Quiet Quitting: How Covid changed the jobs market

Adam: [00:00:25] Hello and welcome to Comedian versus Economist. We demystify the world of money and help you get a handle on the bigger picture. My name's Adam and we're joined, as always, by my little older brother and real life economist Thomas. Hi, Thomas. 

Thomas: [00:00:39] G'day Adam, how you doing? 

Adam: [00:00:40] Pretty good. Thanks yourself. 

Thomas: [00:00:41] Yeah, yeah, I'm great. 

Adam: [00:00:42] Excellent. Massive show coming up. As always, there's a bit of new economic jargon going around, Thomas, which is exciting friend shoring. Is it just kicking you drunk? Made off a boat? We'll find out. Another new craze, sweeping workplaces, cold, quiet, quitting much better than those noisy quitters. And Thomas, people trust you maybe because of your economics knowledge, but possibly just because you have a beard. We're going to find out why that might be the case. But first, Thomas. The RBA has hiked rates again. Again? What does this mean for our GDP forecasts? 

Thomas: [00:01:21] Got another 50 basis points. We flagged this on the show last week and the RBA delivered as expected, another 50 basis points, taking the rate, the cash rate to 1.85%. So we've now had four consecutive hikes and 1.75% in four meetings. So because, as we say in last week, it's one of the most aggressive, if not the most aggressive hiking cycle in history. 

Adam: [00:01:45] I had to stop having meetings. Yes, this is nothing good ever came from a meeting. If I've learnt one thing in 25 years of gainful employment meetings, getting nothing done. This is never more true. Yeah.

Thomas: [00:02:01] So it's I mean, it's interesting. It is. It is a big U-turn. I mean, this is interesting for two reasons. One is that because it wasn't expected so few Lowe and the RBA were with were kind of stressing that they were going to have no rate hikes until 2024 at the earliest. We've now had 175 basis points by mid, but yet by mid 2022. So that's a pretty big miss. And a lot of people going like, you know, is this a reasonable case? They're like, this said, like if you bought your home, you really stretched yourself to buy a home in 2021. Yeah. On the understanding that rates weren't going anywhere for another two years or something and then suddenly you at 175 basis points. 

Adam: [00:02:46] I heard murmurings of even a class action against the RBA. Yeah. Some sort of. Yeah. Some sort of class action to get together and and effectively sue the RBA for misleading information that caused people to potentially have some significant financial distress. How big a landmark case. Would it be. If it had. 

Thomas: [00:03:07] To be hard to prove? I mean, I think I think, you know, they're saying like based that based on. [00:03:12][5.3]

Adam: [00:03:13] Merit, it just go back to the media releases from a year ago when it was said that, yes, yes, you do fake news. [00:03:22][9.9]

Thomas: [00:03:23] You know, but it was it was contextual like, you know, based on our forecasts, we don't expect to do this. And then economic reality comes in differently than you are forecasting. And then you say, well, we got overtaken by events and with the new events, the rates are now appropriate. I think it would be the argument I would make. [00:03:43][19.8]

Adam: [00:03:44] Yes. Well well, I'm perfectly happy to let a jury of 12 of my peers. [00:03:47][3.8]

Speaker 1: [00:03:50] Work that out. [00:03:51][0.6]

Adam: [00:03:53] That's the risk. That's the risk. If we if the if the class action gets out and the RBA has to go to court, there could be 12 people like me and then I. [00:04:01][7.8]

Thomas: [00:04:01] Might get hold of an expert witness. [00:04:03][1.3]

Adam: [00:04:06] You have to pretty across this, you know, throughout the podcast, we're keeping a very close eye on events. I feel like you're pretty well placed. We wouldn't have you. Wouldn't that be a show? Our next podcast could be you as an expert witness in the courtroom and may sitting in as a juror. [00:04:22][15.3]

Thomas: [00:04:23] Yes. So there's that sense that it's potentially misleading. It's also the you know, it's a really aggressive rate hike and people sort of saying, is it does it need to be so aggressive? And but the kind of context for that is that it was in hindsight, overly aggressive on the way down, that we cut it. We cut rates much more quickly and aggressively than we needed to. With the benefit of hindsight and same story with with the government stimulus packages from the from Canberra, like on both counts, with the benefit of hindsight, we just pump from the economy way more than we needed to. [00:05:01][38.8]

Adam: [00:05:02] A lot of hindsight going on. A lot of foresight. [00:05:03][1.4]

Speaker 1: [00:05:05] Yes. [00:05:05][0.0]

Adam: [00:05:06] And the classic economists figure in hindsight so much foresight. [00:05:11][4.7]

Thomas: [00:05:12] Yeah. But then and then if you look at, you look at what the RBA was working with, so the, the, the government sort of health authorities now they were projecting 50000 to 150000 COVID deaths. Um hmm. In the end, we got 12,000, and a good chunk of those people dying were over age 83, and we had sort of other illnesses associated with COVID. So that was a big mess. They're also talking about a peak hospitalisation rate of 35,000 people a day into hospital. In the end, the peak was just 5500. And we're talking about shuttering the entire economy for six months. That didn't happen in we had sort of patches of it. [00:05:53][40.4]

Adam: [00:05:53] But the reason is the point, though, isn't this economic management and I've asked you before, why don't we just jack up rates to 3% right now if that's our target? And you've said you said to me, well the Adam the and then we went back and forth for a while and eventually eventually you said the rate because we need to gauge how we're going as we're doing it. And so that's the. So wasn't that the same rationale on the way down? Like, why did we why did we not gauge and read the room as we were going down and go, oh, actually, you know that things are aren't panning out as bad. Maybe we can just slow this kind of slashing of rates down a little bit. Yeah. [00:06:39][46.4]

Thomas: [00:06:41] I think I think because most decisions in the economic space happen fairly slowly and gradually. So take a look. If you're thinking at the firm level like hiring intentions or investment intentions, these things move quite slowly. It takes a while for, you know, just even just the internal decision making process takes time. And so it moves at a time where month to month or even like typically six months isn't that long a time in an economic cycle. COVID was really unique in the sense that you had this event that that changed the game almost instantaneously. So you locked down an entire state or a nation. That is an instant decision impacting businesses immediately and they need to respond immediately. It was into that immediate decision making process that the RBA then okay, we just were just slashing rates. And so if firms are thinking like, oh, do I just just sack everyone and try to like manage my debt costs or whatever and they go, oh, okay, who? Okay, obvious. Obviously slash debt costs. That's going to help things a bit and maybe it'll be okay. So I think I think that's why it was such a yes slash job at the start. And it was the outlook was was really, you know, potentially horrific and uncertain. We just didn't know. And so there's a lot of what they call an insurance policy. And they took out the RBA took out insurance by slashing rates to the floor to be like, well, this is covers at least covers us for the worst case scenario and then full load said recently and with the benefit of hindsight, it could be argued that we took out too much insurance. [00:08:21][100.4]

Adam: [00:08:22] All right. [00:08:22][0.1]

Thomas: [00:08:22] So then now things are evolving and the RBA has updated their forecasts and they're now lower than where they were to this. And yet this is starting to bite. We're starting to see this have an impact. [00:08:31][9.1]

Adam: [00:08:32] So these are the GDP for us. [00:08:33][1.8]

Thomas: [00:08:34] That's right. Right there. Whereas they were looking for 2% in 23 and 24, that's now down to 1.75% cent. So they're ratcheting back. They're expecting unemployment to tick up a bit higher than they were previously, not not in a major way. They're forecasting inflation to peak this year some time at 7.75% and if that happens at 7.75%, that means globally we get off pretty, pretty lightly. Will the will have done pretty well I think if we if we peak at seven and three quarters in this game. [00:09:08][33.9]

Adam: [00:09:08] And so if the RBA forecasts turn out to be true. Well we will get off. We get off pretty lightly. Would do pretty well. Yeah. How confident are you reckon the public is now and probably got. [00:09:22][14.0]

Speaker 1: [00:09:25] In. [00:09:25][0.0]

Adam: [00:09:25] The RBA is ability to forecast is it a moment you reckon is is this good is this good news for us do you think or no. [00:09:33][8.3]

Thomas: [00:09:34] Yeah, it is true. I mean, Treasury's. [00:09:36][2.0]

Speaker 1: [00:09:37] On. [00:09:37][0.0]

Thomas: [00:09:37] Board with the 7.75% as well. [00:09:39][2.0]

Adam: [00:09:40] Oh yeah. Yeah. They weren't on board with the rate with the the other forecasts. [00:09:44][4.1]

Thomas: [00:09:46] No. I mean they just they just adjusted their forecasts ahead of the RBA I think. [00:09:49][3.2]

Adam: [00:09:49] Isn't Albanese going to clear House or the RBA if someone was going to read something and glossed over it? Probably, yeah, someone's oh no. [00:09:56][6.4]

Thomas: [00:09:56] There's an independent review that's been launched of the RBA. So the RBA was set up like in the nineties or it was given statutory independence back in the nineties and hasn't really had a review of how it's working since then. So there's been a bit of a push that it that things need to hit a bit of issue. [00:10:12][16.0]

Adam: [00:10:12] Possibly triggered that possibly triggered a bit of widespread review of the RBA. Rob Thomas I'm excited because we've got some. New economics jargon. Friend shoring. What's friend shoring. [00:10:28][15.3]

Thomas: [00:10:29] Yeah. So this is talking about so this is this is the evolution of offshoring. So offshoring was when you described the phenomenon of of jobs and industry being shipped offshore so that multinationals did back through the eighties and onwards in a pretty major way. Like so in 1982, US multinationals had 30% of their labour forces abroad. By 2014 that was 60%. So at 60%. 60%, yeah. Yeah. Wow. So they were sort of us multinationals almost in name only. Yeah. And so and that was it was just a, just a cost question. They could sort of offshore that manufacturing to places that had cheaper labour prices and make more money. And so that's that's what happened in in a pretty epic way. But now there's missiles flying over Taiwan. [00:11:23][54.6]

Adam: [00:11:24] Right. Well, Nancy Pelosi was visiting. Yeah. Started firing missiles. [00:11:28][4.4]

Speaker 1: [00:11:29] Yeah. [00:11:29][0.0]

Adam: [00:11:31] I'd like that. That was May. I'd be flattered that someone cares enough to start shooting missiles over my head. Like, for better or for worse. Well, Adam's in town. [00:11:41][10.5]

Speaker 1: [00:11:42] As you. [00:11:42][0.3]

Adam: [00:11:46] Said. If these guard Scud missiles off, you just buzzing? Yeah. No, I'm not aimed at or no. Yeah, I am. Not me. We don't worry about it. We just thought. We thought we'd let you know we've got missiles. [00:12:01][15.2]

Thomas: [00:12:03] Yeah. So what? So, yeah, the geopolitical landscape's being reconfigured, you could say, with particularly around Russia and China. So the China issue has been sort of bubbling away for a few years. Russia's much more recent. Much more recently. But it is causing multinationals to reassess where they're looking and looking for looking to friendlier places, which is where we in the French going from. Mhm. So the economic rationale for having your labour intensive industries offshore remains, but there's now just like incorporating in the geopolitical realities and so airport apple and as recently that they're moving their airport manufacturing from China to Vietnam. Right now it's one of the winners in this story. [00:12:47][44.5]

Adam: [00:12:48] Because they're better friends with Vietnam. [00:12:49][1.0]

Thomas: [00:12:50] Yeah, I think so. I think so. Vietnam is a bit more aligned with with the West. [00:12:54][3.8]

Adam: [00:12:54] We're more aligned with the West or a bit more obedient. Yeah. [00:12:57][2.4]

Thomas: [00:12:57] Same time. [00:12:58][0.3]

Adam: [00:12:58] So we like you because you don't talk back. [00:13:07][8.3]

Speaker 1: [00:13:10] It's a bit. [00:13:10][0.3]

Thomas: [00:13:10] Yeah, it is a bit like that. I mean China is pretty. Like China has now there's this practise of government units being embedded in all multinational companies. So if you want to if you want to run your business in China, you have to have a team, a unit of government officials working inside the company with access to everything. [00:13:29][18.8]

Adam: [00:13:30] That's right. [00:13:31][0.2]

Thomas: [00:13:32] A lot of the companies like. It's a bit uncomfortable with that. [00:13:35][3.8]

Adam: [00:13:36] Well, I've got some respect, though, for China in that sense. Like they're just kind of like, well, if you want to do all of your business here and you want to, you know, set up shop and kind of make use of what we've created with our workforce and whatever it is, then there's a few conditions that come with it. They're not just, you know, they're not just being walked over, which I don't know. I'm not I have no idea on the detail of any of this, but it's like, you know, they're not going to be bullied, which I don't know, because part of the attraction, surely, of offshoring was the ridiculously cheap labour. Yeah, yeah. But also the conditions that, you know, the big companies, multinationals turned a blind eye to the conditions that came with that cheap labour as well. They're like, Oh yeah, we're just happy to have shoes made for a dollar an hour. And what's that? Sweatshops. I saw a mistake. I couldn't hear you say the dollar an hour, wasn't it? That's what we agreed. Yeah. Cool. Thanks. Bye. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know, I. I don't know. I don't know if that's what China is, that's their motivation for doing that or maybe not. [00:14:38][62.1]

Thomas: [00:14:38] But I mean, I think it is a good I think Nancy Pelosi's going to send some missiles over your head for saying that. [00:14:43][5.3]

Speaker 1: [00:14:45] Right. [00:14:45][0.0]

Thomas: [00:14:46] It won't be bad. You know, you look at you look at the rise of Western economies. And there's this myth they get sort of peddled by the conservative think tanks that there's the free market economy, like there was just this sort of level playing field and nations just happened to rise to power in the places that they were. And the market remains free and and influenced by politics and military power. That's never been true. And if you look at like the rise of the UK economy, that that was largely driven by protectionism, that they they banned the export of raw wool at some point. One of the kings and kings, King Charles I think or something he yeah. Banned the export of raw wool and so that created the wool processing industry in, in Britain. Yeah. So yeah. So, so and then you look at a lot of, a lot of just hanging, like a lot of how the economy evolves is very self-interested around around particular pounds. And I think China sees that reality and is trying to meet it. Yes, it is sort of, I think, potentially reasonable at that level. Many companies are worried about it. The companies are worried that they're going to get caught up in the in the cross seams. [00:16:03][77.4]

Adam: [00:16:04] It seems very short sighted, though, like because the we were friends with China, like Australia was good friends with China up until. [00:16:11][7.3]

Thomas: [00:16:12] You know, 20 years ago now. [00:16:13][1.3]

Adam: [00:16:14] Yeah. Yeah. 2019. So what are we going to be saying soon? We're going to we're going to friend shore and have our manufacturing and stuff done somewhere else in Vietnam instead of China, because we're not friends with China anymore. Well, there's every chance we're going to be friends with China again sometime soon. And there's every chance, densely, that we're not going to be friends with Vietnam sometime soon or, you know, and name any other country you want. So isn't that a bit shortsighted? They're just kind of going over moving it from one place to another because of what's going on right now. [00:16:43][29.6]

Thomas: [00:16:44] Yeah. I mean, it's it's hard to see Vietnam becoming an enemy quickly. But then, you know, people were saying that about China. China was with best friends, best buddies with America until suddenly it wasn't. I think potentially it was a bit naive how much trust companies had in China, given the way the political system there set up. So there's a bit of a blind eye turn to it. I think also the transition costs are probably prohibitive that to just pack up a meant a factory like for Apple, I think it would be a bit of a case of like, okay, we need to move from Vietnam. Who wants to host our AirPods manufacturing and then be there be, you know, 100 countries around the world who would put it up, who put their hand up to say goodbye. [00:17:32][48.0]

Adam: [00:17:32] You guys are really cheap labour. Just dismantle the factory, pick it up and move it. [00:17:37][4.6]

Speaker 1: [00:17:38] Yeah, yeah. [00:17:38][0.6]

Adam: [00:17:39] Of course. It's like a thousand bucks, two days work. [00:17:42][2.5]

Speaker 1: [00:17:42] Yeah. [00:17:42][0.0]

Thomas: [00:17:43] So I think. I think like that. It's like it's because it moves on sort of timescales. Like, you know, if you set up a plant, you run it for, you get three or four good years out of it. You're happy. I expect so. I mean, I've got no idea how manufacturing works, but but I think, like, if, you know, if if in five years Vietnam's not on the friendly side anymore, I don't think it's probably going to be too hard for Apple just to go. Okay, we'll go somewhere else. [00:18:06][23.3]

Adam: [00:18:06] Yeah. Yeah. And manufacturing as a service. [00:18:09][2.7]

Speaker 1: [00:18:10] Yeah, yeah. [00:18:10][0.4]

Adam: [00:18:13] But the interesting. [00:18:13][0.2]

Thomas: [00:18:14] Thing with this is that it's all inflationary. So if you're not looking at the lowest cost destination for your manufacturing, if that if that's no longer the sole rationale, if you're going to something with it's a bit more expensive just and friendly. You'd necessarily be a bit more expensive. Yeah. So that that's kind of necessarily inflationary. And so Zoltan Poser from Credit Suisse had an interesting piece during the week. They got they got a bit of attention, but he's sort of talking about like we're in an era of economic war and that era is going to be inflationary because. Yeah, and he's saying like in the low inflation world that we've enjoyed for the past 20 years, that was built on three things. It was immigration keeping wages low in the US and other Western countries, the cheap goods from China based on cheap labour costs and cheap Russian gas powering Europe and Germany and Germany specifically. He's saying like those are the things that cheap power, those are those things that that gave us our low inflation environment. But the economic war that's happening is is undoing all of those things. So had Donald Trump sort of like he sort of pushed an anti-immigration agenda, Covid sort of took care of the rest. And so immigration sort of has tanked. China is not producing as much as it was, and it's got its own zero-covid policy. So that's that's sort of back and then Russia's invaded Ukraine and and so that has interesting. So the first thing the US did was it weaponized the financial system so it cut Russia out of the financial system and put a, put a boot on its throat. Russia then weaponized energy and sort of throttled energy back and jacked up energy prices and that pumped inflation into the Western economies. His point is, like, you know, these economic things we talk about like inflation, they're getting weaponized. Russia has weaponized inflation against, you know, Western economies and saying like, we'll back off or we're going to keep jacking up fuel prices and pushing up prices through your entire economy. But yet and it means higher inflation for longer, if all of that's true, like if it all just unwinds naturally and peacefully. But you look at those things and they're not like they're not they're not going to reverse anytime soon. So it doesn't necessarily we're going to have high, like super high inflation, like continuing at 7.75%. But it means that it the maybe the the era of super low inflation or, you know, deflation is potentially behind us. [00:20:38][144.6]

Adam: [00:20:39] Yeah, thinking about Trump, when you said Trump has been back in the news, he made the claim yesterday. That is where the grey areas that the White House doctor really loved looking at his body. Right. And Suzanne Trump, I didn't really hear a lot else of what you thought. All right. Let's take a break there. We'll grab a word from this big sponsor and be back with more comedian versus economist right after this. Welcome back here on Canadian versus economist and Thomas we talked about friend shoring before the break bit more jargon coming out. It's now quiet. Quitting. What's quiet? Quitting. All of that. [00:21:19][39.7]

Thomas: [00:21:20] Yeah, this is this is something from tick tock, apparently. [00:21:22][2.6]

Speaker 1: [00:21:23] No. [00:21:23][0.0]

Adam: [00:21:24] It's definitely a thing then. [00:21:26][1.6]

Speaker 1: [00:21:26] Yeah, yeah. [00:21:27][0.3]

Adam: [00:21:27] This is where we get all of that always. We often get questions from from listeners saying What is Thomas read. He seems very well informed. Tick tock. Turns out I just. [00:21:36][9.4]

Thomas: [00:21:37] Mean Phil Lowe doing dance challenges nice these guys at 2.6 million views so that's you know that's enough to be newsworthy now granted tick tock creator said K chill and. [00:21:49][12.2]

Speaker 1: [00:21:50] Well. [00:21:50][0.0]

Adam: [00:21:50] One of the greatest economic minds I think you'll find that there was what's his name Keynes and Z. Kate Schiller. Yeah, the greatest economic minds of our generation. [00:22:08][17.3]

Thomas: [00:22:08] And so this video was a follow up to his seminal Wealth of Nations. [00:22:11][3.0]

Speaker 1: [00:22:18] Uh, yeah. Yeah. They said he's had. [00:22:21][3.2]

Thomas: [00:22:21] 2.6 billion views, basically saying, like, just stop working so hard. [00:22:27][5.4]

Adam: [00:22:27] Everyone is done here. [00:22:29][2.3]

Thomas: [00:22:30] He's calling it quiet, quitting. So said, you're not outright quitting your job, but you're quitting the idea of going above and beyond. You're doing your duties, but you no longer subscribing to the hustle culture and the mentality that work has to be. [00:22:43][12.5]

Adam: [00:22:43] Your life isn't like 15 year old employees at Maccas listening to this going, you know, like just this is what we do. It is rock up to work, get paid, then leave. Like, I don't know. Yeah. If you. [00:22:57][13.9]

Thomas: [00:22:57] You know, if you've got time to clean, you got time to clean. [00:23:00][2.7]

Speaker 1: [00:23:03] So they. [00:23:03][0.1]

Adam: [00:23:03] Say this was me. [00:23:04][0.8]

Thomas: [00:23:04] Saying you got time to your time to lean. You got time to lenses. [00:23:07][3.1]

Adam: [00:23:09] That's all I got. All I got time to lay here. There's no time to go in. We're not ready. I've got leaving and then I've got to go. [00:23:17][8.3]

Speaker 1: [00:23:20] Uh, yeah, I think. [00:23:21][1.4]

Thomas: [00:23:22] I think. I think the point he's talking with, with Hustle Culture is saying, like, hmm, in certain industries in particular, like, you know, it's kind of expected in the early days of your career that you just go and super hard. You're putting in the long hours, eating at your desk, late nights coming in on weekends, that kind of thing, and hustling hard. And you say, life. [00:23:45][23.0]

Adam: [00:23:45] Whatever this is, don't do it. [00:23:48][2.3]

Thomas: [00:23:48] It's not. Yeah, but don't quit. You just. [00:23:49][1.5]

Adam: [00:23:50] True. I mean, everyone's, everyone seeking that kind of worlds. We're prioritising the work life balance more now. I mean, like so, you know, there's people talking about, you know, the four day workweek trial that we talked about in the UK. I don't know where that got to. We never got the report yet. So people are prioritising. I don't know, is this a covered thing? What is this? I think I think. [00:24:16][26.3]

Thomas: [00:24:16] I think there's two things that have happened. One like one is like with COVID. COVID created this this sort of sudden stop moment where everyone sort of just took a look at their life and went like, okay, what am I doing? And a real turning point. Like, it was that real prompt of like, you know, I knew a lot of people who like, you know, getting ready to quit, do a sea change, do something new. COVID came along, were like, right, this is my moment. I'm going for it. So there was that. And then there was work from home which which really shifted up the work life balance. And then people, people at home, hey, I actually really like this. This is kind of nice and, you know, don't want to be doing so much time in the office. The second thing that sort of feeds into all that is I think is a really tight labour market. [00:24:59][42.5]

Adam: [00:24:59] Yeah, right. [00:25:00][0.3]

Thomas: [00:25:00] You have this sort of job security and I think people aware that there are the job options out there. They're not if they lose their job, they're going to find something pretty soon. I think people have that confidence. And so with that confidence, you look at the whole work story and go like, what is this really working for me? And yeah, jobs suck like a particularly the way I think the way we we've set them up. Like, you. [00:25:22][22.0]

Adam: [00:25:22] Know, it's understandable. You're an economist. You probably do think that some of us enjoy our work. [00:25:27][5.2]

Thomas: [00:25:32] You know, but if you got to be paid to do it, by definition, you don't enjoy it. I think. Like, I don't, I mean maybe I'm being a bit sceptical. I mean there's moments in which we can enjoy it and have meaning, but I also about also think like a balanced life can't be achieved with a 40 hour workweek. Yeah, like I don't think that creates a rounded human who's enjoying life. [00:25:56][23.8]

Adam: [00:25:57] Yeah, I think to live don't live to work. Hmm. [00:25:59][2.4]

Thomas: [00:26:01] I mean, and the other interesting thing about this coming from the Field of happiness studies. Daniel Kahneman on. A huge fan of one of the pioneers in that field, but one in its economics discipline. But one of the things that's come out of that is that one of the key determinants of how happy you are in life is how much autonomy you have of your time. Hmm. Like, if you get rough, you get to control your schedule. That makes you happy. That increases your happiness. Right. But jobs, by definition, that the decision, this autonomy of time, that you don't have control of your time at a fundamental level, you can you can get part of it. Like once what the the implication of that in in the management studies is if you give people more control over the way they set their work schedules, they're happier. But like, I think at the broader view, like if you've got to spend all your daylight hours, five days a week in in an office, you don't have control of your time. And that's a recipe for being miserable. We know that from from studies. [00:26:58][57.7]

Adam: [00:26:59] Then you get home and your kids and your kids needing to get to school after school sport and things like that. And before, you know, you're you're sitting after 11:00 at night with nothing. They're just enjoying, enjoying, you know, having enjoy your. [00:27:16][17.0]

Speaker 1: [00:27:18] Yeah. [00:27:18][0.0]

Adam: [00:27:19] And then there's kids and dinners and the. [00:27:21][1.8]

Thomas: [00:27:21] Cleaning up and the routine. And then 1030 to 11 p.m.. [00:27:24][2.6]

Adam: [00:27:24] There's mames that you just get to do on your own. [00:27:26][2.3]

Speaker 1: [00:27:27] Time. [00:27:27][0.0]

Adam: [00:27:30] Just get to punch outs and what maims, maims. [00:27:32][2.6]

Speaker 1: [00:27:33] And then it finally gets to relax. [00:27:34][1.1]

Adam: [00:27:34] For the day. All right, Thomas, finally, there's some good news for men with beards. What's going on? [00:27:42][8.0]

Thomas: [00:27:43] Yeah. So now this is some some hard science reported in the Wall Street Journal. [00:27:47][3.8]

Adam: [00:27:50] But now apparently they did it. [00:27:51][1.3]

Thomas: [00:27:51] There's a major study that the Wall Street Journal covers, which there was five studies which analysed the power of beards versus other facial hairstyles, moustaches and not elsewhere specified. [00:28:06][14.6]

Adam: [00:28:07] And other and other sideburns. I used a rock and some pretty hefty sideburns for. [00:28:10][3.6]

Thomas: [00:28:11] Your chops face. [00:28:12][0.5]

Speaker 1: [00:28:12] Yeah. So it. [00:28:14][2.0]

Thomas: [00:28:15] Adam, this is that. [00:28:16][0.6]

Adam: [00:28:18] I think. I think as a family, we were both worse off since I got rid of the soldiers, I think. Yeah, honestly, my life is going downhill since. Since I got rid of them. Yeah. Maybe I'll get them back with Samsung. So I don't. [00:28:33][14.6]

Speaker 1: [00:28:35] Know. [00:28:35][0.0]

Thomas: [00:28:35] Steve Yeah. They said they analysed the power of beards versus other hairstyles or no hair. I think this is just just contained to men and looking at the influence of that on sales, their ability as a, you know, their performance as a salesperson. Hmm. I didn't I didn't measure that directly. But what they did find is there's a strong correlation between having a beard and being perceived as having expertise across an industry. [00:29:04][29.2]

Adam: [00:29:04] Maybe we've found the formula. The root the root formula of the success of a comedian versus economist is maybe it's just down to the fact that you've got a beard if you're listening. And they ask yourself, Would you even be listening to this show if Thomas didn't have a beard? Just sit deep within yourself. Try and try and put the beard, put the bid to the side for. [00:29:29][24.9]

Speaker 1: [00:29:30] A moment. [00:29:30][0.1]

Adam: [00:29:31] And just ask, would I would I still be listening if I didn't? Mary Maybe now Thomas isn't looking like such an expert. I'm going to save the Bureau for. [00:29:41][10.0]

Thomas: [00:29:41] Movember and everyone's going to weigh in on this guy's a hack. [00:29:43][2.5]

Speaker 1: [00:29:44] Do you have any company that. [00:29:45][1.2]

Adam: [00:29:46] Is now ideal is area so okay so you're saying as more of an expert. [00:29:52][6.0]

Thomas: [00:29:54] You have more expertise. Expertise is then associated with perceptions of trustworthiness and trustworthiness is connected to increased likelihood of purchase. [00:30:05][10.8]

Adam: [00:30:05] Right. So you can sell more. Mm. I mean because you go into the, you go into like the last time I bought a car what a used car from a used car lot. And they always do that thing in the used car lot where you negotiate with the salesman up to a point and then you're like, Look, can you do it for 23,000? And he goes, Oh, I'm going to go and check with the boss. And he goes off and and I've always thought there's an unfair balance of power that he gets to go and ask someone else and have this little charade that goes on. So I'm thinking like the next time I might just take a bearded friend, move me. And then when he goes so heavy with the price after he's been off to talk to his boss, I'm just going to go. Well, I'm a good man. I'm just going to go and consult with my my expert friend over here. [00:31:00][54.5]

Speaker 1: [00:31:02] Just go. [00:31:03][0.5]

Adam: [00:31:04] She's going, mama, with a bearded man for 2 minutes. Go back to the houses. Five of the best I can do. [00:31:13][9.1]

Speaker 1: [00:31:16] Yeah. [00:31:16][0.0]

Adam: [00:31:18] Yeah. I don't know. I think. I think there's something that there's surely maybe there is something in it. Mm. I think so. I mean because you know if you think about the stereotypical picture of a scientist or something, a viewing a kid, there's like a someone with out of the glasses and a beard. If you drew wise there was these beards have been associated with wisdom for a long time. They. 

Thomas: [00:31:38] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, old age. I mean every you can imagine a wizard without a beard, right? 

Adam: [00:31:44] That's right. The wisest of all. Yeah. They got their name I. 

Thomas: [00:31:48] Think they noted there was the facial hair does not consistently increase perceived attractiveness which is something. 

Adam: [00:31:56] I think anyone ever, I think anyone was suggesting that, uh, right. I mean, the risk we've got, there's a big risk here, which is that beards blading could become a thing. Just have guys are doing well. They told me I walk again with a beard. Look, look. Do you really want to know what's going on? I'll tell you. Uh, all I recommend I do is for this week. Thank you once again for listening out there. We really do appreciate it. Don't forget to check out all the other great podcasts from Equity Mates Media Get Started Investing feed Equity Mates Investing Podcast. You're in good company. Talk about the team in here is the dog. You know them all. I've said them every time. Thank you. You kind of course we really would like it if you send us an email CVE at Equity Mates dot com or via the website Equity Mates dot com forward slash CVE. And if you've made it this far, then you're obviously enjoying the show. So why not go and like us, right, and review the show wherever you get your podcasts? That would help us out a lot as well. But other than that, that's it for us. We will talk to you again next week. It's bye for now.