It’s time Australians wake up to their super | John Winters, Superhero

HOSTS Alec Renehan & Bryce Leske|6 August, 2021

Brought to you by Superhero

Meet your hosts

  • Alec Renehan

    Alec developed an interest in investing after realising he was spending all that he was earning. Investing became his form of 'forced saving'. While his first investment, Slater and Gordon (SGH), was a resounding failure, he learnt a lot from that experience. He hopes to share those lessons amongst others through the podcast and help people realise that if he can make money investing, anyone can.
  • Bryce Leske

    Bryce has had an interest in the stock market since his parents encouraged him to save 50c a fortnight from the age of 5. Once he had saved $500 he bought his first stock - BKI - a Listed Investment Company (LIC), and since then hasn't stopped. He hopes that Equity Mates can help make investing understandable and accessible. He loves the Essendon Football Club, and lives in Sydney.

As part of our Super Saturdays series, Alec and Bryce sit down with John Winters – the CEO and Co-founder of Superhero. John is super passionate about the superannuation space, and he talks to Alec and Bryce about why that is, the low engagement Australians have with their super, and how he thinks Superhero’s new product can radically change this. The statistics show that John isn’t wrong – 17% of Australians do not know what type of fund their superannuation is with! So give this a listen, and help us give you the tools to wake up, and feel like you can take more control of your super.

Pre order the book on Booktopia or Amazon now. 

If you want to let Alec or Bryce know what you think of an episode, contact them here

This episode was brought to you by Superhero Super

1 in 3 under 45 rarely or never check their superannuation, even though for many of us it will be the largest asset we will have outside of our own home. This is a statistic that Superhero is determined to change.

Superhero Super offers customers the ability to choose how their super is invested, without the need for an SMSF. With Superhero, you can invest up to 75% of your super directly in ASX 300 shares and ETFs. Are you passionate about climate change and renewable energy? Cloud computing, battery technology or Ecommerce?

For those who want control and transparency over their superannuation, Superhero allows you to create your portfolio in the palm of your hand and manage your investments alongside your regular investing portfolio.  

Invest in what you’re invested in with Superhero Super. For more information, click here.

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Bryce: [00:00:15] Welcome to Super Saturday and Equity Mates media series on superannuation proudly brought to you by super heroes who are now disrupting traditional super on their platform with recent government changes to super legislation here in Australia, 100 billion of Australians money in underperforming super products. And a lot of people feeling a little in the dark when it comes to their super Equity Mates media in partnership with superhero are going to shine a light on the super industry with the aim of making Australians wake up and take control of their super over three Saturdays and four different shows will be bringing you all the information that you need to help you take more control. So don't miss it. Make sure you subscribe to Equity Mates Get Started Investing feed comedian v economist. And you're in good company now. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How are you going? [00:01:01][45.8]

Alec: [00:01:01] I'm very good. Bryce last week in our first episode of Super Saturday, I had to be the host and do the intro. So I'm very glad that you're back on board and I can sit in the passenger seat as you drive this car forward. [00:01:16][14.5]

Bryce: [00:01:17] Yeah, good to be back. Ren felt a bit awkward and a bit weird not being involved in last week's episode. But look, here we are and ready to get stuck in to talk things supah. And we are welcoming back co-founder and CEO of superhero John Winters to help us through it. John, welcome. Hey, guys. Good to be back. Great to have you back. So, John, today we're going to really go back to where it all started for you, which was in the early days of forming superhero, because when we very first met you, you're you really started to talk about your gripe with superannuation, I guess, and how you think more can be done to give Australians a little bit more control and transparency with what is going on. So superhero's name is obviously a bit of a hint for those that don't already know. [00:02:06][49.1]

John: [00:02:08] A few people did ask, how did you come up with the name superhero before? Before Super was out of the bat? [00:02:13][4.6]

Bryce: [00:02:14] Smiled a long time thinking you and Wayne, the co-founder, originally started superheroes, a way for people to manage their superannuation. And it's clear from the many conversations we've had, as I said, that you're quite passionate about this space. So let's start at the beginning. What are some of the issues that you have with the Super eight animation industry? Take a deep breath. [00:02:39][25.7]

John: [00:02:43] Well, I first of all, I think the superannuation industry is. It's there for the right reason for us to it's forced saving for for time. And so I think that the theory behind it is is correct. I think politics and and capitalism has gotten in the way and control has gotten in the way and not not the right type of control. So I think to start off, I think my biggest issue with superannuation is default super. And default super. So this is this is the my super products and default super, it's being changed at the moment. The recent bill passed by the government went a long way to helping Australians. But if you think of default, super. If you start a job and you don't choose what super fund you go into. You get defaulted into the company super fund. So that means Karen in H.R. is making the decision, the financial decision for your retirement. Obviously a fundamental issue with that, but that's 10 percent of your salary every single month going into a financial product that you chose not to have a say on and you gave the choice to someone else, or do they have a financial that they have a degree in understanding what fits you appropriately? I don't I don't think so. Maybe in some cases they do, but but that's someone making a financial decision about your future. And I just think that you should make that choice. And if you don't have the capability to make that choice, you should be you should be incentivized because it's a serious amount of money to go and do some research on it or get advice on where it should go. So I think I think Default Soopers is the biggest issue. The other issue is, is is with us. It's it's trained helplessness is what I say. It's it's that we've been we've been taught by the industry to hand over 10 percent of our salary every month to someone, you know, in a gray, crusty suit who says who says, well, we'll take it from here. You give us the 10 percent of your salary every month. We'll invest it for you. But we're not going to tell you. We're not going to tell you what we invest in, because that's not for you to know, even though it's your money and the fees. Well, we will disclose the fees to you. But is it full disclosure? I guess that's that's also what the government is working to, to to shine some light on to make sure that there is full disclosure around the underlying costs of the fund. So, you know, if I said to you guys, give me 10 percent of your salary and I'll invest it for you, I'm a stockbroker, all invested for you. You'd probably get this off like, you know, no one in their right mind would do that. But every single Australian working Australian does it every day. And I think that is that is the thing that we need to wake up about. We need to we need to take some control. And that doesn't necessarily mean using that control. It's making sure that you are aware of where your super is, what you're invested in and what it's costing you. So, yeah, those are those would be my two big things, default is one and the other one is is having a say on where where your soup is going. [00:06:03][200.6]

Alec: [00:06:04] I think I think that point around the apathy of a lot of Australians when it comes to so, you know, it's so it's decades before we can access it. It's not very transparent. So we just don't really think about it. It's not it's not front of mind. It's definitely something that rings true for me. And I'm sure it rings true for a lot of the Equity Mates community. And I guess that's why we've called this series. Well, you know, the theme of this series is Australians need to wake up. But I guess if we if we take those problems, you know, the default supah of the apathy of a lot of Australians and we asked, you know, what are the actual like other negative outcomes that come from those problems? Like how does how does the problems that you've identified translate into outcomes for everyday Australians? [00:06:49][44.4]

John: [00:06:49] Well, I think it's it's not even like throwing a dart at a dartboard. You're giving the dart to someone else to throw at the dartboard. So how would you even know if you've gone into an underperforming fund, if you've never looked at it and you didn't know you didn't make a choice on whether to invest in. So those are the negative outcomes you do. You know, there's some funds that perform fantastically, which is great for for members, but there's some funds that that don't. And if you've never looked, you could have been for the last 10 years, you could have been in one of those underperforming funds instead of getting 10 or 15 per cent per year for the last 10 years. So it makes a big difference. So, yeah, I think I think that not having that say is the biggest the biggest challenge in this industry is apathy. That is the biggest challenge. It doesn't matter which fund it is. It's us as people. And it's that trained helplessness, I reckon, to put [00:07:46][56.7]

Alec: [00:07:46] to put some numbers to to that. The government, as part of our recent legislative changes, released our report on super industry and underperforming funds. So three point one trillion dollars of assets in super 100 billion dollars worth of that of Australians money is in underperforming super products. 27 percent of Australians have more than one super fund account. And I think it's about three million accounts are in underperforming super products. It's massive numbers, [00:08:19][32.6]

John: [00:08:20] massive three million accounts in underperforming super. There's only 10 or 12 million people in the workforce. Mhm. So it gives you an idea. [00:08:27][7.7]

Alec: [00:08:28] Yeah. Yeah. More than a quarter of Australians have multiple super accounts, which means they're paying multiple sets of fees, potentially multiple sets of insurances. [00:08:36][7.9]

John: [00:08:38] But that's but that's some of the issues that this, this super bill and a lot of people here superannuation and they just switch off. So please don't switch off it. And it can seem boring that it's going to get so much better. I think that's what that's what the government's been trying to to stop is if you if you went and got a job at Coles as enterprise agreements that say you have to be an X, Y, Z super fund, but if you work a second job as a as a waiter on the weekend, you're not allowed to contribute that second job super into the same super fund. Coles So you have to have two funds. And this is the way all of these funds have built so many accounts and why people have multiple accounts and that that superannuation bill that's just been passed has has taken a step to stop that. So it's called stapling and it basically staples your super fund to you. So when you move from Coles and you go and work at at Jimmy's Falafel, I couldn't think of anything else. You can you can get paid instead of having to default into the employer chosen default fund. [00:09:44][66.7]

Alec: [00:09:45] You mentioned that people switch off when they hear the word super and they they're apathetic towards it. But in this government report, they made it very clear what the real world practical outcome of being in an underperforming fund could be, which was ninety eight thousand dollars worse off in retirement. And compared to just the average fund, which is, you know, if you if someone said, I'll give you one hundred thousand dollars when you retire, if you spend, you know, half an hour doing a bit of research, you'd probably take that deal every time. [00:10:17][32.1]

John: [00:10:18] Yeah, I reckon the real number would probably be higher than that. You know, I think that's probably a statistical number, but I think I think it is probably higher, like you take into account years of performance. You know, that's probably to a benchmark. You take into account years of performance, years of lower fees, years of not paying two sets of insurance or multiple sets of insurance. You know, the outcome would be massive. Mhm. But yeah, people, people just sort of switch off and don't worry about it. [00:10:44][25.9]

Bryce: [00:10:44] So when we're talking about constructing these episodes, it's obviously became clear that the key message was for Australians to wake up. What do you really mean by wake up. And then I guess the follow to that is what should Australians be doing to actually wake up? [00:11:01][16.5]

John: [00:11:02] Well, I think I think the if if you've gone with default super, it's make sure you you you look at where you're invested, where you're soopers invested. So. So just to talk about super doesn't it doesn't it's a it's a major asset for anyone who's been in the workforce. So if it's your first job, you've probably got more money in super than you know, or you may have more money in super than you have in savings. If you've been in in a row for for a year or two. And it grows as you as you stay in the workforce. You know, I think it's I think it's making sure you're aware of where that money is going to invest it getting invested. You know, if you're trading shares, if you're investing in shares or ETFs, whether it's on super hero or it's elsewhere, you're making a decision to invest in something. It's the same for super. You are making a decision to invest your super into a managed fund, typically into a managed fund. And the difference is the brand name on the on the on the annual statement, you know, whether it's an industry fund, whether it's a retail fund, maybe you're part of a self managed super fund with your family, but you're making a conscious decision on where that gets invested. A lot of people are making an unconscious decision. They're not making the decision. They're letting someone else. So I think it's really having a look at where your soopers invested. Having a look at where the where the the performance has been in the past versus other funds, and if you're in one of those underperforming funds, get the hell out of there, go somewhere else that's performing well. And it's not it doesn't necessarily mean future. Is that old saying future performance or past performance is not a reflection of future performance, but it shows the quality of the of the managers that can that can have a big impact over time. [00:12:56][114.0]

Alec: [00:12:57] Now, people might be wondering where they you know, they're starting to wake up. They're they're hearing this. And I can certainly say that I'm one of those Australians that needed to wake up when I was preparing for these episodes. So I'm very much in that boat. The question then becomes like, where? Where do you go to look? And I think we should give the government credit for this reason, this bill that they've passed, because they've definitely increased transparency a lot. So aside from this new government website, which you can I think it's on its website, where else should people be going to look if they're like, all right, now's the time, I'm going to wake up? [00:13:39][41.9]

John: [00:13:40] Yeah, I think I think the thing about super is, for the most part, you're investing in a managed fund. That's that's what it is. So whether you're with AMP, a colonial Idabelle of Aussie Super House plus HESTA, whatever it is, you're investing in a managed fund. So, you know, looking looking at those funds across the market, you can you can get you can you can do some analysis on either the government websites. There's a bunch of comparison sites as well to see what the fees are, to see what past performances. But then there's an entire investing universe out there as well. So what what's the stock market done? What has what is Ozzy shares done, what has the US market done, and I tell you, the Vanguard Aussie Share Index ETF returned over 25 per cent in the 12 months to 30 June. I think the top performing industry fund returned 20 percent. So that's looking at a single asset class versus a diversified managed fund. But there's but there's all sorts of different investments that you can invest in. And whether you're using money from your pocket that you saved from your salary or you using your superannuation, you should be able to invest across multiple asset classes rather than just in a single option. [00:15:01][81.4]

Bryce: [00:15:03] So then I guess the next question in this probably flows to the next part of the conversation. But if if you are an Australian that does want to take a little bit more control, barring the products that you guys have launched, which is amazing, how should how should Australians be approaching the task of actually investing their super or actually taking more control? [00:15:25][22.5]

John: [00:15:26] Well, I think to two big pieces of superannuation for us is a is is control. The B is transparency. So I think the thing that the thing to keep, keep in your mind is this is your money. It's not someone else's money. Don't let someone else tell you what you can and can't do with it. You should be able to move it elsewhere if you want to. But when it comes to control, you know, that that certainly that same same rings true to to the underlying investments as well. So looking at the different looking at the different benefits that you get from each from each fund is key. And just so just so we're all aware, balanced growth, conservative, those are those are not investments. Those are risk profiles. You are not invested in balanced. That is a risk profile based on how you want to invest. But it goes back to that sort of the training that we've been getting from the industry for so long that if you went and had a look like I'm invested in the balanced fund [00:16:32][66.3]

Bryce: [00:16:33] for those of the Equity Mates community who may not have actually opened their annual statement and really have any idea what you're talking about, this is probably one of the more common things that we're told by super funds is make sure you're in the right investment sort of profile strategy for you are able to actually elaborate on what the balanced, you know, growth like. Where are you seeing that? [00:16:56][22.9]

John: [00:16:57] Yeah, sure. So just just to go through the sort of the meaning of that. So if if you've got a balanced fund, that typically means that means you're anywhere from 50 per cent growth, 50 per cent diversified in terms of asset allocation, up to the the definition on the ASX website is 70 per cent growth, 30 per cent defensive right the way through to some of the some of the the industry and retail funds that are out there that somehow determine 93 per cent of your assets in growth and seven per cent in defensive is somehow balanced. There's there's you know, there's a range of different things you should look at. So you will see if you go and log into to your superannuation account or if you look on the the annual statement, it will tell you what fund you're invested in based on the risk profile, which, you know, is balanced. It's a balanced index. It's a growth high growth, conservative, aggressive. There's a whole range of different names that they come up with them. They don't actually give you any transparency on what you are invested in. It's more just the risk profile that you're allocated. But if you are if you're young, you're you're, you know, building a career and you're invested in very conservative funds or a very conservative fund, then you're not going to get the typical sort of performance over your career that you should. So it's important to make sure that that does fit your risk profile and your sort of your stage of life. And a lot of people may not sort of know where where they should be sitting. A lot of a lot of funds and and government websites do give you some education around that. You know, so the first thing is just having a look, just just open open their annual statement, log into super. I think that's the sort of the first step everyone is to take. [00:19:00][123.4]

Alec: [00:19:01] I don't even get the choice of conservative, balanced or aggressive in my fund. I just put the year I was born. And then it's like that's all we'll tell. That's all. That's all. I don't talk to us again. [00:19:12][11.4]

John: [00:19:14] Just give us the cash and walk away. [00:19:16][1.9]

Alec: [00:19:18] So, John, that, you know, we sort of set up the problem. Here there's another there's structural problems with the industry and then there's, I guess, a cultural problem among Australians, and then I guess the question becomes, well, what are you doing about it? Because are you you care a lot about this issue and you are doing something. So you want to tell us a little bit about that? [00:19:42][23.7]

John: [00:19:42] Yeah. So just to be clear, I just want people to to acknowledge that it's their money and to make a conscious decision of what they do. Obviously, I'd love them to sign it to superhero super. But but it's it's really sort of not even about that. The first step is is is just breaking down down that apathy in the space. So, yeah, talk about talk about superhero super maybe where it sort of all started and then can sort of take take people on on the journey that we've been on. So we started a superhero just over three years ago. And the reason was I was a stockbroker at the time. Zipp had recently iPod and I was fortunate to be part of that process and had a number of of the new employees at Zipp. They scaled very quickly. They had a huge amount of new employees and they were saying, well, we want to buy some Zipp shares. So went through the arduous task of setting up an account and they didn't have a huge amount of cash. There were you know, there were young starting their careers on this massive growth train, want to get on board financially, but didn't have cash. So they were saying, can we use our super to buy some of these shares? And short of having a self managed super fund, which you have to go to an accountant and get advice and get a fund set up and the costs and everything that sort of comes with it. And the biggest the biggest piece to that is is running all of the administration yourself, which is a pretty I've got a self managed super fund. It's a pain in the neck. And yeah, to set to set one up after you've been in the workforce for only a couple of years. This is sort of prohibitive. So the question was us, how do we allow people to set up an account? With superhero keep their funds, their superannuation funds within the superannuation environment, but allow them to choose what they are invested in. That was the the thing that we needed to solve. That was the problem we needed to solve. So we went about building it and it took three years to get all of the systems built, all of the systems audited, discussions with regulators and getting through all of the the I guess, the red tape that exists in this country. And, you know, looking back, that red tape, it's there for a reason. It is. It's hard. Because it should be at the end of the day, this is this these are people's life savings, so there should be a huge amount of regulation around it. But yeah, fast forward three years and we've launched a product that allows you to seamlessly roll your funds from an existing industry, a retail super fund into a super regulated public office superhero super account. So you get a you get a superhero super member. No, we've got a USA. We've got all of the checks and balances in place that you'd have with a traditional super fund. But instead of going into that balanced or growth option, you can choose to invest in individual Aussie shares that 150 ETFs and the ASX 300 directly. So you could go and buy ZIP, you could go and invest in Afterpay. You could go and invest in the ETFs that have been very popular in your community and on superheros. Well, directly with your super. So you've got that control. But the key thing is to have that transparency as well, to be able to see what you're invested in, know what you're invested in, and see what you're paying in fees. Hmm. [00:23:22][219.8]

Bryce: [00:23:23] So, you know, in preparation for this episode, we had to look at all the choices that were out there. As you've already mentioned, retail. There's the corporate, there's the industry. And then within those providers as well, there's many different super products which then all have the ability to change between balanced, as we've already spoken about, conservative, et cetera. How is superheros simplifying that and what are the options when you actually get into to actually start taking a bit more control? [00:23:53][29.9]

John: [00:23:54] Yeah, sure. So we've got two account types. So when when you set up your account, you can choose between two account types. One is autopilot. So just to talk to to that one, we. We. Effectively or to set up an automatic investment process, so when you're when your contributions come in from your employer, your your contributions are automatically invested into the investments that you choose. So to run through some of those investments, we've made a a minimum go into a global diversified index portfolio. So that the underlying investment then we're fully transparent about about all of the investments on the platform, the underlying investment is the Vanguard Diversified Balance Index ETF. So that's a 50 per cent weighting towards growth, 50 percent towards defensive assets. And then you can add in US tech, which is the underlying is the beta shares, NASDAQ 100 ETF Asia Tech, which is the Asia tech target's global health care, global sustainability, gold and high interest cash. So all of them are underlying ETFs. So you can choose to allocate up to 30 percent across those diversified underlying ETFs. So if you wanted to go 10 percent into Nasdaq, 100, 10 percent into Asia Tech and 10 percent into cash, you could. So what you're basically doing is you're waiting up on the on the growth or defensive characteristics of your portfolio. And then our system will automatically invest you across those portfolios as you get contributions. So you can always see what the underlying investments are. You can go and research the underlying ETFs and see what are the what are the top 100 holdings on the Nasdaq. You can see all of that. So it's fully, fully transparent. So those that that's for people who who want to take control but may not want the granular day to day decisions of of managing their overall investments. So that's autopilot to talk to the fees we charge Dollars a week plus point four nine percent admin fee. So it's pretty low cost. When we look at the other account, it's called control and this one gives you more control. So so what what what it does is we've made sure that we've that we basically force a level of diversification. So we want people to have a level of diversification in the portfolio. So we've got a minimum of 25 percent in that in that vanguard balanced index fund. So that what we call it's the the global diversified index portfolio, you could go 50 50. You're getting 100 percent if you wanted to. But but the minimum is 25 percent. And then the 75 per cent that you've got, you can invest in individual shares. So you could invest in anything in the ASX 300. You can invest in about 150 different ETFs as well listed on the ASX so you can build your own portfolio. So it's just like having a super hero account. No us, no US shares to start off, but you can go and build your own your own portfolio of Aussie shares. The same five dollar brokerage rate applies so you can you can build up your own portfolio. There are limits on individual shares so that 75 per cent you've got, you can't go and stick that all into Afterpay. So to have [00:27:25][210.8]

Bryce: [00:27:26] that plan is [00:27:28][2.4]

John: [00:27:29] what we've seen across. You know, we've been pretty close to the zevin Afterpay guys across our journey and across their journey as well. And, you know, in buying our Pelada and lending as a whole, there's this this thing called responsible lending. And we've taken that approach to to investing for super. So we've got this responsible investing layer and we'll continue to build on that to help people diversify their portfolio, make better investment decisions for the long term. And this is for this is for retirement. But the thing that we're doing is we're making a super tangible now. So which which is huge. And that's where the apathy comes in. Like people don't think about it because they can't do anything with it for 60 years. We give you the option to do something with it today. But we have to make sure that you are making responsible investment decisions. So there's limits on individual stocks, there's limits on on sectors, on different groups of shares, which is it's all displayed to you on the on the on the user interface. You don't have to you know, you want to sort of get blocked from certain things. It'll tell you why and when. But, yeah, it's it's intuitive and it helps you build a diversified portfolio over the long term. [00:28:40][70.4]

Alec: [00:28:40] And what are the fees the same with as autopilot. [00:28:44][3.3]

John: [00:28:44] So the fees are the same. We just we charge two dollars a week instead of a dollar a week plus point for nine per cent. [00:28:49][4.9]

Alec: [00:28:50] Now, Adam, one of the co-hosts of Canadian Bay Economist, told us this story, how he tried to day traders super, which I honestly don't know how it did that in a traditional account. But do you worry that people like Adam are going to they're going to crack the charts out and try and trade their way to a comfortable retirement? [00:29:10][20.1]

John: [00:29:11] I think there's always going to be a group of people who, you know, there's going to be some individuals that do do that. There's there's the ability to do it. We're not going to stop you. It's your money. At the end of the day, you know, we believe this is your money. You should make the decision. You can't withdraw any of your super the same rules. Reply with with traditional slippers, you can't pull your super out. The same rules apply to contributions as well. You can't just move money in and out willy nilly. But if you wanted to move between if you're at a at another super fund and you wanted to move daily between balanced and growth, you could it's probably not a wise decision. And it's the same thing for trading shares. If you wanted to trade your super, it's you know, I think long term investing know it's time in the market always beats timing the market. And the same applies. Doesn't really matter what source of funds you're using. That same rule always applies. [00:30:03][52.8]

Alec: [00:30:04] Hmm. I think that's how Adam tried to do it, switching between like aggressive and conservative. But there was like a two or three day delay on the change. So it was it sounded like a mess, to be honest. [00:30:14][9.8]

John: [00:30:17] Topping the market, the [00:30:18][1.6]

Bryce: [00:30:20] second set match on. We should also make it clear that throughout this whole series that we've been doing with you guys, you know, we've made it pretty clear that the passive approach is the right approach for some people. But just to make sure that you're optimizing the best you can if you are going to go down that route. We're talking about phase. We're talking about looking at the insurance's. We're talking about comparing performance between funds. So, of course, you know, this isn't to say that what we are offering now is the best approach for everyone when it comes to superannuation. But it's just great to see that there is now an option available for those that do want to take a bit more control. When when you're thinking about this product, who are the type of people that I guess you expect to see take up this product, you know, when you launch now that it has launched, [00:31:12][51.7]

John: [00:31:13] I think the sort of the go to market is probably our existing superior customer base. These are people who are familiar with with investing or have started their investment journey. We see a huge amount of people coming onto the platform and buying, you know, two or three key ETFs. And we can run through what what those look like in terms of the data and then adding, you know, a couple, you know, a couple or a handful of individual shares to to bolster that. And typically, those shares are not, you know, whispers micro lithium miners, you know, the big established companies. And even if you look at, you know, zip and Afterpay, you know, Afterpay is in the top 20. Zipper things in the top 100, you know, the big established companies, so so building building a portfolio is something that I think a lot of people would love to do with with their super. So I think yeah, I think the go to market is is people who are already familiar with investing in shares in ETFs. [00:32:18][65.0]

Alec: [00:32:19] One area of the market that I'm going to be particularly interested in is people who are currently self managing their supah, because as you mentioned before, it's an administrative headache to do all of that. And if you can offer a very similar functionality without any of the paperwork or any of the, you know, tax and all accounting and all of that, it'll be interesting to see if people switch back to a to a super fund and just take control through your platform. [00:32:47][28.7]

John: [00:32:48] If you look at some of the data, it's about 80 per cent of self managed super assets are in Aussie shares. So there's a huge amount of demand in the space that is already in, like the self managed world. It is an interesting point, though, just to talk about the tax and reporting and how it's all sort of managed. So in a traditional super fund, you would you would not do any of the tax. They do it all for you. They send a member statement. It's the same in superhero. So you have to choose the underlying investments. You have to choose what you want to invest in. But we handle all of the administration. We handle all of the tax reporting, all of your income and franking credits and the fund as a whole. Does the tax are you are taxed individually as an individual person, but you don't have to worry about the end of your tax return like you would with a self managed super fund, just like you would if you were with AMP or Aussie Super. So that's a key difference. We do give you full portfolio reports, transaction reports. We give you all the realized and unrealized capital gains and income reports as well for your own records. You don't need to give those to your accountant because the fund handles all the tax on your behalf. So that administrative burden really is lifted. [00:33:58][70.0]

Alec: [00:33:59] So it's a pretty disruptive product. You know, traditionally there was two choices at the opposite end of the spectrum. You either self managed and dealt with all those headaches that you were just talking about or you went with a fund and you had no headaches, but you couldn't say what was going on either. And, you know, you're really trying to, I guess, break that those two choices and create a third choice. What's the reception been like from the industry? You are getting invited to the industry, cocktail parties and the like. [00:34:31][31.5]

John: [00:34:32] And it's it's early days. But, yeah, look, it is it is disruptive. And I think there are a lot of there's a lot of underperforming funds out there. And there's a lot of there's a lot of people who who want that control and delivering a product that gives you the control, whether you want to use it or not, is up to you. You've still got the control if you want to use it with us. But, yeah, I think it's going to be I think as it as it grows, I think it will be disruptive. And it'll be it'll be interesting to see what the the industry's response will be as a whole as well. Hopefully, it's more transparent, super, yes. [00:35:08][35.9]

Bryce: [00:35:11] Well, John, I think, you know, there's no doubt that across this series, as we've said, we've really just tried to alert Australians to the fact that, as you've mentioned many times, you're giving 10 percent of your pay to someone to go and invest, really without you knowing where it's going or having much say in your hard earned dollars. And as we've clearly highlighted, superannuation is one of the biggest assets that people will have when it comes to retirement. So whatever route you take now, be it optimizing your passive approach to the to the best option, that's best, you know, that's possible. Or starting to think more actively about how you want to manage it yourself. I think, as I said, what you guys are doing is great. And I guess we thank you for your time today and for the disruption that you're causing and can't wipe the smile off Alex face because he's looking forward to getting stuck into it. [00:36:04][53.1]

John: [00:36:07] Just remember that time in the market. This is timing the market. [00:36:09][2.6]

Alec: [00:36:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to be the person that manages to go backwards in this super account. I tried to learn that they tried to chase. [00:36:19][9.1]

Bryce: [00:36:20] And I think, look, yeah, we're, I guess, thankful for allowing us to do this series as well, because it's not only have Alec and I certainly reviewed our own superannuation and we're where we're at, but I think, you know, we've really highlighted to the Equity Mates community that they need to certainly give it a lot more thought. So much time and energy and excitement goes into building personal portfolios, but with so much money sitting in super, it's the same sort of diligence. Should should certainly be given to that side of investing as well. So thanks for your time and thanks for doing what you're doing. [00:36:56][35.7]

John: [00:36:57] Thank you, guys. Thanks for the [00:36:58][1.0]

Alec: [00:36:58] support. And before we close, we should say if people want to check out Super Heroes, super offer, is it still just super hero dotcom Dollars you? [00:37:06][8.2]

John: [00:37:06] Yeah. Severeid, I'll come to that. You can jump on the app as well. You can see all the details there to know. Yeah, the sign up process is pretty, pretty frictionless. We give you all the details during the sign up process as well. So transparency is really the key thing that comes with it. [00:37:22][15.8]

Bryce: [00:37:22] Nice. Well, thanks for your time. We'll catch up again soon. [00:37:25][2.6]

John: [00:37:26] Thanks, guys. [00:37:26][0.0]

[2176.9]

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