32 awards & counting: Does Beyoncé’s Grammy haul build her wealth?

Sascha: [00:00:03] From Equity Mates media. This is The Dive. I'm your host, Sascha Kelly. If you're a regular listener to the dive, you'll know that I'm a music nerd. So it didn't escape my attention that earlier this week Beyoncé became the most decorated musical artist in Grammy history, claiming her 32nd Grammy Award win. 

Audio Clip: [00:00:23] I fell in love with performing when I was about, I guess, six years old. 

Sascha: [00:00:28] Beyoncé is an iconic artist, and one could argue that she didn't necessarily need to claim all these Grammys to be seen as a musical visionary. But it didn't escape our attention that this record breaking haul of Grammys over the years has certainly helped to boost her career. 

Audio Clip: [00:00:45] I love to sing. I love to perform.

Sascha: [00:00:47] And she's not the only one. Forbes found there was a Grammy bounce of both concert ticket sales and producer fees combined of 55% in the year following a win in a single episode. It's Wednesday, the 8th of February. And tonight, I want to know, how does winning a Grammy move the needle on your monetary value as a musical artist? To talk about this today, I'm joined by my colleague here at Equity Mates is Darcy. Cordell Darcey, welcome to The Dive. 

Darcy: [00:01:15] Hi, Sascha. I know you're excited for this one, and I am, too. 

Sascha: [00:01:18] Absolutely. So first question, did you watch the Grammys? Did you watch the highlights? Did you think Beyonce was robbed? And as much as I love Harry Styles, he shouldn't have collected for Harry's house. 

Darcy: [00:01:29] I think Beyonce I was robbed in 2017, Sascha, but I'm not sure about this. I'm a big fan of Harry's album.

Sascha: [00:01:35] All right. So firstly, let's chat briefly about the Grammys themselves. Give me a little bit of context and a bit of history. 

Darcy: [00:01:41] Yes. So the Grammys are awards presented to recognise outstanding achievements in the music industry. They were originally called the Gramophone Awards as the trophy actually depicts a gilded gramophone. If you want to see what that looks like, you can actually check out our Instagram at the DOD businesses. And the Grammy goes to the Gramophone Awards, now being abbreviated to the Grammys. The first awards were presented in 1959, and they're one of the big four entertainment awards in the US. There were 91 Grammys awarded this year. 

Sascha: [00:02:09] Yeah, And that number fluctuates, doesn't it, Darcy? All categories sometimes get phased out and new ones get introduced as the Recording Academy, which is the non-for-profit that runs the Grammys. Determine what they think needs to be recognised and they're awarded to all sorts of people in the music industry, from everything from producers to solo acts to the people who write liner notes and albums. I'm not sure How young are you, Darcy? Do you remember reading the liner notes in albums? 

Darcy: [00:02:38] No. Hunter Yards. 

Sascha: [00:02:39] There's some really strange Grammy Award winners in history. Mikhail Gorbachev, Bill Clinton and Sophia Loren won a joint Grammy. Do you want to guess what it was for Darcy? Oh. 

Darcy: [00:02:51] That's a weird combination. I've got no idea. 

Sascha: [00:02:54] Really weird combination. They actually won for their work on Best Spoken Word children's album for Peter and The Wolf, which is a really famous piece by Prokofiev that has narration in it. And this is Grammy's award. It was a big deal when Viola Davis became the newest member of the EGOT community, winning the Last of the Big four awards that you talked about there, the Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony. And she won for best audiobook, narration and storytelling for her recording of her memoir, Finding Me. So all sorts of people get up on stage at the Grammys. Right.

Darcy: [00:03:31] Great stats that I just learned a lot.

Audio Clip: [00:03:34] We are witnessing history tonight. Breaking the record for the most Grammy wins of all time. Beyonce, Stan Lee and show your respect. It's Renaissance, Beyonce. 

Sascha: [00:03:48] But we're talking about Beyoncé becoming the most awarded person in history today, winning four Grammys to take her overall tally to 32. She was overtaking the late George Schultz, who was a classical conductor who had won 31. So which categories did Beyoncé win this year? Darcy Griffin I can't go. 

Darcy: [00:04:07] She won for best R&B song. 

Sascha: [00:04:09] Cut it absolutely off my Instagram. Yeah. 

Darcy: [00:04:13] She won the best dance electronic recording for Break My Soul. She won the Best Dance Class electronic album with Renaissance and she won best traditional R&B performance, The plastic off the sofa. Beyoncé now has 32 Grammys from 88 nominations in her career, and I don't think these will be the last ever session yet. 

Sascha: [00:04:33] She's only 41 years old, so I think she has lots of years to win left in her. But we're a business podcast, Darcy, so we want to look at the business side of these awards and how much winning a Grammy can impact honest career. Let's start with the night itself. Is there a cash prize for winning a Grammy? 

Darcy: [00:04:53] Bit of a disappointing answer, but no. And selling the Grammy is also very against the rules. 

Sascha: [00:04:59] I'm sure they get a really nice goodie bag, though, so there's probably enough value in whatever's on their site when they arrive. But also, surely someone's tried to sell a statue. I mean, I said there's a prize for line in arts, so I'm sure someone's fallen on hard times and tried to hock one on eBay. 

Darcy: [00:05:18] There is only one example I could find of a Grammy being sold, and that was a Grammy won by Johnny Cash in 1986, and then it was sold in 2004, a year after he died for almost $200,000. But that was a charity sale, Sascha.

Sascha: [00:05:32] Yeah, okay. So he'd already passed away. So obviously it was his estate, getting rid of it. Winning a Grammy, though, is the pinnacle of many artists careers, and obviously it gives artists great exposure and publicity. But looking through some of the winners of this year's categories, say Adele, Taylor Swift, LIZZO, Harry Styles, they're pretty much the biggest names in music. Is there a post Grammys bounce for artists like that, or are we really looking at the newcomers? 

Darcy: [00:06:03] That's a fair question, Sascha. Overall, there's definitely a post Grammys bounce. You mentioned in the intro, Forbes looked at a number of performers and producers who won a Grammy and found that there was a bounce of about 55% in concert ticket sales and producer fees in the year after win. Then there's some specific examples. Rapper and producer David Banner, he won a Grammy in 2009 and said his usual producer Fee jumped from $50,000 before winning to over $100,000 afterwards. To answer your previous question, the bounce is more significant for those who are lesser known Before winning a Grammy, often the best new artist winners, a big rise in popularity because it's like they've just been uncovered. Olivia Rodrigo won that last year, and Billie Eilish and Adele are also past winners, and we know how their careers are going. 

Sascha: [00:06:50] Yeah, they're all household names now, so I don't think they can complain. You mentioned a bounce of at least 55% in concert ticket sales. Can you give me some specific numbers around that? 

Audio Clip: [00:07:00] And the Grammy goes to. Unorthodox, Bruno Mars. 

Darcy: [00:07:08] In the year after winning his first Grammy in 2011, Bruno Mars average takings per concert increased from $130000 to $202000. That's a 55% increase right on that average. But Taylor Swift, Sascha, you'll love this one. Her average takings per concert increased from $125,000 before winning a Grammy to $600,000 at 380% surge after her first Grammy win in 2010. I've also got to mention that she's gone to a complete other level now. She earns well over $1,000,000 per concert.

Sascha: [00:07:43] Also, I think her first Grammy was when she was still considered a country artist. So it would have really helped put her across into the mainstream because country is seen as a niche form of listening. So higher producer fees, more ticket sales, I would assume more album sales and online streams as well. But is it all a good news story? I know when we did our Oscars episode, we joked about the fact that there's a bit of an Oscars curse. Does the same thing happen in the Grammys? 

Darcy: [00:08:13] There is a bit of a running joke that the Best New Artist award is actually a curse on the winner. And that reached fever Pitch, that narrative after Milli Vanilli was outed as lip synching. They were an R&B Joe who won best New Artist in 1990. But Sascha, that's been all but busted now with Adele, Sam Smith, Dua LIPA and Billie Eilish, just a few artists to win recently. Adele could even challenge Beyonce for most Grammys one day. She's already got 16 at 34 years old. 

Sascha: [00:08:43] Wow. Well, it's just going to be a race, isn't it? Beyonce is only 41. Adele is 34. But Billie Eilish might beat them both. She's got seven wins and she's only 21 years old. 

Darcy: [00:08:57] Go Billie. But I think realistically, winning a Grammy is almost always going to be a good thing for a career. Milli Vanilli didn't get caught because they won a Grammy. They got caught because they were lip synching. It is hard to measure the financial impact, but there's no doubt that the extra publicity is only going to boost sales and reach for an artist's music. 

Sascha: [00:09:14] Okay, So, Darcy, we've got some background on the Grammys and how it can impact a career. Let's hone in on Beyoncé, the goat of the Grammys, because this record breaking achievement comes at a particularly interesting time. Her Renaissance world tour has just been announced. And with the Taylor Swift and Ticketmaster debacle close in our Rear-view mirror, it's worth asking, are tickets going to be nearly impossible to come by? Let's talk about that next. 

Audio Clip: [00:09:48] It's amazing the things I've been able to achieve with Destiny's Child as a solo artist, as an actor. 

Sascha: [00:09:55] Welcome back to The Dive. I'm your host, Sascha Kelly. I'm going to ask you. We are currently undertaking our Equity Mates Community survey at the moment. It takes literally 10 minutes for you to fill out. It's super simple and it helps us understand what you want as a listener from us. If you fill out all the questions and give us your details, then you have the chance to win $500 or tickets to Finn Fest this year, which is on 11th of November. I'm going to put the links in the show notes. We would greatly appreciate your feedback. But Darcy, let's get on with the episode today. We've been talking about the Grammy Awards and in 2023, it's all about Beyonce. She's just become the most decorated artist in Grammys history with 32 awards. Will her extra Grammys really make a huge difference to her bottom line?

Darcy: [00:10:44] Honestly, not really. Beyonce is already massive. It's more about bragging rights now. 

Sascha: [00:10:49] Well, yeah, But before the break, you did mention how winning a Grammy can bump up your earnings from touring. And she did just make headlines for a private concert in Dubai. I don't know how much you can bump up these earnings because for one hour at the opening of the new Atlantis Hotel, she was reportedly paid $24 million. But shockingly, Darcy, I joke about the fact that it couldn't be bumped up any higher. But you're saying this isn't even her biggest payday. 

Darcy: [00:11:17] It's absurd, isn't it? $24 million for an hour. But back in 2015, Sascha Beyoncé performed at a corporate gig for Uber and they offered her $6 million. Okay. Pretty good. Yes. 

Sascha: [00:11:28] Fair enough. Yeah. Okay. 

Darcy: [00:11:29] She actually declined the cash offer and asked for it to be paid in Uber stock instead. Then when Uber went public in 2019, the value of those stocks surged and some reports said she'd easily tripled, quadrupled her money. 

Sascha: [00:11:43] Wow. It's not surprising, though, that she's made a few deals like that because Beyonce's net worth is estimated to be around $500 million. And together with her husband, Jay-Z, they're rumoured to be worth more than 1 billion. It just makes me think with that kind of money, you'd never need to work again. 

Darcy: [00:12:00] Yeah, definitely not. And Beyonce hasn't worked a whole lot recently or she hasn't toured much. The Renaissance tour will be her first in seven years, so it's easy to see why the demand is going to be so high. 

Sascha: [00:12:11] A lot of members of the Beyhive who have not had the chance to see her recently. So let's turn to the business of this tour. She's scheduled to play 41 shows in ten countries from May ten through to September 27. 

Darcy: [00:12:24] It will almost certainly be Beyonce's fourth tour to gross over $200 million, and that's based on forecasts from Billboard Box Score. Each show, it's pretty much guaranteed to sell out, and tickets will be about 30% more expensive than her last tour. That means the Renaissance tour could be earning between 6.8 million to $7.5 million per show. If we just take the lower end of that, Sascha, 7 million times 41 shows there's $287 million of total earnings. 

Sascha: [00:12:53] Wow. That's just incredible. We did an episode late last year on Taylor Swift's ERA's tour and the insane demand that Ticketmaster just simply couldn't handle. Renaissance is arguably going to be even bigger. Some tickets do go on sale Monday next week and they are being sold through Ticketmaster again. I mean, the nerves have already set in. Darcy, what can we expect? Have Ticketmaster learned their lesson?

Darcy: [00:13:20] Well, they've promised us that they have and they promise to do a better job than it did with Swift's ear as to.

Sascha: [00:13:25] Why it's hard to do a worse job. 

Darcy: [00:13:28] But judging by the demand expected for Renaissance tickets, I think this is really optimistic. 2.4 million Taylor Swift fans managed to buy tickets for her Ears tour, but 11.6 million missed out. So the demand exceeded supply by 483%. But the comparable figure for tickets to Beyonce's tour is more than 800%, according to a Ticketmaster blog post. So they've got to fix a lot of things. 

Sascha: [00:13:54] Well, that is such a worrying sign, both for people who want to get tickets, but also Ticketmaster's capacity to sell them without completely crashing. I would not want to be in the Ticketmaster war room at the moment. I'm going to link to that previous episode about Taylor Swift in our show notes. Well, here's the $287 million question. Darcy, what is Ticketmaster planning to do differently this time? 

Darcy: [00:14:19] They're having given away much detail, but they say they're going to stagger ticket sales to limit the amount of people on the site at once so that it doesn't crash. And it also says it will do something to fend off bots, but we don't really know what.

Sascha: [00:14:32] And what happens if that does not work.

Darcy: [00:14:35] There's going to be a lot of angry people. 

Sascha: [00:14:37] Yes, there are.

Darcy: [00:14:38] And not just Beyonce fans wanting to see her perform. There's a lot of pressure on Ticketmaster and the company it merged with Live Nation. They essentially have a monopoly on ticket sales and venues. And Beyoncé had to go with Ticketmaster as the seller for this tour because all the venues she's playing at are under the management of Live Nation, which is just the same company as Ticketmaster. So if ticket sales go badly, there's going to be more hearings in US Congress and more pressure to demerge the two companies. Ticketmaster and Live Nation, they've got over 70% of market share in the live music industry, so it might actually be a good thing if that happens.

Sascha: [00:15:17] Yeah, I find this story so incredible that like it really hasn't changed. But in this era of the super power of these pop stars Taylor Swift, Adele, Billie, Eilish, Beyoncé, you don't want to mess with fan power. And I think if anything is going to pressure this demerger, it's going to be the power of these music fans. So this is definitely a story that I'm going to keep an eagle eye on, Darcy. But let's leave it there for today. If you want to keep this conversation going, then follow us on Instagram where @thedivebusinessnews. You can contact us by email. Where thedive@equitymates.com. Or just hit, follow and subscribe wherever you're listening right now. And then you'll never miss an episode. While you're there, why don't you give us a five star review? It really makes all the difference in the world. Darcy, thanks so much for your help today. 

Darcy: [00:16:03] Thanks, Sascha. 

Sascha: [00:16:04] Until next time.