Under the Hood | Investing in emerging asset classes

Bryce: [00:00:31] Welcome back to another episode of Get Started Investing, a podcast where we attempt to answer the most common money and investing questions from our community. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome a massive congratulations on starting your investing journey. We do strongly recommend that you scroll up and start at episode one. Now, while we are licensed, we're not aware of your personal circumstances. All information on this show is for education and entertainment purposes. Any advice is general advice only. With that said, let's crack on. My name is Bryce and as always, joined by my equity buddy Wren. How are you? [00:01:01][30.1]

Alec: [00:01:02] I'm very good, Bryce. Excited for the 10th episode of our Under the Hood series. 10th, Hopefully not the last. I think this is as a series that we want to bring back because it has been a great opportunity for us to both build our skills when it comes to analysing ETFs, but then also get under the hood and understand what's going on with some of the most popular ETFs in Australia. And we are closing out with two of the most popular ETFs in the equity markets Community of Light, both related to the climate theme and ESG, global carbon and hydrogen. [00:01:39][37.2]

Bryce: [00:01:39] Yes, can't wait. Blair, in our last episode said that they said that there were 9000 listed ETFs globally, So this series could go on for a long time. [00:01:49][9.3]

Alec: [00:01:50] We talk about Blair as if he's not here, but he's actually sitting right next to us. [00:01:52][2.1]

Blair: [00:01:53] So hopefully there's not 9000 experts as well. [00:01:56][3.1]

Bryce: [00:02:02] But no, a massive thank you to Global X for supporting the Under the Hood series. As we said in episode one, it's something that we've been wanting to get off the ground for a while, for good reason, because so many people in the community ask us for the best ways to analyse ETFs and and we've covered sort of ten ways in which you can think about analysing ETFs, but there are so many more. But yes, we're in Global X Global Carbon ETF and the global X hydrogen ETF. Full disclosure, I do own the hydrogen ETF and we are answering the question today How do we invest in emerging asset classes and technologies with ETFs? [00:02:38][35.9]

Alec: [00:02:39] Hmm. [00:02:39][0.0]

Bryce: [00:02:40] It's a massive question and it's an exciting one to close out with. [00:02:42][2.7]

Alec: [00:02:43] Yeah, and I think there's no big emerging trend at the moment than the climate change trend and like take an emerging technology to confront climate change. I think we said it in a another episode that we recorded this morning where I honestly forget where we say these things. It might have been on social media, but the first generation of ESG and climate funds really seem to focus on screening things out, you know, like removing oil companies and stuff like that. But the next generation that we're seeing now, like these two, it's really about like the technologies that are coming that are trying to confront this issue and trying to make the world better. I guess you were at the forefront of, I guess, looking at these themes and deciding there's an ETF here. Talk to us about the process internally of saying this theme is emerging. We think we can make an ETF around it. [00:03:36][52.9]

Blair: [00:03:36] The ESG ideas, the negative screening, pull things out on a on a bias index and then playing a semantic towards in the case of this climate change decarbonisation, that whole move to do very different things. You know, I'll give you an example that makes it very obvious. So if a lot of the negative screen to straight equity funds that are out there pull out some of the mining companies where some of the decarbonisation funds that we have are built around mining the things you need and we talk about this in the past, in the past episode around building infrastructure for the future. So there are very different ways and I think ESG had a bit of its time in the sun there for a little while because of that, that sort of under allocation to things like resources, Tech had a really good run. Great. You know, this is performing Sweet spot. That's obviously changed. And we what we've seen is is that ESG probably isn't. Again, people I speak to in the market as popular or as like vital as it was before, and that's not to say they're going to be around for a long time. It's there's a lot of value in it, but it's very different than the playing, the thematic around. I think this is possibly I won't generalise around your audience, but these are easier digestible ideas to say, Hey, I like the idea of. As part of your portfolio. [00:04:58][82.5]

Alec: [00:04:59] I mean, to speak personally, the idea of negative screening and taking things out is all well and good, but we're at a stage that we need to say positive steps when it's the investment in things, not just wiping our hands away from things. And I think, you know, a lot of these funds offer that to investors, but the way that those two funds do it that we're talking about today do it in slightly different ways. So hydrogen can invests in companies. Yes. In the equity of companies, whereas the DIS carbon ETF j CO2 invest in carbon credits, which are sort of like an emerging asset class in and of themselves. [00:05:38][38.5]

Blair: [00:05:39] Yeah. And this is this gets to the heart of it really again about and we talked about it in the last episode non-Equity alternative assets style classes and we won't go down the rabbit hole again necessarily something we're going to bond but. [00:05:52][13.4]

Alec: [00:05:54] Let's do it. We know we've done that and there has already passed away. [00:05:58][3.6]

Blair: [00:05:59] You know, in the case of Easter, you got it. It's a theme. It's a theme that's based around hydrogen that then allocating to companies that are built out, you know, building as part of that theme. Great thing about carbon credits. You could you could technically build a company that is an ETF that is buying companies that are low carbon. They probably won't buy that they're certain in the US or transitioning to low carbon. Again, there was definitely of those in the US in the case of where we went for this, it's much more around, let's get access to the actual carbon credits. So the actual underlying and the problem for that is, is that's very difficult. Again, we spoke about this in the last episode. An ETF wrapper is that technology that opens the door for everyone to play in this space that we're doing this in particular. And it's always in a moment around the sort of things like synthetic and different ways. You know, these are branded but is actually by a futures contract over the carbon credits, mostly in things like Europe and the US and the UK. That then helps you track that index. You know, again, it is a passive ETF to make sure that you are in line with that and getting the outcome of that. But going to that point I just made earlier and there is going be some changes this ask the friends that I think are making some changes around how ETFs are prescribed, which is we should be great. They're sort of getting rid of that. You know what you might see if you log into whoever you CommSec now whatever you try with, you know if you went to go to now behind it it would say synthetic, which means it's not equity based, it's not physically back in name, in the name. Yeah. It has to be in the name. They're going to change that to I believe complex. So what. There's nothing wrong with a complex ETF, All it says and all it means for you as an investor, do more of your homework, make sure if that is going to be suitable for you and took this in the past again in previous episodes, what your expectations are now and how it's going to meet your outcomes. Because if it's not, if you if, if you buy thinking it's going to be X and it turns out to be Y, that's what maybe that's where it's going to come from. So hopefully that slight change in the naming conventions will help. Again, people. [00:08:04][125.1]

Bryce: [00:08:05] Off topic, but are they going to do that for any non-equity ETF? Is it going to be complex or. [00:08:09][4.7]

Blair: [00:08:10] I don't believe so. It depends on what depends on what it's like. A bond ETF probably won't be complex. Yeah, it depends on truly on the complexity of the actual underlying fund. [00:08:19][8.3]

Alec: [00:08:19] I imagine it's like what we spoke with David about with the physical gold is holds gold. It is what it is. But then there are other gold ETFs that like synthetically track the price of gold. [00:08:30][11.1]

Blair: [00:08:30] And is going to buy gold minus your equity. So it just depends. Again, whatever you as an investor need to decide what's right for you. It might be gold and you want to own the bullion. There's reasons for that. Or you might like I want to buy the gold bond is because you get more leverage to go up to you, up to you. Just knowing what that is, knowing what you're buying and what represents is going to be really important. [00:08:52][21.3]

Bryce: [00:08:52] So with emerging asset classes and using both of these ETFs as examples, how do you think about like time Horizon when it comes to these ETFs and putting them in portfolios? [00:09:03][11.1]

Blair: [00:09:04] I think we talked about it oh Episode 1. [00:09:08][3.3]

Alec: [00:09:08] To 2. [00:09:09][0.5]

Blair: [00:09:12] You've had me on to many, that. [00:09:13][1.0]

Alec: [00:09:13] Means more to me. [00:09:15][1.5]

Alec: [00:09:15] So episode two about Battery Tech. [00:09:18][2.3]

Blair: [00:09:18] About the S-curve. Yeah. So the S-curve is something I go to a lot because it helps you understand the time horizons that are going to be needed to capture what is, you know, hopefully your return for this and how much risk you're taking on. So in the case of something like hydrogen, it is a very nice technology. Certainly in the green hydrogen, blue hydrogen space, we're very much at the early days of that at a scalable, scalable level. So what you're doing is you're buying that Again, just know that is the case because there is potential that some of these companies are going to have more volatility up and downs. But as it moves up that curve and the growth starts to kick up and there's obviously a lot of research around the, you know, where it's going, whether it's from the. McKinsey's of the world. You know her? It's from that. Have these big numbers under it. You know the targets that makes us targets. You obviously get the return out of that. I understand that. That's not always gonna be possible. So that's I think that's what you talk about, time horizons. A lot of these, you know, emerging asset class, emerging technologies are going to have a long time horizons. Just know the risk return profile. You're taking it. Take your more risk to hopefully get more return. Yeah. And again, the second part of that is understand what you're buying as the structure of the ETF to that's going to help and always if you're concerned you really understand reach out to the issuer. They'll explain it to you. They make sure it's clear. If it's not clear on the website, whatever it is, call them up 17 out, whatever it is, and they'll help you out with that. [00:10:39][81.5]

Alec: [00:10:40] Well, let's stick on hydrogen because we want to go under the hood of that one. It is such a hot topic in the equity markets community. The potential I think it's particularly exciting for Australian investors because of the potential that Australia has to lead. It's not like a global technology that we're watching from afar. It's one that we can be on the forefront of. So let's get into it. And as we've done for the last nine episodes, we're going to do it for this one again. When we go under the hood of an ETF, we start with what it's trying to do, the purpose, how it's trying to do that, the index of trucks, then how much it costs to do that. So let's start with the purpose. We've kind of already covered it, but let's just make it explicit. What's the purpose of this ETF? [00:11:23][43.5]

Blair: [00:11:24] So again, this is where the headline of it. So tracking the sell Active Global Quadrant ESG index gives you a little bit, but probably excuse myself saying how many times is it under the hood? [00:11:35][10.9]

Alec: [00:11:35] Sorry, sorry about it. Let's go to the hood. That's branding for you. Yeah. [00:11:39][4.1]

Blair: [00:11:40] So the idea here is, yes, it's to invest in hydrogen generally hydrogen companies, but it's across the broader value chain. So we talked about this again with AC, DC and electric vehicles, lithium battery technology. This is around producers, electrolyser manufacturers, fuel cell companies, you know, even logistics firms that are built around this because this is going to be used for transport. And so a quarter of it. So it is truly value chain across the scope because that's going to be helpful then rather vague. And we again talked about this in a previous episode. When you want to think about thematic inevitability, you don't want to have three companies, four companies. It's too narrow. You want to be broad enough that the capturing what is truly the same here and that those encapsulation is going to help with that. [00:12:20][39.9]

Alec: [00:12:21] Yeah. [00:12:21][0.0]

Bryce: [00:12:22] So you mentioned the index, the selective global hydrogen ESG index, which brings us to phase 0.69%. Now, I just want to pause there because it is one of the more expensive ETFs that we've used as an example across the series. And people may have sort of identified that the more sort of niche, I guess the ETFs get in some instances, the more expensive they become. Is that true and why is that the case? [00:12:47][25.3]

Blair: [00:12:48] Yeah, is true and probably will remain being true. I think a couple of things that come to ETF pricing. One is certainly scale. So what you what you find is with the big guys in town who are lowering fees, they are the by far the largest ETFs on the on the market. And that scale then helps you, you know, be able to drive the price down, which is great for everyone. There is essentially no real losers other than the people are issuing hurts their revenue. But that's great for any of the investors. So that's awesome. But when it comes to thematics or the more nuanced on each one's, all those rules that are built into the ETF, an underlying index that takes a lot more work, more work at index level, more work at the trading level, more work at the portfolio manager level. So that inherently comes with higher fees. Again, there is a possibility that if one of these more thematic ETFs becomes huge, there is a chance that they can cut fees. But you know, you generally going to say high fees across the mix and you would the way. [00:13:45][57.8]

Bryce: [00:13:46] I look at it, it's just a slight premium to get access to something that would otherwise be quite difficult to get access. [00:13:51][5.5]

Alec: [00:13:51] To. [00:13:51][0.0]

Blair: [00:13:52] Yeah, and we talked about this again in a previous episode. A lot of these companies you're probably unlikely to have heard of anyway. So it's again building a portfolio and diversified portfolio of companies that gives you access to the thing that someone's done the work to figure that out. Yeah, and you might pay a premium for that. But you know, we're transparent every year. If you want to buy those companies yourself, you can. It's on the website. Yeah, but we find most people will like that. Well, I'm happy to pay because that's going to change is going to rebalance other companies going to come along, someone else doing the work for me. [00:14:20][28.2]

Bryce: [00:14:21] And then then we'll just close out with performance. As I said, I do own this ETF, so I'm feeling it. One with the one year return is down 26.8%. Tough year for hydrogen. [00:14:32][10.9]

Alec: [00:14:33] Tough year for hydrogen. Yeah, I imagine that's not surprising for these emerging asset classes. Like the volatility is hot. [00:14:42][9.3]

Blair: [00:14:42] It's much higher. Yeah, this is we talk about this on a time horizon. It is long term. You need to understand the risks. The risk is that there is going to more volatility. And to that, if you buy it, that you expect to be there. Guess where that period is ten, 15, whatever it. It's up to you. Yeah, because that's, you know, that's where the pay off kicks in in the long term. Not. Not in the short term. [00:15:04][21.8]

Alec: [00:15:05] Yeah. And I think, like, you know, last episode we were speaking about a Bond ETF. This episode was speaking about a hydrogen ETF and are two things that look very similar in your brokerage account. And if you buy both of them, they appear as the same you know, they appear the same on your brokerage statement, just different lines. But they act and should be invested in very differently. [00:15:27][22.2]

Blair: [00:15:27] Hundred percent, Yeah. [00:15:28][0.5]

Bryce: [00:15:29] All right. Well, let's have a look at geography sectors and top holdings. And where are we at? [00:15:33][3.7]

Alec: [00:15:33] Yeah, geography can surprise me. And, you know, maybe it's just because I'm a proud Australian. But no, Australia in this ETF, we've got the US leading the charge. That has been a recurring theme for a lot of these ETFs. Not surprising given how large the US market is, but about a third of the ETF is in the US 15% in South Korea. Britain. Norway. Taiwan. Rounding out the top five. But where's Australia? [00:16:00][27.2]

Blair: [00:16:01] Is this? This is again, it's a it's a nascent technology. It's not. What are we what are we really good at? We're really good at pulling things out of the ground that we have a huge abundance of. So it's not really in that space. I know there's a couple of kind of anecdotal news stories that are happening around the edges that Australia is one of the ones get into this business and can lead the world in it possibly, but we're way, way behind. We're behind in a lot of things in terms of decarbonisation. We really are. This is just another one of them. [00:16:30][29.9]

Alec: [00:16:31] You could have just turned around to me and said, Where are the Australian listed hydrogen companies? [00:16:34][3.3]

Alec: [00:16:35] Yeah. [00:16:35][0.0]

Blair: [00:16:35] That's the, that's the answer. But, but the real answer is, is that Australians aren't. You think about electric vehicles, we're not investing in infrastructure. The one good area we kill it out is rooftop solar. We are the world. That's the lowest cost, you know, probably globally. But a lot of those other areas we just we aren't. Yeah. Swinging as a technology country for the fences. [00:16:55][19.3]

Alec: [00:16:55] Yeah we have a lot of sunlight which is positive for green hydrogen if we can swing for the fences and this. [00:17:01][5.6]

Alec: [00:17:01] Is one of the. [00:17:01][0.3]

Bryce: [00:17:01] Things every time we have conversations about hydrogen, it's always, Oh, Australia has such potential. [00:17:05][3.7]

Alec: [00:17:06] It's like, come on, get going. Yeah. Anyway, we'll try to try to solve that. Yeah. [00:17:13][6.7]

Blair: [00:17:13] So definitely for much. [00:17:14][1.5]

Alec: [00:17:15] And I think. [00:17:15][0.4]

Alec: [00:17:16] There would probably be some people listening who are thinking Fortescue, Future Industries, because you know, Twiggy Forrest has been front and centre of this hydrogen debate and he's investing a lot of Fortescue's, well, some of Fortescue's money into hydrogen. And so that would be wondering why doesn't Fortescue fit in this. I imagine there's a revenue stream. [00:17:38][22.3]

Blair: [00:17:39] Is always it's always like what's the business in general trying to do where it is? I'd say 100% of Fortescue's revenue come. [00:17:47][8.3]

Alec: [00:17:47] From. [00:17:47][0.0]

Blair: [00:17:48] Not on a little nickel like yeah, this is not say that they're not, he's not doing a thing great. He's obviously, you know, very much environmental focussed and it's wonderful, but that doesn't mean it's an investable company in an ETF that is built around hydrogen. So if he was to say spin that out, there was a bunch of different revenue that came from those that and he started to work on it different story but not as not as Fortescue in in and of itself. [00:18:12][23.3]

Alec: [00:18:12] Yeah yeah. [00:18:13][0.6]

Bryce: [00:18:13] Well let's take a look at the top ten holdings. Fortescue is obviously not in there, but Blake, can you talk us. [00:18:18][4.9]

Alec: [00:18:18] Through what what. [00:18:19][0.9]

Bryce: [00:18:19] Perhaps top three. [00:18:20][0.7]

Blair: [00:18:21] The two most well known companies in this space? Again, US based technological drilling companies blend and plug power. They're essentially the world's leaders in this space. You might very talk about them on podcast podcasts in the past, but at the forefront of technological advancement around hydrogen fuel cells are in distribution, production, these sorts of things. I think these guys are up there. If you really go through, if you probably scan through that top ten, I think it says fuel cell in about three or four of them in their name. Yeah. So you can see where this is going in at. The purpose is essentially fuel cells, somewhat battery life in terms of how they're, you know, obviously to pump fuel in. But that's that's the again, the forefront of this. But, you know, with this being a focus on blue and green hydrogen, you know, you don't want to the black and brown, which is, you know, actually just as bad for the economy and and the sorry the the the quad than than it is. So you want to focus on the good ones. And this is this is where some of these top ten are really playing in that space. [00:19:16][55.7]

Alec: [00:19:17] Yeah. So we've used the term blue, green, brown hydrogen just a few times. Just for clarity, green hydrogen is made from renewable energy. Blue hydrogen is made from natural gas, and brown or black hydrogen is made from coal. [00:19:32][15.4]

Blair: [00:19:33] Fossil fuels, Fossil fuels. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the purpose of all this, again, we talk about decarbonisation idea is you want to decarbonise if you're using a fossil fuel to bring in another fuel, that sort of negates the whole purpose. [00:19:45][12.7]

Bryce: [00:19:47] So you mentioned Bloom Energy and plug power between the two of them. They make up almost 20% of of the ATF. Some other big names in there. Ballard Power Fuelcell Energy, as you said. Liquid, which has appeared in a couple of eighths, I think it. [00:20:01][13.8]

Alec: [00:20:01] Was in the euro because the. [00:20:02][0.9]

Bryce: [00:20:02] Euro stocks. [00:20:02][0.3]

Alec: [00:20:03] Yeah, yeah. [00:20:03][0.3]

Blair: [00:20:03] So this company is getting started to get some traction. But again, as we talked about from the return profile, they're going to be volatile. They going to be volatile because they're they've got a bunch of different inputs. One of those is energy prices globally. And as we've seen recently, energy prices have come off. We've seen OPEC now have to essentially cut production to increase their oil price. So this is at the whim of energy prices for. So this is a major import to this type of industry. If I give you an example, right, if we can somehow get wind and solar down to essentially not very close to it, the ability for hydrogen to drive, you know, decarbonisation gains is going to be lower. Same for nuclear, these sorts of things. But the purpose of this combination idea and some of these companies in this space obviously, is we all know that it's not always struck me one thing that's going to solve this problem. Everyone's all the things going to play a role in some mix. [00:20:56][52.8]

Alec: [00:20:56] Yeah, well, and hydrogen also is a way to transport energy through space and time. Like if you get renewables down to almost free, the hydrogen still plays a role in transporting it to where you can't generate at all anyway beside the point. [00:21:12][15.3]

Alec: [00:21:14] So Blair. [00:21:14][0.2]

Bryce: [00:21:15] For a for an ETF like this or for ETFs, sort of taking it back to the to the to the start that give us access to emerging trends and industries, what role do they play in our portfolio? How would you think about them? [00:21:26][11.7]

Blair: [00:21:27] Yeah, and this goes really back to that we talked about in the last episode called Satellite as a as a function of gas allocation. I hope people don't turn it off and all gas allocation because it isn't the most exciting topic, but it's so it's so import, it's so important and it is the satellites because you're unlikely to you think about how you build a portfolio, you know allocate 40% like you have. Rice I'm getting back to hydrogen because you're going to get this volatility. So it is likely to be a satellite. So what we commonly see, again, not advice, it's up to you how you would allocate to the portfolio if these can sit, you know, between sort of two and 5% in a portfolio as your sort of, you know, sort of shot to some of these areas. Now what'll happen is if they have really strong growth that will grow. How you rebalance again is an input for it's up to you. But that's, that's commonly what we're doing at the base level is where remember where rebalancing these portfolio is back. So it is something to think about as well. [00:22:23][55.7]

Alec: [00:22:23] Yeah, And I think the important thing with something, you know, we're talking about emerging trends here, carbon credits as well, it's like you could be 100% right on the thesis, but if regulations change or other technology changes, all of a sudden the thesis changes out from under you. And so it's like, yeah, it just it's not an active ETF, but you just have to be a little bit more active in keeping an eye on what's going on in the sector as opposed to some of the the other themes or even just some of the core holdings where you can sort of dollar cost average into the S&P 500 and not really track how those 500 companies are doing day to day. That's exactly. [00:23:02][39.0]

Blair: [00:23:02] Right. So it's it's long term. It's not also long term, but it's not sit and forget. It's not bottom drawer like you need to be participating in and understanding what you're investing in. That doesn't mean on a bad month sell out necessarily. It just means we keep reviewing these these parts of the satellite because they are going to be more high risk, higher return. They might not be suitable for you in two years time. They might still be might want to top that, I don't know. But like you just need that. You need to keep an eye on them. [00:23:28][25.4]

Alec: [00:23:28] Who knows? In 60 years when prices are retiring, hydrogen could be the main way that. [00:23:33][4.5]

Alec: [00:23:33] We. [00:23:33][0.0]

Alec: [00:23:34] Consume fuel. And it's. [00:23:35][1.0]

Alec: [00:23:35] Coal. That's it. That's. Hey, just like oil. [00:23:38][2.1]

Bryce: [00:23:38] I've just run the numbers. And at current market valuation, it only makes up 0.1.05 7% of my portfolio. So I'm sweet. [00:23:48][10.1]

Alec: [00:23:50] Listening to my. [00:23:50][0.5]

Blair: [00:23:51] Mum devices. [00:23:51][0.2]

Bryce: [00:23:52] But if they go so very, very much in my in my satellite approach, but we set out at the top to answer the question how do we invest in emerging asset classes and technologies? And it's time and time again we we've demonstrated that through ETFs. You get access to emerging asset classes, technologies and also some of your more traditional non equity asset classes like we spoke about with in Episode nine. But that does bring us to the end of our Under the Hood series with Global X. It's been an absolutely awesome ten part series. Thank you so much to Global X for supporting us, for providing the research teams, for providing the experts to come on the shows. CORNISH Blair Jess, David, it's been awesome. You guys have been super helpful and super informative. And I really do hope that over the ten episodes, we've been able to help answer a lot of the big questions when it comes to analysing ETFs. So, Blair, thank you so much. Check out Global X on their website, Global X Etsy.com dot AEW. They have over 30 targeted products globally, over a million clients in nine. In five countries, and as I said, really pride themselves on their industry leading research team and global access that they have plenty of information and resources available on their website as as well as on our website. We've been able to throughout the series, push some of the white papers. So that's that's a wrap. BLAIR Thank you so much. [00:25:15][82.8]

Blair: [00:25:15] I was it was awesome, guys. Really appreciate it. [00:25:17][2.3]

Alec: [00:25:18] Thanks. BLAIR We'll have to get you back to the other 8990. [00:25:20][2.1]

Bryce: [00:25:23] You have been listening to an equity based media production in the spirit of Reconciliation Equity Rates. Media acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This podcast is intended for education and entertainment purposes. Any advice is general advice only and has not taken into account your personal financial circumstances, needs or objectives before acting on general advice. You should consider if it is relevant to your needs and read the relevant product disclosure statement. And if you're unsure, please speak to a financial professional. The hosts of this podcast and their guests may have positions in the companies mentioned. Equity Markets Media operates under the Australian Financial Services licence. 540697. [00:25:23][0.0]

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