Digging into the Global Natural Resources Sector with Terra Capital 


Candice: [00:00:12] Hello and welcome to Talk Money to me. Thanks for tuning in. I'm Candice Bourke. 

Felicity: [00:00:16] And I'm Felicity Thomas. Now we've got two very exciting guests on the show today from Terra Capital. We've got Jeremy Bond, the chief investment officer, and Matthew Langsford, the portfolio manager. Now, Terra Capital is a leading specialist investment manager in the global natural resources sector. They're renowned for delivering exceptional performance through their disciplined management approach and extensive industry expertise. They really also do put their money where their mouth is, as Jeremy is the largest investor in each of their funds. 

Candice: [00:00:46] Which is so good to hear. One thing that we definitely look out for when we look at our fund managers for our clients portfolios. Jeremy would be so happy with his performance, right? Because the Natural Resource Fund since 2010 has had an annual return of 15% and on a cumulative basis 470.9%, yes, you heard that right, over 400%. It's really impressive. As you'll hear from the chat with the guys today, we're going to be talking a lot about different companies that have caught their eye from future facing commodities, traditional resource plays. So we're really excited to bring this episode to you. Now, before we jump into it, just a quick reminder, as always, our chat today is not considered personal advice, even though we are registered financial advisors at Shaw and Partners. Please note the podcast and the content discussed does not constitute as financial advice, nor is it a financial product. Everything we're chatting about today is based on the facts known at the time, which is the 14th of February 2023. Happy Valentine's Day. 

Felicity: [00:01:46] So welcome Jeremy Bond and Martine Langsford to talk money to me. 

Speaker 2: [00:01:50] Thanks very much for having us. 

Felicity: [00:01:51] Now, we'd love to start our conversation by understanding who is behind terror capital and what funds do you guys manage. 

Jeremy: [00:01:59] So I set up the business in mid 2010. So we've had the fund, the main fund, the Global Natural Resource Fund, running for almost 13 years. So I think we're one of the longest running resource funds in Australia. Now that is the original fund of the main fund and that fund is global naturally to fund. So we invest across commodities and across jurisdictions and more recently we set up a green metals fund as well, which which does the same sort of thing, but that doesn't invest in fossil fuels and gold and a couple of other commodities. It's equities only we long only and and we're for wholesale investors on.

Felicity: [00:02:38] Okay, so wholesale investors only. I'm really excited to hear more about your green metals fund. That sounds really interesting. 

Jeremy: [00:02:44] Absolutely so we set that fund up 2020. You know, we understand that there obviously are some investors who don't want to invest in particular commodities, but also who want exposure to what are going to be and are the forward facing commodities. And that will be the real beneficiaries of the decarbonisation movement that we think is going to be a really strong thematic for the next couple of decades.

Candice: [00:03:09] Really glad you've said that, because what we often talk about here on Talk to Me is the push, you know, for future-facing commodities, alternative renewable energy solutions and obviously the whole push for electrification and decarbonisation. So clearly you like the sector and you like the, you know, growing green sector as well. So can you tell us just taking a step back, because there's a lot of chat in the market, what is going on with the market and as all different sectors as we know. So how is the current resource sector looking to you in terms of the cycle echoing it, just the start or what's the state of play look? 

Jeremy: [00:03:45] So it's our view that we're obviously very early in the cycle. Commodity cycles tend to be long, both boom and bust cycles. They tend to be at least a decade in duration and at its base level. That's really because it takes about a decade to build a mine. So we had a deep bear market from 2010 to 2020, a part of that as a bear market. There was obviously no capital expenditure and no capital available to build out supply. So we come into 2020 with with virtually every commodity severely supply constrained and that really is the basis for the next bull market. We think that the fundamental basis is the lack of supply and that is across virtually every commodity. So where are we in the cycle? Well, there hasn't been any real supply brought on since 2020. Therefore, we think we're incredibly early. If you look at the majors, BHP, Rio and Glencore and others, they're still very much in capital return mode. You know, most of their earnings go back to shareholders by way of buybacks or dividends. There's not a lot of appetite on development. The capital markets are only just opened. So for most commodities, you know. The cupboards are still pretty bare. So to bring on supply, a lot of these commodities is going to take a long time. So until that happens, I think we're in the early innings. Just to add to that, if we've already had relatively strong commodity prices in a number of commodities since the end of 2020, and yet if you if you look at copper, for example, we've had already what you would normally consider to be incentive pricing for copper producers to bring on more copper supply, but because they've been not spending as much on developing new parts of the mine of their existing mines or developing new mines, for the past ten years, they haven't been able to. And so, you know, even with those high prices, there was no incremental supply brought on since late 2020. 

Felicity: [00:05:53] Yeah, that's really interesting because it's great that you're saying that because we actually also believe we're probably at the beginning of the cycle and really saying the same thing we've said many times on our show that it's going to be near impossible to meet Paris 2030 decarbonisation goals because there is not enough supply, there are not enough mines in production. It's that comes back to that. And you know, the economic one on one supply and demand. Now here in Australia, as we know, investors love resources and given our geographical position in the APAC region, we obviously are quite reliant on China and China's policies. So do you see the recent China reopening a good thing for Australian resources and doing future business with China? I guess? What are your thoughts there?

Jeremy: [00:06:40] Yeah, look, I think the China reopening story is obviously is a big one for the commodity markets. If we look if we look back at 2022, you know, it was actually proved to be a sort of a tough year for commodities, even though we're in a structural bull market. And really the major headwinds were with the lockdowns in China and I guess the high US dollar. So if you look at this year, you know, China's reopening is obviously going to be a big boon for almost every commodity. I mean, they still are the biggest consumer of every commodity and the iron ore, copper, that plus 50% consumer. So opening up is clearly going to make a difference from a demand side. You've seen the Chinese money supply starting to go up. You know, this does tend to lead to commodity demand, but with a couple of months lag. So we would start to see that push through the end of March, early April, there will be some stimulus. I don't think it's certainly not going to be anything like 2008, but you need a lot given how tight the markets are. And so our view is, yes, you're going to get a spike in consumption like you got in every other country as they opened up. Plus, there will be some fiscal support. We've seen some policies around property already come through and there'll be likely some infrastructure spend as well. So all in all, it's probably the biggest story, I guess, for the commodity market this year. 

Felicity: [00:08:09] Do you think that obviously the majors are actually paying out really large dividends? Do you think that probably needs to change in order to, you know, reinvest into the business to ensure that these 20, 30 decarbonisation goals are met? I mean, that's something that I kind of want to explore. What do you think's going to happen there? 

Jeremy: [00:08:28] Yeah, look, I don't think it's going to change in the near term. I think I think a lot of the majors maybe are still a bit scarred from the last boom where there was some misallocation of capital across the board. You now have a shareholder base who, you know, has become quite accustomed to the capital management that those companies have in place. It's going to it's hard to then turn that ship around. So to that question, it definitely exacerbates the supply issues. And it's definitely part of the thesis as to why we think commodity prices will need to be higher and will remain higher because there isn't going to be those large capital expenditure programs from these companies in the near term. Yes, certainly it appears at the moment the idea to keep their pipelines intact is to make some M&A acquisitions and Oz Minerals being the most recent. I guess we will probably see that continuing. But, you know, I think we're certainly at least a few years away from any discernable change in capital management. So. 

Felicity: [00:09:32] Okay, That's good to know For anyone who's investing for the dividend. Back on the China reopening, is there any particular company in your fund that you think will really benefit from this? 

Jeremy: [00:09:43] I mean, the biggest beneficiaries, probably from a commodity perspective on China reopening are probably iron ore, copper and maybe meat, coal. In terms of mikkeller, I think that's one of I guess that the the thawing relationship between China and Australia probably comes into play. You know, the. They are starting to buy Australian biological coal again, which they hadn't done for a while. It doesn't really affect on or from that perspective because they've always sort of had to keep buying it anyway. But probably iron ore and copper are probably the two most immediate beneficiaries from a commodity perspective. I mean, just a quick aside, I think there's quite we we have a focus on assets in federal jurisdictions, and I do think there's going to be a strategic premium put on some of those assets if if they aren't tied to China. China. So, you know, the US is going to want to keep funding or help fund some of these assets that aren't related to China. And so I think there is there is certainly from our side, you want to find, you know, assets that are unencumbered by by Chinese off tax or Chinese funding. And some of the funding package is now available through the Inflation Reduction Act. And that's going to be the the equivalent in Europe soon, are going to be really good funding packages. 

Candice: [00:11:01] I'd love to hear your thoughts on you. Sort of touched on a but maybe more if we could elaborate the short term issues that copper might be facing. And then why would an investor think about it for the long duration in their portfolio? 

Jeremy: [00:11:14] Yeah, good question. So I mean, we're super bullish copper on on pretty much every timeframe. I guess I'd caveat that we're saying them very, very, very short and in the very, very near term. I do think probably that the copper price and maybe some of the copper equities may have run a little hard into the China reopening story and probably got ahead of the actual fundamental demand. But that's in a very, very short term on every other basis, that commodity is severely supply constrained. So, you know, I think if you look at it. Wood Mackenzie, I think they have the copper market going into deficit this year, early next year. I think most banks have it by next year to the point by 2030 where you're severely in a severe deficit that you'd need, but it's close to 70 or 80, 70 to 100 new mines to come online. And then you look at how easy that will be. And, you know, it's you sort of understand the dynamics of that market. You know, it's virtually impossible. There hasn't been those discoveries or there isn't that pipeline of projects that, you know, even in even where we are now, you know, that two of the biggest or the two biggest copper copper mines in the world continue to have problems, continued problems. The biggest producer of copper in the world, Chile, continues to see its production go down quarter on quarter. So when we are making these these large copper discoveries, they're not in easy jurisdictions, you know, in South America or Mongolia or, you know, places where it's it's not super easy to find to start to build these mines. So yet, you know, you're not seeing those discoveries in WA anymore or in Canada or other places like that. They're in challenging jurisdictions. So that copper market is no matter which way you look at it, is is is severely supply constrained. I think just to add to that, copper is a bit different. While it is a future facing commodity, it is a commodity that miners have been searching for for the past 150 years. You know, so all the big hydro deposits that are close to surface and near infrastructure, you know, they're long gone. And so it's going to more far flung jurisdictions to find those which which is inevitably more difficult or, you know, maybe they're in more environmentally sensitive areas. So the permitting process takes longer. And it just it just adds to the tightness in the market and how long it will be until a new supply comes. Just also with China effectively in a recession for two years being locked down in various stages of lockdown over 2021 and 2022. You know, key indicator of how tight that copper market was was the fact that the copper price remained relatively robust, even with the largest consumer of copper globally in effect being locked down. 

Candice: [00:14:06] Yeah, And so we've definitely touched on the supply issue. I just want to quickly wrap it up here on the demand side, because we know, you know, obviously advisors in the industry, we know it's a super important commodity for the future of EV decarbonisation and clean energy technologies. But from a for the layman potential commodity listener, just walk us through the demand that you see now and increasing over the next five, ten years. And I guess what would be your top idea that you can disclose in copper? 

Jeremy: [00:14:35] So copper obviously is used in every facet of electrification. I guess that it is the conduit for electricity. So name any renewable or maybe or anything and it's going to include copper in it. So I think from that point of view it's sort of relatively obviously can't electrify society without the copper to do that and there isn't really substitutes that there is around the edges but, but. It's not something that is going to be substituted in any meaningful way in terms of how we play that within the fund. I mean, typically the way we run our fund exposure, we we we're all cap in terms of the market caps we look at. So we typically will own one or two producers, one or two developers and maybe a couple of exploration companies. I must admit most of our exposure is expressed in North America rather than Australia. I mean, Australia, if there's not the heap of options, and particularly with those minerals going as they are less now. So, you know, I don't I think that probably talks to how the copper supply story as well is that there's not many places to invest in. And so some of the bigger companies and and maybe some of the better producers are maybe listed in Canada or North America and we tend to own those. 

Felicity: [00:15:57] What is, I guess, one of your top ideas then in the copper space.

Jeremy: [00:16:01] In terms of probably our favourite copper name is actually a developer. It's a company called Foran Mining, it's listed in Canada, the developing a Polymetallic deposit in Saskatchewan. What we like about this, this company is, is it? It's got a great management team. So Dennis and the executive chairman was formed from a Glencore, took over took control of the company he's he's drilled it out the assets got much bigger than it was before that found it a significant discovery next door to the original asset that when he took control of the company, but also he's committed to building the mine to be carbon neutral. So, you know, the power comes from hydro. The fleet is electric. You know, this energy efficient cladding on the buildings. And this is super important for a couple of reasons. Firstly, his operating costs will come down because the power is cheap and in Canada there's a carbon tax. So what kind of carbon tax? Second of all, and this has really come to the fore, I guess last year was that his funding options have been significantly widened by being carbon neutral. So, you know, he raised $500 million of commitments, $5 million last year in what was a pretty tough, tough market, including, you know, $200 million from the Ontario teachers pension plan that doubled the share price. So that was equity at double the price. He got $100 from Prime Watson's Fairfax fund earlier in the year and again at a premium and and he's received some debt from Sprott. So you know I think that if we look at development companies that's sort of the poster child of how these things should look. This permitting is flowing through at a really good rate because you know, the governments are supportive of, of, of how they're building that mine out. And so, you know, you can't, you can't build an existing mine, can't be carbon neutral, but, you know, certainly you can't retrofit it might be carbon neutral, but certainly you can build it out to be carbon neutral. And so that's probably why we like it for a bunch of different reasons thought. 

Felicity: [00:18:03] Okay, great. So we've got our first investable idea here. So what's the code for that stock. 

Jeremy: [00:18:10] F-O-M. 

Felicity: [00:18:10] F-O-M. All right, awesome. Now what's really interesting, right, is copper doesn't have as much love and as much hype like lithium does. That's quite interesting. Do you have any comments on that and why you think that is? [00:18:22][11.8]

Jeremy: [00:18:23] It sounds like we have just less ways to play it. Let's just if you can. So you look at the Australian Australia market, you know, there's two or three producers, a couple of developers and not even that many exploration companies. And yet you look at lithium and even though you know that commodity is only really in demand for I guess the last call it five, six, seven years, your options to invest quite a bit larger And then there's hundreds of juniors. It hits the retail lithium sort of hits the retailers like us a little bit better than copper. But I think just the option, the fact that there's so many options makes it more appealing as well. Added to that, I guess there has been a really strong spike in the lithium price over the past 18 months. So, you know, that really draws people attention to the sector. And even though, I mean, copper recently nearly touched all time highs it and in the back end of 2020, early 2021, you know there was there was a bit of a movement in copper I think in the next year, two years, three years, we do see record prices in copper again and that will come back around. So, you know, I think there's potentially the option now for people to be looking at that sector, which is a little out of favour, which is when you want to be buying some of those sectors.

Felicity: [00:19:49] I guess another hot commodity that we're all hearing about is uranium. So you've got Paladin de Polo, which is previously VME, and we spoke about that on the show Boss as well as Lotus, and then one of our favourite is Silex so the uranium enrichment now, prices for uranium has increased 167% for UF6 and over 1,000% for S.W. last year, largely due to the Russian Ukraine conflict. You know, how reliant is this sector on Russia and what exactly is involved for the West to move away from Russian contracts? 

Jeremy: [00:20:25] Good question. Again, and an interesting sector and one that we've been invested in for the better part of five years, I guess. The uranium sector is incredibly reliant on Russia. I think it's it's 40% of enrichment, depending on which numbers you look at, 30 odd percent of conversion and even a bit of, you know, 6 to 10% of uranium supply. So very reliant. And I think because of how reliant the West is on Russia is the exact reason why there haven't been sanctions put in place already, because there's there just aren't other options. Earlier this year, we saw confidence the the American company get a grant for and they will be involved in conversion and now restart midyear. So that will take a little bit of the pressure off of global conversion capacity. And then I think once that bottleneck is removed, I think then the focus shifts too to uranium production of Q3, which, you know, already we're seeing or we're seeing reports of higher tile assays being requested by utilities, which means that more uranium needs to be fed into the into the process to to come to enriched uranium, which which then in turn means that you need, you know, up to 20 adds about 20% of demand to to the global uranium market. So so it is a super interesting time. There's a I guess a coalescence of factors. We think that that are coming together now in terms of, you know, the long term story, which is about, you know, a shift in power generation. And so you're seeing those extensions and expansions of nuclear reactor fleets on top of China and India, which have a build out plan. We've got the emergence of the small modular reactors and their approvals, which is occurring too. And then also to the story of utilities needing to to contract more, which which did happen a bit in 2013 too. But but more of that does need to happen. And that's coming together with with the more financial market story which involves yellowcake, who have bought £1.35 million of uranium just recently and brought about £1.5 million I think already this year in the physical market. So so you've got the short term, I guess, physical market squeeze and in the longer term power generation story coming together. So yeah, we think it's a super exciting space. 

Felicity: [00:23:04] So, you know, you've listed a lot of different catalysts for uranium. Do you have a top pick in this space? 

Jeremy: [00:23:10] Yeah, I mean, we hold Silex, you mentioned Silex before. We do hold that in our green metals fund. 

Felicity: [00:23:15] Excellent. I've held it for ages. I've been very lucky. I have a very low cost base.

Jeremy: [00:23:19] Yeah. You must have done well. 

Felicity: [00:23:21] Yeah, So far so good. Yeah. 

Jeremy: [00:23:23] And I think, you know, just as they progress and, and potentially we see the investment from Cameco, I think there are a number of catalysts there which are, which are very exciting. It's already performed well. But I mean if you look at the last cycle it, it still has potentially a fair way to run, you know, the best undeveloped uranium asset and indeed one of the best undeveloped metals and mining assets of any commodity is held by Canada's next gen in the Athabasca Basin. They're listed on both the ASX and the TSX. 

Felicity: [00:23:57] We really like NexGen as well. So you've kind of just reiterated some of the companies that we're already investing in for our clients and have been personally also. So in a moment we're going to hear more about other commodities Terra Capital are investing in, as well as other areas of the resource sector that they're potentially avoiding. But first, let's hear from our sponsors. 

Candice: [00:24:18] So we've covered a lot with the guys so far. You know, we've spoken about copper and uranium. But I would love to hear if there's any other commodities that are, in your words, you know, underrated and perhaps might have a better 20, 23, you know, go in the markets. One thing that comes to my mind is gold had a terrible time in 2022, as we all know. But there seems to be a lot of M&A happening in the space right now. And I'm thinking of the recent Newcrest announcement. So is that one that you're liking or is anyone else coming to mind in terms of an underrated commodity for this year? 

Jeremy: [00:24:50] Yeah, look, we have a decent gold exposure within the fund. As you say, it was a tough year last year and we'd like to think if the US sort of gets to the end of that rate rise cycle and that US dollar starts to or continues to sort of fall and that's obviously should be quite bullish for gold. You know, you've seen the biggest central bank buying in gold for, I think maybe ever in the last half, which is great. But to really get that commodity moving, you probably do need ETF flows. They haven't really happened yet. They haven't really had that retail buying yet. We're cautiously optimistic on gold in terms of maybe some other commodities that mean some someone, some commodities only the people hadn't thought of. I think like a lot ten, which is a very small commodity market and there's not many ways to play it. But yeah, the market's taught. You've seen supply come out of Peru, you've seen supply, you know, it's coming to an end in Myanmar. Indonesia is probably not going to provide the base supply, better supply that once was. So there's in a small market, I think that has the capacity to go up, you know, quite quickly. I mean, from the battery metals, you know, lithium continue to keep performing really well. I'd be surprised if the price remained where it is now, but it doesn't need it can come off and still be fantastic for the producers. And, you know, I quite like graphite, too. I mean, I think that's that's probably a commodity that people don't talk about too much. But, you know, it is a critical component of any battery. And the supply is again, there isn't a ton of supply, are there? So that's one I think the could be interesting. 

Candice: [00:26:43] Is graphite a similar supply issue as copper in tougher restrictions? 

Jeremy: [00:26:49] They're different. I mean, they're supply constrained, but they're probably a little bit different. I mean, you're not going to see you're not seeing a lack of huge discoveries. It's just that they're not super easy, You know, I mean, Sierra is a is a large has a large graphite deposit, but even though it's got a very large graphite deposit and could notionally supply a decent amount of the market, it's had technical issues which have prevented it from, from doing that. So I guess it's not the same as copper, it's supply constrained for many different reasons. Yeah, just just to add to that, graphite is a relatively geologically abundant commodity. It's more so that the global expertise for processing the material and getting it into the form required to to go into the anode requires technical expertise that the West just doesn't have. And so although there are a lot of Western mine companies that have plans, they don't have the experience, which is which is something that we look out for. And in our I mean, every mining, every commodity, but particularly graphite. All right.

Felicity: [00:28:00] So on the flip side, what areas of the commodity sector are you potentially avoiding and why? And then I've got a follow up question here. Could be a little bit cheeky. We know that you don't short companies, but if you could short one, what would it be and why you don't you didn't name it, you could just potentially describe it. 

Jeremy: [00:28:20] Yeah, no problem. Presently we don't. Sure. But I mean there's obviously parts of the market that we don't own, so I guess that's a proxy sort of for shorting. And look, I think I think we looked at the Aussie gold sector at the moment. That means the last quarterly reporting was pretty poor. I mean, there's not many of them that are making very good money. And so particularly with assets in Western Australia still got labour issues and costs are still incredibly high. I think. I think if you're looking at it at companies to avoid, you know, if you happen to be maybe building a gold mine, NWA at the moment and you've taken on leverage to do so well, that's probably you've probably got the biggest chance of, of being caught short. And so there's a few, I guess, developers out there that I would suggest could be quite tight on capital and may have. Go back to the market. That's probably one way to avoid, you know, lithium. There's some some developers in the lithium space that have quite heroic valuations, but they so far haven't necessarily been a good place to bet against, I guess. But they are some of those a price to perfection. So them we're talking not producers here. Some of them are priced to perfection. So if the lithium price came off, then I guess they'd be susceptible as well. 

Candice: [00:29:44] Okay. So I just want to quickly circle back to the EV rollout and most importantly, ESG, which is getting a lot of traction in the media. Right. And it's really important. And we're a big believer out here on talk Money to me. But from your perspective, because you talk to the companies on a day to day basis, how are you seeing the ESG movement impact the funding of mines? 

Jeremy: [00:30:04] As I think we mentioned, there's still a fundamental paradox, I guess, when it comes to the ESG movement in that everyone knows stands that you need to build out mines to provide the commodities to to to sort of get us to that that carbon zero, those targets. However, much of what I really want the mines in their backyard. So we're still struggling with permitting and it's still not easy to build out these mines and therefore that is exacerbating the supply constraints. So we still think that paradox exists. Having said all that, I think the West does have an understanding that they've been caught flat footed by China in terms of tightening up supply, particularly for battery commodities. I mean, China, whether it's set to control supply, whether it's at the mine or it's upstream of the processing in many commodities that the that the dominant player, the West and particularly the US understands this. And so I think you're seeing in the Inflation Reduction Act and the US Defence Department, they are starting to try and address that and help companies to build out and provide grants or loans or financial packages to help build out some of those mines. So I think there's you know, there's going to be a premium put on assets in those jurisdictions and the funding will get easier than it has been before. But at the moment we still have the paradox of it's still hard to build a mine even though it's to help get to the 2050 targets. Yeah, it's just such a massive amount of investment that needs to occur even by 2030 to say if we're going to get on the right trajectory to meet those targets. And and, and going back, I guess, to the cycle as well. You know, in the 2000 China spent in the US 10 trillion USD on their infrastructure buildout which drove the last commodity cycle. And so in today's dollars terms, I guess you could call that 15 or $16 trillion and Goldman Sachs estimated by 2032 that $56 trillion would need to be spent if we're going to hit the targets. So it's so it's a multiple of what was spent and, you know, 56 trillion versus 16 is there's a massive difference there. But even if we say we got half of that, that 56 trillion is still a massive impact on commodity markets. If we're going to get to those net zero targets. 

Felicity: [00:32:35] If you could pick one company to invest in the resource sector in the next ten years, what would it be and why?

Jeremy: [00:32:43] I like Glencore because it's a bigger company, but it does have a lot of the forward facing commodity exposure and some of the best commodity exposure there. It's a good company. You know, you've got great copper, nickel, cobalt, zinc and you do have some thermal coal. But other than that, I'm going to go to Glencore. Yeah, and. 

Felicity: [00:33:06] Glencore. All right, you're Jeremy's Glencore. Matt. What do you?

Matthew: [00:33:10] My fear is foreign. I mean, there's a reason why I still have one of the biggest positions in our farm. You know, that they've got not only an exceptional development asset already, but they've also got significant exploration alongside with where they are. They're surrounded by some other large copper miners. I just I just think it's a great story and very, very well run company in terms of the management team, which is one of that. That's our main screen. 

Candice: [00:33:38] Okay. So we had Glencore and from for I am right for a mining. That's perfect. Before we let you shoot off, we just ask one question to all of our special guests. You ready? It's a really tough one. Really important coffee, tea or tequila? What's your preference? 

Jeremy: [00:33:55] What time in the day is? Yeah, I tend to have tea, then coffee and tequila. If I'm going to be in and love it. 

Candice: [00:34:00] That's how. Good. That's a good.

Felicity: [00:34:02] Answer. Very good. Well, thank you, Jeremy and Matthew, for speaking with us today. That was really great. And we look forward to following Terra Capital. 

Jeremy: [00:34:12] Thanks so much for the time. Really appreciate it. 

Matthew: [00:34:13] Yeah, thanks for having us. Thanks a lot. 

Candice: [00:34:15] Now, before we sign off, please remember, although Felicity. Our financial advisors at Shaw and Partners. And obviously we spoke a lot about different companies in the resource sector. This discussion today does not constitute as personal financial advice. As always, you should seek professional financial advice before you make your investment decisions. All of the company details and the facts and all the market information was based on the time of recording, which was the 14th of February. 

Felicity: [00:34:40] Wow. So if you want to hear and follow more about Terra Capital, you can find out information on their website which is www.terracapital.com.au. Make sure you follow us on app talk money to me podcast for daily market updates. And again if you enjoyed this podcast, please make sure you give us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And remember, if you've got any questions, you can email us tmtm@equitymates.com will be back next week. Until next time. 

Candice: [00:35:10] See you then.