Top companies respond to ruling overturning Roe v Wade

Maddy: [00:00:36] Hello and welcome to youre In Good Company. A podcast makes investing accessible for everyone. I'm Maddy and as always, I'm in some very good company with my co-host, sophie. 

Speaker 1: [00:00:46] We're actually in good company today because we're in person. 

Speaker 1: [00:00:50] We're in a potentially new studio. 

Maddy: [00:00:53] I know producer Sasha as well. So she says she's waiving. 

Sophie: [00:00:57] She can't say that I say hi. Okay. We like having you here. 

Maddy: [00:01:05] So we are here today, though, to talk about quite a serious topic or something that has really been on our minds a lot over the last week or so. 

Sophie: [00:01:15] Yeah, Saturday, a week ago, the Supreme Court in the U.S. overturned Roe v or versus Wade. And we want to on today's episode to kind of talk about it. But I guess, first off, we want to acknowledge that, you know, we're an investing podcast. So why as an investing podcast are we talking about this decision? [00:01:32][16.6]

Maddy: [00:01:33] Yeah, I mean, because it is a political issue, but I think there are a few reasons. And the first one being so many companies have come out and announced really extensive support for their employees. And I think, you know, we always talk about investing in your values and investing in companies that align with your values. So I think there's a lot of discussion here to be had around how companies are responding to the news. [00:01:56][23.6]

Sophie: [00:01:57] Yeah, and I think another point to that is that there's so much overlap at the moment between political and social issues and companies and what their responses are. So I think it would be good for us to discuss how companies have been responding. And then on top of that, what is the broader economic impact and what are we going to say from a decision like this? [00:02:14][17.0]

Maddy: [00:02:14] Yeah, and whilst we don't live in the US, the US is a cultural superpower and a lot of the things that happen over there have a really direct flow on impact to the rest of the world, but I guess in particular the Western world. [00:02:26][11.9]

Sophie: [00:02:27] As a female led podcast, we really want to have this discussion. We've discussed it before and we also have reached out to the community to get their thoughts. But we'd love to hear your thoughts as well. [00:02:35][8.6]

Maddy: [00:02:36] Okay, so the background let's touch on this really briefly. The US Supreme Court, which now has a conservative majority, has reversed a ruling that it previously made in a landmark case called Roe versus Wade, that women would have the right to an abortion. So this reversed a decision that has been in place for nearly 50 years. And I think an NBC commentator put it really well when he said the Supreme Court in history has never granted a widely recognised constitutional right and taken it back. [00:03:04][28.0]

Sophie: [00:03:04] And we kind of knew this decision was coming because there was a draught leaked of the decision from the Supreme Court. But I guess it's a bit of a monumental feeling, an impact when it actually does get passed down so personally for you. Like, how are you feeling about what's happening at the moment? [00:03:20][16.1]

Maddy: [00:03:22] It's been like super heavy. Yeah, I feel like I've had a really physical reaction. Like, my heart really hurts. Yeah, that's really upsetting. [00:03:29][7.2]

Sophie: [00:03:30] I feel like I want to cry. [00:03:31][1.0]

Maddy: [00:03:32] I know. [00:03:32][0.1]

Sophie: [00:03:33] I like when I read the news when I first saw it, like I fully teared up. I personally have never been affected by abortion, but I know many people that have and I feel like it's one of those things for me as a woman that's something that could potentially impact us and it impacts, you know, everyone more broadly as well. And I think it's just a heavy feeling because it's like, how have we gone back so far in history where we're taking away the right for someone to choose what to do over their body? [00:04:02][29.5]

Maddy: [00:04:03] Yeah, well, I was chatting to Clem, your housemate, the other day, who shows messaging us on the podcast Instagram. She was talking about how she had dinner with Granny Jill. And if you have listened to our episode, you'll know a little bit about who is legend. But she was saying that she, her grandma just could not believe how we've come so far. And in her lifetime, she's seen so much progress and now she's saying this happen. [00:04:27][24.5]

Sophie: [00:04:28] Yeah. So where have you been looking for information about more broadly this decision and what's happened? [00:04:34][6.5]

Maddy: [00:04:35] Yeah, I have been listening to a lot of U.S. news podcasts. So The Daily is one and The Journal is another. They've been releasing a lot of really great content, but I mean, it is really heavy and quite hard to listen to. So make sure you are in the right mind frame if you do want to go there. [00:04:50][14.3]

Sophie: [00:04:50] Yeah, and I would recommend The Life Uncut. They did a database of the daily shows which kind of explains the background. And also I've been. Reading a lot, which I don't usually do. I'm usually a listener, but the New York Times has a good pace. Forbes has a couple of good paces. I think it's good to do some wide reading to get a lot of perspective, but we'll put all of these in the show notes as well so you can access them as well. [00:05:13][23.5]

Maddy: [00:05:14] So let's go then onto some of the things that companies have been doing in this space. I think we did a live event a few weeks ago now, and the theme of the event was really about sustainable investing and astute investing. And I think when we decided to do this seminar sort of preparing, I really took a moment to have a think about what those things, what sustainability and what ESG, environmental, social and governance mean to me. And the things that really stuck out to me was gender and cultural diversity in leadership and in companies more generally. And I guess the point of this conversation that is talking about gender diversity, I really believe that if a company isn't embracing 50% of the population and they're just not being the best company that they can possibly be, and I think reflecting on what's going on in the US now, you know, the reality of the situation is that it's going to really impact women's ability to be in the workforce in the way that we have been able to be. [00:06:13][58.9]

Sophie: [00:06:13] Yeah. And I think your I think your investment decisions can be influenced by the fact about how companies do respond. Because, you know, as we kind of said at the beginning, there's now this intersection between companies and politics because they do have so much influence and power and maybe what you are investing in will be impacted by how they see you react, how what the talent that they're going to be attracting going forward. And these are the things that we're going to be discussing. But I thought it would be interesting to hear like, what have you been hearing about what companies are doing in response to this? I guess on the side of if they're trying to support women or families that are affected by being restricted from abortion. [00:06:50][37.2]

Maddy: [00:06:51] So we did a post a little while ago when this news was first late, but there's lots of large companies such as Airbnb Bay by Disney and Bumble that have all come out and said that they would cover expenses for employees who need to travel to get abortions as well as other support. I was actually chatting to one of my best friends who lives in Chicago yesterday and she was saying her work, which isn't as big as these companies, but I was really happy to hear, has also been announcing different levels of support for them as well for travel and things like that, if they need if they need it. [00:07:23][32.0]

Sophie: [00:07:24] One thing that I found really interesting about this, about companies responses is like, yes, they're coming out and saying that they're going to potentially give money for travel and things. But I did wonder, like. How does that look in reality, like as a young female myself? Like, how do you go and ask for money and time off and potentially extended time off? Because this is an emotional issue as well and you might need extended leave for. [00:07:49][24.8]

Maddy: [00:07:49] It, especially in the climate we're in now. Like it would already be a really confronting thing to go through, let alone the added political layer that now exists and the challenges that now exist to getting an abortion. I know that's what Sash commented on our Instagram post, but we first look at all of these companies doing amazing things and I felt really good about it. I mean, I still do. I still think it's really heartwarming to see that companies are able to step up and have this kind of power. But Sash made such a good point, which is exactly what you're saying. Now, the reality of that is that as an employee, as a female, you have to go to your employer and say, Hey, I want that money that you're offering. I want that time off that you're offering because I need to go and get an abortion. That's such a private thing that you shouldn't have to share. [00:08:32][42.3]

Sophie: [00:08:32] You're such a private thing. And I know and particularly as well, I think, you know, the issue here potentially is like we bring back to the ACA, like you have greenwashing. I don't know what you would call this necessarily, but kind of that idea of like a company saying they are going to do something, but are they actually going to do it? I think a good example is measure and measure stated. I'm going into rating mode because this is a statement from them that they intend to offer travel expense reimbursements to the extent permitted by law for employees who will need them to access out of state health care and reproductive services. And I think a really interesting thing about this is what the hell does that mean? Yeah, like what kind of money are you accessing? What kind of service are they offering? And like, is this company just putting out a statement because maybe they're more associated to like the Democratic side and they still want people investing and knowing that potentially they care about gender diversity or gender issues. So I don't know. What does that look like? What does that mean? [00:09:30][57.7]

Maddy: [00:09:30] I mean, I think we could go down a really date roundtable here later and understand why it took, which probably means that we shouldn't go down the whole. But when I was revisiting a lot of the sort of announcements that companies had made, it was really interesting to read the slight changes in statements that maybe what we saw a month ago when the lake initially came out and they were saying that they would offer, but they didn't actually have to do it yet. And I kept noticing this little phrase permitted by law, where permitted by law. And it kind of just got me thinking like this isn't permitted by law. Like that's kind of the point. So I think, yeah. [00:10:07][36.3]

Sophie: [00:10:07] Like in a state it is banned. Does that statement not apply in. I don't know in that you need. [00:10:14][6.7]

Maddy: [00:10:14] A lawyer in. [00:10:14][0.4]

Sophie: [00:10:14] Here. Yeah, we need a lawyer one. That's a no. I guess in any of your research in looking at companies, have there been any statements that you've thought. Yeah, that companies are going to do a really good job in this space? [00:10:27][13.1]

Maddy: [00:10:30] Mhm. [00:10:30][0.0]

Sophie: [00:10:30] No. Yeah. Okay. So that's fair. [00:10:32][1.9]

Maddy: [00:10:32] Honestly, I mean I think like we just said, the legal talk. Well it will speak far more to May is over the next six, 12 months, two years how we actually see this unfold. Yeah, because I think, you know, I was reading last night about how one of the really big bank big banks in the US had come out with a really strong stance on this. Yeah. And then where they were based in the U.S., there's been a lot of retaliation and they're copping a lot of flak now losing deals and money over it. Yeah. And I just I'm I'm really interested to watch closely to see how things like that play out, because I think in certain states, there can be so much pressure applied. Yes. I don't know if these companies are going to be willing to stand up to it and withstand it to that extent. [00:11:17][44.8]

Sophie: [00:11:18] Well, we saw that with like Disney, right. When they came out with their stance on Don't say gay in Florida. And then they were taking their tax incentive privileges were taken away as a company. So it's like, yeah, they might have these values and they might want to retain talent and attract, you know, diversity. But at the same time, if it's really going to economically hinder them, then it might not be something that they do. [00:11:40][22.0]

Maddy: [00:11:40] Yeah, it may not be viable. One final thing that I want to touch on, which is sort of fascinating and terrifying at the same time. And this is something that Sasha sent us this week, and it was this article about how privacy experts are raising concerns around period tracking apps. Yeah, I was chatting to a friend about it and she was saying she was pointing out how there's been so much development and I think it's called the Femtech Space. Yeah. And how we're embracing technology so much more broadly in our everyday lives. But think about how many people I don't know if you use one, but are using these period tracker apps like Flow. And I was actually reading into it. Flow actually found itself settling in court recently after being caught sharing data from its 43 million active users with Facebook without their knowledge. So this is already happening. And I think, you know, apps such as period tracking apps that contain sensitive health information, you know, we're so used to having that protected patient doctor privilege and that doesn't exist for those who have started using and giving our information to. And it's pretty terrifying to think that the government could access that information and use it against us. [00:12:54][73.2]

Sophie: [00:12:54] Yeah, well, that's what we spoke about on The Daily. All right. Last week we spoke about health care companies moving into the tech space and saying that they've already faced so many privacy issues because they literally have all of our data, like your Apple Watch, watch as you sleep and Mike knows what you ate and knows what you exercise and knows that time of the month. And like having that available, it's like George Orwellian. [00:13:14][20.6]

Sophie: [00:13:16] Jojo really is that. [00:13:18][2.0]

Maddy: [00:13:18] Thing that surprised? But I have to say, I don't know. I want my Apple Watch to track my sleep, but it runs out of charge. [00:13:25][7.1]

Sophie: [00:13:28] I think the whole company perspective is one that is so interesting, and I think we should also look at what the economic perspective looks like on this. But before we do, let's take a quick break for our sponsors. [00:13:38][10.2]

Maddy: [00:13:41] Often when rulings like this happen, people really dismiss it as like a women's issue or a political issue. And I think what we really want to touch on now is the broader impact. And we wanted to talk about some of those points so that you can feel more informed, have this conversation with the people in your life who might lay out or be disengaged from this issue. [00:14:00][19.3]

Sophie: [00:14:00] Yeah, and like political issues, impacts the economy always. And we speak about other political issues. So this is just another one to kind of add to the unfortunate long list of things that politics does. [00:14:11][10.9]

Maddy: [00:14:13] When I really think about what this means, I start at the decision between a women's decision to have an abortion or the conscious decision to start a family and what that really means for that individual. Yes, I think that's sort of where the flow on effect starts and where they don't have that right to make the decision themselves. To start a family means that it really impacts their ability to be in and participate in the workforce. And we know that that leads to decreased earnings, not only for that individual, but for their families as well. And that has massive flow on effects. [00:14:51][38.3]

Sophie: [00:14:52] Yeah, I think you make a great point. There was actually a study that was done, the turn away study, which actually followed two groups of women who are of a very similar kind of economic background. And one group of women were able to get their planned abortion and the others weren't. And when you say that, it you know, it impacts their earnings potentially. It also impacts the level of debt in their lives because they do have this baby. And what they found was, I'm just going to write this to make sure it's right. At the moment, one group is turned away from an abortion. They began to experience substantial financial distress, exhibiting a 78% increase in past YOU debt and an 81% increase in public records relating to bankruptcy evictions and court judgements, which I think it really highlights that if you're not at the point in your life where you want a baby, that it can be a long term burden. It kind of has that re-occurring costs rather than just a one off cost of an abortion. [00:15:43][50.9]

Maddy: [00:15:44] 49% of those getting an abortion are below the poverty line, and 55% are experiencing disruptive life events such as losing a job, breaking out with a partner, or falling behind on rent with higher poverty rates. We also say high government debt because it falls on the government to lift people out of poverty through things like welfare. [00:16:02][18.7]

Sophie: [00:16:03] It's such a vicious cycle. And I think another part of that cycle which impacts the economy is that it also reduces the level of education that women can ascertain, mainly because, you know, they might have to drop out of their schooling or the university. And I think the economic impact there is that when you don't have that education, it's harder to get a certain paying job, which then continues that kind of poverty cycle, living paycheque to paycheque. And overall, this means that there's less disposable income within a household. And I mean, if you think about it, if you have people with less disposable income, you're not spending, it has broader impacts on the daily paid, has broader impacts on businesses and companies. So this whole thing, even if we just think of it as a women's issue, it does have that broader impact on children, on families, on businesses. It has that broad economic effect. [00:16:53][49.6]

Maddy: [00:16:54] Yeah, I think to sum it up, there were three factors that really sort of summarise this whole point for me, and it's that access to abortion increases women's probability of graduating college by 72%. Wow. Delaying motherhood by one year due to access to legal abortion increases women's wages by 11%, and legalisation of abortion decreases the percentage of children who grow up in poverty and improves future life outcomes, including increased college attendance rates. I think the key point here is it really comes down to choice. And Sallie Krawcheck, the CEO of Ellevest, said that reproductive health care access is a human rights issue. As we've seen time and time again, that doesn't seem like it's enough to sway certain people with the power to uphold that right, she added. How about this? Reproductive rights affects all of us because it affects our economy. [00:17:45][51.2]

Sophie: [00:17:46] So I guess today we've spoken a lot about the US, but on the same token, this issue really does impact everyone because as you mentioned, America is a cultural superpower. It's ingrained into our lives in one way or another. It does affect all of us. But I guess it made me look into as well a little bit more what's happening in Australia, what our rights are in Australia. And you know, I was so surprised to find out that in South Australia abortion was only decriminalised last year. [00:18:14][28.0]

Maddy: [00:18:15] Yeah, in 2021 and New South Wales in 2019. I think, you know, we both feel extremely fortunate to live in a country where the option to terminate a pregnancy and to have that choice is an option. But we also do acknowledge that access to safe abortion is still limited for many people. You know, first nations people, people living with disability, trans and gender diverse people, migrants and refugees, you know, or people living in rural areas, whilst we do have the opportunity to have this choice, is not necessarily as accessible for everyone as you may initially think. [00:18:48][33.6]

Sophie: [00:18:49] So if you have the means, we have included some links in the show notes. These are going to be both about resources to inform yourself, but also resources where you can donate. [00:19:00][11.7]

Maddy: [00:19:01] We have included links to Planned Parenthood, whose mission it is to ensure all people have access to the care and resources they need to make informed decisions about their bodies, their lives and their futures. And also the Centre for Reproductive Rights, which is a human rights organisation that works across the globe to make sure reproductive rights are enshrined in laws. [00:19:20][18.9]

Sophie: [00:19:21] And I'm going to continue this conversation because we think it's so important to keep discussing getting perspective about what is happening in the world at the moment. We have already put a thread in our Facebook community at Y IGC Investing Podcast Discussion Group. Thank you. [00:19:36][15.1]

Maddy: [00:19:37] We would really love to hear your thoughts, especially if you have any resources that you found particularly helpful. We'd love for you to share them there. [00:19:44][6.5]

Sophie: [00:19:44] And if you have any comments on the economy, what company, what companies are doing, it's a great place to be putting it so that we can all be well informed. 

Maddy: [00:19:53] And if we have any listeners who are tuning in from the U.S., we really would love to hear from you. Hear your thoughts and opinions on what is going on over there and how you're feeling about it. 

Sophie: [00:20:03] I hope today has been somewhat of an informative conversation and you'll hear from us next week.