Expert: Gary Glover – Do the opposite of how you feel | IG

Bryce: [00:00:13] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast that follows our journey of investing. Whether you're an absolute beginner or approaching Warren Buffett status, our aim is to help break down your barriers from beginning to dividend. If you are joining us for the very first time, welcome and thank you for becoming an equity. If you are still getting up to speed with the basics, you can check out our Get Started Investing podcast. But let's crack on. My name is Bryce. Unfortunately, Ren is not joining us today, but nonetheless, we are very excited for this episode as we continue with the second episode in our series on investing psychology brought to you by AIG. Now, if you missed the first episode, it was with Jason McIntosh, released on the 3rd of March. Our brains aren't naturally wired for trading, but they can be rewired and it is helping traders master their trading mind and to take control of the emotions, biases and psychological influences that come with trading. And we're going to unpack a few of those today. This helps traders to develop and stick to a plan to stay cool under pressure and be the best that they can be focusing on. Trading Psychology has collected a wealth of information, including interviews with experts in the field, articles, podcasts and e-books all brought together in a dedicated Master Your Trading Mind hub. So search master your trading mind or head to the master your trading mind hub on IG Rt.com to find out more. But I'm really pleased to welcome another expert to the studio today to help us continue unpacking the psychology of investing. So Gary Glover, welcome.

Gary: [00:01:45] Thank you very much for having me. 

Bryce: [00:01:47] So Gary is a senior investment advisor at Novus Capital and we're going to be looking at managing emotions, habit formation, trading day and AI, and then some of the tools and resources that Gary uses to find information and inspiration when investing. So Gary, let's get stuck into it. Really interesting the topics today. We don't often cover the psychology of investing, so we're super keen to get stuck in. If you had to associate one emotion with your investing, what would it be?

Gary: [00:02:18] It's funny. So that I mean, I'm not just not a broker, actually, I'm a I'm a I'm a trader as well. So I love the trading side of the market and the psychology of it. So talking about psychology is fantastic. Probably the one big emotion for me that I've had to master is a compulsion to trade. So I felt like I had to be in the market the whole time. And then once, I mean, having to do something. But as we know sort of about trading is you sort of, you know, you have to sort of learn to sometimes sitting out waiting and letting everyone else make the mistakes when the market's not ready. Laying the foundations for your success is a couple of the key things I've really learnt in the last couple of years. And then once you're in a position as well, not trying to get out at the first little uptick or first move is actually sitting following a process and just trying to sit through that. And that's, that's probably the hardest thing for me as a trader to do is after reviewing going back and probably doing a pretty heavy review a few years ago, I just realised I was trading too much here, so I needed to sit out and wait more patiently. And once I'm in positions, stay patient. And yeah, as you know, I often sort of said it's the setting where you make the money. 

Bryce: [00:03:34] Yeah. So we'll, we'll unpack a bit of your, I guess system and approach to trading in a moment. But how do you define your trading like there's the one on one end, you've got the Warren Buffett buy in and hold firm, let compounding do its thing for 60 years. And on the other hand you've got the ultra short term algorithmic trading. Where do you lie on that scale? 

Gary: [00:03:59] You're probably somewhere in the middle. It's definitely a bias to technical analysis. So having been on the market for 20 years and you learn a few fundamental analysis sort of skills, but the technical analysis is probably kind of where I sort of sit, what's the phrase? I say that it's in the short term, it's a voting machine. In the long term, it's a phantom earnings or, you know, languishing in terms of earnings. It's tough there, but I'm not sure I agree with that concept, actually, because we think about Amazon, which is probably one of the best stocks fundamentally on the planet for the last 20 years for pretty hard to disagree. That's not in the top five or, you know, stocks in the world. That stock went up into 2000, had a massive run there up to about and lied to us like fell after the tech boom so lost 94% of its value, took ten years to go back and revisit that high then obviously went on afterwards, just had a 57% decline in the last 12 months. You know if you want to self, yeah, fundamentals will get you into that stock. But where does it get you in. And when does it get you out? You know, I think there's got to be some timing in there, some, you know, using some technicals, using, you know, whether it's market psychology covering today, whether we're looking at, you know, some technical entry and stuff there, you know, valuation metrics and stuff there. But valuation metrics are always the good stocks, always expensive. They're never cheap. So it's hard to actually use valuation metrics, technicals, if you're using just a simple moving average or something that at least status has got you an entry and exit. So really, I think if you're not looking at charts and elegant technicals, then I think you're operating with one arm behind your back. 

Bryce: [00:05:39] Interesting. Well, Gary, I can tell you I do not operate with technicals, mainly because it's something that I've just never spent the time really sitting down to fully understand. I know by speaking to people like yourself and plenty of experts that have come on the show that it can be a lever you can pull to know or to optimise when you do get into stocks and particularly when you want to get out of stocks. So really interested to unpack this a little bit more in detail.

Gary: [00:06:07] Well, it's the buying and the entering is as is the easy part.

Bryce: [00:06:11] Yeah. 

Gary: [00:06:11] It's selling and the exciting. That's the difficult part. So you're, you know, whether it's investment trading, whatever the strategy is, there's got to be some mechanism, some strategy, some some rules for exiting. So how do you do that without charts?

Bryce: [00:06:26] Well, let's leave that as a cliff-hanger, because we will get to some of your rules a little bit later. But I want to continue with managing your emotions. You said that that compulsion to trade is one of the biggest emotions that you've had to overcome and understand. What are some of the other key emotions I guess that you experience? If you were to think of your sort of trading as a lifecycle.

Gary: [00:06:49] Thing about trading, as most people don't really understand the mechanics of the market to the point where emotions are actually the worst thing as a trader. So really you're actually if you could do the opposite to how you feel, you'll probably be operating almost in sync with the market correctly. So you think about it obviously, like when the market's sort of in freefall and everyone's panicking and the world's falling apart, You know, there's so many issues in the world and so many fears. Everyone's intensely scared, frightened to invest. That is without doubt usually the perfect time to be buying. And when in the opposite side of that is that, you know, companies or the economy is booming, everything's perfect. You know, companies are, you know, just humming earnings, spilling out cash. Nothing can go wrong. It's perfect. Why would you So you be crazy to be selling right now. That's usually the perfect time to be selling. So those two ends are exactly the opposite of how you feel at the time. So if you can actually, you know, having worked in dealing rams for 20 years, I've got going to deliver rooms like 30 or 40 advisors there. And when I've seen advisors come in and in tears in a panic and there's two or three guys freaking out, got to get out and got a, you know, got to cut their portfolios in half. Just got to sell stocks today. I know I've got to go out today and start buying and start getting aggressive and start really sort of filling the portfolio. So it's just that history says that's the right time to be to actually sort of really sort of getting into the market there. 

Bryce: [00:08:24] Interesting. So if you can identify what you're feeling and then think the opposite, you might do, right? 

Gary: [00:08:30] That's exactly right. Yeah. 

Bryce: [00:08:31] So just on that, bring that back to the technical side of things. Does that to technicals then match that as well. Like if there's euphoria, will technicals in some way help you understand that, hey, we should actually be out here. And similarly, if there's like fear and and a lot of panic out there, will technicals tell. 

Gary: [00:08:51] You that Yeah. 

Bryce: [00:08:51] Now is actually a good time to get in. 

Gary: [00:08:55] Like we've just sort of seen elements of the market have a pretty good look. Commodities, obviously energy, coal, even material stocks, they're sort of in the last sort of six months, have had a really, really strong move up. But if you look at the technicals there, the technicals will sort of show you for the last couple of months, they've been moving up on declining volumes. So the participation rates are getting lower and lower and lower. So if you go back and look at the 8708 high for a lot of those BHP and Rio, you'll see as I got closer to the top, the volume just dropped off. So the last leg up there was just very, very little participation and that's sort of like that's a lot of the sort of key elements you sort of learn with the market as well. Like at the end of a bull market, it's the very few stocks remaining that do the heavy lifting at the end. So you get most of the stocks all turning down. CC All the same things, all the same characteristics all happen over and over again. And we saw it in, you know, a couple of years ago in sort of November, they were, you know, sort of only really I think it was the top five stocks were, you know, had like 25% of the wedding in the S&P and they were doing all the heavy lifting, whereas a lot of the stocks were already turned down. And so I think about a lot of Nasdaq stocks. So you sort of see that occurring all the time there. So the technicals will sort of tell you this if you sort of seeing that euphoria and then you sort of got to look at the charts and say what's happening, my charts as well. So looking at sort of volumes and stuff there. The other thing there is the psychology of it as well. Have a look at what everyone's saying in the market, the sort of you know, I'll ask you a question here. Okay. Really two question. So if you're watching US Bears or CNBC and say for analysts, you know, brokers, analysts come on within an hour and they all say the same thing. We love coal, we love energy, what does that mean? 

Bryce: [00:10:37] It's too hot. 

Gary: [00:10:38] From a psychology point of view also as well. So like in terms of like. 

Bryce: [00:10:42] Buy now. 

Gary: [00:10:43] Find it will if you think from a trading point of view, if you're a trader and everyone's a trader out there, whether they're broker analyst, whatever else, do you tell people about your bad trades or if you're good trades. 

Bryce: [00:10:54] Good trades, you could trade.

Gary: [00:10:55] So so normally sort of, you know, if you've bought something in the sector has gone down 5%, you're normally not going to go on any of those channels and start saying, Hey, we like this even though we're down 5%, Yeah, you're only going to say, Hey, we like this, we're, we're out. Yeah. So things we've already participated in, we've just got in, it's going a bit higher. We're feeling good about it. Okay, so when four analysts come on in an hour and say, We love coal, we love coal, we love coal, love coal, or we love energy, whatever, this is all saying the same thing. What does that mean? Does that mean that they're they haven't actually bought yet and they've given you that early tip and they're going to go and buy clients and give you time to beat their clients? 

Bryce: [00:11:33] It means they've already bought it. They want people to get in and buy.

Gary: [00:11:36] Yeah, CBA is going to say they bought some, maybe they buy some later at see they've already bought, they've already basically positioned and that's it. You're already in front of them. You're already well, you're not front of that. You're already at the front of the queue. Hazel Yeah, you're actually thinking right there, Bryce. Because everyone's already bought. So if four brokers come in an hour and that's not just sort of, if you are unlucky to get probably the four innovators who come in early, they're probably just going to be more vanilla. Yeah. So if everyone comes on and says We like this, we like this, we like this, they have all already positioned themselves and they're already done, they're buying. So if everyone's already bought who's who's left to buy. 

Bryce: [00:12:15] And not a lot of. 

Gary: [00:12:15] People. Not a lot of people. Yeah. So when the market sort of says they love the sector so we saw it. Yeah. But sort of six months ago with coal stocks have to be in coal making so much money we like koala coal we like coal everyone likes it because they've bought it and scaled up slightly. But at some point there, once everyone likes it so much, the market's in unison, there's no one left to buy. And that's when they stocks sort of start to retreat. And then so it was energy maybe three months ago as well. You saw every analyst saying we're going to have energy in a powerful you must have energy in the portfolio. By the time everyone says you must have that sector, it's it's nuts. No one left away. And so Simon reverse is that we don't like yeah retail about retail store retail stocks have a massive rally after everyone said don't hold them Yeah because interest rates are going up the price. Yes so it's sort of, you know, tells you where everyone's already positioned. So if you're actually listening out there as the psychology makes a really big difference, it's sort of because it actually tells you where everyone is already invested, where everyone sort of positioned. 

Bryce: [00:13:14] So what's a strategy or like how do you practically implement that knowledge into trading? Like if you were if you were to hear analysts come on and say, coal, coal, coal, I was one of them sitting here. I didn't buy any because I guess through experience, the time to buy it was December 2021, just before the Ukraine invasion all happened and energy markets went crazy. That was the time when no one was talking about it, the time when everyone was talking about it in late last year when everything had just run incredibly hot. That wasn't obviously the time, but people were still saying that trade of 2023 is is energy. So how do you take that and actually practically implemented? 

Gary: [00:13:55] Yeah. So you overlay that with your sort of charts and stuff as well. So obviously I'll look at the fundamentals, I look at earnings and weather forecast to sort of grow things like so I'd be comfortable with the sort of stocks that that I'm buying duplicate do try and stay with a lot of the latest in the market as well but really looking for price action to sort of you know to show me that, you know, the selling is done And, you know, so oftentimes if it's if the market's been heading lower, well, so, you know, selling might be aggressive early and then it eventually lightens up or you see sort of some sort of exhaustion of the sellers and stuff there. And then you start to see the market tick higher there. So whether you wait for a breakout, a moving average or, you know, a first high low or whatever it is, I like to sort of see a little swing higher taken out personally just shows me that the market's sort of just the market will keep going down. We'll just keep making lower highs, lower house, lower highs. As soon as we break a swing high, then maybe as a change of character in the trend. Yeah, see sort of go to white you know you psychology there you got your view but you got to let the price sort of tell you that that you're right as well because there's plenty of times that those sort of trends too they can always last a bit longer than you think. I mean, the cycle run costs go a lot higher than you think or. Yeah, stocks on the decline can go a lot nastier than you think as well. So you really need to sort of start to sort of see some signs of positivity. So when I was younger, I tried to, you know, pick the bottoms and that's a pretty nasty sort of game. It's not a risky game. You know, you end up sort of getting hurt too often. You're better off to sort of come in a little bit late and seeing just some positive price action there and then, you know, coming in there with mentum, because if you're coming in picking the lows as well, oftentimes it take time to build. So you actually sort of sitting in there using up a lot of the time and not really getting ahead too much, whereas it's sort of once you sort of got your first high low and then that thing starts to sort of get going, that's where the real moves are. So you almost have to wait for a bit of a base to be built and to go from there. So yeah. 

Bryce: [00:15:49] If you're wondering what Gary is talking about here, when it comes to technical analysis, first fundamental, a lot of what Alec and I talk about on the show is on the fundamental side. It's looking at the financial statements. It's talking about what the company is doing itself. It's considering, you know, things like the economy and factors that are related to the company and its and its function, whereas technical analysis is then leveraging more, I guess, the performance of the company from a price point of view. You look at things like volume, which you've mentioned a number of times there, Gary, how many people are actually buying and selling the stock chart patterns? And there's I guess there's many other things that go into it, but that's the key differences between technical and fundamental analysis, and that's probably a good segway, Gary, to the rules based approach of sort of technical analysis. And I imagine some of the investing that you do and habit formation, what are some of the investing habits that are most important to you? 

Gary: [00:16:53] Yeah, the habits is I mean, look, there's probably two times the habit says your trading habits and then there's probably a sort of health. Yes, Yes. Sort of mental habits as well. So, I mean, I trying to get up every day and go for a walk and I do sort of but every second day until a few breathing exercises to sort of, you know, sort of that are sort of healthy. And yeah, it's just sort of something I practice sort of every every couple of days. Yeah, that's sort of fine. That just sort of helps with your mental aspect for the day. 

Bryce: [00:17:19] Yeah. Nice. And so how do you stay, like disciplined when it comes to trading? Because when you're talking about technical analysis, there is there is a lot more action than perhaps a fundamental approach where you kind of take ages to build a thesis and do the research on the company. And then you're saying, you know, my my thesis might actually play out over five years here, so I'm not really going to be doing a lot of buying and selling of this stock as much as you would with entering and exiting with technical analysis. So how do you stay disciplined when it comes to your trading? 

Gary: [00:17:54] Probably the one thing that I do is I get comfortable with my worst case scenario. I look at all my positions I use sort of stops and targets on. So when I when I buy a position, by the end of the day, I'll I'll have a stop and I'll have a target in place. So that's the stock way to sort of go down below my sort of stop orbit. I've been taken out, I manage my risks, Iris scanning a certain manner of my capital on H position and I just follow certain rules that. Thank you. So we've got to take the other really take the emotion out of that trading there. So actually there's a really good term, I think it's called emotion free trading by Larry Levin, which was like a PDF might be about 100 pages long. It's a little bit of psychology, sort of cybernetics, subconscious sort of stuff in there. But that's free. It's online. It's actually a really good rate, actually. It sort of gets people sort of thinking. 

Bryce: [00:18:46] Emotion Free trading by Larry. 

Gary: [00:18:48] Larry Levine. 

Bryce: [00:18:49] Divine okay we'll include that in the show notes. 

Gary: [00:18:52] But yeah, it's always sort of occasionally sort. You know, it's funny, I say I've been pretty disciplined the last year here. I think I broke a rule last week. Okay. I just sort of took something to my stop because I sort of needed to be a bit of volatility. Yeah, I thought I was sort of still like it here. I was thinking like it whipped around a little bit here and I shouldn't have. I should have because I sort of scale into positions as well. So I usually sort of start with a position and then if it starts to go the right direction, I'll scale up. Yeah. And then also scale out as well. So don't, don't all get stopped out at the same point. Such a traditional left half my sort of stopping I usually move generally is to always at least leave half my stop in there. So it goes through a position because if you sort of if you're in a position that goes against you, you're going to be doing something there. So in the very least, you should have been cutting in half, particularly sort of built the position up, which I had done actually, I sort of built the position up, got it in a really great position. The news came out and then I went through. I thought, okay, I might stop there. Yeah. So Nina just had to sort of try that position now. Probably took a slightly bigger loss, possibly the biggest loss I've taken in the last 18 months. Oh, no, not excessive. Yeah. So it's probably only about 1% more than my then my other loss. But it's, um. I still broke my rules. 

Bryce: [00:20:02] Yeah. 

Gary: [00:20:02] Which I haven't done. I did not do that for the first six months of this financial year. 

Bryce: [00:20:06] They go one of the things that I often I used to, to run stock losses, but I would always find that I never put it, I never put the work in in the theory to actually understand what was the appropriate margin. And I would just kind of say, you know, I'm willing to lose no more than nine or 10% or whatever it might be without really considering the true volatility of that stock outperforms. And so you'd put in the stop and then four days later you go back and it's sold out and you decide that. So I don't use stocks because of that. Yeah. There's obviously a process that you've. 

Gary: [00:20:46] Got to look at. I mean, most traders look at the average true range, the stock. So to sort of see what sort of range the stock has being a technical person and yeah, I mean 20 years and again gives you a little bit more headway in terms of sort of what you're saying there. But there is percentage risk. I mean, for me, I look at a spreadsheet with long positions in it. So every day, you know, every day, every day or second day, I look at that spreadsheet, I can tell you what my worst case scenario is if I get stopped at all my positions. So tomorrow or today. So the market I big meltdown, I know exactly what percentage of my capital I'll be down for the day. So if I can live with that, I'm comfortable with that because obviously sometimes you get bit, you know, at the moment I'm sort of about three quarters or two strike was invested. I've been building up positions here the last few days, so I'm looking to be sort of fully invested here by the end of this week. Hopefully if all goes the way I think it will. But then I'm going to manage that risk as well. So I'm going to you know, I'm really sort of I know at the moment I've got about 3.5, 3.4% of my capital at risk at the moment because I've sort of been building up quite nicely. But yeah, so I forget how could it horribly wrong here? I'll be down 3.8% of my capital. 

Bryce: [00:21:49] I mean I'd take. 

Gary: [00:21:50] That kind of lever that. Yeah. Yeah. So what that means is it's a week from now that posture and everything, I've been fully in cash. I've sort of retained 96.8% of my capital position.

Bryce: [00:22:00] Some of the tech stocks that I'm in, I'm down 65% didn't put the stock loss in. I want to chat about your trading day and I like how you define yourself. You said at the top that, you know, you're probably in the middle of the spectrum between Warren Buffett and the algorithmic supercomputers, but have you tried different styles over the years and how are you continuing or are you continuing to refine your trading DNA? 

Gary: [00:22:29] Yeah, I've probably tried too many stars over the years, so I've done everything from hold positions for like two or three years to to trade intraday as well. One thing which is sort of trading and investing as well as you've got to find a style which suits your personality. Yeah. So I'd rather sort of do a little bit of sentiment analysis scan for sort of a stronger sort of stock sort of, you know, fundamentals and sort of revenue earnings growth and then start looking at the stocks that are showing relative strength, sort of the strongest sort of technically and then using the charts and then trying to enter and then give myself room and then stops and then, you know, it's the sitting where you make the big money. If you can get position, scale up and then you move, it's really interesting. 

Bryce: [00:23:13] But what's your average hold time for a stock these days, do you know? 

Gary: [00:23:16] I don't know exactly, but, uh, if I could hold a position for maybe sort of six, two, six half weeks, that's probably okay. That's probably a pretty decent hold I've held for longer than that. I could be stopped out within the same day sometimes as well. 

Bryce: [00:23:31] So you're looking for pretty strong price action in a relatively short period of time. 

Gary: [00:23:35] Yeah. Look, I'm trying to probably move more towards that sort of daily sort of set up now. So I sort of yeah, I've sort of been more of a weekly trader. They just because I have, you know, because I'm an adviser. So looking after clients as well. So you know, sort of not restless, sort of heaps of time. So I just sort of find if I do my weekly charts on the weekend, sort of see my set ups and I sort of do a scan. In every sort of way. Can I sort of do my top 300 every Sunday? So I sort of see opportunities there. So that sort of gives me a few ideas and an additional in the way comes out to a few daily scans on other lists that I have and that sort of generates me a few there. So sort of gone from being a bit more weekly aunt to more sort of more daily now. But, you know, ideally I'm really looking to, you know, if I can hold on, every position could be held for, say, six and a half to ten weeks and then are probably doing really well.

Bryce: [00:24:19] Well in the House. So you mentioned this Sunday, you're looking at your top 300 opportunities, I guess, or scanning for a list of the top 300. What are the like moments during the week? Are those sort of locked in? You know, Tuesday I'm going to do this or every day I do this. What are some of those? K. 

Gary: [00:24:40] Yeah. So yeah so really built. I've written a report every week for the last probably 15 years. So that in itself is a bit tiresome because it's sort of like every Sunday I got to go full scan, I got to sort through my charts and come up with the best sort of ten out of the 300. Write about them, send them out to the clients there, but keep you disciplined so you do the work and it creates opportunities there. And then I have my I've credited sort of my shorter term lists. I've sort of got a sort of scan for revenue, profit growth, and I'm just going to scan for revenue growth and I'm going to scan for new IPO because I sort of the one thing we know about, you know, when we've gone through a bear market, yesterday's leaders aren't going to be the the new leaders is going to be so. So a lot of that's a lot of stocks that have sort of flooded in the last two or three years. They should be coming through should be some new leadership groups and new stocks coming through there. So I'm going to be looking through. So I've got a 21 or 22 IPO list. Yeah, well, so I just have all sorts of lists and I just sort of do most 300 on Sunday and I just do the other scans sort of during the week. Just look through them. I'm just so good at it. I can literally live doing this for a long time now I can, I can tab through 300 charts pretty quickly. Okay. So yeah, I know exactly what I'm looking for.

Bryce: [00:25:57] Yeah. Yeah. What period of time I mean, I'm getting into the weeds here, but what period of time do you have on your chart? Like, is it over three months? Is it over a year, Is it daily that you'll. Yeah. Like when you're flicking through what are you, what's your time period. 

Gary: [00:26:13] Yeah. So 300. I'll probably look at the week, I look at the weekly and I probably look at no further than sort of five years. Otherwise I sort of get farther. Yet when you've been watching these things for 20 years, the 300 is sort of you almost sort of know what they did. Yeah. In the previous five I'm focusing on 51, so a little bit more history than some of the others out there. So probably now a bit too much of what their background is, but still know the cycles, know the moves and and then sort of the other sort of charts. I'm looking mainly at dailies, so from the shorter term. So everything that's sort of momentum based, I'm really looking at a daily chart. I will look at the, you know, if I go through my, you know, look at the first 150 of the top revenue line and then, you know, top profit growth companies and I get it, say there's five or ten in there, write down, then I'll go and look at the weeklies on those. I won't look at the those and weeklies on all of them, only the ones that look interesting and see all of that sort of matching up to what I'm seeing on the daily, but the daily sort of way predominantly. Yeah. And then if I'm trading those, I might drill into the half hourly to in terms of setting up position. Okay. Trying to maximise my entry. 

Bryce: [00:27:18] Yeah. And I love that in technical analysis, chart patterns, the names, heads and shoulders and flying saucepans and all sorts of different things. Is that what you're looking for? Chart pattern. 

Gary: [00:27:27] Yeah, I am, yeah. So I have in recent years I a long time ago I used to have sort of ten patents, so I read Thomas Borkowski write a book called the Encyclopaedia of Chart Patterns. I think I've got that, which was a five year study of the S&P 500 and all the chart patterns basically sort of wrote a chapter on every pattern listed, all the winners, losers. So it's just a statistical representation of every pattern there. And so I read that book many years ago, went through and decided on what I thought were the best ten patents in terms of risk reward profile, average move, things like that. Just sort of what suited my sort of personality and then worked on those. And then in recent years I've been trying to scale that back because the thing about the best traders is they somehow got them written. I like my desk. My, my, my wall in front of me is his to settle on a style, follow your rules and become its master. And that's really about really having a playbook which is narrower and narrower and narrower. So the number of patents you're looking at, the best trader on the planet trades one patent only. 

Bryce: [00:28:31] Oh, really? Yeah, that's it. That's just looking for one pattern. 

Gary: [00:28:35] That's the One. 

Bryce: [00:28:36] In that line if that pattern out.

Gary: [00:28:38] Does not. Trader Who's that as Mark Minervini. 

Bryce: [00:28:41] I was just going to say I the only book that I've read that is related to technical analysis is trade, like a stock market wizard by Mark Minervini. 

Gary: [00:28:50] I wish I read that one first. I read that one. I didn't pick that book up up until about. Three or four years ago. Yeah, right. Yeah. I wish I picked it up first. Yeah. 

Bryce: [00:28:58] So, Gary, just to close out, you mentioned before breathing techniques and all those sorts of things, but one thing that we don't often consider is the emotions and of post-trade and like how you switch off, de-stress, remove yourself from the, the day to day nature of of being in markets. So how, how do you do that and and what is your process of of getting away from the markets. 

Gary: [00:29:24] If my personal just just takes a day Saturday sort of off really I'm going to look at the market in the morning but I pretty much try not to look at anything market hour in time for the whole day. I usually try and do some exercises. I play football in the in the winter season and sometimes summer as well. Just try and take a 24 hour window off there because I know sort of Sunday afternoon, I'm usually sort of back at it. So. So yeah. 

Bryce: [00:29:47] And is your is your day during the week just when markets are open.

Gary: [00:29:52] Yeah. Because I've sort of gone back to I'm used to working in the city, probably 90% and now I'm sort of been working from home predominantly. I sort of got myself an extra hour in the morning and night and I thought to be sort of using more of that for myself. But I, apart from doing it my size in the morning, probably analysing the market a bit, doing more work in the afternoon, afternoon now. So I'd watch, you know, like Trader Lion is a really good resource for in the US. Richard Moglan a ceremony free each individual best traders on the planet. You know they even go through their trades so there's some really interesting stuff there. So often I'll go through there when I'm scrolling through Twitter. I'm pretty active on Twitter, just looking through a look at what, you know, who's got interviewed that way, you know, and just listen to that, you know? So I'm always just trying even I'm 51. I'm still trying to learn, try and get better. So I just try and learn something from someone else. But those resources weren't available when I was learning. So it's amazing what is out there for you now. So yeah, yeah. 

Bryce: [00:30:47] Well, Gary thoroughly enjoyed the conversation today. I've learnt a lot. As I said at the top, I don't really use any technical analysis in my investing, but if I was to bring in something, do you have a hot tip for him? 

Gary: [00:31:02] My hot tip would be just to bring the 50 day moving average in there. Okay. And I William O'Neil, who's sort of how to make money in stocks that are probably the the founding father of momentum stocks and trading those sort of what they call the growth or monster stocks there. He used the 50 day moving average. You know, a lot of a lot of good traders that I and I sort of suggest that nothing good happens under the 50 day moving average. So if I were sort of trading some of these sort of growth sort of stocks and you often say that I can run for a year without breaking the 50 day moving average, So you can be sort of in there for a long time there. Yeah, But usually some of the bigger declines when they really get hammered, once I break the 50, they can, you know, really get going on the downside. So, you know, it's like I reckon if you investigated the 50 day moving average and sacrificed the stocks that I, I like it. I mean if I close them out when I break the 50 and then I reopen them again after they bought the 50 day, how would I have fared just sort of sitting through them. 

Bryce: [00:31:57] Well I might just do some analysis on my current portfolio and see where they all sit relative to the, to the 50 day moving average. That's pretty interesting. So if you are interested in more information on trading psychology, I think Gary has made it very clear that, you know, rules based approach is important. But psychology plays such a massive part in trading and investing. It has collected a wealth of information, including interviews with experts in the fields, articles, podcasts and e-books all brought together in a dedicated Master Your Trading Mind hub. So if you are interested, search master your trading mind or head to master your trading mind Hub on IG Ecom to find out more. Trading involves risk to your capital issued by IG Australia. ABN 90 309658541084515106. But Gary, I've learnt so much. I think one of my biggest takeaways, other than the 50 day moving average, is the concept of if you can do the opposite to how you feel, then it'd be interesting to see how you go. You might go right in the market, something that I'll try and remember when I'm feeling greedy or feeling scared. So appreciate your time. I learn a lot. I'm sure the Equity Mates community did as well. Thank you very much.

Gary: [00:33:11] My pleasure. Thanks for having us.