Top 5 ASX stocks of the past 10 years, TikTok, Temu & Shein make news & a crypto market update

Bryce: [00:00:31] Welcome to Equity Mates Investing, the podcast where we explore what's possible in the world of investing. If you've just joined us for the first time, a huge welcome. My name is Bryce and today we look at the crazy growth of SHEIN and TEMU. We reveal the top five ASX stocks of the past decade that aren't mining, and we get an update on what's going on in the world of cryptocurrency to chat through it. As always, I'm joined by my equity buddy, Ren. How are you? 

Alec: [00:00:55] I'm very good, Bryce. I'm very excited for this episode. We've got a lot to cover before we do, though. There's something else I'm excited for. And that is our upcoming live event, on the 10th of April in Sydney. We are taking Ask an Adviser on the road and we're doing it live. 

Bryce: [00:01:14] We are. So if you have any burning money or investing questions that you want to put to an experienced financial advisor, this is your opportunity. We are going to be joined by Glen Hare From Fox and Hare, one of Australia's leading financial advisors, to talk about all three things investing, property, budgeting, superannuation, cost of living, you name it. 

Alec: [00:01:33] Well, you literally name it because you get the chance to ask the question. 

Bryce: [00:01:38] That's true. 

Alec: [00:01:38] So head to equitymates.com/events or hit the link in the show notes for more information and to secure your tickets. We can't wait to see you there. But Bryce, as we said, there's heaps going on in the world of markets and investing. So hit it. Now Bryce I'm looking at our Google doc and you've just got a note, I'm going to tell you about a company you haven't thought of in a while. 

Bryce: [00:02:02] Yeah I mean this is just classic, it's reflective of what's going on in crypto at the moment. Company that I haven't even thought about in a while. Not considered not zero interest. MicroStrategy. It's back in. Back in the back in the news. 

Alec: [00:02:18] Here we go again. 

Bryce: [00:02:19] Up 100% in the last month, up 316% in the last six months. If people are wondering why, it's because they have vast amounts of Bitcoin on their balance sheet.

Alec: [00:02:29] People might be familiar with the CEO, Michael Saylor. Yeah. Who had a quote that it was like, what we call people that save in fear it is poor or something like that. Classic. Just like that. Yeah. He he loaded up his balance sheet again recently to buy more Bitcoin. I was more than happy not thinking about MicroStrategy. We don't have to say I don't know why you pulled it off. 

Bryce: [00:02:50] Were you talking about Bitcoin.

Alec: [00:02:51] Yeah. We're gonna have Tracey from crypto. Curious on the show later today to give us the crypto update. Every week we send a weekly crypto update and we include some of the big headlines and some of the big, you know, tweets, and there's always some names in there. So it's worth subscribing to if you just want that one weekly touchpoint. How about this from the email this week, Bitcoin surpassed the Swiss franc to become the 13th 13th largest currency in the world. Bitcoin surpasses silver to become the eighth largest asset in the world. And then this just in President Donald Trump says Bitcoin. Well I should say former President Donald Trump says Bitcoin is an additional form of currency with a lot of use. So we're back.

Bryce: [00:03:36] We're back. We'll do this whole dance again, blah blah blah. And then we'll go round in circles, okay. Going around in circles. Let's talk about something more, substantive Ren. China. China. China. 

Alec: [00:03:48] You came bursting into the studio this morning and said we have to speak about Tiktok. 

Bryce: [00:03:55] But yes, it's worth talking about. Well, it's worth noting what's actually what's going on. If you haven't seen the news, it's gathering a lot of speed over in the US. And overnight, the House passed a bill to ban TikTok or force the sale or divest it from the, I guess the, ByteDance, which is owned by the CCP. 

Alec: [00:04:18] No, it's not owned by the CCP. You has very strong ties to the CCP. Okay. So let's just be clear. Let's just be clear. The US House said that the American version of it had to, either had to be sold or had to be shut down, especially now. That isn't a law yet. It has to be passed by. The Senate has to be signed by President Biden. TikTok. America is TikTok's largest market. Yeah. So it would be a massive blow. This policy was first put in place by Trump, when he was president. And it was like Microsoft and I think Oracle would bid to try and buy it. And then it eventually didn't happen. And ByteDance kept owning it. And we should be clear that whilst ByteDance is a Chinese company and it is regulated by the Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party, it isn't owned by the CCP. 

Speaker 2: [00:05:14] It's got that. 

Alec: [00:05:16] Although, you know, I, I, like everyone, buy into a lot of the conspiracy theories about the two different versions of TikTok. If you're in China and if you're out of China and what content is being served up and all of that stuff, I, I think there's some truth to that. But the largest shareholders of. ByteDance are American companies. 

Bryce: [00:05:32] So yeah, I think Sequoia. 

Alec: [00:05:34] Yeah, some of that and like Jen. Yeah. Some of those are big, they say funds. Yeah.

Bryce: [00:05:40] If you're wondering why this is all happening, it stems right back to, it's a national security issue, is what it's all boiling down to. I think that a lot of information on US citizens is being shared back to the Chinese government via data. Sorry, TikTok.

Alec: [00:05:55] I mean, the law doesn't specifically call out TikTok. I don't think you could make a law specifically for one person or one business. It's a law that targets foreign adversary controlled applications. So, I mean, like, really says a lot there. Yeah. I think this story still has a lot to play out. I don't think this is nearly close to done. So I think let's just flag it that it could happen. What it is going to do from an investing point of view is really throw a spanner in the works of Bytedance's proposed IPO. Because they were going to list in the US. That might be a little bit more difficult now. So let's watch this space. I think there's a bit more to play out there, but that's not the only Chinese company that's in the news at the moment. And to kick this off, price, I want to play something I don't want you to tell me if you recognise it. Sound familiar?

Bryce: [00:07:04] Yes, I actually have heard this. Yeah.

Alec: [00:07:06] Okay. 

Bryce: [00:07:07] It's the. It's an ad for TEMU. 

Alec: [00:07:09] Yeah, yeah. 

Bryce: [00:07:10] Shop like a billion. 

Alec: [00:07:10] Shop like a billionaire is the tagline. Well, the worst tagline a bit. A billionaire isn't buying underpriced. 

Bryce: [00:07:19] I mean, just means shop heaps. Feel like you can buy a lot. 

Alec: [00:07:22] Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Buy without budgeting. And then also that. So that was their Super Bowl ad that they just played over and over again and in a, in a forum where it's celebrities and like multimillion dollar ads. It was that song in a cartoon. 

Bryce: [00:07:41] And for context, TEMU is a Chinese e-commerce platform that sells thousands and thousands and thousands of different products at incredibly cheap prices. You probably would have been hit by them on Instagram. Yes 100. Yeah, like they're going crazy. 

Alec: [00:07:57] Yeah. According to the investment bank Jordan, products on TEMU are 60 to 80% cheaper than Amazon. Wow. And Amazon is pretty cheap to begin with. And they so SHEIN and TEMU both really sourced directly from Chinese manufacturers, SHEIN in fashion and TEMU in goods. 

Bryce: [00:08:18] Just like. Yeah, stuff.

Alec: [00:08:20] Crap. Yeah. If you, under 30 and not on TikTok, you're probably not as familiar if you are on TikTok. On the 30, you're probably very familiar with them. They've really been driven by TikTok, SHEIN especially, it's just unbelievable. But the reason that we're talking about them today in an Australian context is these two companies, have landed in Australia and have landed in a big way, more than 2 million Australians. So these numbers are from Roy Morgan. More than 2 million Australians now shop with them. 800,000 at SHEIN, 1.26 million at TEMU. Roy Morgan estimates that they now both do over $1 billion in sales per year in Australia, 1.04 billion for SHEIN, 1.31 billion for TEMU. Roy Morgan also estimates that TEMU is now bigger than kuch.com.au and Temple and Webster we had comparative, but I guess anyway, they're in there. And that TEMU was fast closing on Kogan. So there's some meaningful retailers that it's catching up to. So if you haven't shopped at SHEIN or TEMU before, don't do it. Don't do it because there's a number of ethical questions and concerns. But I think the takeaway is these Chinese companies are really making a mark in Australia. 

Bryce: [00:09:45] Absolutely. I think globally, like you think about what impact this is going to have on Amazon in the like, like what they've done to their supply chain and how they've optimised that, arguably with a lot of unethical practices. But, it's incredible. I think SHEIN is on track for an IPO at some point. 

Alec: [00:10:04] Yeah, SHEIN is looking to list. TEMU, do you know who owns them? 

Bryce: [00:10:07] It's a holding company. PPD or something like PDD. 

Alec: [00:10:11] But, people are probably familiar with it. I reckon you are going to be familiar with the name. It's Pinduoduo. Yeah, yeah. So this is a company that we've been speaking about for years. When I chose Tencent as my stock of the year a few years ago, we were talking about Pinduoduo back then. So it's just this, this relentless march of some of these Chinese companies. 

Bryce: [00:10:34] Shein, add 2000 new items to this store every day. 

Alec: [00:10:39] Yeah, it is like. You can't even call it fast fashion because it's. 

Bryce: [00:10:45] It's mind boggling. Anyway,

Alec: [00:10:47] I think the takeaway is, after two decades of American now, probably more than two decades of American companies just expanding around the world, when now saying Chinese companies sort of flex their muscle. And as China establishes itself as an economic superpower, this is going to happen more and more. We're going to get these Chinese companies doing what the American companies did a generation before.

Bryce: [00:11:13] All right Ren, off the back of our chat last week on all time highs, we decided to look at some of the companies that have been performing the best over the last decade, rather than sort of the last 52 weeks here on the ASX. So we've got the top five stock, best performing stocks for the past ten years. 

Alec: [00:11:32] That aren't mining. This is this is inspired by the episode last week but more by your, 20 year portfolio view. If you bought any of these stocks you would've done better. 

Speaker 2: [00:11:45] Obviously.

Alec: [00:11:50] All right bryce, so these are the top five ASX stocks of the past ten years. That aren't mining stocks coming in. All of this data is thanks to tikr, tikr.com/equitymates. If you want to check it out the link will be in the show notes. So how we'll do this is we'll go through the list and then we'll talk about the companies. So coming in at number five Pinnacle Investment Management Group up 1,889%. So more than ten out almost 20 backed over the last ten years. Coming in at number four PolyNovo, 1,891%. Podium finish number three. Altium 2,565%. Second place, hub 24, up 3,993%. And then number one, more than 100 bagged over the past ten years. Pro Medicus up 12,274%.

Bryce: [00:12:58] There you go. 

Alec: [00:13:00] What are you big takeaways from that list? 

Bryce: [00:13:02] I don't own any of them. Yeah that's my first takeaway. 

Alec: [00:13:07] To be fair, your own all five of them in an ASX 200. 

Bryce: [00:13:10] Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I don't own any individually. I'm surprised to see pinnacle in there, I guess. Never would have nothing against pinnacle at all. We do work with pinnacle, and a lot of that fund is what they look after. But I just not a story that I'd ever really seen in the headlines. 

Alec: [00:13:28] Well, before we get too far into our analysis, maybe let's just introduce what those five companies do. 

Bryce: [00:13:34] Sure. So pinnacle, they are, an investment manager, but they essentially are an umbrella company where they provide distribution services, business support, sort of back end for all of the affiliates that are underneath them. So there's well known fund managers such as Coolibar, which is Chris Joy, Hyperion fire trial. A number of the guys that we've had on the show before, they all operate underneath Pinnacle and Pinnacle then can distribute a lot of that sort of fixed cost across one not fixed cost, but a lot of provides support across all these fund managers. 

Alec: [00:14:04] They take all the admin out of fund managers so fund managers can focus on picking stocks. What's PolyNovo do?

Bryce: [00:14:10] So this is what they say they do. Well you know Lenovo develops innovative synthetic dermal substitutes utilising patented bio absorbable polymer technology. Now if you explain that like I'm five they do synthetic skin. A lot I think they do. Well anyway then we've got Altium. we spoke about them during the summer series that they design printed circuit boards. Hub 24. They're a big wrap platform for financial planners. And then Pro Medicus, they provide software for radiology and medical imaging to hospitals, imaging centres, doctors the like. 

Alec: [00:14:50] Yeah. So big takeaway for me. There's a wide range of companies making up the top five X mining. We've got financial services with pinnacle. We've got health care with Poly Novo and then life three technology. Three technology platforms really. Pro Medicus and Hub. And Altium are all technology, but all different fields, you know. Well, actually, I guess they're all software, but a bit of a spread, which you like to say might be takeaway, though outside of Altium, none of them have got a lot of mainstream AFR like buzz.

Bryce: [00:15:30] Well, I did do a, a bit of historical research on Pinnacle because I was like, how have I missed this? Like, as I said, we engage with them. They were headlines. Not not to the tune of like after but it didn't capture they retail attention. Yeah. That's some of the other some of the other companies have over the last decade. 

Alec: [00:15:52] I think there's pockets of the Australian financial community that have been obsessed with some of these stocks. And the one that really comes to mind is the sort of ex Motley Fool world of Andrew Page, Owen Rask, Claude Walker, Scott Phillips, who still is at The Motley Fool, like Pro Medicus for them, has been a big, company, I think. Clawed 100, bagged it. So he picked it early and wrote it all the way. So full credit to him. And then, you know, companies like hub 24 like they've been a great story. Them net wealth and premium have sort of disrupted the whole financial planning software space. And we've known that that theme is playing out for the decade. Didn't invest. 

Bryce: [00:16:37] No no. Yeah. Take the ASX 200. They're all in there. 

Alec: [00:16:40] Yeah. 

Bryce: [00:16:41] But Ren you've taste the whole way through there. This list is ex mining stocks. If we were to actually look at the top ten. Godless of sector. Are there any in there that aren't mine?

Alec: [00:16:52] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So okay, so for example, Pro Medicus is the second best performer okay. Yes. But to get five non-mining stocks. How far down the list of all the ASX past ten years. Best performing. Do you think I have to go down? 

Bryce: [00:17:10] How big is the list?

Alec: [00:17:11] Yeah before I got to five non mining. Not that many. It was. It was 13 okay. So yeah. So Pinnacle Investment Management is the fifth best non mining ASX. Yeah. But it is the 13th best overall. 

Bryce: [00:17:29] Yes. 

Alec: [00:17:30] Now I'll, I'll give you the list of miners and I've already asked you. Well you can say who number one is. Yeah I think, I think some people would guess. 

Bryce: [00:17:41] It to be honest. So there's a name in here that I'm surprised isn't in here. 

Alec: [00:17:44] Okay, well, let me. I'll go through the list. You tell me who you think's missing. Okay. So coming in at number eight, Stanmore resources, 2,000%. Emerald resources up 3,000%. The grey mining up 3,200%. Boss energy up 3,800%. Capricorn metals up 4,000%. Bellevue Gold up 5,300%. Coming in at number two for the miners. Number three overall. Lyons Town Resources up 6,700%. And then coming in at second place was Pro Medicus and then the number one miner and non miner. Just the number one story on the ASX over the last ten years. Pilbara minerals up 25,000. 

Bryce: [00:18:35] Amazing has shut the lots out. Only recognised two names on that list Pilbara and Lion Town. The rest just goes to show the breadth of small mining companies out there that if they hit, they go. 

Alec: [00:18:49] Well, I mean, it's just a reminder that as much as we love the non mining stories on the ASX, Australia is a mining country that definitely gets resources. 

Bryce: [00:18:59] Yeah. 

Alec: [00:18:59] This is sort of unrelated but there's activist investors now trying to convince Glencore to move their primary listing to the ASX and keep their coal business. Implicit in that is that Australian investors just love. 

Speaker 2: [00:19:14] But yeah. Yeah. 

Bryce: [00:19:16] I thought Fortescue would have been on there but it's nowhere near by the look of it. It's only up in the last decade in the hundreds of percent, not thousands. 

Alec: [00:19:27] So I mean, I think the one thing that you take away there, like I asked this question in the office yesterday and people's first guesses were company like best performer on the ASX. People's first guesses were companies like CSL. But if you want to be, if you want to be the best performer over like a ten year period, you can't be too big to stop you going to be in that like mid-cap 200 mil, 300 mil market cap range, and then you're going to grow into like three below ten below market cap. Like that's sort of the sweet spot for growth investors. Now we've just taken a quick break because we wanted to fact check the Pilbara numbers. Not that we're impugning the data that comes from Tyco, but it just seemed like such a wildly large number that we wanted to double check it. There is a quirk to this, which is timing really matters. And if you go back ten years, that was when Pilbara was right down in the dumps. It was trading at $0.01. So even though listed in the taint, it might have had some stock splits but split adjusted exactly ten years ago it was trading at $0.01 right. Yeah. So that's why it's had such a big growth from there. 

Bryce: [00:20:42] Now trading at $4.18. 

Alec: [00:20:44] Yeah. So you know if you go back to when it was listed to now it's growing 3,000% since 2010. But from exactly ten years ago when it was at $0.01 it's up 25,000%. So that's it.

Bryce: [00:20:59] Crazy. 

Alec: [00:21:00] So, Bryce, I guess the question is all these 13 stocks, but especially the five non-mining stocks. The obvious question becomes, is it too late to buy them? 

Bryce: [00:21:09] The obvious answer is I don't know. No. I think you should never be put off by the fact that these come that a lot of these companies have run. If you look at how much Amazon's run, if you look at how much Berkshire Hathaway has run, if you look at how much all of these huge companies have run over the last 20 or so years, that doesn't mean that they've run out of gas. So I think it always just comes back to doing the work and coming up with your investment thesis and, and, you never know what can happen from here. 

Alec: [00:21:38] Yeah. I think the idea that looking at historic performance and having that having an influence on whether, what the company's prospects are going forward like that just colours the idea. Like, for example, like you look at these companies, the market thinks there's so much growth in them. Hub 24 trades at a 78 price to earnings. Pro Medicus trades at 150. Price to earnings. Wow. So the market thinks these companies are going to keep growing. The big caveat being that you're paying a lot for these companies. Like you wouldn't think, perhaps fairly valued at the moment. So yeah, like there's, there's growth there. The question becomes the price you pay. You need to. 

Bryce: [00:22:23] Look at the story. Like if you actually looked at pinnacle, at its peak, it was up almost 11,000% or thereabouts. But it's going through the same, same sort of story that Magellan did. Drop in performance phase funds under management. It was hit. It has been hit hard. So yeah, you just got to do the work on each of them. 

Alec: [00:22:42] Pinnacle is still trading at a 30 price earnings which is probably expensive for that business. But it's not 150. That paramedic is it. Right. Yeah. Anyway, let's take a quick break here. And then on the other side, we're going to be joined by Tracey from crypto. Curious to talk about another asset class that keeps on running crypto. Welcome back to Equity Mates. We are joined by Tracey Ploughman, the co-host of Crypto Curious Australia's number one crypto podcast. Which I'm sure is getting a lot of buzz, with crypto markets as they are at the moment. Tracey, welcome to Equity Mates. 

Tracey: [00:23:28] Thanks for having me, guys. Certainly, getting a lot of buzz at the moment. 

Alec: [00:23:33] Now we've touched on crypto briefly here. But we haven't really gone too deep into what's going on at the moment. So we wanted to call in the experts to get us up to speed I guess. So Tracey, for people who switched off in 2021 when the market peaked and started falling, give us the update. What has happened in the past few years? 

Tracey: [00:23:57] Oh, look, there's probably a little bit to catch up on because you're right, I think it was November 2021 that we did hit that all time high and we started the podcast. So that was what we hit that week, which was everyone. Everyone was very excited about crypto then. So we hit it was 68,000 USD at the time. The markets were frothy, and then into 2022, and it was a year, to be honest, that we would probably rather forget as crypto natives. It wasn't a great year for us. I think the things that really sparked it all was the global central banks, you know, including the US Federal Reserve. They raised interest rates all around the world to kind of fight inflation. And then that makes things like crypto less appealing. For, for, for others. So that started the market downturn. But then things like the constant threat of regulation, which is always a worry for us in the crypto market, that was on the very day throughout 2022. But the two major things that killed us were events for those who maybe we're still listening to, you know, which was the collapse of an algorithmic stablecoin that lost its peg to the US dollar, which was a huge event. And then obviously, towards the end of 2022, Sam Freed and Ftxs that massive collapse that, you know, that did kind of filter into to, the normie markets as well. So that was huge. So 2022 was really a year that we wanted to forget. So we know how that ended for us. Yeah, I guess so that really was kind of the tail between the legs. November 2023. Things turned around I guess. 

Bryce: [00:25:41] So 2020, end of last year. Well, not at the end of last year. I think Bitcoin doubled in price from the beginning of 2023 to the end. So it was certainly wasn't just towards the end, but it started gathering a fair bit of steam. And now Tracey. So we find ourselves at a point where Bitcoin and Ethereum have both hit all time highs, surpassing that November 2021 mark. The big question that Ren and I ask, and I imagine a lot of, your community and the equity markets community is asking is where does it go from here? 

Tracey: [00:26:13] And, look, I think Ethereum actually hasn't touched all time high. I think you could just yeah. 

Alec: [00:26:18] That's why we get the experts. 

Tracey: [00:26:20] Yeah, yeah. So I think, Etherium just touched 4000, which is huge. Let's go a little way to go, I think it's 4,600 USD, so we've just had a massive upgrade in the last 24 hours on the Ethereum network. So I don't think it's too far away. What's the big news for us is that we're seeing things that are really unusual. Normally we, because we're in uncharted territory. Normally we don't see this all time high until the halving that this has happened before the halving. So we've not seen this before. And I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that the Bitcoin ETF has happened. And it's been amazing. If you've been keeping up with this, but the demand for these ETFs has just been relentless. We actually had, I think, $1 billion for the first time in one day flowing through the ETFs. This is Monday just going on. And we don't see this kind of thing yet. We don't see that slowing down. So again we're uncharted territory. We do not see this slowing down. So we think it'll push through to the halving. And who knows. That's the thing. We're all kind of everyone's obviously very excited about that community. The halving again is only 37 days away.

Bryce: [00:27:31] Do you have a countdown on your fruit? 

Tracey: [00:27:33] We certainly do. We do. 

Alec: [00:27:35] Now. For people who are unfamiliar with this term, the halving is when Bitcoin miners get half the reward that they previously got for mining for crypto. Why is it such a seminal event? And why does it correlate so strongly to price? 

Tracey: [00:27:53] It's a built in rule that ensures only 21 million bitcoins will ever exist. Everyone gets very excited about that. And the price goes up. 

Bryce: [00:28:00] Well, it's it's it's, making the supply side of things more restricted in some way if it's harder t, harder to mine. 

Alec: [00:28:09] I know, but it's a, it's a stock and flow thing because like the stock is still there, like the existing stock of Bitcoin is still there to be traded. It's just the flow slows down. 

Bryce: [00:28:18] Yeah. That's I'm sorry. That's what I mean. The the rate at which. 

Tracey: [00:28:20] Exactly because it cuts the miners rewards in half. So it makes Bitcoin rarer because the miners aren't getting as many in that respect. And then on top of that you've got this demand for the ETFs happening at the same time. So you know, there might be I assume there's going to be some kind of liquidity crisis coming soon as well, because there's just not enough out there at this point in time.

Bryce: [00:28:44] Does that just not push the price to crazy levels, though? 

Alec: [00:28:47] I think that's what I see. 

Tracey: [00:28:49] Exactly, exactly. So I mean, this is really uncharted territory for us. It's all it's pretty exciting. 

Alec: [00:28:56] But Trace, we should temper people's expectations because the halving historically has normally seen a price run up before the halving. And then there's been a crash and then a subsequent run up. Isn't that right? It's not all. It's not just one way.

Tracey: [00:29:12] 100%. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we do have to say the reason that, a lot of people in traditional finance, you know, look down on Bitcoin is that it's a very, very volatile market. And we haven't seen any pullbacks yet. And a lot of the circles that I talk in and just waiting for a pullback, we haven't had any substantial pullbacks yet. We usually see corrections anywhere between 25 and 55%. And they will happen undoubtedly. And we usually see one straight after the halving. And on the run up to whatever our next all time high will be. There's usually between 3 and 5 of these deep pullbacks. So they will inevitably happen. Will they be more shallow this time round. You know, is that they definitely will happen. But now that we are starting from a higher kind of level, they won't be quite as, you know, as deep this time. 

Alec: [00:30:05] So now I'm just looking at in 2021, crypto actually fell 50% between March and July 2021. So we all remember the bull run up, but it's just a reminder that it's an incredibly volatile asset. 

Bryce: [00:30:18] Yeah. So just on that Tracey, for a lot of the community who are seeing the headlines and getting excited and potentially thinking about deploying a bit of capital into it, like how do you suggest or think about, investing in crypto in Bitcoin at a time like this? 

Tracey: [00:30:33] Well, look, to be honest, there was a time to invest and that was in the Bay market for the last two years and would have been slowly and that would have been slowly averaging in, your portfolio, you know, dollar cost averaging over time. But in saying that what generally happens is that at the halving time, Bitcoin then generally goes on to double, within the first 3 or 4 months after that time. That is what history shows us. So it was still early right now. And if you look at it long term, what we think it's going to go there's a cycle after this and cycle after that. So I'm still someone who, if you are a long term believer in where this is going, then there's a long way to go. And you should be dollar cost averaging slowly in a very small percentage of your portfolio. And you know that that's being smart about things. But where we are now, I still certainly believe that there is a long way to go. But again, it's about being smart and following the principles of investing and averaging. And I certainly wouldn't be going and putting everything that you want to invest today. If there is, if there's an amount that you're feeling like you'd like to invest in this market, I would then potentially break that up into a percentage and then, average that in, say, maybe over the next few weeks or months that would be market because we have not seen a big drawdown yet. But we certainly will. 

Alec: [00:31:48] Trace, I love that there's some, really good, bits of investing wisdom there, keeping it a small percentage of your portfolio, dollar cost averaging in, being very sensible about how you're investing and what the asset class is. So to go a complete 181 dumb question to close it out. What about all those meme coins, any, any, projects or coins that we should be keeping an eye on? 

Tracey: [00:32:16] Look, I, I don't like to give specific coins. Obviously, there's a lot that I've already done, really? Well, in this market, Bitcoin goes first, Ethereum goes second, and then all these other old coins go after that. And we know Bitcoin's rising now. And we know Etherium we'll go a lot of other coins that are already done exceptionally well. You know solana's done, you know, 700% in the last year already. But one area that I'm personally really interested in, the boys also, is this new narrative we've seen, which is DeFi on Bitcoin. And that opened up this last year because of the Old Norse craze. But I'm really interested in that one. There's a lot of tokens in coins that have popped up there specifically. So that's just a whole area that I find really intriguing and that's a whole different narrative itself. So that's just something else that potentially people could, could look into in the whole. Maybe I'll pass on that a bit more. 

Alec: [00:33:10] Yeah, well, if people want to hear more from Tracey, Blake and Craig, they can listen to crypto-curious wherever you listen to podcasts. Australia is the number one crypto podcast, so go check that out. Tracey, as we leave you today, one final question. If you're game, do you have a price target, price target for Bitcoin. 

Tracey: [00:33:29] Oh gosh. This is always the hard question. But look, I'll put it out there, I feel and this is different to what I would have said like last year. I think we'll touch 120 k USD really quickly, maybe even in the next 3 or 4 months before a pullback. And then I think we'll hit 180 K as the top. That's USD, which would be 270 Aussie as well as the top as the top maybe early next year, which is a lot higher than I'd thought. But this all comes off the back of this ridiculously huge inflow from these ETFs. So there you go. That's my prediction. 

Alec: [00:34:12] Not financial advice, but we will be watching this space closely. Trace, We love it. Thank you for joining us today. And I'm sure we'll speak to you again as this market continues on this crazy ride. 

Tracey: [00:34:23] Thanks for having me, guys. Bye. 

Bryce: [00:34:23] Thanks, Tracey. 

Alec: [00:34:25] Bryce. Well, let's come back down to earth after those lofty predictions. I don't know what to say. It's an exciting market. Could all go belly up. We've been through this before. 

Bryce: [00:34:38] Yes. Yeah, we're on the roller coaster ride of cryptocurrency, but Ren, we'll leave it there. But equity mates will be back in your feed tomorrow with another episode of Buy or Sell.