NFTs for newbies #2 Are they a good investment? | Tammy Kanat

Maddy: [00:00:19] Hello and welcome to Youre In Good Company, a podcast that makes investing accessible for everyone. I'm Maddy and as always, I'm in some very good company with my co-host, Sophie. 

Sophie: [00:00:30] Hi, Mads. I'm actually so excited for today's episode. It's our final episode of our NFT slash Ethereum series, and we're going to be speaking to an artist and all about her process of setting up Nfts. 

Maddy: [00:00:44] Yes. So great to get some insight and I guess to really understand from an artist's perspective the value that Nfts have to offer. Today, we're excited to welcome to the show Tammy Kanat. Tammy is an internationally recognised artist known for her beautiful and vibrant waving. Her work has been featured in the NGV and she has produced commissions for local and international clients, including one of our favourite brands, Mecca, to celebrate ten years in the textiles business. Tammy has recently brought her artworks to life through Nfts, which we are very excited to discuss with her today. Welcome. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:01:17] Hi, girls. Nice to see you. 

Sophie: [00:01:20] Tammy, we always start the same way with our guest so people can get to know you a little bit. What was the best thing that happened to you in the past week? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:01:27] I actually have some exciting news, which is that I have just discussed within the last week that I'm going to be exhibiting at the Sydney Contemporary Art Fair. So which is super exciting news. And yes, I've actually got so excited. I've started this way working on a new piece, which will hopefully be one of the pieces in the exhibition. So, yeah, that's been a very good week. 

Maddy: [00:01:54] That's incredible. Congratulations. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:01:57] Thank you. 

Maddy: [00:01:58] And tell me if you could have dinner with anyone, who would it be and why? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:02:02] Someone who I would love to have dinner with is an artist who's no longer live called Mark Rothko. And I have an obsession with his art. And he was just an incredibly interesting man who really explored new avenues in art. And I think he would just be an amazing artist to be able to have been able to pick his brains and find out how he came to some of the conclusions he did with his artwork. So, yes, that would be like my idea, and. 

Sophie: [00:02:35] I'm sure you could find out a lot over a couple of wines. You're actually the first person that has added an artist to that question. So there's a first for everything on this podcast. And if you could be a company, a stock, a project, who would you be and why? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:02:53] I would probably be I would actually choose to be a foundation. And again, I'm going down the path because I suppose that's where my passion is. But it would be the Joseph and Annie albums, not for profit organisation. And the reason that I would actually choose them is they were a big influence in the house movement and they just were, you know, they met each other. She was a textile artist and he was a textile artist. And Joseph Albas was the one who really explored the colours, squares, and together they were this gorgeous couple and went on this amazing artistic adventure. And they were sort of around, I think, 1888 to 1994. So we're sort of talking about that era and and they just do now the actual foundation does some incredible work. And I know recently they're actually opening up a a new museum in Senegal called Bebe, which is that community and culture. And they are really looking at bringing art into the area, you know, helping to re-energize and revitalise the community. So that would definitely be a foundation that I would support. And I think they're doing an incredible job.

Maddy: [00:04:05] I have to say, I love this question because they always get such great responses from our guests. But Tammy, I would love to go back to the very beginning and ask, have you always been an artist? And how did you get into waving in particular? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:04:19] Well, if I go right back to the beginning, probably my creative kind of actually creative discovery came out when I was very, very young, but I probably didn't notice it because I was maybe seven or eight. And we used to have a house up at Lake Hilton and I'd sit by the fireplace and I would sit with this beautiful kind of latch cushion, and I would spend hours like pulling the wool in and choosing the colours, which is quite amazing. So I was so young when I did that and then I never really thought about it and then I did my schooling and all of that. And then it wasn't until I when I was pregnant with my first child. I then which used Lexi. Now I decided to try ceramics. So then I realised, oh, I'm really enjoying the creative aspect of ceramics. And from there I got into jewellery. And in the jewellery area I would design jewellery. And I actually grew quite a big business over 12 years that we where we'd sell wholesale. And I also had a retail shop all over Australia and New Zealand and had quite a few people making. So it was a really it was a business and I think it was at that point it was really became clear to me it was a creative area that really was my passion and the business part was not something that came to me naturally. So after 12 years, I kind of left that a bit uncomfortably because I realised that it was no longer saving me. And then I moved into my tapestry and waving. So yeah, that was my artistic journey. 

Sophie: [00:05:53] It's so cool that you can pinpoint a moment in time that you kind of like really realised something that you were passionate about. Because I feel like for a lot of people that's quite hard to do. But the fact that you can say, you know, you were sitting on the couch like Yoda and picking apart, like it's pretty cool that that's that's something that you can talk about. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:06:11] It's actually interesting because I don't think it was until I started waving and I actually came across the waving. Not looking for anything, but just trying to create a piece for our home. So we were renovating our house and I just went to the wool shop, I'd say, in a way that I loved. I'm going to I'm going to try and do this. So I went and I bought the wool and I started waving. And it had this familiar feeling and just this sort of this comfort that I didn't it didn't occur to me until that point. I was like, What is this feeling from? And I worked, oh, that's where I had this feeling. But I think just going back to the jewellery business, which I think is really important, one of the things in the jewellery business, it started out as a creative journey and turned into a business. And that was one thing I struggled with because once it lost, the the kind of the passion for the creativity came about, the number of sales of pieces of earrings and bracelets and how much they cost it. It's a very hard balance, business and creativity to have both parts of your brain working at the same time.

Maddy: [00:07:16] Can't wait to get into that a little bit more, but I have to say I was laughing to myself because like growing up, I always wanted to be an artist. And I think I can pinpoint the point where I realised I was never going to be an artist. Definitely did not have the talent. I'm lucky.

Tammy Kanat: [00:07:31] That's interesting. You probably did, but you just didn't pursue it.

Maddy: [00:07:36] Didn't hone it enough. 

Sophie: [00:07:38] So for people that haven't seen your pieces before, you can head over to your Instagram and say, you know, these big, beautiful, physical waving pieces, but we're really interested. How did you get involved with the NFT space and why did you decide to create Nfts out of your artwork? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:07:54] The thing is, is I think when you're an artist, you're always exploring and you're always getting curious. And that's one thing that I have always you know, I think I'm a curious person and always have been. And I think that once I was doing the tapestry, which then turned into my own form of of waving, which I kind of invented a style that was maybe a little bit different to just your standard square tapestry at that point. And I kind of I get restless really quickly, so I do do colours, U-shape, new design. And then I heard about F TS and I was just like, What is this? And it just fascinated me. Like, how can I reinterpret my work in a digital form? And I just needed to look around the corner. I just kept hearing about it and you know, there was a lot of talk. I listened to a lot of art podcasts when I'm weaving, and there was a lot of talk about the Nonfungible tokens and there was the whole Beeple sale, which was really the point where everyone heard about the thing was at Christie's and it was for $69 million. And these are the sort of out of nowhere. So there was just like all these things popping up everywhere. And I was like, I need to go and have a look at this new artistic form. 

Sophie: [00:09:13] So in the art community, are people really talking about NFT or is it something that's, you know, up for discussion or a lot of people kind of shying away from it? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:09:21] I think that it is really split. I mean, I think that you've got I think if you're in the art world, you need to have a look at it like you just need to to understand what it is. It may not be for you. You may just be totally all about physical art, but it is very real and it is happening. It's definitely a different medium. I think the artists that really succeed in the digital art really are people. Maybe you've been in graphic design or they've kind of been in the digital world. I think for traditional artists it is definitely a harder job and the. More. I went down this rabbit hole. The clearer I am why that is. And it's been a fascinating journey. 

Maddy: [00:10:06] You say on your website that your ultimate goal is to produce a collection of work that makes you feel calm and connected, and you've created a digital dreamscape collection. Can you tell us a bit more about this and I guess how it really differs from your physical pieces? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:10:21] So the Dreamscape collection was how this came about. So once I decided that I wanted to work with NFT is my first port of call was I actually reached out to another artist, another traditional artist who had moved into that area. And so she said to me, Really, you need to get on Twitter onto clubhouse and you need to just start, you know, working with the community and understanding and learning. And so that was my first step. And then once I'd done that and I'd sort of understood a little bit more, I decided I wanted to animate the work because you can do a digital NFT, which is just a still image of my work, but I wanted to actually have the movement so much cooler. Well, I just felt like that there was no point just doing a still of my work. So I kind of did a bit of research and I ended up reaching out to this guy, Cody Orian Ross, who is in the Netherlands, and he did some work with Hermes and just like incredible work. And I really just sort of connected with what he was doing. And I thought, you know what? I'm just going to send him a direct message and say, Hey, Johnny, collaborate with me on NFT.

Sophie: [00:11:30] At Love about No, shall.

Tammy Kanat: [00:11:33] Not? You know, and I just, you know, really just I don't know. I can't I a lot of what I do runs on intuition, my art, the decisions I make doing nfts. I don't I don't overthink. I just jump in and go. I'll see what happens. So I sent him a direct message and he was just like, Oh, this is interesting. He didn't even know what Nfts were. So we ended up having like a, because it was still really new. Like this was I know it wasn't that long ago, but it was still super early days that. 

Maddy: [00:12:03] I guess you already reached out to it because he it was because he was an expat. And, you. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:12:09] I just liked his work and I saw he was a motion designer and I was like, oh, he could probably translate my work in a way that I would like it to be translated as like, you're probably right, I probably should. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:12:23] About the NFT aspect, but no one really was doing it, so it wasn't easy to find someone to collaborate with on who wasn't doing their own NFT. So I thought, I just need to find like another digital designer who'd be interested. So I reached out to him and we had a great chat and he was a bit like, Whoa, I don't know what you're talking about, so I'll go and look at it. And we ended up having a beautiful friendship and we came up with this idea Dreamscape, which was basically the whole concept was to take my work and make it sort of a meditative experience. And I really just gave him free rein to to do his, his sort of interpretation of it. So we had a lot of and do have a lot of respect for each other. But both of us on a very steep learning curve. 

Sophie: [00:13:17] I can imagine because I've met, he said, I expected this is someone that like have a complete idea of how to make digital and nfts move. But I didn't realise you've just reached out to someone that just was, you know, an artist of their own. I love that.

Tammy Kanat: [00:13:30] Well, I actually had to teach him how to get a wallet and get aethereal and all of that. So it was fun because, you know, it's something like you go on that journey together and you then really go for the highs and lows of it. 

Maddy: [00:13:46] The whole experience. 

Sophie: [00:13:48] How can you come on here before and say, you know, you don't know how to do tech? Joining on to a podcast thing, but you've got to it yourself about the NFT space. I now don't believe you. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:13:59] Hi guys. I have a confession. Yes, I did work out all of that. Like it depends how much I want it, but I do have to give some credit to my husband, Jonathan, because we would be out till two or three in the morning. I'd be torturing him. But we need to get a metamask. We go to get a wallet, we need to get.

Tammy Kanat: [00:14:17] Just oh my goodness. And then the other thing was then the paper, I sort of met a whole new community. It was like this whole like underground world. It was just unbelievable. And literally it goes 24 seven. Like I was exhausted. 

Sophie: [00:14:35] It's interesting that you say that because we have been told that, you know, the NFT space really does open you up to new communities. Are there any other reasons that you find NFT is valuable? Like, I understand that you, you know, felt like you had to jump into something new and you're excited to try it. But did you do this because you think there's a greater value in creating an effort? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:14:54] Okay, so I want to read something to you, which I actually just heard today, which I think is a. So when you're hearing, for instance NetEase had a massive gross growth in NAFTA sales reached 17.7 billion in 2021, up from 82.5 million in 2020. That's a jump of more than 200 times. So that was 22, 20, 22, 2021. So first of all, like, you know, as an artist, I was curious about what could my NFT do? How will people relate to them? How will they react? Can they have you know, I've been fortunate from my physical work to have an impact on people. Can I reinterpret it for the digital work to have the same impact? And put it this way, it's a lot easier on my hands. Let's be honest. You know, like it's different. It was a different mental, you know, it's still hard work creating it, but a different experience from from that tactile. But I think, you know, when you're kind of hearing figures like that, you just have to question like, what is this in the art market? And I'm kind of jumping here. The other thing, so I have to laugh. So I actually didn't only decide for a moment that I was going to do NFT. I was then going to be in the metaverse. I spoke to an architect who wanted to build a building in the metaverse. I'm not joking. So we're going to have a gallery in the metaverse with my NFT art on the wall. After I realised that was probably a little bit more than I could do. But I just, it was just never ending. And since and it still just continues to evolve. So there was so much to explore on this journey so far. 

Maddy: [00:16:48] And I have this idea to do a series of the podcast and it will be called something along the lines like things we know nothing about. And I think that the first episode has to be the metaverse, because it is just like whenever we start to go down this path and we get all excited and you start you think that you start learning and grasping it, and then it's like you read something about the metaverse and you just start all over again because it is just crazy. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:17:12] It is absolutely crazy. And but it's also incredible. And I don't know, I think if anyone's sceptical about it, which I know people are, I think the deeper that you get into it, the, the kind of the more the really you can say it is. I know that's not a word, but you know, you can say that it's there is something going on and you don't have to be a part of it. And if you are going to be a part of it, you're going to need a lot of energy and a lot of time.

Maddy: [00:17:45] So do you think that this space that nfts have been good for artists?

Tammy Kanat: [00:17:51] I think NFT have been absolutely incredible. For some artists, it has. I think the thing that I find really interesting about Nfts, it's very based on communities. So, you know, looking after each other, you know, when I was there, everyone was sort of buying each other's nfts and supporting each other, having like clubhouse rooms to pump each other up. So it's a much more community based. So the community looks after you as the NFT artist and as the NFT artist. You airdrop NFT to your community and you offer them lots of perks. So it really is an incredible world in that way. Whereas I think with physical art, you know, you know, with my physical art, I'm just really on my own and I'm waving and people are contacting me and it's it's much simpler. I really it's a much more solitary journey. Whereas I think the NFT, you really it's much more of a community base. 

Maddy: [00:18:48] I'm totally sold. I think it sounds awesome.

Tammy Kanat: [00:18:52] Yeah, it is. It's I think especially for a younger generation. It is. And you know, but they were also, you know, in, you know, people of the old generation also doing amazing things. But I still think that traditional artists, I think it's pretty clear that their success rate is not like people who've been in the digital art world. And I think that a lot of companies at the beginning thought they'd find all these top artists who they would then translate into digital art, and they slowly realised it isn't about that. It's like all these people who, you know, young kids, 18 year olds who are suddenly selling, you know, NFT for millions of billions at Christie's and Sotheby's who weren't original classic artists or traditional artists. So I think that's been a huge wake up call in the NFT world that artists who think they can jump into it, not so crazy. 

Sophie: [00:19:49] I think that's one of the things that Mads and I really realised when we were first speaking about Nfts and what the value was. I think we were compare trying to compare apples to apples, you know, art against nfts the same. Just ones in a digital format. And I think we've come to realise that all these conversations that we're having with people is that the community is a huge thing. And also for you, if you're a part of this community and can get your artwork in front of so many more people, then it must have so much more benefit. Not only so that you feel like you're a part of a community, but you kind of get to explore all new avenues of art with people that are around you. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:20:21] Absolutely. I mean, I think that I think, too, I don't I think that the the digital interpretation from my experience today, it doesn't feed my soul like the physical. And I, you know, I have to date, you know, I'm so glad I went down it, but it didn't give me that same satisfaction. But I also think I have seen some artists who really come up with some incredibly unique ideas. It's a different brain wave to normal art. That's all I can say. 

Sophie: [00:21:01] Or something that Matty and I might not understand. We would we would love to say that we do. But honestly, if you saw me draw a stick figure, you'd probably be disappointed to see that. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:21:09] Can I tell you that is a really good point of what you said. I was listening to a podcast today. Do you know you could draw a stick figure and do so well with interface? I'll tell you why. Because it's not about necessarily. Yeah, this is actually really it. It is about the community you build and what that stick figure offers and what is behind that stick figure. So it's not necessarily about the the image, it's what it's the utilities behind it. And that doesn't exist without you. Don't sell a piece of art and go, Wow, now you're part of a group that can go on yachts all over the world. Do you understand? So you become part of a group which doesn't. So the actual like, okay, how can I explain? So you could buy a stick figure. I mean, even the Border Club, like. Thank you. Yeah. Like, yeah. But, I mean, I wouldn't call them kind of like money or, you know, but it's the whole philosophy behind, which is really what NFT is, is about. And I don't think people realise the importance of the concept behind it.

Maddy: [00:22:20] My brain is ticking away and I'm thinking that we're going to like I'm imagining two stick figures. It's going to be the Y community in NFT land. It's going to we're going to work on it. We'll come back to that. 

Sophie: [00:22:32] It's like, how how can I make stick figure turn into yachts in Europe over summer? What? How does that work? Let's make that happen.

Maddy: [00:22:41] How can I finally become the artist that I dreamed of? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:22:45] Well, you've got y at least a yacht. Like, I'm sure we could work out something. 

Sophie: [00:22:50] Let's do a collaboration. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:22:56] I hope that, like, I'm giving you some. Like, I really do believe it's. The creativity is not in your image. The creativity is the concept behind it in the heart, behind it in a different way to the heart, behind physical art.

Maddy: [00:23:12] So now that we understand a bit more about the value of nfts in the art world, we are going to take a quick break for our sponsors. And we'll be right back to talk about how you can make and purchase nfts yourself. So if Sophie and I want to go and create our stick, figure out YIGC NFT, how do we actually create it? What are the steps to create the collection? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:23:39] I think the first thing I would say to anyone has to start with you've got to be on Twitter. That's where it pretty much all happens. It's moving over to Instagram a bit, but still, really, Twitter is the main area. Clubhouse is also a you know, that's also a lot of talk going on there and Twitter spaces. So that's a good starting point to inform yourself about what is going on in the NFT world. Once you've done that, you then really need to think about what and what it is that you are trying to share with your community. What are you offering them? So are you offering them a an ability to support a charity? You know, I think Deepak Chopra has a and if it's called NFT for goods, it's called Metta Seva. So he has an F tees. And the whole thing is about for not for profit industries. That's what he raises. Yeah. So so that's his. So really. And then there's one of my favourite and if is called World of Women, I don't know if you guys have heard of that. So I mean, this is something where I like to pinch myself because also while I was creating one, I was also buying NFT and I saw that come up and it was like that when it first came out and I was like, Oh, a little bit what you're saying, what is this? I can't picture the girl, but I didn't get it. And they have just gone. Observe. Like, I wish I bought one. Like I was so close to buying one. But their whole philosophy, which is actually again, so if you say when you're thinking about with NFT, the world of women, which I love, it's a community celebrating representation, inclusivity and equal opportunities for all. So according to research published in November 2021, female artists accounted for just 5% of all NFT art sales. And so World of Women is on a mission to change that, to get women more involved. So the first thing is to actually think about what message you want to put out there and what you want to share with people. And then you can go to the creative and you know, I sort of had my existing creative, but I needed it to evolve. So and then you can either digitally find the work yourself, whereas I found friend who did the motion, you know who did that design? Because I think you've also got to work out like, what is your skill like? You can't be everything. Well, some people can, but I think you got to focus on like what is your skill? Is your skill getting out there and sharing what you're doing or is your skill the creative or, you know, so what is your yeah, your skill. So that was sort of my process. I then shared it with my Instagram followers, which was pretty awesome. We had a great response. I think the hardest thing for me was the disparity between my physical art and the price of the NFT. That's always a bit of a hard one with an existing artist like how you prices. And I think the other thing was people trying to on board. So get a Metamask wallet. Yes. 

Sophie: [00:26:43] So that was actually going to be a question that I was going to ask. So when you dropped your first collection, I had signed up to your mailing list of how to buy an NFT because I had no idea. But I had followed your page and you sent out this really concise, like beautiful email of how what to do to sign up. So I guess I kind of wanted to understand like what were those steps and how does someone buy an NFT? Like where do they buy it from and how do they do that? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:27:13] So when you create an NFT, you have to choose what platform you want to create it. So you can use Opensea, which is your very kind of everyone's life and say, you know, you can be high and low and everything in between and then you've got more private platforms that you have to be invited to be part of. 

Sophie: [00:27:31] Oh, there's exclusive ones. I didn't know that. Yes. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:27:33] Oh, gosh. Yes, I. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:27:36] Oh, my God, there's lots there's superrare. There is there's also different platforms depending on which cryptocurrency you use. Yeah. So whether you use Ethereum or on each buyer, exactly how I decide to go on Opensea, I was going to try and keep it as simple as I could, and I really just sent out that email to share with everyone how to on board, which was get to go to Metamask to get a wallet to buy Ethereum, go into Opensea and then you could purchase it through there once you had your theorem, which sounds really easy, but not, you know. So I think until for the mass market, until nfts, you can just use your credit card, which I think it will get there. I think it's going to be very difficult because the people who. Didn't buy my NFT. It was a lot of work and it was talking them through. And, you know, a lot of people went on the waiting list for my NFT, but it was like whether you could get over the line to actually go through that process. 

Maddy: [00:28:45] Well, I mean, either they'll start accepting credit cards or, you know, things like Ethereum will be much more adopted by the general population. So it'll be interesting to see which sort of takes off fast, I guess. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:28:57] I think a lot of the platforms are looking at just some already do service, being able to accept credit cards to get it to the masses. But then people like, okay, I've got my NFT now what do I do with it? So then they've got to understand the concept. Why does it have value? It's a little bit like having a stamp collection that stamps go up. It's it does a lot to get your head around.

Maddy: [00:29:20] What was one of the most valuable things that you think you sort of learnt throughout this whole process? Getting involved in the digital world. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:29:28] I think being part of the art world in a different format and actually maybe appreciating how much I am grateful for the simplicity of what I do have got to sort of age, I guess, you know, I'm just being really honest. It was so much more complex than I could have imagined and it was such a rabbit hole and it was just relentless. And I still stay in contact with all the, you know, the people who I met. And I love that I met some awesome people and it's been incredible watching their journeys as they've developed the NFT. It's amazing to watch it. It really is. But I think I just it's just a great experience, like literally going on a crazy holiday time. 

Sophie: [00:30:20] I don't know if I'd call, like setting up an NFT and like doing all crazy hours to 2 a.m. in the morning on holiday. 

Maddy: [00:30:26] I mean, if it gets you on a yacht. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:30:29] But it's kind of that buzz. It's like you get a buzz from it. There is something like when you launch a NFT and you know, you've got them up there and it's it's a bit of a high that you do get. I know if someone buys one, it's like, wow, you know, like that there is that. But I think you it's like with anything, if you want to master anything, you've got to be passionate about it. And I think that to be a master of NFT, you just have to be all in. And I know lots of people who are and they just loving it and that's they're there for the ride, the highs and lows. 

Sophie: [00:31:06] I have to ask, do you know anyone that's bought your NFT and what they're doing with them? Because for context, anyone that doesn't hasn't seen your work before, they obviously are motion pieces and they're so beautiful. Do you know if anyone's using them in the gallery or in their house or are they just holding it for value? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:31:25] I think I'm not sure. I think someone is actually has put them up on their television. So they're actually that's said that's what their plan was. So it's just literally, you know, playing or still on their television. I have actually got arriving shortly, which I'm excited from token frames. They're frames that you can actually put the nfts on so that they can just play. So they come in all different sizes. So you can yet put them on the wall like just like a piece of art. So you just buy a big frame and it just plays it on the television. But I think it's, you know, to me, I wanted to cover a few things. I wanted to make it one of them to be beautiful. And I wanted to have a, you know, an energy that is representative of my work. And I wanted it to be an experience. But I also I wanted to be part of something that was new and happening as an artist. And I wanted people who got who took up the opportunity to buy one of my pieces if they just hold onto it, maybe being one of the earlier people who've got into this, it will be of a benefit. You know, down the track I bought quite a few nfts myself and I've also kept on held on to some of my own because I think in years to come, to be in that year when an NFT is first sort of started, it's pretty awesome. 

Maddy: [00:32:50] How I don't really want this chat to end because I'm really enjoying it. But I do have one final question for you. Do you have any recommendations for resources or any advice to someone who is really interested in learning more about this space, whether it be creating or buying and fees? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:33:09] My advice would be to there is it's called NFT Fish Tank, which is on Instagram. You can join that group and it's a group of people from. Yeah, well they're all over the world and it's, they meet on Thursday nights in clubhouse so they're on the Instagram that you can connect with them, but then they're on clubhouse and it's some really great speakers and everyone shares what they're up to. So I would definitely get on to that. And then the other and I can actually share that with you the link. And the other thing is definitely Twitter I would do and there's also a I think it's based originally from RMIT Mount Token she has an Instagram and they've actually the last couple of nights I think everyone's running tonight. People sharing and talking about NAFTA. So I think that would be really good, you know, good starting points to to get involved. 

Sophie: [00:34:06] I feel like once you also follow a couple of these accounts, it's really easy to find many more because they just post all the time. So it's easy to find that, like community that you've been speaking about. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:34:17] Absolutely. 

Sophie: [00:34:18] Tammy, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode. We've absolutely loved hearing about your process of creating an FTA. Before we go, is there anywhere that you would like to plug where people could find out more about you, your art, or your NFTs? 

Tammy Kanat: [00:34:33] The best areas probably do go to Instagram, which is Tammy cannot, and you'll find out what I'm up to and I'll share from shopping any new NFT or if what I'm up to with my work. And there's always new and exciting things happening. 

Maddy: [00:34:50] Very exciting. Tammy, thank you so much for joining us. We have loved chatting to you and we highly recommend everyone going to check that out. 

Tammy Kanat: [00:34:57] Thank you. So lovely to chat with you both and just share the NFT journey and hope that it's been useful to others. 

Sophie: [00:35:04] Thanks, Tammy. I love getting an artist perspective on this whole space. I think these conversations have really opened up the fact that community is really important in this NFT space and I love that it is really doing, you know, justice for people that are in this area, who are artists who want to, you know, get more out of their art and like share it with more people. And so I think conversations like these really like bring it down. It's not just what we used to think. It was like, I am putting digital art on a TV screen. It's like so much more than that. 

Maddy: [00:35:34] I was going to say, I think we've come a long way from our text message conversation, which was like, I don't get it. You just screenshot it and print it out. Marcia Clark I really understand now the value and the utility behind it phase, which is kind of cool. 

Sophie: [00:35:50] I also think people must have thought it was so ignorant, like which we were like, I'm going to admit to that. Like, imagine like now seeing and be like, No, guys, this is our community out there. 

Maddy: [00:36:01] Very good. Well, if you do have any questions about today's episode, we would love to hear them. So please DMS on Instagram at why say podcast or jump into our Facebook group? YIGC Investing Podcast Discussion group. We will have a thread in there where we can discuss our thoughts or answer the questions that come through. 

Sophie: [00:36:21] And if you're willing and able, please leave us a review. It helps us reach more willing and able. Just like you. We would love to hear your thoughts as well. Feedback is always great for us, so please do so. 

Maddy: [00:36:33] You're going to ask for donations then it's going to really you off. Tell us if you are willing and able, please do that. 

Sophie: [00:36:38] Donate to our NFT fund. That's coming up. It's going to create stick figures and get us all on Soviets. So let's go. 

Maddy: [00:36:45] Love it. Well, thank you so much. And we'll catch you next week. 

Sophie: [00:36:47] Bye.