Under the Hood | How do you manage ETF overlap?

Bryce: [00:00:31] Welcome to another episode of Get Started Investing, a podcast where we attempt to answer the most common money and investing questions from the community to help us all become better investors. Now, if you're joining us for the very first time, a massive welcome. Congratulations for starting the journey of investing. We strongly recommend that you do so Call up and started episode one. Now, while we are licensed, we're not aware of your personal circumstances. All information on this show is for education and entertainment purposes. Any advice is general advice only. But with that said, I'm excited for this one. Let's crack on. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How are you?

Alec: [00:01:04] I'm very good, Bryce. You stole my line. I, too, am excited. And the reason that I'm excited is because a really common phrase that we hear in our Facebook discussion group and just across the equity markets community is ETF overlap. And I think a lot of people that are new to investing won't be familiar with that term. And I think people that are more into investing and I include myself in this, don't quite have their heads around how to measure ETF overlap when it's a problem, how we should think about it with our own portfolios. 

Bryce: [00:01:40] Yeah, as I said, it's actually a question that we get heaps from our community and we did get one this week that I want to play now. 

EM Community: [00:01:45] Hey, equity mates. So I got pretty excited when I first started investing and I bought quite a few indexes, but I didn't check if there was overlap underneath. So now I'm kind of thinking I should probably do some due diligence, maybe backtrack a bit and check the overlap before I go any further, but I don't really know where to start. So what do you suggest? 

Alec: [00:02:07] And so luckily, Bryce, we're not going to figure that out. We've got a third host, an expert here to help us get our heads around it. 

Bryce: [00:02:14] It is our pleasure to welcome back from global ETFs. Blair Hannon, Head of investment strategy. Blair, welcome. 

Blair: [00:02:20] Thank you. I'm not scripted, so I can't steal your lines, so. it's great to be back. 

Bryce: [00:02:25] Yeah. So look, this is part seven of our Under the Hood series with Global X ETFs. We've covered what's in a name. We've covered looking at if there's ever enough to go into an ETF index, tracking checking holdings, using ETFs to build global portfolios when we've covered so much and there's still so much to come, and we're really building a toolkit of skills when it comes to analysing ETFs. And as you said, today's episode is a monster because it's a question that often pops up. Should I even care about overlap? What is it? How do I measure it? We're going to unpack it all today. Today is thanks to Global X, who really pride themselves on their industry leading research team. As you would have heard throughout this series, we've had so many awesome experts joining us sharing their industry knowledge when it comes to ETFs. So thank you to Global X for supporting this episode. Now we're going under the hood today with the global X Copper Miners ETF ticket is wire and the global X Green metal miners ETF and and having the ticker for that is GMTL. And Ren having a look at whether or not there's overlap there. But let's start at the top, which is what on earth overlaps.

Blair: [00:03:37] It's a bit of a new idea because it's come it's come from essentially come from it's in, it's in in a way because what are you getting when you buy an ETF, getting a basket of stocks? So if you're buying a bunch of stocks, you know, let's think we were 20 years ago, probably just before that, when most portfolios were built of just stocks, it was pretty clean. It was pretty easy. You knew if you bought BHP and you bought Rio, you're going to have a level of overlap in terms of iron ore. You're going to be exposed these days. What you're getting, if you're buying two ETFs, you know, I'll just love the name of this show, guys, but you need to go under the hood To find out. If you've got any of that and what is overlap. Again, it's just when you've basically got same companies to Paris, possibly two different ETFs. So you're essentially doubling up in terms of what your exposure is. And what this comes down to is most of the time it's inadvertent. It's not something you really probably planned to do, but it is going to then change two things. You know, change your temporary profile as it change the risk profile, because, you know, that's the core of the structure in the core of your strategy, core everything you do around investing, you need to know what those things are. You know, take a good look at yourself to the risk you want to take on a return you want to try to get. But if you start to then have a bunch of different overlap in your portfolio of stocks that you don't think you'd have, well then what you expect, what you what your outcomes are. I give me your expectations. 

Alec: [00:05:01] So I think the classic example of ETF overlap really emerges from America, which is the NASDAQ 100 ETF tracks, the biggest 100 stocks on the NASDAQ and then the S&P 500 tracks, the 500 biggest listed companies in America. Yeah, but the top of those ETFs are exactly the same companies Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Alphabet, Meta. And then if you buy an all world index as well, you think you diversified with three ETFs. You've got exactly the same companies sitting at the top of that as well. 

Blair: [00:05:33] Bang on. It's bang on.

Bryce: [00:05:35] Does overlap just apply to company level? If someone was to say I'm going to go out and find I'm really interested in batteries and lithium, which we spoke about in episode two and then they get a number of ETFs that have different holdings but follow the same thematic. Would you say that there's overlap there? Like is there or is that just too much concentration of exposure? 

Blair: [00:05:58] It is, and that's what it is. It's a concentration of portfolio. You can say the same thing if you own space, maybe 100, for example. I don't know how many of your listeners are into Bond ETF, so I mean, not that many, but if you do, you're probably going to if you own a what's called a US investment grade ETF, you're probably going to get a bunch of those same companies from different parts of the of the of have a you know one's debt ones equity but you're going to have overlap. Yeah and that's all in that that's not a really big deal I think to your point on the thematic side. Yeah. So if you go and buy a lithium battery tech ETF, as we talked about in episode two and then go and buy an electric vehicles ETF, it's a no brainer. You're going to have overlap. You would think that. But again, it's going to come from the companies. If you're looking at it under the hood of these, it's because as every company has, they have, you know, an idiosyncratic fit. So stock specific risk is coming in that and ETFs help me diversify that out. But if you're then doing a bunch of overlap, well, then you're actually, you know, going back in and becoming more granular, which is not what you're trying to do.

Alec: [00:07:05] Yeah. So like with the example you gave around bonds and stocks, if the biggest holding is apple equity and then in the bond ETF, the biggest holding is Apple debt and Apple goes bankrupt and can't pay any of its bondholders or its shareholders back, you're exposed to the same sorts of risk. 

Blair: [00:07:24] And essentially because we're not going to go into the depths of the credit structure.

Alec: [00:07:29] no, no business.

Blair: [00:07:31] To that point, you know, you're at risk of that particular business defaulting. And it's just being and this is the point, right? It's being aware and understanding that risk. For some reason you might want to do that. There might be a valid reason for that. But I think you look at the Nasdaq for a couple of hundred, and that's a good example. They have they have very different return profiles over long term because, yes, that you do get that overlap at the top, but maybe you're comfortable with that knowing that they're not being financials, for example, in the Nasdaq, that you're going to get an upside as on tech and you're not going to get in the broader industrial financial space. So so I'm not saying it's a terrible thing. It's just knowing what you're in for. 

Alec: [00:08:11] I would even go a step further and say, like, overlap isn't a dirty word. It's often a good thing. It's like if I truly believe in a theme and I want more concentrated exposure and I do that knowingly, great. Like that's a it's a really useful way to use to have a thematic ETF complement index ETF. And the classic example of the last decade is if I want more exposure to a tech theme, I could maybe have my S&P 500 in my core portfolio, which has some tech names, but then I double down on like a fang plus ten concentrated tech names to give me more tech because I want. 

Blair: [00:08:48] That's just the need that is equities. Right? And this is about portfolio construction course a lot. You know this is pretty basic obviously stuff in general but this is where overlap happens. And so you've got these cores, you've got ASX 200, for example, you've got SPF 100, and then you want to build around the edges because they are the things you believe in, well then, hey, what's going to happen is, is you're going to have overlap. But to your point, it might be intentional overlap and you know that it always come back to what are your expectations around what you've got and then what are the outcomes that you actually get. As long as they align, then you're okay. It's where it's inadvertent and you don't know that that's where you get caught. 

Bryce: [00:09:26] Hmm. So it's without downloading Excel spreadsheets and comparing it is a bit difficult. You know, you can probably just compare top ten holdings is probably the easiest way you can do it. Yeah, just how do we measure it? What should we be looking for? 

Blair: [00:09:43] Look, if any of your listeners out there are tech focussed, you know, this is, this is a great it'd be a great tool to to be out of debt you know have a have the ability to directly download every ETF in Australia, for example, and then let them back up and then you build a matrix. Now we're lucky that we that is reasonably easy for us. So for, for the a lot of the and by all means, reach out to us, let us know we've got a matrix that tells. 

Bryce: [00:10:06] You be careful what you wish for. 

Blair: [00:10:11] I'm all for that. Part of our job is to, you know, be a service provider. We want to help, but we've got to make sure to say, hey, if you're going to buy this ETF, investing in the thematic space mostly, and then what's the what is potential overlap or what's the, you know, that you would get for another ETF? 

Alec: [00:10:26] And what was your email? 

Blair: [00:10:29] And so that that's a good little resource you could use. And the problem is, I think for a lot of self-directed investors, retail investors, the tools that you're going to want to be able to grab a hold of are just probably unattainable from a cost perspective. You're not going want to go and get a Bloomberg terminal. Yeah, that's not going to happen. Morningstar might be a little bit more attainable. They do have some good tools in there that you might be able to use. I know the advisor by Swann has a thing called x ray, which is good. You can go a lot deeper. But, you know, there's no real easy tools. So I think to your point, and it's again, it's harder with semantics because a lot of them are equal. Again, these rules are nuanced around how they work. So you can't just look at the top ten. But a lot of the time when you talk about semantics, the general themes that tell you a fair bit. Yeah, it's going to tell you a big chunk of what you're looking for. It's probably the broader base ETFs where if you go and buy an Aussie large cap ETF and then go and buy an ASX 200 ETF, like yeah, you must look at the type tackling the large cap. So again it's just being aware of what the places that part of the portfolio is going to sit in. 

Alec: [00:11:38] Well let's get practical because we've pulled two ETFs from the global X range that sound similar or sound like they have overlap. So Global X Copper Mine is an ETF and then Global X Grain Metal Miners ETF, both mining and then copper is critical for the renewable energy transition. Ironically enough, copper actually turns green over time as it oxidises. So it is literally a green metal. So I guess the question is surely there's some overlap here. Like, is there some overlap here? 

Blair: [00:12:13] Yes. Yes. Well, the green metals is just part of a broader decarbonisation kind of structure that we have here that we know, we've broad a bunch of different ETFs that follow that theme in general. What we sort of got a lot of feedback on for investors is, look, it's great. That's a lot of people for certain things, but it's very subjective in terms of what comes out in a negative screen, what comes out. So this is a way to invest on this decarbonisation program, but do it in more thematic way. The unfortunate thing is most ESG take out mining, but it's inevitable, right? Like if we want to build the infrastructure, we're going to move towards this future. There's no other way around this. This is going to have to happen in terms to bring this stuff out. So Dancy, actual question. The actual holdings in a green metal ETF are going to include copper. It's going to include lithium, nickel, zinc, things like cobalt, manganese. So all these sort of materials that are vital for either battery technology or for renewable infrastructure needs. So, yes, copper is part of that and this is where you can looking under the hood helps because what you can do is you can have a look and go, well, what are the what are the copper miners that are going to being green metals that encapsulate what we're going to be in copper mining is at the same time, I think the difference is what and this is a bit more a strategy around it, more business strategy around what type of investors do we have in Australia. What we found is, is the green metals is a solution for those who are like, Look, I'm happy to get the whole basket. Yeah, the whole thing. And I don't necessarily want to go down and invest in those particular areas individually. Copper is just one of those ones where separately to that it's very topical right now. We've seen a bunch of M&A in the space, in particular BHP in Australia buying Oz Minerals, the ability to buy direct copper mines that we used to be able to do ten or 15 years ago is harder. Yeah, still available, but it's harder, especially with the really low cost miners. So we're already global now, mostly, mostly based out of areas like Canada, a little bit Australia, but focusing to the South America. Again, this is a real easy solution for someone who wants in particular that Michiel said. Yes, it's all part of take up to corporatisation, but not as not. So you have to go a broad option or you got a specific more narrow option automatics. And to have that sort of scope, think about how you apply that. 

Bryce: [00:14:38] And as we said, it's not a bad thing like you might have. You say you take the broad option, you take green metals, I want to encapsulate everything. But then of all of the metals as well, I could go lithium or I could go copper and I want to double down on copper. Not nothing wrong with actually owning both at all and having that overlap, knowing that you want it. Definitely. Do you want to double down? Yeah. 

Blair: [00:14:58] And again, it's just understanding what your expectations are out of doing that, saying what overlap looks like and then make sure that how that fits in your total portfolio. Yeah, as long as you're aware of that, you're good to go. 

Alec: [00:15:10] Yeah, I guess I was actually surprised that there wasn't more overlap. So I've just had a look at the top five holdings in the copper ETF and only two of them are in the Green Metals ETF. 

Blair: [00:15:21] This is where it's going to be a little bit interesting around. And again, we're going a little bit deep on the nuance of. Matic, ETFs and index methodology. So I'm sure there's a bunch of readers out there who like to look at index methodology documents all the time. They are written by for people to not read. People who write these things. It takes time to figure out what you're actually getting. There's going to be different rules. Like most of these ETFs are rules based. So whether that's so the agreement is, for example, is going to cap the amount of companies for certain metals at, say, ten, for example, it's going to cap the amount of weighting each company. So again, there's gonna be rules. And the same thing is said for, for the copper, you're going to be capped and there's going to be levels of revenue purely out of copper. So in the case of what we're seeing right now as an example, BHP doesn't have as it own a portfolio in writing yet, but it will it has about 25% copper as an example. Rio has circa 15 abjectly just done a beta work up in Mongolia, being a major partner in Turquoise Hill out of Canada, that likely go up. But they're not in they're not in an ETF. So again, it's just it's just the nuance of how these ETFs work. For some people, it's great that I want to go deep and people are like, you know what? It doesn't matter because what I'm buying is copper. Instead of buying one company in Australia and the Australia market, I'm buying the broader same. You want to get the outcome of that. So yes, you're going to I think go back to your point there, look under the hood, finding overlap, understanding where some come with some companies in a mix and move in the case of materials because we have diversified miners, some are going to have to be revenue pure, some of them knowing what that is. There's a little bit of work to do. It's not just buying hope, but which is fine. Fun to that as well. But but if you want to go deep, but you can really go

Bryce: [00:17:14] I did a big exercise. I don't know if you did, Ren, but before we just go into the hood of the green metal miners, a big exercise towards the end of last year overlaps my portfolio. Yeah, Consolidated. I found that I had a perfectly balanced portfolio. I'm surprised you're laughing at that. Now, I got rid of some I had obviously the US like skews a lot of stuff and so if you Yeah I just consolidated a fair chunk of Yeah. 

Blair: [00:17:43] What you just don't get and I don't know I don't know what your portfolio site but you know what to be like. Turns out like I thought it was an apple, 40% Microsoft all the top for it like that. That's what you don't want. And so this is again this is the problem and I'm, I'll go to this I've, I said I used to be in my olden days a financial advisor. What happens when you're building portfolios is you just inherently add things in. Yeah. You couple of This. 

Alec: [00:18:09] And way too Many lines of my brokerage account. 

Blair: [00:18:12] So what happens is and it does sometimes get out of hand so you're like oh now I've got 15 lines of, of holdings and their ETF, so underlying might be 30,000 stocks. So that's the problem is we are built to like a crop that is great right now in a box some copper but then you don't actually look and go how much exposure I actually have to copper already. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where the work needs to be done.

Alec: [00:18:34] Yeah. I'm such a sucker for this. And because we get to sit in a studio and speak to experts like yourself and hear about all these amazing, famous or interesting companies, it really just adds up. 

Bryce: [00:18:45] Ren's actively trading back. Yeah, it's a good point you just raised there. I've never actually gone. How much do I own if this already when I really think about buying a house I just I just love this thing I'm going to buy. But I never actually do a lot of the due diligence on. I already own this suite of ETFs. I should have a look under there and well. 

Alec: [00:19:09] That feels like a perfect segue way to say, How would you do that? And you would do that by going under the hood. 

Bryce: [00:19:15] Absolutely. So a guy under the hood, we won't go. Both would just go. The green metal miners, the purpose of which is to provide exposure to global companies which produce, as has already said, critical metals for clean energy infrastructure and technologies, and including lithium, copper, nickel, cobalt, all the the materials that we've been speaking about a lot on the show of recent times. 

Alec: [00:19:38] Yeah. Now the index it tracks is the B I T A global green energy metals index. Now I've never heard of it before, but if we think back to one of our earlier episodes where we spoke about how this index is actually made, I assume that BITA is an index provider.

Blair: [00:19:58] Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, you know, you've heard the ones you already know about S&P. 

Alec: [00:20:03] Yeah. So active has come up a few times. 

Blair: [00:20:05] They're really big in thematic space BITA new R and we're working with them closely on this one. And this goes back to that point that we made in episode two, if I recall, where you can buy ones off the shelf, we can work with the index provider. This one, we work with them to make sure we got what we thought was right for Australian investors. Yeah, so I think that's always a powerful thing if we can help with that. To make it clear though, they run the index, we don't then have any such. I'm not talking about particular stocks per se. It's the rules around the index that you can sort of say, hey, this might fit better. 

Alec: [00:20:37] Yeah. Yeah. 

Blair: [00:20:37] The Australian audience. 

Alec: [00:20:38] Yeah. And then I assume they then go and try and get an American index ETF provider and a Dutch ETF provider that's on the show. Yeah, you can sell. 

Blair: [00:20:47] It to whoever else they like. You know, hopefully not in Australia, but it's not the jurisdiction. Go for it.

Alec: [00:20:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now the fees for this one 0.69%, 69 basis points. But when we look at the performance this is a pretty new ETF. It only launched late last year. 

Blair: [00:21:05] So late last year or late 2020. To go back to that point, we wanted to launch a bunch of different ways to play decarbonisation. This is just a way, this is the broad way, if you wanna be more specific again, copper, we've got uranium, we've got a bit of a nuanced one in carbon credit, so there's like a bunch of ways you can do it.

Alec: [00:21:25] Hydrogen which was a big in.

Blair: [00:21:27] DC obviously as well around so.

Bryce: [00:21:30] Ren's buying. 

Blair: [00:21:35] But again it's it's about choice for this idea, this sort of general idea around this thematic and decarbonisation. This is one of them that might suit depending on what type of mess you are. 

Alec: [00:21:47] Now when we look under the hood, we like to look at the top holdings and if we look geographically, I think, Bryce, you said this is an America centric or maybe Blair you said it, someone said something about America. It still is third biggest in the ETF, so it still gets on the podium. Second place you love to say it. Australia Yeah, we always love to dig stuff out of the ground, so we shouldn't be surprised. But in China, 40% or just shy 40% of the ETF is Chinese companies. 

Bryce: [00:22:15] Well they're massive in the central minerals and lithium rare earth. 

Blair: [00:22:20] Yeah, certainly. I think the interesting part about China is it's obviously some people don't necessarily like to invest in China against your coal. And I'm not judging or saying anything far wrong but they are they they have gone a long way, basically, if not the world, I'd say very close to it in clean technology. Yeah it's and that's not a I don't think it's a secret. So they're down the path. They're, you know, really good at of any fracturing by far the world later again reverse manufacturing and production it's where they that's where they play so. 

Alec: [00:22:52] They don't dominate markets like there are not not so much wind turbines that's Europe still strong there but solar panels like they're so strong. Yeah. Electric vehicles by day is just come out of here, not out of nowhere. But, you know, they've overtaken Tesla. Yeah. Anyway, this isn't about China, but yeah. 

Blair: [00:23:09] It's a little bit because again, like the geographies here is, is important and it's one of those ones where the breakdown if you look at it yeah, China is going to play a large role in the outcome. 

Alec: [00:23:21] Yeah. And good luck trying to go to mainland Chinese stock exchanges and buy those stocks directly. As an Australian investor, I would say it's not possible. 

Blair: [00:23:29] Most of these are running through Hong Kong because it's like Asia is a very difficult for foreign investors to know that or they haven't. They don't know. And they tried. They've learned that they can't do it quickly. 

Alec: [00:23:41] So let's get through the top holdings. Bryce, Albemarle Corp heard of it?

Bryce: [00:23:50] I Haven't heard of it. I imagine it's a green metal miner. I've heard of the second one, South32, which was a spinoff of BHP many years ago. Yeah, but Blair The top holding Albemarle. 

Blair: [00:24:02] Yeah. So that's a that, that's a lithium miner. Yeah. Out of the US. And I'll tell you this is not better now because they've just lobbed a bid and got denied by law in town here in Australia. 

Alec: [00:24:13] Oh that's them. Okay 

Blair: [00:24:17] So you could be one of, if not one of the biggest. 

Alec: [00:24:21] Yeah, right. Okay. Most names I'm not familiar with here. Eve Energy. A few. China is no such thing. 

Blair: [00:24:30] The thing is, is again, we're going down the list here just for those who aren't following on line. But again, lithium. First Quantum is copper and will be things like aluminium. Sumitomo is a broad based one, but I do I do a bunch of different diversified metals. There's even some like copper recyclers in here. So it's again, it's the whole mentality around green metals.

Alec: [00:24:52] Is Norsk Hydro green Aluminium if I got that right. Yeah it is, That's an interesting company. 

Blair: [00:24:59] So there's that, there's some obviously more Nordic based ones who are very much in that path. It's interesting because, you know, talk about lithium and EVs, the Nordics are by far like everyone else like a huge amount of hydro that Green energy's massive. So they flow through is great. And the incentives there are really powerful. So you can look at them as a bit of a case test case for the rest of the world. 

Alec: [00:25:18] And all of the holdings for all of these ETFs are on the ETF issuer's website. In this case it's global X ETFs dot com that I you. But yeah with ETFs you can really look under the hood and especially when there's a lot of companies that we can then go on to further research on it. It's important to do that.

Bryce: [00:25:36] Yeah, well I love this top ten. I only heard of one, but obviously you're getting great exposure to some of the big miners in the space. So, yeah. 

Blair: [00:25:44] That's the power, isn't it? 

Bryce: [00:25:45] Yeah. 

Blair: [00:25:46] The fact that you only know one for me is better. Yes, definitely. Yeah. Well, ten. 

Bryce: [00:25:50] Yeah, for sure. 

Blair: [00:25:51] I know you've, we talked about in a previous episode around the Owning Fang and I suspect you own all, you know, all of those what they do reasonably intimately to the back, the fact that you don't know any of them or, you know, one and it happens to be south32 only probably because it came out of BHP. I'm not judging you for your mining history knowledge. 

Bryce: [00:26:08] Test me, test me. 

Blair: [00:26:10] But that's the point, is that you're getting access to companies that might really be at the forefront of these types of industries, not in front of 500%.

Bryce: [00:26:17] I mean, it just comes down to a circle of competence as well. Like it's not within my competence to go and analyse a bunch of mining companies in all of these different areas and make a decision on what I reckon would be the top ten. But I understand the global thematic of green mining and the importance of the materials that these companies are doing. So this is just the best way to get access to that and not. 

Blair: [00:26:39] Have to worry. I know either. You know, I remember when we got this particular one, I went through every single one and, you know, looked at the reports and investor presentations. There's some really interesting stuff going on out there you probably not aware of. And again, if you want to go and do that and figure it out, then that's that. That's the sliver that you probably start with. Then you have to go look, financials if you want to do your own research or the other alternative is ETFs obviously solve a part of that problem. 

Alec: [00:27:05] Yeah, someone asked our Facebook group ages ago like, does anyone use ETF holdings to go in and do individual stock research? Like go for it? But geez, there's a lot out there and good luck then going to buy, you know, some of these Chinese. It is like the index provider has done a lot of the work to like narrow your investment universe if you're interested in green metals. How many holdings in this ETF. 

Blair: [00:27:31] I think is 40 and it's one that.

Alec: [00:27:34] Like they've refined the world to 40 names for you to go on research. So. 

Blair: [00:27:38] Exactly. And it's also going back to the rules where the rules will have, you know, if you go to the cooperative, I think it has minimum 20, maximum 40 as an example, and then that'll give you the scope. So, you know, you might get a couple of explorers in there, but you know that that can be a huge part of it because you're not going to have 100 names of these tiny minnows that are going to be part of it and usually liquidity requirements. But, you know, it always goes back to that point. Yeah, I understand we are getting to go on to the hood of these ETFs, because it will help you understand what you're actually getting into. Yeah. Yeah. And then help you out say I bought this criminals' ETF. Hey I'm sure that we're right in the path of recapitalisation. Want them to make money. You understand what the companies are doing and what's actually impacting it. 

Bryce: [00:28:23] Well, guys, we set out to unpack the concept of overlap. I think we establish that it's not all bad news. It's not a bad thing. You just need to be aware of it. If you are doing it, do it for a strategic reason. And if you are looking to understand how your portfolio overlaps, then the easiest way is to go to the provider's website and look at the top ten holdings. If you want to go deeper, you can download the XLS with all holdings and start running some scripts. So Blair, thank you so much and thank you to Global X ETFs, a leading player in the ETF industry. Make sure to go to globalxetfs.com.au To find information on all of the products we've spoken about, plus plenty of the white papers and investing in information players. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.