Work smarter, not harder | Feb Financial Fixes

Maddy: [00:00:20] Hello and welcome to You're In Good Company, a podcast that makes investing accessible for everyone. I'm Maddy Guest and as always, I'm in some very good company with my co-host, Sophie Dicker. 

Sophie: [00:00:30] Hello, Mads. How are we on this fine Sunday? 

Maddy: [00:00:34] We are recording on a Sunday, so it's lovely in. No time pressure.

Sophie: [00:00:37] No time pressure. And it's also a beautiful day. 

Maddy: [00:00:39] It is. We can just sit here all afternoon now. 

Sophie: [00:00:42] I feel like The weather, like the seasons have moved back a couple of months. Like December. Do you like to say I'm always cold? 

Maddy: [00:00:50] Oh, yeah. It's really hot. Feb is always hot. 

Sophie: [00:00:53] Yeah. I feel like March. We're going to have a really hot march as I'm.

Maddy: [00:00:56] I hope so. That is our birthday month. 

Sophie: [00:00:57] I never buy through Aries. Aries babies. I'm right on the date line. Mom was like I was actually two weeks late. 

Maddy: [00:01:05] Wow. Okay. I was like, 3 to 4 weeks early.

Sophie: [00:01:10] And Mum said she was like, You stayed in the womb because there is no goddamn way you wanted to be a Pisces. Because Pisces. 

Maddy: [00:01:18] No offence to all the Pisces. 

Sophie: [00:01:19] She's know my little sister is a Pisces. She's gorgeous. She's like Chill, relax. Like, you're really not saying that. Yeah, Aries, like, stubborn. Cranky. She would also, like,. 

Maddy: [00:01:32] I always never know. I feel like I'm such an Aries is like I really. I didn't feel sorry About getting very off Track to start off. Yeah, but then someone say, how do you describe it? I, I don't know. It's just me. 

Sophie: [00:01:42] I just know that it's stubborn, apparently, because it's like the ram. I don't know. Is it the man? Yeah. Anyway, off track. It's our third week of Feb, which is exciting. It was Valentine's Day last week. 

Maddy: [00:01:54] Yeah, Wednesday. Last night. Yeah. Was it? Yeah. 

Sophie: [00:01:58] Tuesday, because 21st is going to be today.

Maddy: [00:02:01] Maybe you're at. Yeah. Well, we forgot to. Acknowledge that it was Valentine's Day last week. Episode when it came out. 

Sophie: [00:02:08] But we all love each other. We love The community. And We hope you enjoyed the budget. There was so many of you that joined the Facebook group. YIGC Budget.

Maddy: [00:02:17] I do think we should put stuff like that in there more often. To get people to join the Facebook group. 

Sophie: [00:02:23] Well, give us any feedback. If you have been enjoying us, write to us something. 

Maddy: [00:02:27] I do have a confession. I said on last week's episode that this week I would go through and review all of my spendings like we spoke about. Yeah. Look, I haven't done it yet. 

Sophie: [00:02:38] You've been busy. You've been quite busy this week. 

Maddy: [00:02:40] Yeah. So things just got a bit upside down. But I will do it and I will share it. Yeah. 

Sophie: [00:02:46] Placer, I've actually had some friends reach out and say that they have loved it.

Maddy: [00:02:52] Oh, good. 

Sophie: [00:02:52] So. And I have a couple of good girlfriends who have gone through some of their expenses. And like, they feel like they have a bit of a plan for the year, which is nice. I've also got a lot of good friends moving overseas and so they're like, it's going to help with, you know. 

Maddy: [00:03:06] Good to think about all that stuff. Yeah, well, I've committed to a good friend of mine that we're going to sit down and we'll do it together. So more accountability. I'm saying. Yeah, I'm telling You I have to do it. 

Sophie: [00:03:19] Sure, I will check in, don't worry. So, for our third week of Feb, we are actually looking to work smarter this week rather than harder. 

Maddy: [00:03:24] Work smarter, not harder. 

Sophie: [00:03:26] Yes. To make our money. And we're going to be saying all about things like planning to ask for a promotion or a pay rise because this time of year is the best time of year to be thinking about it. So you can plan for your timeframe. 

Maddy: [00:03:40] Yeah, I think it's a great time of year, like you said, to sit down with your manager or your boss and have conversations about your goals for the year ahead. You know, John's quite hard still in the holiday mode, but Fab is kind of like, what do I actually want to achieve this year? What do I want to be doing? And I think probably too often we go to work and we just sort of fall into habits of just maybe doing our job as opposed to actually taking a step back and think a bit more strategically about, you know, what do I want to get out of this job? What's my timeline for promotion for a pay rise, or what do I need to do to get a bonus? So today we want to have a bit of a chat and share our experiences, I guess, of how we have gone about doing that.

Sophie: [00:04:24] Yeah, I've had a lot of friends actually ask me about when they want to go for promotion or pay rise advice. Yeah, and I would just like to say I'm not like solicited to give any advice compared to anyone else. You know, everyone knows different things and different strategies, but I think they've come to me and also you with your friends, because we are a part of this like female money community on social media. We are very exposed to a lot of these conversations. 

Maddy: [00:04:48] Yes. 

Sophie: [00:04:49] So we've gathered. Like out top process. Where to do it. 

Maddy: [00:04:55] Steps. 

Sophie: [00:04:55] Steps thank you. 

Maddy: [00:04:58] No worries, you got me.

Sophie: [00:05:00] What is step one to asking for a pay rise A promotion. 

Maddy: [00:05:03] Yes. Step number one is a bit of a classic and it is kind of what we've touched on over the last couple of weeks. But writing down your goals inclusive of timeframe. So do you want a pay rise in June? Do you want to be promoted in October? Do you want, you know, an equity stake in the business, which we'll get onto a little bit more later in your next sort of performance review? 

Sophie: [00:05:26] Yeah, and I would add to that, like having a very specific number. If you're asking for a pay rise, which will get into a little bit about how to come up with that specific number, but make the goal as specific as possible. 

Maddy: [00:05:40] Yeah. And then I think when thinking about this kind of stuff and especially relating to time frames, it's important to have a chat to people within your workplace around what is realistic. So, you know, for example, in our work we work in professional services. There is one sort of major promotion cycle each year and then one sort of small one and you don't really get promoted or a bonus outside of those periods. So we have to sort of work to those timelines. 

Sophie: [00:06:07] Yeah, asking is like so important because it actually happened to me. I was trying to go for promotion. Like last year. And then a month before what I thought was the date like a promotion. I went to my boss and I was like, Hey, I'm looking to be promoted. He was like, We set budgets two months ago. Like, What are you talking about? So just having conversations with people in the firm to understand if there are any of those timeframes and if you don't feel comfortable, ask h.r. So I like that to be confidential. Go to them and ask. 

Maddy: [00:06:35] Yes. All right, step number two. 

Sophie: [00:06:38] Step number two is one that I think people would oversight a little bit and it's to put yourself in the mind frame of the person who is going to be the master fate of your goal. That doesn't Make sense. 

Maddy: [00:06:50] No, I must be the decider. The decider of your fate. 

Sophie: [00:06:56] tThe decider of your fate. The reason why this comes to mind is it's something that my dad's I always said to me, like, because he's a professor at a university.

Maddy: [00:07:04] Wow. I did not know that. 

Sophie: [00:07:07] University of Queensland.

Maddy: [00:07:09] Tony. Tiny. 

Sophie: [00:07:09] He's a professor. So funny. Prof. Prof. When he was promoted to Professor, we were like, Whoa! 

Maddy: [00:07:16] Hello? 

Sophie: [00:07:16] Hello. He was just like, teacher. And now he's a professor. But he said he always says, like, you know, when you're practising for an exam or you're studying for an exam. Always put yourself in the mindset of like what the examiners might be thinking to, like, ask you, and that'll help you, like, understand what to study for. and I think it's the same when asking for promotion or pay rise, because if you're a manager, like, I don't know, let's give an example of a job like, say you're in a client facing role, and because you're in a client facing role, your manager really values like independence, like that, you can communicate with the client like that'll help you understand what you need to be thinking about when tracking, like what's important to them. 

Maddy: [00:07:56] Yeah. Another example is if you're working at a really small company or more of a start up, you know, they would probably really value you being able to be really agile and do multiple different jobs.

Sophie: [00:08:06] So putting yourself in that mind frame is going to really help you when you're tracking like achievements to like link to what they might really want. So second step is put yourself in the mind frame, which leads really nicely to the third step, which is track your achievements. 

Maddy: [00:08:22] Yeah, I have a good tip for this one. I have a folder in my emails called Happy. And whenever I get good feedback or whenever I get just anything that sort of is reflective in a positive way of like my performance, I put it in there so that, number one, if I'm feeling a bit sad at work or lack of it, you know, lacking confidence or anything like that, I can just go to that folder and just have a really quick scroll through and sort of pick myself back up. But the other time that it's really useful is come around sort of performance review time because I can go into that folder and say, Here are all these examples of times where I've done good things. Yeah, performed well. 

Sophie: [00:09:05] No 100% I have a really similar thing, but instead of an email folder I have like a it's in OneNote, whatever that is. Like it's a word document I guess, and it's called my short Sunflower One note, but it's a, it's a folder. I think it's it says it's a photo. So it's called Short Sunflower because in Australia we have like we're notorious. Which if you're, if you don't know what it is tall poppy syndrome is that we don't want to celebrate our achievements because it comes across as like a negative aspect to our personalities. Yeah, arrogance. But like you need to know what you've done, right? Do you get a promotion or a pay rise? So I call it the short sunflower because it's a happy photo short. So I'm like, sunflower is a happy. And it's just opposite to a tall poppy. 

Maddy: [00:09:51] Yes, I think it's such a good way just to have sort of that reference point when you are starting to have those conversations, because I guess when you can back it up with facts and, you know, it's like here this person said this on this that I got this feedback as opposed to just sort of trying to pitch your case. I think it kind of helps with that whole poppy syndrome situation because you're you're not just telling people you're good. You're showing them examples of when you were good. 

Sophie: [00:10:17] Yeah. And I would say a really helpful tip with this one because work gets busy. Totally got that. And like reflection just gets thrown out the window very often. I put 20 minutes in my calendar once a month. You could do it fortnightly, you could do it weekly and you could do whatever time frame you wanted. And I just have a little thing that says Short Sunflower in my diary, and it's 20 minutes of reflection, thinking about like the little maybe mundane things that you did in the past couple of weeks that actually do add up to useful things like the other things you forget when you go round to your review. So it takes put some like dedicated time in to reflect. 

Maddy: [00:10:54] That's a great idea. Something I was reflecting on recently that I wish I had done. I was applying for a slightly different role within my current job and so I had to together a survey and when I was thinking about preparing for an interview and things like that, I was going back through all the old work that I'd done, trying to remember what it was about, what, you know, sort of unique pieces of work I did on each project. And I was thinking to myself, I wish I had at the end of each project when it's all really fresh in my mind, written just two lines of notes or a couple of points around what we did, what unique piece of analysis. 

Sophie: [00:11:32] What you were Responsible for. 

Maddy: [00:11:34] Exactly. And just to trigger your memory about, you know, what that project was like or how you contributed. Because I think all of a sudden I was going back through all, you know, Excel. Deals and lack of. Thoughts, trying to think, what do we do on this project? And I was thinking something I really want to do going forward is just implement that habit of when you're rounding out something. It's pretty 5 minutes aside to jot down some notes becaus You just start. Remember this stuff?

Sophie: [00:11:59] Yeah. And so I'm like, if you're. On project work or if you've got a certain project going on, put some time in the diary of one of your managers at the end of it and be like, Can I just have a discussion with you about what I've done here, what I could improve on, just like all those little things after a project ends? 

Maddy: [00:12:16] Yeah. Is there anything else that comes to mind around? I mean, you sort of touched on earlier how you weren't aware of timelines you did since got promoted. Was there anything that you did differently in that sort of subsequent time period that you think helped you do that? 

Sophie: [00:12:30] Having that conversation with your boss was one thing, so he knew what I wanted. And then I also was asking him, like, what I could do during that time to make myself to the position of promotion. And because, you know, there's certain responsibilities or independence or whatever else. So just asking the questions, then they know that that's what you want. But then you know what you can do and then you can create your goals and benchmarks from whatever they've said to do. 

Maddy: [00:12:58] Yeah, I think something I found quite helpful was whenever I was starting a new projects for and I appreciate that this will be different for every single job, but we sort of roll on and off projects every couple of months, I would say, and I would sit down with the director at the start of the project and say, Just so you know, my goal is to be promoted at this point. So throughout. And it just sort of sets their mind up for, you know, what You Should be achieving, how you should be working over the next few months. And then it starts that open conversation, like you said, for a while, still working together. If they have feedback for you, you know, they should be giving that to you and you're openly asking for it.

Sophie: [00:13:42] No, it makes complete sense. I think like a good example of that is, like I said to my one of my managers that I want to start like leading meetings because I felt really ready to do that. Yes. He wouldn't have known if I hadn't have told him. And so then every meeting we'd go into, which sometimes Would get A little bit mad, she was like collating it. I'm like, okay, I don't know if you do or not. So ask definitely at the beginning of whatever at an art project or whatever type of work you're doing. 

Maddy: [00:14:08] So number three is set up your happy or your short sunflower folder so that you can keep track of what you've been doing, what your successes are to really help you facilitate open communication. 

Sophie: [00:14:21] Yes. Yes. Number four is market research. Exciting. 

Maddy: [00:14:25] Exciting . 

Sophie: [00:14:27] I actually did this the other day. I signed up for Glassdoor.

Maddy: [00:14:30] Interesting.

Sophie: [00:14:31] You have to use your work email so they can verify. Verify? 

Maddy: [00:14:34] That makes sense. 

Sophie: [00:14:35] Yeah. Organisation you're with, but everything's anonymous. Like if you write a review or whatever, you can choose for it to be anonymous. But it was great. It showed me the average salary of my position in Australia. It showed me reviews of people in Melbourne. Yeah, it's a I think it's a really good starting point If you're trying to understand what your average salary is for your role, it also shows competitors as well. So it can give you a really broad range of where you should be sitting. 

Maddy: [00:15:05] It's so important because knowledge is power, right? Yeah, I just feel like when you go into those conversations blind, you just I feel like you let yourself down because you don't know where you should be sitting and what your, you know, role in your team or division or industry is, I guess, capable of earning hundred percent. 

Sophie: [00:15:24] I've even had good girlfriends of mine like do this exercise, looking at the market, going into places like Lost or having conversations with people they know in the industry and always being shocked By How much people are being paid. They're like, I've had conversations with them that are like, Oh my God, they're getting paid 20 K more than me. Yeah. And it might be different circumstance like different types of companies and whatever else, but it's like they're very important conversations to have and very important research to do. 

Maddy: [00:15:55] So point four is come armed with the facts, with the information. You got to know what you can get.

Sophie: [00:16:02] Glassdoor told me that this is how much I should be being paid. 

Maddy: [00:16:06] Like, Oh, maybe don't say that. I don't know what that is right now. So I know you're about to say like, you were talking like Gloster told me. This is I was like, Oh, I'm just, like. 

Sophie: [00:16:16] Picturing my boss's face. 

Maddy: [00:16:17] Like, cool, okay, you're going to get a job at Glassdoor then. 

Sophie: [00:16:23] Point 5 is the big important date of putting something in your diary to have the conversation with the person who will be able to facilitate you getting a pay rise or a promotion. So this might be six months down the track, nine months down the track, but make sure you have that date and meeting set so that you know that you're doing it and you have to work towards it. 

Maddy: [00:16:43] Yeah, it's one of those things that's so easy to put off because it's. Can be, it can feel awkward. and also I guess there's like a bit of self pressure around it, like, you know, and this is the point that I have to work towards. This is the point where I might find out, find out the information I do or don't want to know. so. Be hard on yourself. Put it in your diary and make it happen. 

Sophie: [00:17:04] And just remember that, like, this happens all the time in workplaces. People are constantly asking for pay rises and promotions like your managers are used to it. You know, they know how to have these conversations. So like, it's going to be a two way conversation and like, it's not going to be like, you know, an interview. It's just a two way conversation of getting to understand what you actually can and can't have within a workforce. 

Maddy: [00:17:27] Agreed point number five, point number 6 is have a contingency plan. Why is this important? 

Sophie: [00:17:36] Contingency plan is important because just as we've said, like it's a two way conversation, they might come back to you and say that 10% pay rise is a no can do at the moment. 

Maddy: [00:17:47] I think particularly at this current time, you know, we've seen on the news recently that there are so many big tech companies laying people off left, right and centre. I think the economy, with interest rates rising is in a bit of a precarious position and I think understandably, a lot of businesses and business leaders are a bit nervous. So I think, Kate, whilst we should absolutely be having these conversations, I do think it's worth keeping in the back of your mind at the moment that it's probably fair enough. If businesses or your boss is looking to just push back a little bit on some of these things because it's hot. Like at the end of the day, especially if you're working for small business, it's actually really hard for them to do it. And I think it's just worth whilst. I wouldn't say it changes anything that we've spoken about so far, it's worth maybe managing your expectations a little bit on knowing that that in this current environment is a real possibility. 

Sophie: [00:18:43] Yeah, and like with a contingency plan, as I said before, I went to my boss and was like, Hey on me promoted, it was like bonuses. Yeah, budgets are set. My contingency plan was then, okay, can we talk in three months? And and your contingency plan can be it. Can we talk in six months? Can we talk in two weeks? It's just having a bit of a backup or potentially, you know, maybe not a 10% rise. Is there room for 5% something that you're willing to like budge on? Yeah. So that you don't feel like can like, walk out of the conversation completely disappointed if something doesn't go your way? 

Maddy: [00:19:17] Yeah, I guess just having like, facilitating that two way conversation is not you asking then blocking done that. It's like a okay, so I understand that. But what, what else can we do? How can we make this better in the future?

Sophie: [00:19:30] Have you had any like promotional pay rise conversations that haven't gone your way and that you've had to, like, use a contingency? 

Maddy: [00:19:38] Not specifically. I missed out on a promotion. I hadn't had the conversation like a bit like what you were saying earlier. I missed out on the promotion, which was a disappointment, but it was one of those sort of wakeup calls made that was like, Ah, you actually have to have the conversation. You have to be proactive about this stuff. People don't just look at you and go, Oh, looks like she wants to be. Promoted, so let's do it. So that was a real sort of learning experience for me to be like, okay, you know, you make these things happen for yourself and it's a real balance, I think, between having the right conversations with the right people and then actually just putting your head down and working hard to make sure that you're putting yourself in the best position to get the promotion. 

Sophie: [00:20:21] And you've got to have no body shame. Like, seriously, no shame, just get rid of it. Just delete it. 

Maddy: [00:20:27] Okay, so step number six is have a contingency plan. Go in with an open mind to have that conversation with your manager.

Sophie: [00:20:34] But there's actually also so many other things you can do if you don't get that promotional pay rise. We're going to chat through some of them right after the break. Okay. So as you said, Mads.

Maddy: [00:20:47] Just about going. 

Sophie: [00:20:52] As you said, like we're in an industry that's like you get promoted in June and then December and then that's kind of it or pay rises. But it's there's so many different industries out there and there's so many industries that are like almost set like as, as well. Yeah, like a good example is like one of my old housemates was a dentist and he worked in the government sector and like when I spoke to him about money, he's like, I get my pay rise once a year. It's in line with inflation and there is no budging. So I think it's important to like, discuss other things you can do if you're not in the realm of getting a pay rise or promotion, or if you don't have control over that conversation 100%.

Maddy: [00:21:30] So I think the first one that comes to mind, which is like pretty in line with what we've been discussing already, is a bonus. It's something that you can do when enjoying a company. You can often negotiate a sign on bonus. Yeah, and I know for us in a similar way that, you know, people get promoted. If your team is eligible for a bonus, again, it's for us. It's like annually, it's once a year. There is a time or maybe maybe biannually, I'm not sure, but there's set specific times in which you can get a bonus. But I know for other jobs I can imagine that there would be, you know, if you hit certain metrics on a project or you achieve certain things that there might be context or sort of an opportunity to have a conversation around that. 

Sophie: [00:22:14] And if cash is just not the thing that your company can give out, there's also other things there is you can ask for like professional development funds and the kind. 

Maddy: [00:22:24] Of cash. Isn't it. 

Sophie: [00:22:25] It is. Yeah, it is cash, but you can, I guess, frame it in the way that you're upskilling. So if there's no way of getting that promotion or pay rise, you can say, All right, look, I still want to contribute to this company and there's this course or there's a seminar or there's this event that's line with our line of work that I think will help, you know, make me progress within the role and ask your employer to pay for that. 

Maddy: [00:22:48] I think something that's maybe even a bit smaller scale than that is like a subscription to something. 

Sophie: [00:22:53] Yeah. And that could be like, you know, a female business group because you want to expand your network so it doesn't necessarily have to be completely in line with your line of work. But it might be a smaller thing that a company can fund. But like it'll, you know, make you happy or expand your skills in other ways or networks. 

Maddy: [00:23:11] Yeah, which I think it's just important to remember that it's a two way street, right? Like when you're asking for these things that you want, just remember to have a conversation around why it also benefits your employer, because that will make them, I think, more motivated. 

Sophie: [00:23:23] Aligned and inspired. 

Maddy: [00:23:28] More likely to. Agree. Yeah.

Sophie: [00:23:32] And then on the flip side of that as well, you can also ask for like non professional things. So say a personal gym membership could be one because it revolves around your wellbeing. I know in Australia like particularly there's a lot of focus on employees and like making sure that employees have good wellbeing, health and wellbeing. So like asking whether that pay for your gym membership or for an app membership like meditation. Can be doing. 

Maddy: [00:24:00] And I think Sometimes that things like this as well, like maybe it's a suggestion to your boss that they do it for the team. Yeah. Spending on the size of your team, you know. Oh I think headspace would be really beneficial or I think that's one thing that's coming to mind is flocks finance. They have that app which is around financial education and wellbeing that they're actually pitching to employers at the moment. And it's like that's one thing that an employer can do to pay for their employees that is going to increase the financial education and wellbeing of their employees. It's a great idea. 

Sophie: [00:24:32] I would also say that little bit of insight companies like going into the say next five, ten years are really going to have to focus on their ESG, like their environmental, social and governance side of their business. And boards and directors and managers are really going to be focusing on certain like key metrics. And one of that them is going to be around the health and wellbeing of employees. So I think it's a really actually opportune time to push things like that and like get it in front of your managers faces. 

Maddy: [00:25:01] I think something else that comes to mind that is sort of aligned with this wellbeing line of thinking is flexible working. You know, maybe it's maybe the 9 to 5 doesn't work for you, so maybe you're more of an early bird or a night owl and you want to come in early and finish early. All of those things are, again, depending on your line of work. I think obviously if you're a nurse, it's not going to go down so well. You say actually, although I guess shift work maybe you can go to the hospital in the mornings. But acknowledging that that doesn't work for every workplace, but potentially there's a bit more flexibility there that you could enjoy. 

Sophie: [00:25:35] I also feel like it's really hard for like managers to almost say no to that now because you can work from anywhere for certain jobs. So, you know. Putting that preference in isn't going to do any harm because the worst I can do is just say, no, it's not going to work. 

Maddy: [00:25:48] Yeah. Something that I have gone through recently or I'm going through at the moment is secondment. 

Sophie: [00:25:54] Yeah, do you wanna explain what that is. 

Maddy: [00:25:55] Yes. Second one is when you spend a stint of time in another team. it broadens your experience, broadens your horizon, your networks. It can be another team within your organisation, within your office. It can also be another team depending on the size of where you're working, maybe interstate or even overseas.]

Sophie: [00:26:17] Yeah. And so you're moving into another team. 

Maddy: [00:26:20] I am. 

Sophie: [00:26:20] Exciting. 

Maddy: [00:26:21] Exciting. 

Sophie: [00:26:21] Except you're moving to something Which is really not fun. 

Maddy: [00:26:24] Yeah. For another time or another time we'll get into. 

Sophie: [00:26:31] Yes. A common or even like asking for extended leave. Yeah. Like, if you need some time off to reset, do whatever you want to do. Ask your employer and say I'm going to come back a happier person. 

Maddy: [00:26:40] Yeah. One final thing that I think we should touch on, which Transparently. I actually feel like I don't know a lot about, I guess it's probably because we just haven't been exposed to it as much working at larger companies, but getting equity in the company that you're working for, including stock options, which basically just means that you have the right to buy into the company that you're working for. And it's often, you know, after a certain tenure or things like that. I think this one, if you're working at small companies at start ups, is really important to think about because if you're joining a company in its early stages, you want to go in sort of with a bit of background knowledge around what this does look like, can look like so that you can make sure that you're negotiating accordingly. 

Sophie: [00:27:30] And I think management do look at it like a good thing, because if you have stock in a company, it means that your interests are aligned with the business growing. Yeah. So it's again, it's an easy one to ask for, and the simplest answer that you can get is like a no. 

Maddy: [00:27:44] Yeah, you're so right. Your personally incentivised to make that, to work harder to make the business better because that is reflected in the value of your investment in the company. Exactly. 

Sophie: [00:27:54] Bringing Investing into. Investing into. 

Maddy: [00:27:58] Into working harder. Not smarter. Smarter. Not harder. Does it work hard? Don't work smart, inspiring stuff. So I feel like we've wrapped up. 

Sophie: [00:28:12] You know what? How to ask for a pay rise or promotion and what you can do if you feel like you can't ask for those things in your industry or job. Hopefully one of the one of the something we spoke about resonates with you. 

Maddy: [00:28:23] Yeah, I would really love to hear from you as well. Whether you've got experience in any of those, any of the things I've discussed today or anything else that you've done that you've spoken to your employer about that has really benefited you, Because at the end of the day, we spend a lot of our life at work. So if you can be enjoying it more, if you can be getting more out of it, then I think that is something I mean, that's investing in yourself, right? It's such an enriching thing to be able to do. 

Sophie: [00:28:49] Before we finish, I'm going to ask you, what is a Piece of Career advice that you have received that you think is shareable? 

Maddy: [00:29:01] Oh. Okay. One thing that I have been doing, which a friend actually recommended to me and it has been so far really beneficial, is having a little Book. That you write things down in. And I guess it doesn't have to be a book. It could be a note, it could be a Google doc, word, doc, anything. But I basically I write all sorts of things down. So if I am pissed off at work, I write it in there and I did it and I write what's happened. If something really good happens, if it manages, does something that I'm like, Wow, that was great. That really impacted me in a positive way, or I guess vice versa in a negative way. The reason why I do it. And. I have already looked back on it and found it quite helpful. Sometimes I write back something that I wrote in a Fit of Rage where I think that, you know, maybe I've been hard done by or something like that. And I look back and I'm like, Oh, okay, yeah, I was, you know, I actually was maybe in the wrong there or, you know, maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought. I was obviously caught up in the moment, but vice versa. What I really want it for is in years to come when hopefully I am more senior or become more responsible for managing people, I want to have that as a resource so that I can go back and be like, Remember that time that the director did that for me and that made all of the difference in my life at work and I want to be able to draw on that to be a better manager in the future. I think it's just a way of reflecting that a friend has suggested to me, and it's working really nicely. 

Sophie: [00:30:38] Yeah, you told me about this a couple of months ago and I started doing it as well and I think it's good. To be like, That's what I want to be like as a manager. And that's what doesn't work for me as a manager kind of thing. 

Maddy: [00:30:48] Yeah, and now it's funny, whenever we're talking at work, we always, if something happens good, bad. Ordinary, we just go put in the book that's a way of just being like, just vent it out, get it out, get it out of your system. Write it down, good and bad. Yeah. What about you? 

Sophie: [00:31:02] I think one of the best pieces of career advice. I'm sure someone might have given it to me, but also just me learning is ask. Always ask for what you want. Managers, directors, people above you. They're busy. People like they've got so much on their plate that you do not see as a more junior staff. And they don't know what you want unless you ask for it. 

Maddy: [00:31:25] Everyone's just looking out for themselves at the end of the day.

Sophie: [00:31:27] Yep. And they do want to like, help you progress, but like, they don't know what you're thinking. Yeah. So just ask for what you want. It's the classic old saying like asking you shall receive because it's not like you're asking for anything and not annoying or bad. I don't know the right adjective. You're often asking just for more responsibility as you progress, which is helpful for them because they're like, okay, I can give them that type of responsibility. Yeah. So yeah, just ask. Love it before we go. Just like to do a little reminder. 

Maddy: [00:32:00] In terms of asking for feedback. Opening the lines of communication. 

Sophie: [00:32:06] The Equity Mates survey is out at the moment, so you can jump onto our Instagram page or the Equity Mates Instagram page and find a link in the bio. 

Maddy: [00:32:15] We'll also put one in our episode notes so that you can go and check it out there. 

Sophie: [00:32:19] Give us your feedback guys. Let us know what you like. 

Maddy: [00:32:21] We want to hear how. And what you don't like. 

Sophie: [00:32:24] Like and what you don't like. And then the other one, little reminders really exciting. We have a date for.

Maddy: [00:32:30] Finfest.

Sophie: [00:32:31] 2023. 

Maddy: [00:32:33] I'm already excited. 

Sophie: [00:32:35] So that is going to be on the 11th of November. I think presale tickets come out.

Maddy: [00:32:41] Soon, soon. 

Sophie: [00:32:43] But we will be Posting on Instagram, whatever else. So you'll be kept updated through that and we will keep updating you to the podcast. We thought we would just let you know that it's happening again. 

Maddy: [00:32:52] Exciting times. Otherwise you will hear from us next week with our final fourth episode for Feb. Getting ourselves set up for the ahead financially next week is all about side hustles. Exciting. 

Sophie: [00:33:08] Exciting. We will catch you next week. 

Maddy: [00:33:09] See you. Bye.