Fast growing healthcare companies | Jess Bell-Allen

Maddy: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome to You're In Good Company. A podcast makes investing accessible for everyone. I'm Maddy and as always, I'm in some very good company with my co-host, Sophie. 

Sophie: [00:00:31] Hello, Mads. I'm so excited for today's episode because we do a bit of a deep dive into the health care industry and it's kind of nice to have a look at like an overview, but also divulge that, you know, word that we've been hearing a lot about, which is medtech. 

Maddy: [00:00:45] Yeah, I think this is an area that has been changing super rapidly over the last couple of years with COVID. But I think probably the most exciting thing is what's really ahead of us now and where are the opportunities in this industry is are going to keep growing at this really fast pace. So when you dive into all of those things with Jess today, she is a bit of an expert in the area and I have to say it is a very exciting job today. Really excited to be joined by Jess Bell Allen, a member of the investment team at TDM Growth Partners. TDM is a high conviction. Long term growth investment firm started over 17 years ago with just $1 million and a compound capital at north of 25% per annum, since to have around $2 billion under management today. TDM invest in both private and public companies around the world with a focus on companies that are run by outstanding management teams, have large growth opportunities and have clear and growing competitive advantages now and into the future. According to the stadium website, despite her many years working in finance, Jess will readily admit that her personal investment strategy to date has not been what one might consider fiscally sound, holding a highly concentrated position in her wardrobe, Jess has a particular interest in opportunities in the health care industry, which is what we are very excited to be talking to her about today. Welcome. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:02:03] Thanks for having me, guys. I can't wait to chat through all. 

Sophie: [00:02:06] So Jess, we always start off in the same way. Am I going to ask you what is the best thing that's happened to you this week? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:02:12] Yeah, well we'll just chatting before. I think the the right answer I have to give was spending time with my family for a big, big birthday, Mother's Day and all those sorts of celebrations. So having lived abroad, as you mentioned, for a long time, and even interstate travel being so challenging in the recent years, even though I have been back in Australia, that was kind of really special to have that opportunity and I'm kind of increasingly appreciating them as I get older. But I think the the answer I would otherwise give and this is cheating a bit, pushing out two weeks out. So I was just in Toronto meeting one of our portfolio companies that we invested in at the end of last year. So the whole process was done over Zoom. And so it was the first time I got to meet them and the people in person. There were lots of hugs. It was really exciting, really awesome. And I think, you know, we mentioned at TDM one of the core tenets of our investment philosophy is people and culture and you just can't make up for being in person. Zoom only goes so far. So to get past the screen and be there and experience the culture in person and get a real sense for what they're building was just awesome. 

Maddy: [00:03:21] I completely agree with that. And I must say it would be very nice to get on a long haul flight right about now as well. I never thought I would say that, but I'm actually just craving sitting on a plane for like 24 hours. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:03:33] It was great. And you just kind of train out of work, watch a bunch of movies. I loved it. 

Maddy: [00:03:38] Great. And if you could have dinner with anyone, who would it be and why? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:03:43] Yeah. So I was listening to your episode from last week with Chantal, and she stole my answer. It was Gabrielle Chanel. I think she's phenomenal and I loved how she just completely changed the mood of women's fashion and was just a real pioneer and set up this incredible platform that's built a brand that's been enduring forever. But I did come up with an answer as well, which was and this is a bit of a funny one, it's Winnie the Pooh. So I was like, I was always obsessed with Winnie the Pooh as a kid. I loved just all the different characters, how they represented different facets of kind of human behaviour, but it's just a really chill guy that focuses on what's most important in life, which is kind of friends and supporting those around you. And I think there's a lot I could learn from him just by sharing, you know, product honey or something. 

Sophie: [00:04:31] Just lazing around all day eating honey. I love that. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:04:35] Sounds great. 

Sophie: [00:04:37] And if you could be a stock or company, who would you be and why?

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:04:41] So you mentioned it in the beginning. Something I love possibly more than health care or definitely more than health care is fashion. And so if I think of a company that kind of shows how fashion, business technology can all coexist, I think with Farfetch. And so what I love that they've done is that they have the consumer facing side that really. Enabled luxury to go through e-commerce, but they're doing awesome stuff on the sort of B2B side as well. So that is really complex stuff with a lot going on and I tend to have a lot going on and I think in a in a in a world and an industry where there's overrepresentation, I would say, of hoodies and sweaters, it's nice to try and prove out that luxury can exist in investing in finance as well. So that's my pick for that one. 

Maddy: [00:05:27] I love it. Well, Jess, I want to go back to the healthcare topic. Let's get into it for someone who might be interested in investing in this space, can you give us a bit of an overview of the health care industry? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:05:40] So really tough one to sum up. So it's a huge industry. Obviously, we all engage with that at some aspect of, you know, at some point in our lives. And so the global health care industry is over $10 trillion. I think Australia alone is 150 billion. So to break it down, it's challenging. But the way I kind of think about it is all the stakeholders and kind of the participate is in the industry. So the first to start with very obviously is us as consumers. And I say consumers versus patients very intentionally and we can come back to that. But so we're the one sort of engaging with the system. Then the next layer up, I would say is sort of the products and services that you engage with so that you know your pharma industries, that's medical devices, that's biotech, all those things that are being produced that the consumer is then engaging with. You've then got another vertical pillar, which is what we call providers typically. So that's, you know, the hospital systems that healthcare systems, they're just your local GP, all those people that are kind of administering those. And that's an ecosystem in and of itself. And then the next way is up from there are really the overarching things of ensure is health insurance, those that facilitate reimbursement and all those policies there and then the regulators as well. So obviously anything that comes to market for pharma, medical devices, all of those have to go through regulatory approval. So it's the TGA in Australia, the FDA in the US, so you kind of got all these different layers and that's what it's what I love about health care. But what can really blow your mind sometimes is that it's hyper complex and when you're looking at even one piece, you have to be cognisant of all those other pieces and how they kind of interrelate and interact. I think though, the overarching theme that I spend a lot of time on in health care is kind of this concept of, well, consumerization of health care. I would say the consumerization of Pick Your Thing is a very overused term. When I was in San Francisco, we loved consumerization of the Enterprise. Now we're talking about consumerization of healthcare, but it's a very prevalent topic just because you kind of think and you look through all these tools that you engage with in your normal life, that experience is far better than anything you have to engage with. On the health care side of things in health care is fundamentally important to how we live our lives. And, you know, there are so many costs associated with not engaging with health care on a regular basis. So I think that's where I kind of spend a lot of time and what where a lot of the industry is heading out. What are these tools that facilitate within any of those verticals I just mentioned, reducing friction to the consumer. And that's why I say consumer, because we're looking for experiences that aren't just, you know, separate, siloed, your patient. That's the medical system. We want consumer experiences that make it easier for us to engage with health care. 

Sophie: [00:08:36] I guess you talk about consumers in the health care space, and I think over the past couple of years, consumers have been, I guess, faced with a lot of challenges in terms of health care, especially with the pandemic and because of the pandemic, I guess. Can you talk us through some of the biggest changes that have occurred because of the pandemic, I guess, on the consumer level, but also, I guess more broadly to the health care industry. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:08:58] One of the biggest things is that it's accelerated that trend from the concept of patient to consumer because we've had to learn to engage in a more digital fashion. And what's been really interesting, you know, I think telehealth is the biggest example of that. It's that usage of that has gone up something like 38 times over that pandemic. And while it has dropped off a bit, while in-person has returned and I suspect in-person is always going to be a really strong piece of health care because there's so much sort of trust and personal elements to it that you want to have that touchpoint when you need. But that engagement has remained really high. And I think what's been really cool as well is that it's forced the regulators and the slow moving systems to come up to speed with that as well. So telehealth in the U.S. and I know here in Australia they have reimbursement codes, everything's kind of caught up to facilitate that digital engagement with health care, which I think had we not had COVID would have taken many, many, many years. So that's really exciting. I think we've still got a long way to go. On that front. But it's been really cool to kind of see that digital evolution, not only from the consumer aspect, but really with the regulators and insurers getting on board as well. 

Maddy: [00:10:10] It actually is really quite crazy to think even, you know, just two years ago how different the health care industry was chatting to a friend the other day and she was saying that she had a doctor's appointment and it was only 20 minutes and she was running 15 minutes late and she was so stressed. Skoda doctor in the car to say that she was running late. She said, Oh, that's fine. We'll just start the appointment over the phone. So she basically did the entire appointment on the phone. And then when she got to the to the GP, they just gave her the script and fast enough she went like, this is genius, far more efficient. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:10:43] Exactly. And it works. And like, yeah, that's what I've it's been great for. It proves that it works. And there are so many things like prescription filling, although it's just regular touch points which really lend themselves to that model. And so why not use that model for those types of engagements and preserve the real costly kind of time engagements for those conditions or consults that require them? 

Maddy: [00:11:05] So just there can often be great investment opportunities in areas that are undergoing major transformation. What kind of technological shifts do you think we should be keeping an eye out for where we're looking at potential investments in the health care industry? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:11:20] It's a lot of that consumerization thing. So things that facilitate the reduction of friction for the consumer in engaging with health care. So that's seen across. Well, and not even the consumer honestly like the provider as well. The clinicians, those people I my my dad's a doctor. My mom's a doctor. This is why I love health care and pot. But I remember growing up scanning his patient notes through some little printer scanner looking thing so that he had them on file on a computer because everything was still done on paper so that the software, the scope for software to improve the physician experience and how they then engage with patients and record and measure their data, there's just so much opportunity there and I feel like we're only just scraping the surface. I think the other piece, which again, I hate to say because it sounds repetitive, but obviously it's pervading everything and we've seen some really cool examples of that in recent times. So Moderna. Right, who developed the vaccine for COVID, that was all technology that had been built over many, many years. But it's come to the forefront now. And they developed the COVID vaccine in less than 48 hours. And while it took over a year for that to then get approved, which is where I'm chatting about the regulatory catch up, like that needs to happen at some point, but that's pretty phenomenal. And so that goes beyond just drug development and discovery. But then also, you know, to the physicians, to the consumers augmenting decision making, greater public recognition to kind of calibrate across all those factors and improve the patient care outcomes. 

Maddy: [00:12:53] I did not know that they developed the vaccine in 48 hours. How did they do that?

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:12:57] Wild. So because MRNA. So it's kind of like, you know, code like a DNA and they basically got a conscripted code of the virus from China, translated that into a vaccine. I'm grossly simplifying it and probably getting it wrong, but there's like awesome podcast out with the CEO. Just how is talking through how they set that up and it's pretty phenomenal what they've been able to achieve. 

Maddy: [00:13:21] Yeah, remarkable. 

Sophie: [00:13:22] Yeah. I think the also really cool thing about this is you're talking about the consumer, you know, the consumerization of health care. If you're looking at investment opportunities, I think us as consumers, we can sit back and be like, What's making my life better? What am I enjoying? What am I using? And that's an easy, I guess, avenue to look at and go, okay, that's a really cool product or service that, you know, you could look into further yet tightly. As a long term investor, how do you envision the healthcare industry changing over the next 50 years? I know we've had really rapid change in the past two years because we've had to do that. But do you think that kind of change is going to continue into the future? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:13:55] Yeah, so I would say to a degree, as we kind of touched on, I feel like and I used to spend a lot of time in retail, I see a lot of similarities across the to now actually and I always thought and professed that retail would remain offline as well as online despite the sort of prevalence of e-commerce. The same thing here in healthcare, you know, telehealth will remain I don't think it will take over. And for those reasons we talked about, even more importantly than retail, that trust element, you know, this is very sensitive data, health care data that we're dealing with. So that offline component is going to remain incredibly important. But I think we'll be able to see sort of the the triaging and allocation of case consults between the two channels now to kind of optimise for that. And then really it's just yet continuation of that trend of making things easier for us to engage with the health care system. And as we kind of touched on before the getting the regulators to catch up. So if I jump back to the medicine or example. Right. So vaccine developed in 48 hours, obviously. Safety is paramount. We have to go through all these processes to get it approved before we roll it out to nations. But that vaccine that got approved into when was it like December 2020 was the exact same vaccine they came up with in January 2020 and again a year. No changes, but a year is a really short time actually in the scheme of things that we typically see. So we've proven again that we can move faster. So the way I kind of think about it, I would love to see the industry trend is kind of leveraging all those learnings and looking at how we can move faster to help people. 

Sophie: [00:15:31] Earlier we've spoken about the healthcare industry being such a large space and you've mentioned that there's many layers of different players, including, you know, the big behemoths. You've mentioned Moderna, but also we hear the term medtech coming through and a lot of smaller players coming up in the ranks. Do you think these smaller medtech companies with this new technology are going to be able to come through, I guess, and compete with the larger companies, or are the larger companies always going to have their place? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:15:59] Yeah, I think I would say it's the behemoths behemoths for a reason. So they will remain incredibly competitive. Having said that, with legacy comes less agility. So there's a lot to be said for these younger companies coming through that can move faster in a new age and a new way of approaching things. And particularly as the ecosystem and landscape evolves around them, they can kind of grow up with that in a much easier way without any of that baggage. So I would certainly say keep an eye on all of them. There's some phenomenal companies coming out there. I think the challenging thing is that to your point, there is a proliferation of them and so it does feel a bit crowded, a space. So there will be some consolidation and the real players that win are going to be those that kind of, you know, do the best job of gathering data to prove the efficacy and the quality of their product, educating the market and regulators, etc.. There's a whole sort of framework we can chat through at some time, but that yeah, I think I would certainly be watching out for those ones that can can move a lot faster. 

Maddy: [00:17:05] Well, I have to say, I'm just glad we finally have an online alternative in telehealth to Dr. Google, because that never gave me much hope when I put in my symptoms. But we are going to take a quick break for our sponsors, and we'll be right back to hear what Jess believes makes a successful investment in the health care industry. Before the break, we chatted about some of the major changes that the health care industry has been going through, which in the context of companies that have the ability to change the world, you know, health care is pretty up there. So what excites you the most about investing in this area? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:17:41] Yeah, I think well, that very point and we kind of touched on big numbers at the beginning. It's a huge market. It is well behind many other industries in terms of technological innovation. You know, I talked about scanning dad's patient files. That still happens, which is scary to think. You know, people are still faxing scripts to pharmacies. I don't even know what a fax machine looks like anymore. So the scope and the runway and duration of growth is very much there. And so I think I find that incredibly exciting. I think the other element I love is that, you know, particularly in the concept context of TDM, so we look at three circles of competence. We're all generalists, but if we kind of hone in on three circles of competence that consumer technology in health care and within health care, we're seeing a real convergence of that kind of overlap with consumer technology. And that's what I really love, too, is that we're kind of effectively operating at the epicentre of all three. So, you know, things like our consumer companies, I can take a lot of learnings from them to now apply to the health care space to see what might be successful there and kind of overlay in my frameworks. And I find that really fun. I think the final pieces as I touched on my entire family's medical, both mom and dad are doctors. My brother's a doctor, my sister's a physio. So in a way, I was a black sheep. You've got off grid. I went I went to finance. I wanted to play with numbers, not people in that respect. And I think it just provides me a chance to kind of contribute to the conversation around the dinner table.

Sophie: [00:19:15] I love that my I used to work at a doctor's surgery as well, and I remember having to try and translate their writing. And I'm like, this is inefficient because I can't read what you've written. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:19:27] Well, that's and doctors are notoriously known for horrible handwriting. So let's just have transcription and overlays of natural language processing and there we go. 

Sophie: [00:19:37] So I guess we've also touched on a little bit that there's a lot of different types of medical companies that you can invest in. You've got, you know, the small ones, the middle ones. I don't know if that's bad descriptions, but big ones. But what do you think is, you know, the most for all of them? Or it could differ depending on where they sit. But what do you think are the most common characteristics of successful medical companies? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:20:01] Yeah, so I think where I would start is with medical devices, and I do that partly because that's where I spend most of my time so far and have developed some sort of frameworks for how I think about it. But as I've kind of spent more time in other verticals like biotech, sort of pharma, a lot of that framework I've seen be quite translatable across those different industries. And I think we're seeing this real convergence in part driven by this consumerization aspect of what great looks like across a lot of them. But if I kind of break down in the medical device space, I have sort of a framework and it's the framework we really use a lot at TDM and with a lot of our companies that we had four pillars, that being product development and technology, market access, education and go to market. So as I touch on each of those, I'll keep it super brief. And if you want to learn more, there's a whole video that I did with my colleague. 

Maddy: [00:20:54] I would recommend it. I've watched it and I loved it. 

Sophie: [00:20:57] We can share share it with everyone. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:20:59] Oh, thanks, guys. But yes. So product development and technology, that's sort of the the obvious wide and just consistent innovation coming to market with new things. But really the key theme there that we're seeing today and what I would look out for medical devices is this overlap of not only the hardware but software and data and analytics. So medical devices are kind of evolving from a single product to what we think of really now as a system, a system of engagement that has touch points into the consumer, the physician, the reimbursement, you know, it's just kind of bringing that all together. So that's where I get really excited and spend a lot of time is looking at this concept of the connected device and monitoring continuous iterations on that. And what's really cool about that too, by introducing the software element is that you can iterate more quickly versus recreating new devices, which is a longer lead time. And so historically we've seen that iteration process be a lot slower by virtue of that fact. So that's product and technology, market access. We've touched a lot on sort of this concept of reimbursement that goes a long way to affordability of these devices for people, and reimbursement can be incredibly challenging to navigate. I spend a lot of time looking at U.S. health care in particular, and that's just blow your mind difficult. So looking at these companies and seeing what? They've managed to do on the reimbursement side. Are they set up with teams that are dedicated to this, just things like that, because that piece becomes fundamentally important to facilitating access to the product so that people can use it, which you need to generate revenue. And then education is huge. I think that's something it seems really obvious, but you kind of I keep seeing it in our companies that, you know, particularly with new novel therapies and technologies that are coming to market, medicine is quite you know, you think of doctors have been doing things the same way for a long time. To challenge that and break that mould is really hard. So you've got to really be focussed on educating us as the consumer, the doctors and kind of bringing everyone on the journey together to understand what the product is doing, what it's trying to achieve. And a big piece of that is like the research and having the data to back up what you're saying. So that's kind of that third pillar and then finally go to market. So this is just how you're getting the product to people. So I think what's really interesting is looking for channels like direct to consumer, which, you know, is it possible for all types of medical devices, but we're seeing a real trend of that where it is possible. And so educating the consumer and then making it very easy for them to get to it and marketing to them in ways that resonate with where they want to engage with the product. So that's sort of the very high level brief overview. But across those four metrics, that's what I'm looking at and that's what I think can be really helpful to look at, to kind of identify where medical device companies might be successful or otherwise not. 

Maddy: [00:24:02] It's a super interesting framework and I think, you know, you've touched on quite a few things there that would be super useful for ourselves to be able to apply when looking at this area, given you are the expert, I'm very excited to hear. Can you tell us about any of the healthcare companies that I guess you found using that framework that you're really excited about at the moment? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:24:23] Yeah, for sure. So I think one is and this is not one were invested in just disclaimer is is Dexcom. So they're a continuous glucose monitor. So if you kind of think about diabetes historically and even some people today are kind of, you know, doing the finger prick, getting your blood sample, having to test that, you know, that is not a user friendly experience. And particularly if you think of poor little kids who are having to do that, like it's not fun. So what Dexcom has done and they're not the only ones, but I really like just along that framework, how they've developed their product is their continuous glucose monitor. So it's kind of a little pouch that has a very small filament that kind of goes under the skin to continuously monitor your blood glucose levels. And so from a form factor or hardware perspective, they've done an awesome job of making that, you know, a bit more subtle and easier to use. And then from the software and data analytics side of it, we're thinking, you know, that first pillar, product development and technology, they've done a really awesome job of building out. So that ecosystem of app engagement and kind of driving that and even with the physician tree. So it's a consolidated sort of platform where you get that single view of the customer or consumers, you know. So this is another example where you're seeing those retail elements come into the health care side. I think the other really cool thing they've done, if I jump around kind of on their education and go to market side, is that they their product is so sort of consumer friendly that they have built a group of patients or uses of the product called Dexcom Warriors who are effectively evangelists of Dexcom. And so that's like free marketing, right? You've got these people out there saying how great Dexcom is. And that's like that's a really true, strong testament to the power of the product if you have people willing to do that. So I think that was something I've always found really cool with what they're doing and what I get pretty excited about their their future prospects for because you're seeing now two people without diabetes are using it because that as part of that evolution. Yeah we all want to know I think there's like growing interest in monitoring our health and you know, blood glucose is one of those. So to be able to encourage people who don't have to wear it, to wear it because of that ecosystem that they're built and like the ease of engaging with the platform I think is pretty phenomenal. 

Maddy: [00:26:48] Yeah, it's really saying something. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:26:51] I don't want to wear one, but I just might. 

Sophie: [00:26:56] I am curious, you're looking at the healthcare space every day, but for people like us who aren't necessarily engaged on a day to day basis, what are the I guess the resources you go to to look for investment opportunities but also to learn more about the health care industry? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:27:12] Yeah. So there's a bunch of newsletters that I follow, ones like Health Tech Nerds, which is my favourite, that great sort of. I'm such a health tech nerd. So I think a newsletter. 

Sophie: [00:27:23] Right. Just hits your inbox if you. A second to write it. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:27:25] Go Charles Barkley all about it Roc health are another one that do that to this sort of an investment firm in the U.S. that spend a lot of time in the health care space. And then there's just, you know, medtech dive, biopharma dive, that kind of like an aggregation of new sources in the space that I follow quite closely. But really the best resource and I appreciate not everyone has access to this, but is just people. So I have my family and I interrogate them all the time about things and what they think about things that I'm looking at, how patient pathways work, who they engage with. When I go to the doctor, I'm that really annoying patient that's like, Why are you doing that? How does this work? So I think, you know, just being mindful. I've always said like networks in so many things of life and people are the strongest elements you can learn from. So I think, yeah, just being mindful of a way you can engage with that and keeping across it in that respect and otherwise. Those newsletters are great too. 

Maddy: [00:28:22] I love that point. I think one of my favourite things that I've come to learn and know about investing is that it makes conversations with everyone and anyone interesting because you can always learn something new and then you can always apply it to investing. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:28:35] Yeah, exactly. Investing is all. If I really boil it down, it's just being curious. 

Maddy: [00:28:40] Suggests each episode we have been asking our guests to add a stock company, news trend or industry to our watch list. And the purpose of this really is to get us thinking outside the box and broaden our horizon in the investing space. Of course, we are not financial advisors and this is purely for educational purposes. But what are you adding to our watch list today? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:29:00] Yeah, well, I think it'll be no surprise that it's medical devices within the healthcare space. So I think there's just so many, you know, that framework is really helpful. I really enjoyed developing it. I think it's quite applicable. And so I would say thinking about that, thinking that to your point earlier, you know, we're engaging with these tools now there is that Consumerisation trend. What am I engaging with? What am I using a lot from a medical device or just wellness broad? A wellness perspective and kind of looking at that space. And I think there's a lot of really awesome talent, particularly in Australia. You know, Cochlear is an incredible example of an ASX listed company that's done phenomenally well in the medical device space and a kind of you can see them now. They originally were just the cochlear device. I shouldn't say just because it's a phenomenal invention, but you know, they're moving into that. You know, they have app controls and things like that now as well. So just the evolution of the experience of engagement with medical devices is just really cool. And so that's what I put on the watch list. Keep a lookout for. 

Sophie: [00:30:01] MedTech is actually one of the most popular things that is added to our watch list. I think over the year, over the past, maybe I don't even know how long, maybe six months. It just keeps getting added and added. So, you know, it's obviously a space to be watching. Well, it's. 

Maddy: [00:30:15] A very fast paced, changing industry, I would say. So it makes. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:30:19] Sense. Yeah, yeah. And it's tricky. It's like, really, it's really hot. And I think one of the important things about investing in that space is to be patient because things do take a long time if you're getting in, early approvals take a long time, education is really important. You got to build up your data sets. So it's certainly a space to be patient in, but it's it's well worth the wait.

Sophie: [00:30:43] And Jess, our final question for you today. What would be your piece of advice for someone who is starting out with their investment journey? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:30:50] Yeah. So while aside from listening to Equity Mates, obviously I think that the biggest piece is, you know, identifying early what your strength or circle of competence is. And so that might be, you know, you might be a passive investor and you want to invest in ETFs or just track the market. And that's fine. If you want to be an active investor, you know, really think through where your competitive advantage might be. And that doesn't necessarily have to be in information because I think today it's increasingly harder to have a competitive advantage on the information front, just given the proliferation and access to information that everyone has. So I think it's thinking through things like from an emotional standpoint, emotional stability. Do you have duration advantage whereby you're looking at these models and thinking, look, I'm holding for 5 to 10 years so I can forbear what's going on like we're all experiencing right now, which is really quite scary in terms of a lot of red in the portfolio. But if you kind of have adopted that long term view and can remain emotionally stable throughout that, given that you have conviction in the business models and the investment thesis, you know, if the investment thesis hasn't fundamentally changed, then that helps you kind of weather that storm. So I think, yeah, that's kind of how I think about it. Think through kind of some of the softer elements of investing and how that might provide you with some sort of advantage or guidance as you kind of go through your investing journey. 

Sophie: [00:32:22] I love that piece of advice because I think that people are. Get very overwhelmed with information and how much information is out there. And I think from our community, a lot of what we get is like, okay, I'm going to stop my research, but where do I even start? So it's nice to think, okay, what do I do day to day? What are the conversations I'm having? And then kind of find your investment nature just, I guess, as you said, your competitive advantage from there. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:32:43] Yeah, absolutely. And that's that's the best part is just, you know, what do I understand? What do I value aligned with that? You know, then that helps direct where you start your research. And then I think just really understanding and building up a thesis within that realm that you can stay really confident in to help weather the storms that evidently and obviously happen many times over. Sadly. 

Sophie: [00:33:06] Yes. Well, we're all experiencing that for the first time, so we're all in it together. But that's okay. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:33:12] Yeah. 

Sophie: [00:33:14] We've been told that it happens so well. 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:33:16] Exactly. History repeats itself and we don't seem to learn, but at least we can look to previous examples and kind of leverage that and try and learn going forward. 

Sophie: [00:33:23] Exactly. Well, Jess, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on today. If anyone wants to read more about TDM or what you do, is there any resources that you could offer up to them? 

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:33:35] Yeah. So the team website would be the best best port protocol call. And we actually have a lot of pieces that we publish there in terms of content, like the medical devices video, we did just opinion pieces about what's happening in the market today, which I think has been really well received and is really interesting because we're kind of seeing all this go on and JDM has a 16, 17 year history of investing, and so we have learnt a lot through previous cycles that are being applied to how we think about things today. So I think a lot of those are really awesome reads. There's my colleague and he actually did a podcast with the Equity Mates guys earlier on that particular topic. So listening out for that, we have our TDM podcast scaling up, which interviews a lot of founders of fast growing businesses to understand their story. So there's plenty, plenty of content out there that we'd love for everyone to get across.

Sophie: [00:34:30] Amazing. And we'll make sure that we link a lot of those resources across our socials so they will be able to have access. Jess, thanks so much for joining us today. We really appreciate your time.

Jess Bell-Allen: [00:34:41] Thank you for having me, guys. It's been awesome. Good fun.

Sophie: [00:34:44] God, it's so fascinating to learn about health care. It is one of those things that does affect us day to day. And I think as investors, it's a really cool space to be able to determine, you know, what affects us and I guess where we can be looking. 

Maddy: [00:34:58] And I mean, like we touched on the episode. It is an area that you can invest in that really has the power to change the world. So I think it's a really exciting space to learn more about and get involved in. If you are interested. 

Sophie: [00:35:11] We are going to be posting all of the details that Jess has mentions anything to do with TDM or health care videos or any of her resources across social media. So join us on our Instagram at Y IGC podcast. 

Maddy: [00:35:25] Well, jump into our Facebook group YIGC Investing Podcast Discussion Group. We'll also pop links to some of the resources in our show notes. If you haven't already, we would love if you could like and subscribe to the podcast or send it to a friend if you enjoyed today's episode. 

Sophie: [00:35:42] Otherwise you'll hear from us next week. 

Maddy: [00:35:44] Catch you then.