Have you ever wondered why there are so many Thai restaurants?

Sascha: [00:00:02] From Equity Mates Media. This is The Dive. I'm your host, Sascha Kelly. It's Friday night. You've had a long week at work and you decided to treat yourself to some take away. Have you ever stopped to think that no matter where you are in the world, there's always a plethora of Thai restaurants to choose from? Just think about it. It's true. Wherever you are in the world, you'll find them. Now, the obvious answer is Thai food, it's just great. There is no denying that. But actually, there's a little bit more to it. For the past 20 years, Thailand's government has been running a global Thai programme with the goal of expanding the number of Thai restaurants around the world. 

Audio Clip: [00:00:44] The explosion of Thai restaurants is paid for by the Thai government. 

Sascha: [00:00:49] It's Friday, the 1st of December. And today I want to know why the Thai government wants me to have a local Thai restaurant? And are other governments doing the same thing? To talk about this today, I'm joined by my colleague and the co-founder of Equity Mates. It's Alec Renehan. Alec, welcome to The Dive. 

Alec: [00:01:08] Hi, Sascha. Good to be here. I'm excited for this one. It's been on our list for a long time. I keep pitching it and people keep telling me it's a conspiracy theory. It's not a conspiracy theory. This is a real Thai government programme. So I'm excited that we got it off of the board and into the podcast today. 

Sascha: [00:01:25] Well, I have two things that I'm predicting, and that is that I'm going to be hungry at the end of this episode and then I'm going to feel like Thai food at the end of this episode. 

Alec: [00:01:35] What's your order? 

Sascha: [00:01:37] I'm pretty basic. It's always a pad Thai. 

Alec: [00:01:40] Fair enough. Fair enough. 

Sascha: [00:01:41] So let's get into it. Tell me about this global Thai programme. 

Alec: [00:01:45] Well, the Thai government stumbled on a big realisation in the early 2000. People really like Thai food. In 2002, there were about five and a half thousand Thai restaurants globally, and the Thai government decided to launch a formal programme, the global Thai programme, to boost the number of restaurants around the world. By 2011, there were more than 10,000 Thai restaurants globally. By 2018, there were more than 15,000 Thai restaurants globally. And you might be wondering why. Well, the government wants to use the popularity of these restaurants to deepen ties with other countries, improve its image in other countries, make us aware of Thailand, and make us really want to go to Thailand to eat more food. 

Sascha: [00:02:29] I dare say, is it like a simplistic marketing scheme that basically utilises the phrase the way to my heart is through my stomach? 

Alec: [00:02:38] Yeah, it's country level marketing and yes, it works, especially where we are here in Australia. Sydney Uni did a study in 2014 and they looked at the 2922 restaurants in Greater Sydney listed in the Australian Restaurant Directory. Do you want to guess how many of them were Thai? 

Sascha: [00:02:58] Oh, a fair chunk. So let's say 20%. 

Alec: [00:03:01] Pretty close, 25%, nearly a quarter. 678 of the restaurants were Thai restaurants. That just shows how successful this programme has been in the US. 

Audio Clip: [00:03:12] There's roughly one Mexican restaurant for every 650 Mexican Americans. But with Thai restaurants, there's one for every 55 or so Thai American. 

Alec: [00:03:21] And look, there were a few iterations of this programme originally. The idea was to create one chain of global Thai restaurants. They spoke of a McDonalds of Thai food, but that never quite eventuated. We don't have one global Thai chain. Instead, we have thousands of smaller Thai restaurants. But for many of them, supported by the Thai government. 

Sascha: [00:03:43] I mean, that kind of adds to what feels like a conspiracy theory, doesn't it, Alec? Because it's not this en masse thing. It is always just like smaller restaurants operating independently. 

Audio Clip: [00:03:55] Since 2002, the government has trained Thai chefs giving out loans to restaurateurs who want to go abroad, study the preferences of foreigners, and has even come up with three prototypes of Thai restaurants that would do well overseas. 

Sascha: [00:04:08] And how exactly is the government supporting these restaurants to just keep popping up all around the world? 

Alec: [00:04:14] So the Thai Ministry of Commerce offers potential restaurant tours, three different, quote, master restaurant types. They range from cheap and cheerful fast food options, a mid-range option, and then an elegant fancy Thai white tablecloth option. And these potential restaurant owners can choose the design, the menu. They even get help with things like the name. The Thai government wants you to succeed. But that's not all. It doesn't stop with advice to Thai banks offering loans of up to 3 million U.S. dollars to Thai nationals wanting to open a restaurant abroad. So that helps them with setup costs, building costs, and fitting out the equipment. And then once. You open to support doesn't stop the tide. Diplomats around the world have roles to support Thai restaurants. They help them with logistics and getting food from Thailand and, you know, equipment where they need it. They help with restaurants, strategy, marketing, and growing it. And they also play a role in quality control where they go to the restaurants and make sure they're good. There's even a book published by the Thai Public Health Ministry called, quote, a manual for Thai chefs going abroad, which gives information about recruitment, training and even the tastes of foreigners. 

Sascha: [00:05:37] I like this is incredible. My dad worked in hospitality, so I know about the expense of running restaurants. So it sounds like they have all the bases covered there in terms of the support and the investment and infrastructure. And it's significant. And I think what this gets me thinking is that most of this money is leaving Thailand and not directly coming back, which is very unusual for a government to do. You've mentioned it's a subtle way of deepening ties with other countries, a form of soft marketing. Can you explain a little bit further why they're doing this? 

Audio Clip: [00:06:11] It's called gastro diplomacy. That means using food to extend a country's cultural influence. 

Alec: [00:06:17] Yes. So I think Thailand would probably say there is money coming back into the country. They would say that by enticing us with Thai food in our home countries, it makes us more likely to consider Thailand as a travel destination. It also makes us more likely to potentially buy Thai cooking products and ingredients. So there may be an economic return there. Pretty hard to model and we certainly haven't come across any modelling researching this episode. What it really is is that soft power. It is improving your cultural cachet, improving your country's standing in the minds of those other ADAS from around the world. Because, as you said, the way to someone's heart is through their stomach. The way to good diplomatic relations is through the stomach as well, I guess.

Sascha: [00:07:04] I don't think that's going to be on a T-shirt slogan any time soon if it doesn't quite roll off the tongue. But Thailand isn't alone. We've now seen dozens of other countries follow their lead, including, surprisingly, North Korea. I like it. Let's take a quick break. Welcome back to The Dive. I'm your host, Sascha Kelly. We are talking about the power of food and how it makes me feel better about the nationalities of where you're eating it. I'm talking about this as my colleague Alec Ren had today before we get back into it, but a quick favour to ask. Make sure that you hit subscribe, follow the like button. Whatever podcast player you use, hit that button. So you make sure that our new episodes are always there in your player whenever they drop. But Alec, let's get back to what I've got to say, this is a favourite topic for me today. Thai restaurants, everywhere. I went to Thailand for the first time in 2015 and I never wanted to go before, never been keen to experience it, but I had definitely been to a lot of Thai restaurants and had a huge list of the food that I was going to try. So I think this scheme is ingenious, but they are the only country that's doing this. Can you give me a bit of a world tour of some of the other nations that have invested in this culinary diplomacy? 

Alec: [00:08:27] Yes. So after Thailand launched their programme in 2002 and had some initial early success, it's clear that a number of their Asian neighbours sat up and took notice. South Korea launched their own programme in 2009, the Korean Cuisine to the World Campaign, affectionately known as Kimchi Diplomacy. 

Audio Clip: [00:08:46] There's even an entire government sponsored English K-Pop album, just about food. 

Alec: [00:08:51] Its official goals included quadrupling the number of Korean restaurants abroad and lifting Korean food into the, quote, top five ranking of world cuisines. The government invested over $110 million to push their cuisine globally, which included grants and scholarships for South Koreans to travel and attend culinary school. There's not a lot of information out there on where the programme is at now, but I've got to say anecdotally I have seen more South Korean restaurants, especially Korean fried chicken restaurants or chicken and beer restaurants pop up. Sascha, have you seen any? 

Sascha: [00:09:28] Korean fried chicken? As soon as you said that it made my mouth water, I'm like, That's what I'm going to have today. I'm so hungry. 

Alec: [00:09:34] Well, I guess that is the programme working. So take Thailand to South Korea. They're not alone. The next cab off the rank was Taiwan. They launched a similar programme in 2010. The island nation of Taiwan launched a more than 25 million U.S. dollar programme to promote foods and drinks like bubble tea and oyster omelettes abroad. In an effort both to boost diplomatic ties and try to distinguish itself in the minds of foreigners from the People's Republic next door. More recently, other Asian neighbours have picked up the mantle. Last year, Indonesia launched Indonesia to spice up the world. Their objective is to boost the export value of Indonesian spices and herbs to 2 billion U.S. dollars a year and to increase the presence of Indonesian restaurants abroad. I believe that their target is 4000 by 2024. 

Sascha: [00:10:26] That's also incredibly clever because food also has trends. If you think about Ottolenghi after the spices that he uses, I hadn't heard of it ten years ago and they are just in every millennial's cupboard now. 

Alec: [00:10:39] Yeah. Yeah. Well I feel like Indonesian food will do well maybe going Nazi goring you can say it taking off but Sascha you mentioned North Korea in your out to the break and yes, even the North Korean government has jumped on this trend. It funds an international chain of more than 100 restaurants called Pyongyang. Most of them are in China, some in South East Asia. Its very first western outpost opened in Amsterdam in 2012. Sascha, I'm sure it doesn't surprise you to hear that that restaurant closed later in 2012, and we haven't seen any more Pyongyang restaurants opening in Western countries. There was a rumour about one being opened in Scotland in 2014, although it never came to be. 

Sascha: [00:11:27] Well, if you're living somewhere where you've seen one of these restaurants, then do let us know some great examples there, Alec, if you want to look them up yourself, plenty of other cases we've got Singapore, Malaysia, Lebanon, Peru, the US, Cambodia, Japan, Scandinavia and Australia. All of these places have some form of culinary diplomacy strategy in place. 

Alec: [00:11:50] But Sascha, we should say there's a pretty wide range of strategies here. It's not like all of those governments are following the Thailand strategy of trying to fund restaurants around the world. Take Peru, for example, a country you mentioned there. Their culinary diplomacy programme is really focussed on having their cuisine listed in the UNESCO's World Heritage List of intangible items. So a little bit different to funding restaurants all around the world. 

Sascha: [00:12:19] Isn't there just a risk that these restaurants aren't very good? How? Managing the standard of this food. 

Alec: [00:12:25] Yeah. You're not exactly. You don't want to go to Thailand for a holiday if you have a terrible experience eating at a Thai restaurant. 

Sascha: [00:12:32] So, yeah. If you've got food poisoning. 

Alec: [00:12:34] Yeah, yeah, you're right. But as I said, the Thai diplomats have a role to play once these restaurants are opened. And part of that is that they go to the restaurants around the world, whatever country they're stationed in, and they try the food and they make sure it meets an acceptable quality. And there is actually an award that is given. The Thai Ministry of Commerce has an award called Thai Select, and it is given to restaurants that guarantee the authentic Thai taste. So representatives from the Thai government, normally diplomats, will go to these restaurants. They will do surprise inspections. They will be secret eaters, secret shoppers at these restaurants, and they will award the Thai Select Award to those restaurants that meet the standard. 

Audio Clip: [00:13:21] And one day a strange call came in from a Thai. 

Sascha: [00:13:24] It was easy, and I was awarded by the Thai Ministry of Commerce because my restaurant is authentic. I actually first thought it was a scam. 

Alec: [00:13:36] According to the Thai Select website, over 1300 Thai restaurants around the world have been awarded one of these certificates by the Thai Ministry of Commerce. 

Sascha: [00:13:45] I'd like you know, I'm going to ask, can I go on that website and find out when my local awardee is near me? 

Alec: [00:13:52] You can go to Thai select com, which is the website that lists all of the restaurants that have been awarded this. Now, Sascha, I know you're in Victoria here in Australia, I've just gone on the website. It looks like there's five Thai restaurants or four Thai restaurants in Victoria that have been awarded this Thai select ranking. So you can jump on, have a look and figure out if they're in your ubereats catchment zone. 

Sascha: [00:14:20] Awesome. And we're going to put that link in the show notes because I know it's likely you might be on the commute home and feeling just as hungry as we are. So we're putting that out there for you. So, Alec, do you think culinary diplomacy actually works? 

Audio Clip: [00:14:35] Helping Thai food go mainstream comes with huge economic benefits too. 

Alec: [00:14:39] People, you know, try it more, visit Thailand more and the tourism increases because of. 

Audio Clip: [00:14:44] It. Today, Thailand is the most visited country in Southeast Asia. 

Alec: [00:14:48] Well, it's a good question. So I think there's two ways to approach it from a pure numbers perspective. From an economic perspective, it's probably hard to quantify it. You know, we've seen a number of Thai restaurants grow massively over the past two decades, and we've seen the number of tourists to Thailand grow massively over the last two decades. Hard to know if there's causation here or it's just correlation. But the second way to approach it is just really personally and anecdotally. And when I think about travelling to Asia or when I think about travelling somewhere where there's good food, Thailand definitely is front of mind for me over many of its neighbouring countries, which are just as beautiful and just as fun to travel to. So I think that the fact that there's Thai restaurants everywhere keeps Thailand front of mind, I'm going to say it works. And that leads me to an idea that I've had for a while since I've become fascinated with this topic. I think the Australian Government needs to embrace this idea fully and we need to export Australian cafe culture to the world. No one does breakfast better than Australia. And when you say Australian cafes overseas, they go like New York. There's some that are doing well. But I was in Atlanta, in Georgia, in the south of the US and there was an Australian cafe, their line out the door they couldn't get enough of smashed AVO and good coffee Australia needs to be funding Australian cafes wherever people eat breakfast. That is what I'm calling for. 

Sascha: [00:16:22] A good old fashioned Alec Grant to close out a Friday episode.

Alec: [00:16:26] It's just smashed AVO for everyone. Albo, I hope you're listening.

Sascha: [00:16:31] Well, I think from memory it's Bluestone and Little Collins in New York are the two big Australian cafes and there's definitely one in seven dials in Covent Garden in London that also goes off. I used to go there for a proper, proper flat wine. So if you're overseas, if you're sipping on your flat wire, listening to the access of home, take a picture and tag the dive in it. Let's see if we can get this Australian culinary diplomacy for breakfast to the world. If you've enjoyed this episode, then please tell a friend about it. It really is the best way for our podcast to go. You've just joined us. Welcome. Go check out our massive back catalogue of stories. You can follow us on Instagram, we're @thedivebusinessnews. Contact us by email at thedive@equitymates.com And subscribe. So wherever you're listening, you always get episodes as soon as they land. Thanks, Alec for joining me too. 

Alec: [00:17:23] Thanks, Sascha. 

Sascha: [00:17:24] Until next time.