The changing face of investing with Rachel White | ASX Week

Bryce: [00:00:15] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast that follows our journey of investing. Whether you're an absolute beginner or approaching Warren Buffett status, our aim is to help break down your barriers from beginning to dividend. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy, Ren. How you going? 

Alec: [00:00:32] I'm very good. Bryce. Great to be back here for day two of ASX week. One of our favourite weeks of the year where we partner with the ASX to celebrate ASX Investor Day and get the opportunity to speak to some of the best speakers from that day. 

Bryce: [00:00:46] That's it. The ASX Investor Day is a day designed to provide investors of all levels with practical tools and knowledge to help improve their investment strategy and build their investing confidence. So those in the Equity Mates community will know that we've partnered with the ASX Investor Day for the past couple of iterations and now we're coming at you again with five more experts across the week. But Ren, what can we expect? 

Alec: [00:01:10] Yeah, jam packed week. So yesterday we kicked it off with Lauren Jackson from Fidelity, talking about key megatrends driving global markets. Today, we're joined by Rachel White from Vanguard, speaking about the changing face of investing. And still to come this week, we've got Dania Zinarova from Wilson Asset Management and Anthony Doyle from FireTrail, both speaking about some of their top investment insights from around the world. And then we close the week out with Adam Dawes from Shaw and Partners with a buy hold and sell episode. So plenty of content to cover this week. But Bryce, there's even more at ASX Investor Day if people want to actually attend the day, what are the details? 

Bryce: [00:01:52] Well, the exciting news is it kicks off this week, Brisbane, 14th of May at the Sofitel. Then heading down to Melbourne on the 21st of May at the Grand Hyatt and then closing out in Sydney on the 28th of May. Ren and I will be at the Sydney event. So Equity Mates community, if you're here in Sydney, come along and have a chat, but plenty of awesome guests speaking at these events on the day. So head to the ASX website and without further ado it is our absolute pleasure to welcome Rachel White to the Equity Mates studio. Welcome, Rachel.

Rachel White: [00:02:25] Thanks, Bryce Ren Thank you for having me. It's lovely to be here with you both and your listeners. 

Bryce: [00:02:30] So Rachel is head of Financial Advisor Services for Vanguard Australia. In this role, Rachel is responsible for the growth of Vanguard's business with financial advisors. She previously was head of product strategy in Australia and held a similar role in the UK, both at Vanguard. So plenty to cover today. As Ren said at the top, we're going to be discussing the changing face of investing, so let's crack in. 

Alec: [00:02:56] Yeah, well, Rachel, your presentation at ASX Investor Day starts with a really encouraging statistic and that's where we wanted to start the interview today. Women made up 45% of new investors in the previous 12 months. And if we look back five or ten years ago, that number was 31%. So really encouraging move in the last five or ten years, what should we be attributing this improvement to? 

Rachel White: [00:03:23] It's really encouraging, isn't it? So what we what we're seeing is investors are getting younger and they're more likely to be female. And there's actually been quite a surge in female investors under the age of 34. And why is that? Look, there's a couple of reasons. I think the first and this isn't a new story, but historically low interest rates are people savings on earning much on a bank account or term deposit? It does finally look like rates are going to start rising again, but it's going to be a very gradual lift off, virtually nothing when you've got a 12 month term deposit rate that is still only providing about 0.25%. So that's not all that appealing for most people, particularly when you've got core inflation between two and 3% and it's on the rise. So people are looking for an alternative. You then you've got a bunch of younger investors who are looking to investment markets as an alternative to property because the data are completely out of reach, given sky high residential property prices or other, you know, people are saying, do I really want to have all my money tied up into one asset that's got pretty low liquidity, huge costs to service. And so paying off a giant mortgage for the rest of my life would I prefer to put my savings in a well diversified investment portfolio where I know my course I can control my costs, I can sell top up, as I say, is that actually a much smarter approach? And when we think about women getting pleasingly, what we're saying is investing is just becoming way more democratised. And the stereotypes of who an investor is, who an investor can be, it's changing. And you've now got some incredible information for people who are just getting started or who are learning as they go online. Tools, events, great podcasts, like you guys. I also love your other Equity Mates media podcast that talk money to me. You know, my female friends in particular. I love that show and it's great to see that more female focussed content out there specifically targeting women and it brings them to the table. The only final point I'll just make on that question is the other pleasing thing is barriers to entry coming down when it comes to investing. So the beneath that, you can't get started with investing until you've got serious money saved. And that's probably because, you know, ten years ago that was somewhat true. Now, if you wanted to invest in managed funds, sometimes you needed 50 $100,000 to get started. And so people set off on the sidelines until their forties and fifties. And for women who on average do have less disposable income. That's a really high hurdle and it's a very daunting amount. But now you can get started investing in ETFs from $200. So that's a game changer for most people. 

Bryce: [00:06:05] Yeah, it's been great to see over the last few years the minimums drop and technology improves so that it is becoming more accessible for US retail investors to get access to the market. So you mentioned there that's one barrier. And with about 50% of the population being female, 45% is not a true reflection of, I guess the Australian population. So what are the barriers still exist at the moment? 

Rachel White: [00:06:30] Yeah, it's not reflective and that's new investors. When you actually look across the board, the numbers even lower again and I'll tell you a story. So my first job at university part time role was at a stockbroking fan. And in my final interview they told me, look, you're the first woman that we've ever had in the firm. And it became pretty clear to me early on that the culture really wasn't all that inclusive for women, and it was to the point that actually, from a career perspective, when I finished uni, I stepped away from investments for a while and it actually took me years before I stepped back in. And look, since then I've had the most incredible career. I've worked for very supportive, inclusive companies and been inspired by some amazing male and female leaders. But it is amazing. Almost every family stage has kind of one or two of those stories. So, you know, there has been stereotypes that has been, you know, not inclusive behaviour, but that's becoming way less acceptable. And as more women get involved, the more balanced it becomes, those stereotypes are just fading away. The other point I just made on on barriers, I think sometimes I worry that the market gets the narrative wrong. Sometimes there's a lot of talk about the fact that women aren't confident or we're really risk averse. But what I think is really important is that the industry is actually reinforcing that women are really competent investors. Like, of course, everyone, when you first get started and you're pretty fearful, I'm going to lose it all and I know what I'm doing. And that risk is more confronting when you have less say. So you know, there is the gender pay gap still and women are earning about $26,000 per annum less than than men on average. So if we can kind of collectively tell this narrative that women are really smart investors, doesn't take a finance degree to be a good investor, it's about doing a few things well. And when I say a few things in my industry to an investment plan, like ask yourself why you're investing, what for, diversify your portfolio, invest for the long term, and be disciplined in your approach. And if we can reinforce these simple but really steadfast principles, I think that really helps take the fifth factor out. 

Alec: [00:08:43] Now, obviously, when we say something like women are better investors than men, we're speaking in generalities. And, you know, there's obviously there's nuances to all this data, but the data on the whole does suggest that women are better investors than men. And some vanguard data suggests that women are slightly more diversified and less likely to engage in frequent trading behaviour. Can you talk to that data and maybe any of any other data that you have that suggests differences between the average female investor and the average male investor? 

Rachel White: [00:09:18] Yeah, so definitely this is averages and ideally it's better, maybe it's different. But there are two big differences that we see between men and female investors. So the first one is attitude to risk. So when I conducted a study in a US business across 4 million accounts and the results showed that women weren't risk averse, they were just quite risk conscious. So as you mentioned, men and women actually had really similar exposure to equities or risk assets, but women skewed their portfolio towards less concentrated risk, so they're less likely to hold individual stocks and more likely to hold balance diversified investments like ETFs. And when we looked at Australia's personal investment platform, it showed really, really similar findings. So women held about 60% of their investments in pool funds like ETF where it's a male, so it was more like 50%. Second big difference is how males and females approach trading. So women on. Average are less likely to engage in frequent trading, about 50% less, in fact. And that's important because frequent trading can be pretty harmful to investment returns. So there was quite a famous study that was done. It's pretty old now. You probably had it. It was back in the late nineties. It was from some researchers at Berkeley University, and they looked at male and female investing behaviour across 35,000 accounts and they showed really similar results and males were trading about 45% more than women. What was interesting was that this additional trading saw men on average underperform by about 1% per annum. And 1% doesn't sound like a whole lot, but when you compound that over many years, it could be pretty serious money. So these are, you know, trading avoided wealth because getting tactical calls right with investing is very difficult. And even the best investors will tell you that most professional fund managers will tell you they can't do it. I'm sure you hear that from many of your guests on this show, and that is professionals who do it full time. So imagine how hard it is for the everyday punter and then you add the cost factor to trading. So every time you trade share or an ETF, there's a cost or typically a cost. So a lot of platforms might charge you five, ten, $15 brokerage every time that you buy and sell. So if you're making regular trades, these costs are just going to burn into your net returns. And particularly when you're trading smaller amounts, that could be a pretty decent percent of your investable assets. And it was interesting back in March 2020, during the COVID market volatility locally, we saw a very similar pattern. So more men were changing their portfolio compared to women through that period. And as we know, the market dropped about 30% in 20 trading days, but then it recovered really dramatically in a very short period. So if you were trading through that period, you could have missed a lot of upside. So if we get back to to the study, the concluding point of the study was that this pattern of more regular trading was due to an overconfidence factor. So some males exhibited a tendency to be more confident about making the right decision. So they traded more frequently. But what I do think is the key learning here and actually for many females and hey, if you're a bit hesitant, if you're lacking in a bit of confidence, you know, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It might actually serve you quite well once you get started in and help you to have that discipline in your investment approach to stay the course. 

Bryce: [00:12:52] So Rachel Vanguard is an American business. You've worked in both the UK and Australian offices, and we've just kind of set the scene about what's happening here in Australia. But how does the female investing participation in Australia compare to female investing participation over in the US and the UK? 

Rachel White: [00:13:11] So pleasingly it's going up across the board. So just like in Australia you've got about 28% of women in the UK investing in the share market, similar in the US, but it's going up. So there's been a 30% increase in women making household financial decisions in the US from just five years ago. And really interestingly, the gender pay gap in the UK has actually closed for women under the age of 40. 

Alec: [00:13:39] Wow. 

Rachel White: [00:13:40] And a big reason for that is because women are now much better represented in higher paying paying industry. So investing, for example, which has historically been much more dominated by males and when we see these new money that's going into the hands of women invested, it's really interesting for, say, the financial advisor community in Australia, only a quarter of financial planners, women, often women have a preference to see another woman because they understand some of their different behaviours or unique challenges that women face, like less super taking more time out of work, working part time, more so advice practises that are thinking about these and being more forward looking in how they can engage this new group of investors. You know, they're going to be rewarded. And I think the same can be said about the broader investment community. It's important to be asking, how do I capture this new audience versus just doing what I've always done and hoping that that resonates? 

Alec: [00:14:42] Yeah, definitely does. And that's really pleasing data out of the UK. Hopefully we see Australia follow. If we broaden it out from just the changing male female split, but more broadly between the US where Vanguard's based, the UK, where you previously worked and now Australia. Do you see many differences in investing culture or habits of retail investors between these three countries? 

Rachel White: [00:15:09] So one big difference we see here in Australia is the allocation to Aussie equities. So the Australian market represents about two or 3% of global markets and most investors here hold 50, 60, 70% of their portfolio in Aussie equities. So that's really common and that means you've got a really material overlay to our home market and our home market is pretty concentrated given you've got a few large banks and resource companies consuming a big part of the index. In contrast, if you're sitting in the US, the US market is 60% of global market. So if you've got a 60% allocation to US equities and the rest in international markets, you've actually got a really balanced portfolio. The other related point here is Australians love Australian equities because the yield so because we've got franking credit system, the high dividend payout ratios by many Australian companies, investors get a very attractive grossed up dividend yield somewhere around 5 to 7% in other regions. They don't have this dynamic. So you might be lucky to get a 2% dividend yield on a global or a US equity fund. So typically US and UK investors allocate more to bonds or fixed income, particularly when they try to seek income. I would say, however, Australian investors allocations to bonds are going up. They are using more fixed income in their portfolio, but they use it more as a defensive asset class. So investing in high quality fixed income like government bonds or investment grade credit. 

Alec: [00:16:45] When you talk about those different preferences and I don't think any Australian listener would be surprised that there's a lot of home country bias here and that we have a preference for dividend paying stocks. I think a lot of Australian investors would riot if some of those big blue chip companies cut their dividend. Does that translate into different investing practises? And by that I mean, you know, are the American investors in Vanguard products overweight or preferencing different products to maybe an Australian investor? 

Rachel White: [00:17:20] Yeah, it's sort of extending upon the final question. We we offer less fixed income products here in Australia than we do in many of our other regions, particularly those bond funds that are designed for yield. So emerging market debt hired, fixed income ETF been much less popular here. Interestingly, across all three regions, we see a high level of consistency in investors just loving low cost, broad based, high market global equity funds. They like them. They use them at their core, and they're on most popular ETF no matter where you go. Globally, we we've also been very successful with our diversified product range. So that's our multi-asset funds. So they're essentially all in one investment solution. So set your acid allocation. They do automatic rebalancing to give you local global emerging market equities and defensive assets. And investors really love those products because they take the guesswork and time out of investing. You buy one ETF and your portfolio is set and you get to outsource those hard decisions to us. Interestingly, in Europe and the UK, we actually don't offer these products as ETFs yet because the ETF market over there is very institutional. Yeah, right. So the managed bond version is quite popular for ETF demand, not bad. Whereas in Australia that's actually one of the fastest growing ranges because the ETF market in Australia is largely comprised of individual investors or advisors who are investing on their behalf. The one of the really interesting one that we see differences in demand and also I suppose product availability is sustainable investing or ESG. So investing in Europe is definitely in the main stage. Last year I think it was about 60, 65% of all cash flow into ETFs went into ETFs. And that's a that's an enormous figure. And in the US it's actually something like one or 2%. You can see somewhere in the middle, those are pretty stark differences. And in Europe I think we're seeing such a significant increase because you've got very supportive regulatory measures, government policy, and you just not seeing that in the US. In the US you've also got a much more divided public opinion. But in Australia we're seeing really positive momentum, largely from everyday investors just saying, Hey, I expect this or I want this. And so product issuers are responding, they're building out their range of products. And I think interestingly, I suppose a bit of a view in the market that everyone wants their own slice of ESG and there's these really material differences between region or individuals that make ESG really hard for a pooled investment vehicle ETF for a second. But we actually conducted a global study into ESG preferences a couple of years ago and it was amazing. There was a really high level of consisted of. In terms of what people wanted to avoid investing in. So when you exclude certain sectors or companies fossil fuels, gambling controversies, nuclear weapons. Really, really similar preferences. So we bought out a range of ETFs that have pretty much exactly the same across all three regions. But we do we do continue to do a fair bit more work on ESG, both locally and globally. We do think it's an enduring trend in all three regions. We think it matters to a growing cohort of investors. We spoke about female and younger investors. They shouldn't be particularly socially conscious. But the thing with ESG is there is a lot of great value here, trying to build a portfolio of the best based companies or securities, defining what the best is. It's very hard, it's very subjective and likely requires forward looking inputs. So for us, we're being very, very thoughtful in determining what the right product format is for that type of exposure. And, you know, maybe an index ETF actually isn't the right way to go there. And in the US, in the UK, where we recently bought two active strategies and it's actually something we're doing some time thinking about locally. 

Bryce: [00:21:34] All right, so it is good to hear that. Broadly speaking, we're all quite similar around the world because that aligns with our ethos. Ethos here at Equity Mates that investing truly is global. It doesn't matter which country you're in, you should you should be having access and the principles remain the same wherever you are. So glad that's the case. And certainly we're saying here through the Equity Mates community, the rise in interest of ESG. So that's really good to hear as well. Some surprising stats coming out of the states. Yeah.

Alec: [00:22:01] The states lifted.  

Alec: [00:22:03] Going on. 

Bryce: [00:22:04] Really surprising. So we've just discussed sort of the changing dynamic of the types of investors coming into the market. And we're going to turn our attention now to the future of ETFs themselves, because there's a lot going on in that space. But before we do, we're just going to take a very short break to hear from our sponsors. So, Rachel, one of the biggest questions that we often get in the Equity Mates community is a list of five ETFs and everyone wanting to compare them and understand which one they should be investing in. Because there's so many listed ETFs at the moment, over 250 I think, on the ASX and who knows how many listed overseas. If we were to extrapolate this trend, it feels like we'll eventually have more ETFs than listed companies, which is going to create chaos. What do you think the future of Australia's ETF industry is. 

Rachel White: [00:22:55] Actually look up and so at the end of 2021 there was over 8500 ETFs offered.

Bryce: [00:23:02] Okay, there you go. 

Alec: [00:23:03] Wow. 

Rachel White: [00:23:04] That a lot of ETFs. Yes. I worry about just how many ETFs there are because as you say, it's so hard to know which ones are the good ones. And the more there are, the harder it is to answer that question. And as an investor, you have to be a little more discerning. So I suppose I do hope that the number of ETFs offered in the market slows down. I do think that would be a good thing. I've worked in product development for many years at Vanguard and it takes us a really long time to launch an ETF. If we actually go through a very serious due diligence phase and we look at things like investment characteristics and merit, does the asset class of the ETF improves long term investment outcomes? Does it diversify away stocks specific risk? Is it going to meet the needs of our investors over different market cycles, and will it be used appropriately? Does it have the right level of liquidity? You know, an interesting dynamic with ETFs, you can't shut an ETF like you can with a mutual fund. So you've got to take a really close problem from new investors coming in. I mean, so you have to take a really long time horizon when you're thinking about suitability and feasibility planning. But on the plus side, from a bank perspective, you know, I can't really know where investors really know what type of products they're going to be getting from from Vanguard. But when I do think about the number of ETFs offered in Australia, I'm pretty optimistic that we won't get the same level of product proliferation as we've seen in certain other markets. And I think that comes back to a point I mentioned earlier. I just don't think we're going to see institutional investors swarm the market in Australia. And the reason for that, I mean super fund staff don't really have an incentive to buy ETFs maybe around the edges for kind of tactical short term trading strategies. But the rest of the market here is really small. So I do think that will probably help moderate the number of ETFs that are offered in the Australian market. 

Alec: [00:25:01] You mentioned there that you spent a lot of time in product development figuring out the suitability and feasibility of ETFs for a market in the UK and more recently in Australia. If you flip it around and if you put yourself in the shoes of a retail investor who's trying to figure out the suitability and feasibility of ETFs for their portfolio, you know, Price gave the scenario where someone's looking at five, maybe ASX 200 ETFs, maybe S&P 500 ETFs. How would you suggest what are some of the factors you would suggest they consider when looking at those five, however many exchange traded products that all appear to be quite similar? 

Rachel White: [00:25:41] Look, I think you're going to figure out what you're trying to achieve with that exposure. Don't just buy an ETF to buy an ETF. There's more and more ETFs available. And back in the day, it was really easy to talk about the benefits of ETF's market exposure to diversify that low cost, transparent, active and they built for the long term. There's a huge asterisk next to that statement now because there's lots of ETFs that don't have all of those benefits and it actually some ETFs now that won't give you any of those things. So you do have to be more savvy. And if you're buying an ETF because you want that transparency, you want to see what they holding the underlying ETF is buying. If it's because you believe in low cost investing, then you've got to make sure that you're looking at those aspects and finding the ETF that is going to help you achieve that. 

Bryce: [00:26:33] So Vanguard pioneered the ETF industry with the passive index investing approach. We'd love to get your thoughts, though, Rachel, on what you what you're seeing with the variety of new active ETFs that are coming into the space and the niche thematic ETFs, you know, these ETFs that are exciting and hitting on some big key megatrends, certainly getting a lot of buzz in the Equity Mates community. But given your passive index investing approach, what do you think of the this this new trend? 

Rachel White: [00:27:05] Yeah, I think I get an email every week about a new ETF that's launch in India. So very exciting. I think last year, about 30% of all new ETFs that launched were symmetric, but interestingly, they only represent about 2% of assets. So they get quite a lot of airtime because they do have a catchy headline. But a lot of investors are still being pretty cautious. We need more niche investments. I think when you go to market environment where rates are going to go up and you've got more volatility in markets, that does mean there's additional risk with with certain automatic ETFs, particularly those that have been propped up by years of low to no interest rates, investing in companies with little to our earnings, trading on high multiples, those it's probably going to go through a difficult time. So investors are I think been quite conscious of that. But at Bank of we we talk about a concept, you know, I'm sure you've heard of it called core satellite. And it's an approach to building a portfolio where you have broad based, low cost index funds that you call and then you use more active or niche funds as satellite exposures around the edges. And it's a really nice technique because your core protects your portfolio, but if your risk tolerance allows it, you can speculate with your satellite exposures and they have that potential for big returns. But given that sort of small peripheral exposures, it's not going to blow up your portfolio if the ETF comes crashing down. So I think that's where these types of ideas are more interesting, but with active and probably the best kept secrets in the market. But Vanguard doesn't get active. We actually just do it in a low cost way. So we've all been fundamental active since 1975 when we first opened doors and more recently active sector based ETFs. And interestingly in Australia, one of our most popular ETFs this year has been a value factor ETF and that's actively managed by a court contain in the U.S. and given so many investors have been overweight growth and back in favour and this is a great ETF to give you systematic exposure to value stocks. So for Vanguard, it's not a bad index versus active. It's actually about high cost versus low cost. And so when you are thinking about investing in active, just make sure you're thinking about your cost, cost. So one of the things you can control with investing, so value factor ETF charges 0.28% your other ETFs in the market, but the charging over 1%. And the higher your cost, the higher the bar is for that management form. And all the studies will tell you there aren't too many managers in the world that have been able to outperform consistently over time. In Australia, only about 20% of active fund to that performed over a ten year period. So to increase your odds of outperforming, you've got to be really fixated on what cost you're paying for. 

Bryce: [00:30:00] Actually, we have almost finished the interview before we finish with our final three questions. First, I just want to thank you for your time today, but remind the Equity Mates community that you can see Rachel at the ASX Investor Day along with many other experts from around Australia, Brisbane this weekend, 14th of May, Melbourne on the 21st of May, and then Sydney on the 28th of May. You can head to the ASX website, we'll put the link in our show notes. There is a link at the top of their home page where you can register and grab your ticket and we will be at the Sydney one on the 28th of May. So if you want to come and have a chat as well, we'll be there. So Ren final three. 

Alec: [00:30:41] Yeah, let's do it. So, Rachel, the first of the final three questions, do you have any books that you consider a must read? 

Rachel White: [00:30:49] Well, I couldn't work at Vanguard and not quite a Jack Bogle. And so any of your listeners who haven't heard the game, Jack was the founder of the Vanguard Group, and essentially he was the pioneer and inventor of index investing in the first index fund. He had a mission in life democratise, investing for the everyday investor, no nonsense low fee for investing for everyone. And he was a bit of a celebrity in the investing world back in the US. He's even got a group of diehard followers called the Bogle Heads. Yeah, yeah. But Luke Jack passed away in 2019 and Warren Buffett paid tribute to him, saying that Jack did more for the everyday investor than any individual he's ever known. So that was quite the acclimation. But I read a number of books. My favourite one is called The Little Book of Common Sense Investing, and it's just a classic guide to Smart Investing. And it's quite amazing that these principles, which Vanguard still follows to these data, and you are, and even after 50 years, they continue to serve investors really well. 

Alec: [00:31:54] I love that. That's a great recommendation. And if people haven't heard of Jack Bogle, they should definitely look him up. You might have got some more Bogle heads out of this interview. So, Rachel, we know Vanguard doesn't like to pick individual stocks, but we always like to ask our experts for the best company they've ever seen before. We don't mean, you know, best investment today. We don't worry about valuation just purely on the company fundamentals. What's one of the best companies you've ever come across? 

Rachel White: [00:32:23] So I'm going to cheat a little bit in France because I think it would be would be so great to talk about AT&T now and then love started. Sorry, I'm breaking the rules a bit, but I'm going to give you my favourite bag of 80 ad nice. And it's the the high grade diversified ETF, so very high HD 35%. Aussie shares 50%. International Ocean is 5%. Emerging market equities 10%. Defensive assets. It's just a really rock solid ETF at ten 11% performance per annum every year for the last ten years or average over ten years, it's low cost. It provides you with the set asset allocation, automatic rebalancing. It's a perfect vehicle. And when you can sleep with a nice. 

Alec: [00:33:07] One, I would have thought with over $7 trillion under management Vanguard is a company comes comes under consideration here but I appreciate the ATF all the same. Rachel, the final question that we like to end the interview with. If you think back to your early days as an investor starting out in financial services, what advice would you give your younger self? 

Rachel White: [00:33:31] Well, Vanguard is actually a mutual fund. 

Alec: [00:33:34] So I tell. 

Rachel White: [00:33:36] My investors in our clients centricity and. 

Alec: [00:33:41] You've got me there

Rachel White: [00:33:44] Assuming, but otherwise. Yes. But look, advice, I'm sure that there's quite a lot I'd have to say. Look, start early and start with list. Like I was one of those people who waited on the sidelines until I built up a reasonable nest egg to invest. And if I went back to start with $200 and I'd continue to invest regularly. When you look at how impactful compounding is and time in the market. I was reading the other day, if you invest about $50 a week in a low cost Australian equity index fund from the age of 25 to 65, when you retire at 65, you'd have $1,000,000. That's pretty huge from $50 a week. And it just reinforces how successful you can be as an investor by making investing a regular habit and just maximising that time in market. 

Bryce: [00:34:33] Yeah, a great way to finish. Some advice that we often receive on the show so obviously is one that everyone should be listening to. So, Rachel, thank you so much for your time today. It's it's been a pleasure chatting through the changing dynamic of the investing landscape here in Australia and overseas and a reminder to our community, if you would like to see more of Rachel, head to the ASX Investor Day. So Rachel, thank you very much. 

Rachel White: [00:34:56] Thank you so much for having me here.