about the fact that these are little things like missing hairdressers appointments or just trying to schedule meetings, but efficiency seems to be the backbone of so many economic benefits. So it is actually a big deal. And the U.S. Senator Marco Rubio's Sunshine Protection Act is actually proposing that Daylight Savings Time be observed year round. And it actually passed a vote in the U.S. Senate last year. 

Audio Clip: [00:05:38] Now, Florida Senator Marco Rubio has also reintroduced the Sunshine Protection Act to the full Senate, reminding lawmakers that locking the clock has overwhelming bipartisan support. 

Alec: [00:05:50] Marco Rubio wanted to make daylight savings Time permanent, which is another way of saying moving the clocks forward one hour permanently. He proposed it in 2018. It didn't get through committee. He proposed it again in 2019. It also didn't get through committee. He proposed it in 2021. It passed the Senate, I think, unanimously. But then it didn't get brought for a vote in the House. But, Sascha, perhaps not surprisingly, this year he has reintroduced it for the fourth time. Marco Rubio, this is his big issue. He's not going to give this one up. The 115th Congress didn't pass and the 116th Congress didn't pass the 117th. Congress didn't pass it. Marco's banking on 118th Congress to finally pass this bill.

Sascha: [00:06:42] Who doesn't love a passion project? And I, for one, love daylight savings. So let's look at the pros and cons, and I'm going to be selfish and say, let's dig into the fun prose first because I want to hear the supportive facts. But daylight savings, what are the benefits? 

Alec: [00:06:58] So there are a number of benefits that Marco Rubio and other supporters will point to. 

Audio Clip: [00:07:03] You can argue that more sunlight in the day would cut back on car crashes, crime, energy bills and health risks.

Alec: [00:07:10] We're a business podcast here. So let's start with the economic benefits. 

Audio Clip: [00:07:15] For us to have an extra hour of daylight means you can come from work, go climbing on the.

Audio Clip: [00:07:20] Cliffs, but also give us a little extra, possibly an extra setting or two on a Friday and Saturday night, which is always helpful. 

Alec: [00:07:26] JPMorgan Chase found that there is a drop in economic activity of between about two and 5% when clocks move back. So that's meaningful. Looking at the golf industry in particular, one of the hardest hit by these changes in 1986, the Gulf industry reported that the extra month of Daylight Savings Time introduced brought in an additional $200 million in sales of golf clubs and green fees and the barbecue industry. Sash Sascha, That's another big industry that benefits from daylight savings. That extra month that was introduced in the US in the eighties, was worth an extra $100 million to the barbecue industry. 

Sascha: [00:08:09] My ears did pick up at barbecue, not so much with golf, but but I do like a barbecue. 

Alec: [00:08:16] So outside of the economic benefits, there are some other reasons why people are supportive of introducing daylight savings or making daylight savings permanent. Crime reduces because of daylight savings. The number of robberies were down 27%, according to a 2015 study because of an additional hour of daylight in the evenings. Separately, US law enforcement report that crime drops between ten and 13% during daylight savings months. 

Sascha: [00:08:47] That really surprised me. 

Alec: [00:08:48] I guess it's better to break into houses in the dark. Ernie, there's a number of health benefits. It's reported that Daylight Savings Time reduces a risk for cardiac issues, stroke and seasonal depression, and it improves mental and physical health. 

Audio Clip: [00:09:05] As soon as we lose the hour of daylight. I just find that, like, my my mood significantly drops off immediately. 

Alec: [00:09:13] A big uptick in physical activity during the daylight savings time months. The Journal of Environmental Psychology found that Daylight Savings Times increased pedestrian activity by 62% and cyclist activity by 38% in the US. I guess part of my question though is that it also coincides with Summer. So how do you control for just it being warmer and more light generally? But anyway, who are we to argue with the Journal of Environmental Psychology? And then a final benefit, Sascha, it saves energy. A 2008 study by the U.S. The Department of Energy found that after the United States extended daylight savings by an additional four weeks in 2005, there were savings of about zero point. 5% of electricity used per day. 

Sascha: [00:10:05] So let's go to the other side of the argument. And I actually gave someone close to me a call to get their thoughts on it. And Alec, after the break, we're also going to find out why daylight savings makes you 24% more likely to have a heart attack. Hello. Hello. Let's go to a really quick one for you. Daylight Savings. You work online all the time? Yes. How does it affect you being in Queensland? Because I'm in Victoria. So we're in different time zones for half the year. And I know you work with a lot of people overseas. Is it a pain? Yeah, it is, actually, because just always having to be mindful of trying to make sure that we're connecting on exactly the right timeframe, particularly when there's multiple people. I do quite a bit of connection with the UK and they just assume that we're all on the same timezone. So we get quite ignored sometimes and it's tricky when they're trying to deal with different time zones in Australia. And so. Quick poll. Do you want Queensland to have it or not? Oh I would say yes. The Brisbane that I think it's really tricky for northern parts of Queensland that stay hot until the sun goes down unbearably hot. I think as with such a huge state the impact is really different between say Queensland and all my mates in the north of the state. Look, I like anecdotal research, does have its place. Welcome back to The Dive, where today we're talking about Daylight Savings time. So my mum raised how tricky it can be in Queensland. Let's get into the cons for daylight savings. 

Alec: [00:11:47] So Sascha, your body clock doesn't know what time the clock on the wall says it is. So your body clock stays with natural light, not with the changing daylight savings time. And that can have a significant impact on sleep patterns. There's no evidence that over the course of six months your body actually adjusts to the new time. Standard time, when we return from daylight Savings time, is much closer to the sun's day and night cycle. This cycle has set our circadian rhythm or body clock for centuries, so that's the big argument. There are also some stats that support this lack of sleep argument. Workplace injuries increased by 5.7% during daylight savings, and so this is a scary number. Heart attacks rise by as much as 24% on the Monday following the annual spring forward. Both the heart attack and workplace injuries are attributed to lack of adequate sight. Then there are also some other challenges. Obviously business disruptions, the need to adjust work schedules and synchronise calendars, especially with global businesses, with international partners that can lead to disruption and confusion. And studies have actually shown that as energy efficiency in lighting has been approved, the purported energy savings of daylight savings might be overstated. There's an argument that Daylight Savings Time doesn't actually save money or save energy and may actually increase energy spending as people prefer to spend their warm summer evenings indoors next to the energy guzzling air conditioners. 

Sascha: [00:13:27] Do I love my energy guzzling air conditioner in summer? So it seems like if I sum it up, there's economic benefits to Daylight Savings time. But the flipside is that there's more negative effects on our health, which do end up having an impact on the economy anyway. 

Alec: [00:13:42] Yeah, I think there's arguments either way and there's plenty of factors to consider outside of the economic and the health arguments as well. Right now, Sascha, where I am in Sydney, the sun isn't rising until well after 7 a.m.. If we had year round daylight saving, we would be getting to work and it would still be dark in the middle of winter. In the US there's a similar argument. They argue that if Marco Rubio gets his bill passed in some parts of the United States, it won't get light until 9 a.m..

Audio Clip: [00:14:12] The Sunshine Protection Act is trying to make daylight saving permanent, but there are some side effects you need to know about. If the bill passes, we would get a sunset after 6 p.m. year round, but there will be fewer mornings with the sun rising before 7 a.m. a possible concern meteorologist Chris Michaels has when trying to get to work or school in a snowstorm. 

Audio Clip: [00:14:35] You may have some days in the winter that the sun's not rising until 830, 840, or something like that. So that's a delay in the process of ice or snow melting. So instead of there may be a two hour delay, you might have a three hour delay, you may have school being closed. 

Alec: [00:14:50] So really what it comes down to, what it always comes down to with daylight savings, would you prefer to get an extra hour of light in the afternoon, in the evening, or would you prefer the sun to be up early? 

Sascha: [00:15:01] And that's not the only discussion up for debate. There's whether there should be any daylight savings, as in during the summer months. And then there's the debate, which this bill is kind of a part of, which is if you have a year around standard time versus daylight savings time. 

Alec: [00:15:17] Yeah, that's right. I'm not aware of many people making the argument for permanent daylight savings time outside of. Marco Rubio. But how do you know where the US goes? The rest of the world often follows Sascha. As a proud Queenslander, you'd be interested to know that there is a push, a slowly growing push to have a referendum on whether to adopt Daylight Savings Time or stay without it. Honestly, I don't think a lot is going to change and I think people are still going to get frustrated whichever side of the argument they fall. 

Sascha: [00:15:51] So final takeaways, Alec, have you got any. 

Alec: [00:15:53] Minor economic benefits? Minor health detriments. 

Audio Clip: [00:15:57] We believe as medical experts that having the light in the morning is the healthiest choice for us. 

Alec: [00:16:06] But as we said at the start, the minor issues can lead to the biggest frustrations. And that certainly happens with this story. 

Sascha: [00:16:13] Absolutely. And well said. Look, I'm looking forward to my sleep in on Sunday. Either way, I'm heading to the F1 tomorrow, so I think I'm going to need an extra hour or two on Sunday morning. And here's something you can do for us when you're having a lion this weekend if you are part of the southern states. Here's one thing you can do with that extra time. You can share our story, share The Dive on social media with a friend. Just help us spread the word. That's a huge help. So thank you in advance. Thanks so much for joining me today, Alec.

Alec: [00:16:45] Thanks, Sascha. Now, I'm going to remember to move my clock forward on Sunday. Forward. 

Sascha: [00:16:50] I just have an iPhone and it doesn't fully. All right. Until next time.