Stock Of The Year 2022 | Ren’s shaking in his boots

Bryce: [00:00:15] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast that follows our journey of investing, whether you're an absolute beginner or approaching Warren Buffett status. Our aim is to help break down your barriers from beginning to dividend. My name is Bryce, and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How are you going?

Alec: [00:00:31] I'm very good, Bryce.  I am in so many minds about this episode. I'm beaten down. I lost this competition year after year that I can't even muster the energy to say that I'm excited for this episode 

Bryce: [00:00:48] as a world first. 

Alec: [00:00:50] This is a world first. 

Bryce: [00:00:51] That's because we're doing Stock of the Year. 

Alec: [00:00:53] Yes. 

Bryce: [00:00:54] Traditionally, an episode that you put a lot of time and energy and in great research, Tencent pitch last year was epic. And unfortunately, your stocks seem to have a lag on them. You pick them. They don't perform so well. And then in the following years, they tend to do well. It'll be interesting to see how Tencent goes. This year could go really well. Good, it could. But wait, we're wiping the slate clean. Yeah, and it's a new year 2022. We've both got a stock New Year, New Year, New Year, New us, and you're incredibly excited you've been pumping up this stock. I don't know what it is. Yeah. 

Alec: [00:01:35] Really excited to hear. I do. I am actually quite excited to talk about this company. The approach that I took after being in my own head about how am I going to beat Bryce? How am I going to pick a stock that doesn't lose a third of its value? In the end, I pick it and I was like, Oh, do I just do the S&P 500 index? And then I was like, Nah, that's boring. Like that one that won't be a good episode. And two, it's not in the spirit of the competition. And then I was like, Do I just pick a super safe, you know, like an alphabet or a Microsoft, like a company that just plugs away, just plugs away? I was like, No, you know what? I'm going to bring to the table, a company that I just find interesting and that I would enjoy talking about for 15 minutes. Because let's be honest, I can't do any worse than I've done before. And if it goes up, if it goes down, at least I'm bringing a really interesting company to the table that I don't think you will have heard of before. But I think is worth knowing about because it's pretty awesome. Yeah. So I am excited. Yeah, I 

Bryce: [00:02:38] can. I can. I can sense it. 

Alec: [00:02:40] But before we do that, we should say if people like starting the year off hearing about individual stocks Felicity and Candace over on talk money to me have done twenty two stocks for twenty twenty two. 

Bryce: [00:02:52] to sound pretty amazing. 

Alec: [00:02:55] Them, yes, yeah, they're 

Bryce: [00:02:58] pretty amazing, we're getting to stocks on the Ren. Yeah, go over and listen to talk money to me as they chat about twenty two stocks on their watch list for 2022. They're doing a great job over there and and tune into them if you haven't already is. They also do or have had episodes where they Deep Dive on a couple on stocks that are on their order pad for their clients. So if you do want stock specific stuff certainly going listen to talk money to me, but Ren, let's let's crack in. Well, no time like the present, no 

Alec: [00:03:29] time, like the present. But we should say on these episodes where we're pitching individual stocks, it's really important to stress that this is not financial advice. Bryce and I are not advisors. We don't know your personal circumstances. We are two people who are trying to learn out in the open who are trying to share our journey, but we are not saying this is a buy. If you'd seen my track record over the last three years, that goes without saying, but we should say it, yes. Two companies to add to your watch list to research yourself. But there's so many investing opportunities out there. Do your own research, find your own opportunities where entertainment, not advisors. That's it. All right, let's do it. Who's going to go for you if you go first? 

Bryce: [00:04:15] Okay, I can't wait. I can't. I don't want to. I don't want any more suspense. 

Alec: [00:04:18] All right. All right. So this company is a company that has created $128 billion in shareholder value shareholder value over the past two decades, but only has a market cap of $12 billion. Wow. 

Bryce: [00:04:34] How does that make sense? 

Alec: [00:04:35] How weird is that? Yeah. This company is the antique conglomerate. OK. We look at someone like Berkshire Hathaway, and we see them buying stakes in businesses or buying for businesses, rolling them up into this efficient, well-oiled machine that sits under Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger. And we admire it. This is the opposite of that. This is a company that sucks in little companies and spits out giant world beating companies, really? This this company is IAC Interactive Corp.. OK. I haven't had to have A.. Let me start it this way. Have you ever wondered? I don't look it up on your computer. Let me give you the spiel. No, no, no. Come on. Sure. Have you ever wondered you going like a random website or like you use a random tool online and you wonder who owns that? Yeah. Like Vimeo, the video player or Investopedia. Mm-Hmm. 

Bryce: [00:05:32] All right. That's a good one

Alec: [00:05:33] Interactive Corp. owns it, owns or owned. Vimeo owns investor owned. So what they do, they own, you know, like hundreds of internet businesses and they roll them up into separate business, like into separate business units. And then they spin those business units out and they give shareholders of interactive corp shares in the new businesses. All right. So some over the past 25 years, they've spun out 11 public companies, some names that you

Bryce: [00:06:03] probably if they still hold shares in those 

Alec: [00:06:05] companies? No, no, no. So but the shareholders do. It's not like the calls and Wesfarmers day merger where Wesfarmers hung on to like 20 percent of the culture. This is like 100 percent. You're your own company. But if you're an interactive corp shareholder, you hold those shares. 

Bryce: [00:06:23] I get it. What's the what's the reasoning behind that for IAC? 

Alec: [00:06:27] These companies are just better on their own, like they can manage their own capital. They can take advantage of their own opportunities. 

Bryce: [00:06:33] But I mean, it's an interesting decision for IAC not to want to

Alec: [00:06:37] because it still creates the shareholder value. Yeah. Like so this company is mainly controlled by this one guy, Barry Diller, who I'll get to. But, you know, like if you're an IAC shareholder, whether IAC owns it or whether it's its own company, either way, it doesn't matter. You get the shares. Yeah, that was the point of the opening. You know, they've created one hundred and twenty eight billion dollars in shareholder value, but the only a 12 billion dollar. Yeah, the value just gets goes out into the world. Yeah. So they've they've spun out 11 public companies over the past twenty five years. Expedia? Yeah, out of it. Yeah. TripAdvisor, which was actually spun out of Expedia. Yeah. Match Group. Yeah, which we did on summer series Deep Dive on Vimeo. The video player lending tray, which is a big online lending business. Ticketmaster you've probably heard of since acquired a number of others home shopping network, a bunch of others. And then they've also sold a bunch of notable companies. So rather than spun them out, just sold them directly. Newsweek they owned for a while, Urban spurned. They sold USA Network. So like a number of big companies have have gone through IAC, 

Bryce: [00:07:48] do they get these companies like in their infancy to turn them into something big? Yeah, sell them off. Or they? Create them bit of both. 

Alec: [00:07:56] But, for example, Match Group, they bought Match.com in 1996, and then Tinder was actually started at an incubator by a bunch of U.S. students. But then they bought Tinder later. They bought a number of the other apps. Then they rolled it into this online dating company, Match Group, but then they spun out last year. Yeah. Wow. So that's that's the business model. So let me give you a worked example of how how this works in practise. So in 1995, Barry Diller took over the company. It was then known as Silver King, since right now and then it was trading at thirty nine dollars a share. So if you bought 10 shares, thirty nine point three hundred ninety dollars. If you're just held those original ten shares until today, here's what you would own 10 shares of IAC, 10 shares of Expedia for shares of QVC five and a half shares of Live Nation, zero point six shares of LendingTree. Twenty one and a half shares of Match Group 10 shares of TripAdvisor, six point six shares of Marriott Vacations. And then you would also have fifty nine dollars in cash from when another company that was spun out was then since acquired. So all up at the end of last year, all of those different shareholdings that you would have had from the original ten shares that you bought would be worth seven thousand one hundred and seventy dollars from three nine from three nine, which is a compound annual growth rate since 1995 of 12 percent. Yeah. Compare that to Berkshire Hathaway 10 percent in that time or the S&P five hundred seven percent in that time. 

Bryce: [00:09:33] How rich is the? 

Alec: [00:09:36] The man did. He's a billionaire. Yeah, yeah, but he's really impressive.

Bryce: [00:09:40] What role does he play? 

Alec: [00:09:41] He was CEO now is chairman, but he also is like, is not majority shareholder, but he's got like a class of shares that gives him a bit of power. That's the business model, the anti conglomerate business model. They exist to buy and build up companies, internet companies, media companies, tech companies build them up and then spin them off to shareholders. And so some of the companies that they operate now, Angie's Home Services, which is like a online marketplace connecting consumers to home home services professionals, kind of like on high page prices. Yeah. Dot, Dash and Meredith are two online publishing brands like Big Portfolios. They own publishing brands including Investopedia, People Entertainment, Better Homes and gardens, InStyle brides. Like a whole bunch of things, Dot DoorDash has 96 million monthly viewers. Meredith has hundred and forty four million, so you can say they're building like a digital publishing business that maybe they sell all that's been out. At some point they've got you remember Ask Jeeves, which is now just ask. So I have a search business where they own all of those assets don't know what they're doing pointless, but earns a bit of money. Care.com is another online marketplace for caregivers childcare, senior care, tutoring, housekeeping, stuff like that. Mosaic Group is a web development company. This was an interesting one, so there are 44 branded mobile apps, 3.8 million paying subscribers, but it's all those weird apps that again, it's like, who the hell owns is who the hell makes this not like games, but just like strange apps like, you know, productivity apps? Yeah, yeah. Like they own a bunch of them, my fitness pal. Yeah, yeah. Vivian Health Marketplace for health care professionals blue through a marketplace for hourly jobs. So it's all these like online businesses that they're trying to build up and scale and eventually sell. 

Bryce: [00:11:34] It's kind of conglomerate then not conglomerate 

Alec: [00:11:36] like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But rather than like keeping them all in-house, they 

Bryce: [00:11:40] at some point, yeah, 

Alec: [00:11:41] yeah. Then they also have minority investments. They invested two hundred and fifty million into Turo, which is a peer to peer car sharing marketplace Airbnb for cause. Kind of like Kleenex door that we have here, which filed for an IPO like a week ago. And then they invest. They own 12 percent of MGM Resorts International on the Las Vegas Sun. Well, the global casino operator and sportsbook, which will come back to it because I think that's the big one, the interesting one. So that's what the company is now. Management, Barry Diller said his name a couple of times. Let me introduce you. So he came up in Hollywood. Bill Fox Broadcasting was the guy that greenlit The Simpsons back in the day. Then built up USA Network was the CEO of Paramount Pictures for a while. So like big in like Hollywood media, that kind of thing also. Yeah, then CEO of 20th Century Fox, that's when he greenlit The Simpsons. He's on the board of Coca-Cola today. A bunch of stuff. Pretty impressive management. And then for 95 has been at IAC. Doing this, doing its thing there. There is literally a term that the media use called the killer Dylan. And what that is is, you know, in sports there's like coaching trees, you know, like people in the AFL Typekit Kloppers coaching tree or in the NFL Bill Belichick's coaching tree. In business management, there's the killer Dollars, which is basically all of these executives that have he's built up a mentor and trained. Wow. Michael Eisner, who was CEO of Disney. Jeffrey Katzenberg, co-founder of DreamWorks. Dawn Steele, who was the president of Columbia Pictures. Dara Khosrowshahi, the Uber's CEO, who was the CFO at IAC. And then Barry Diller basically tipped him to run Expedia when it became a public company. Mindy Grossman, CEO of Weight Watchers, a number of others, like all of these incredible executives, have come up under him. And so if you talk about good management and building good management for a lot of these portfolio businesses, yeah, he's got a pretty good track record. Wow. So that's the business, that's the management, that's the business model. But recently, the company spun off two of its best assets Match Group and Vimeo. Yeah. And so then you wonder, why am I picking up Stock of the year? Number one, because I just wanted to talk about it, and I've got no hope of winning this competition. Yeah, but number two, there's a couple of potential catalysts that I think are interesting. So the first one is the spin offs of Match Group and Vimeo has freed up their balance sheet. They've got about $1.5 billion in cash. They can raise more money if they want to. So they've got some options. But the second one is this MGM stake, so they spent about a billion dollars to take 12 percent in a casino operator and sportsbook operator. The question is why? The expectation is MGM have a like an online sportsbook that apparently is just not doing that well. It's producing so much, so little revenue that it MGM basically round it down to zero. And there's an idea that IAC are coming in to try and do what they've done in a number of other industries and take it from offline to online, consolidate a number of businesses and then spin it out. So it's a way to play the legalisation of sports gambling in the U.S. They've done this with dating. They've got all these online ups aggregated them. Turn it into match group. They did it with ticketing. They took it from an offline thing to an online thing with Ticketmaster spun that out. They did it with travel. Took all these off. This offline business, bought all these online travel groups, made it into Expedia, spun that out. They're trying to do it with home services now and trades and stuff like that with ANGI HomeServices. And now the idea is that they're doing it with sports gambling, and they're trying to move it from offline to online and consolidated a whole bunch of players. So it's early days, but it's an interesting thematic in the U.S., obviously sports books and there's plenty of ways to play it. You can go, you know, directly to like a pen. You can go in Australia to like a pointsbet, but this is potentially another way to look at it. The bear case we should just be clear, is a lot of the businesses that they have at the moment might just be dogs, just might not be that good like homeservices online publishing like not exactly the greatest money-makers online. You know, may-, maybe they've spun out a lot of the great businesses Vimeo Expedia match that really made a lot of money for them and what they're left with isn't that good. Yeah. So that's the that's the real bear case. Yeah, this is so dependent on them being able to continue to do what they've done because in the conglomerate business model, you keep the good stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In this business model, you spin it out and you rely on your team to find more good stuff. Yeah. 

Bryce: [00:16:59] So that's fascinating.

Alec: [00:17:00] Yeah, but really interesting company. 

Bryce: [00:17:01] Yeah, really interesting. It reminds me of the one we spoke about last year, the guy rolling up all the really Nash software companies. 

Alec: [00:17:10] Constellation Slice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Bryce: [00:17:12] Yeah, yeah, fascinating, interesting business model. I'd love to work at a place like that. I think we. So really interesting to try and roll this up, create businesses will 

Alec: [00:17:19] be out again, apparently with Lending Tree. So the story is they brought an executive in to do something with online lending. Oh wait, no, no, no. So not not with Lending Tree with Dot, Dash and Meredith. They brought someone in to do something with digital publishing, and he was like, If you want me to do it, I had a look at the market was like, I need money to make this Meredith acquisition and roll up a whole bunch of brands like we brought you in to figure it out. Here you go. And so it seems like they get a lot of freedom to build these businesses. Yeah. So yeah, it'd be pretty cool. 

Bryce: [00:17:55] Nice one. So just for those listening at home, it's listed in the states. Nasdaq ticker is IAC. Yeah, I hadn't heard of it, but truly fascinating. A really good pitch, I think, for the stock of the U.S. Stock of the year. Here we go. 

Alec: [00:18:10] All right. Let's take let's take a break. Let's hear from our sponsors. And then I'm excited to hear what you're going to beat me with this year. 

Bryce: [00:18:17] Now, I'm not so confident.

Alec: [00:18:20] All right, Bryce, you've kept the people waiting long enough. 

Bryce: [00:18:23] What have you got? Well, it's nowhere near as exciting as I say. It's a company I love. Everyone would have heard about it before. There's potential that I've missed a lot of the upside on this one and had a cracker of a year last year, along with other many other stocks that it's not going to go on, had a stellar 2021. But I think this is a stock that should perform if a lot of the headwinds were expecting to see it should hold up alright in 2022. If we don't see a lot of those headwinds, then I expect it to continue to perform as well as it has over the next 12 months. It's a stock that always under promises and over delivers. It's an Australian company every single time. It's very good at keeping the market updated and always beats analyst expectations, and we know that the stock market right now. We know the stock market loves that and it is a global leader and now one of the world's largest asset managers. 

Alec: [00:19:24] Macquarie, how are you going to get 20 minutes out of this?

Bryce: [00:19:32] No. So for those listening who aren't in Australia and around the world, Macquarie is a is the world's largest infrastructure asset manager. It manages 737 billion dollars in assets under management, but it's also a global financial services group. It's operates in 33 markets around the world, and it has four operating groups. As I said, it is one of the world's 50. It's in the top 50 largest asset managers, and it's Australia's largest, fifth largest bank. You're got to beat me again. As I said, it depends what the market, what happens with the market this year.

Alec: [00:20:09] But yeah, yeah. 

Bryce: [00:20:11] So I just want to, I know, spoken about a lot, but I just wanted to to go through. 

Alec: [00:20:17] Well, yeah, and give it give the description, but also tell us why you've chosen it for this in particular. 

Bryce: [00:20:21] Yeah, yeah. So it's made up of four operating groups its operating groups, banking and financial services. So this is its retail banking operations, personal banking, wealth management and business banking. It has about 1.7 million customers in that space. It has Macquarie Asset Management, otherwise known as man. It's the world's biggest asset manager, as I said, 737 billion. 

Alec: [00:20:47] It's not the world's biggest asset manager, 

Bryce: [00:20:49] so infrastructure asset manager 737 billion. It's got two commodities and global markets. And so this is a markets facing business, helping everyone with risk management, accessing markets, execution, just your normal sort of product market. And then Macquarie Capital, which advises companies on growth opportunities, sources, investment funds, negotiates transactions and also spins off companies and lists them on the share markets and those sorts of things. So they add the investment banking side for areas of the business. If we have a look at the financials, as I said, this is where they continually surprised the market. They had half year to 30th of September 2020 operating income of twelve point seven billion dollars. Net income on that was three billion, but they've just posted $2 billion profit in the first half of 2022, up from 985 million in the corresponding period. So I'm churning out cash and that income is well-diversified, which is one of the reasons I like them. They get 34 percent of their income from the Americas, 23 per cent from Europe and the Middle East, 11 per cent from Asia and 32 per cent from Australia, New Zealand. So pretty well diversified spread of income from around the world. The reason I like them, though, is because of their change in business model. Since the GFC hit when the GFC hit in 2008, it really forced Macquarie in a lot of investment banks to look at their business model, particularly their risk management practises and where they were getting a lot of their revenue from. And this forced Macquarie to change their, I guess, their revenue base and has subsequently delivered a 1000 per cent increase from the bottom of to the GFC 2009 in their share price. So it's been pretty significant return in shareholder value. So what did they do? The bulk of their earnings traditionally came from its market facing businesses, which was the commodities and and global markets and Macquarie Capital. What they then did was change that from and so that was a lot of advisory fees and trading desks. So commission based stuff, 70 per cent of their revenue came from that side of the business in 2014. In 2015, though, they started scaling up what they call their annuity style businesses, which is their banking and financial services and their man or their Macquarie Asset Management annuity style businesses. For those at home who are unsure what that means, it means their businesses that generate steady income and are reasonably low risk. And for Macquarie, this means their asset management, business, asset financing and retail banking services. They all produce recurring revenue year in, year out, and as investors, we love recurring revenue. So that's changed how revenue and profit has been broken, and their annuity style activities now account for 63 per cent of their net profit compared to what it was 30 per cent, sort of, you know, five or 10 years ago. And the biggest contributor to that is their Macquarie Asset Management, which 10 years ago, as I said, was only 30 percent of the business. But why am I choosing this for 2022 if interest rates go up? Right? Interesting to get your thoughts on this, but if interest rates go up, I feel like that they're reasonably protected. There's no doubt that low interest rate environment has supported sort of real assets that infrastructure funds their property. But I think the impact of REITs, we need to look at where they get their revenue from. And as I said, that is Macquarie Asset Management, their infrastructure funds and their commodities business. If rates go up, it will pull down the value of assets and reduce performance fees. But the way that they make money in these businesses is off. Management fees and management fees aren't based on the valuations of their underlying assets in the majority of management fees aren't based on the evaluations of the underlying assets. So the impact of that will be limited. And on the commodities and market side of the business, it's commission based so actually does well and its fair bit of volatility in the market. So if if there is a bit of a bumpy year this year, you'd expect, you know, February trading to go on and that side of the business should start to see some, some decent commissions as well. I could be totally wrong here. 

Alec: [00:25:24] Well, the other thing is like the infrastructure assets will probably be able to pass price increases on. Yeah, though there might be one of the better protected businesses. 

Bryce: [00:25:34] Yeah. Well, I think two main growth drivers at the moment for their asset management business is obviously infrastructure, but also renewable energy. So regardless of what happens with rates this year and whatnot, the asset management engine will just continue to grow. I think regardless of market conditions, because there's just so much money institution around around the world. You know, there's almost infinite demand for infrastructure investing at the moment. Why is that they need to put their money somewhere that's going to just be generating long term, consistent returns? You think about all the pension funds around the world that have so much money they need to put somewhere. We've just seen Sydney Airport be bought by, not by pension funds. So Macquarie are really well positioned for that. There's just such huge institutional demand for infrastructure investment. They're really good at raising money. They can raise huge funds and they consistently do so and consistently churn out pretty decent returns. One other thing that I really like about them as well is their talent. They are known as producing millionaires. They're known as the millionaire factory, so they attract talent, and they probably have some of the best talent in the business in investment banking and asset management. And they're really good at keeping that talent, primarily because the way they invest, their incentive structures are set up. You get paid bonuses that have sort of three cliffs on them or whatever it may be. You don't actually get to realise the stock options for a number of years, which keeps a lot of that good talent in position in positions in my foster talent up the chain. Mm-Hmm. So, yeah, I think for me, it's a business that I don't think is going to go gangbusters. It's not it's not your tech stock, it's not your Tesla. But equally, I think it's more of a downside play for me. I think it's positioned well enough. It's got revenue coming from a number of different areas. But the two biggest pockets of revenues, the asset management and commodities in global markets, which I think shouldn't be too impacted should market conditions become a little hairy. Again, there's probably people listening thinking that I've lost the plot, but for me, Macquarie. 

Alec: [00:27:39] So in the past two weeks, they're down about nine percent. But I think before that, they were Australia's third largest bank, like they had just got past Westpac and ANZ. Wow. But now, now ANZ, Westpac have jumped them again. But I think, yeah, they're like, right, right in there. Wow. Good pick. It is. 

Bryce: [00:28:02] It's not as exciting as I say. It's not as. 

Alec: [00:28:04] Yeah. But I mean, if you if you're talking about a company that has just like multiple routes to make money, it's like they literally just have a monopoly on talent from like monopoly on young talent. So if you're a great investor, like a great finance or economics or probably great any student these days? Maggie Lake Macquarie Yeah. Yeah, there they entice you. And it's where you want to go, and then they lock you into employee share schemes with like 10 you vessels. Yeah, and the shares are doing so well that like you don't want to leave. Yeah. And then they just empower you to just find ways to make money. 

Bryce: [00:28:44] Well, I think that's what the one of the key things we know a couple of people have worked there and they they really just say. Go out and make us money, yeah, yeah, you have one job to do. 

Alec: [00:28:54] Yeah. And like, you are properly compensated for that. Yeah, yeah. If you can profit sharing. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I mean, if if you were to say, what's the ingredients for a great business, it's getting the best people possible and giving them the freedom to just pursue whatever they want to do around the world. Yeah. And Macquarie sort of built up. Yeah. And like you could say, plenty of ways where it doesn't work and there's always risks, but. Let's go to businesses you can find really.

Bryce: [00:29:25] I know there's just, yeah, well, I mean, for me, it's just so much money looking to pocket in infrastructure projects, renewable projects, and these guys are the biggest managers of that in the world. It does.

Alec: [00:29:34] It's like one thing where like, you don't want to have an overreliance on what is fast becoming the hottest asset class in the world, like the amount of money chasing those assets, renewable energy assets and just infrastructure assets generally. Pension funds like sovereign wealth funds, big fund managers like everyone is chasing them. And so potentially you get into bidding wars and you spend more than you should on those assets. But then again, like even as I say that if there was one asset manager that I expected to be disciplined when they came to this stuff, it'd probably be in the class. 

Bryce: [00:30:14] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, they go to an Australian based company, a US based company that's its stock of the year. Done and dusted. We'll put that away and see how he wants to.

Alec: [00:30:28] Just a reminder, as we get off talking about how good Macquarie is, we are just two people trying to learn, you've got to do your own research. We've been wrong or many of times before, and we'll be wrong plenty of times. Again, this could be one of them.

Bryce: [00:30:44] This could be one of them. So do your own research.

Alec: [00:30:45] DIY are DIY or whatever, and we're all wrong about that as well. 

Bryce: [00:30:52] Ren always good to chat stocks. I'm hoping to do more of it this year as well. We've got plenty of awesome episodes coming up to kick off the year. We've got Nick Griffin coming back on the show soon to chat about what's going on in his world of investing. Plenty of awesome experts and some am chat to kick off the year. So it's been a pleasure. Great to be back into it. Exciting start and we'll pick it up next week. 

Alec: [00:31:16] Sounds good.