Expert Investor: Jess Amir – Lessons From 2020 & The Outlook For 2021

Bryec Leske: [00:00:57] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast where we follow our journey of investing. We break down the world of investing from beginning to dividend so that you can hopefully make some returns. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How's it going, bro? [00:01:09][12.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:01:10] I'm very good. Bryce looking forward to this chart. I've got to pull back the curtain actually to start the conversation. The first guest we've had on who's timing off. I'm really feeling the pressure not to laugh. [00:01:24][14.1]

Bryec Leske: [00:01:25] I love it. Usually, I'm giving you the I yeah. It's time to wrap. But now I guess [00:01:33][7.9]

Alec Renehan: [00:01:34] I'll be into the eyes. I can I can walk you out. But I'm looking at this time. I'm noticing how much I'm speaking. [00:01:39][5.6]

Bryec Leske: [00:01:40] Well, I guess it is. I guess it is time to welcome our guest for the second time on the show, Jessica Amir from Bill Direct. Yes. Welcome. [00:01:47][6.8]

Jess Amir: [00:01:48] Thanks, Bryce. Thanks, Alec. [00:01:49][1.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:01:50] Yeah. [00:01:50][0.0]

Bryec Leske: [00:01:51] So if you haven't heard. Yes. On the show before, I think firstly go back and have a listen to our first episode is we'll be reviewing a few of the bold predictions that we spoke about, but a bit of an intro to Jess. She was the head of news and content at Finance News Network, where she developed detailed research and content on financial markets. She also previously held roles at Money Management, Prime seven Win News and ABC. She's a qualified financial planner with extensive experience at firms including AMP, Commonwealth Bank and Suncorp and is now a market analyst at Bell Direct. Great to have you back. [00:02:24][32.5]

Jess Amir: [00:02:24] So good to be back. And what a time to time. [00:02:27][2.4]

Bryec Leske: [00:02:29] Recording on the 10th of November. And we woke up this morning to well, I think it was just before we went to bed, actually, that Pfizer had released an announcement that their vaccine for Covid is supposedly 90 percent effective. So it's been a pretty interesting night on the markets over in the US. And I assume the ASX is going to go nuts this morning. [00:02:46][17.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:02:46] Yeah, so it's actually going to open while we're recording. So, yeah, if you hear hear silence, [00:02:51][4.8]

Jess Amir: [00:02:54] you boys are trading [00:02:55][0.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:02:56] Bryce desperately trying to buy contest stocks this morning. That's what just we normally like to start these interviews with a bit of a game and then we like to ask the story of your first investment. But we've already done that with you, so we're not going to retread old ground. Instead, we want to ask a different introductory question, one we haven't trialed before. So hopefully it goes well. [00:03:16][20.2]

Jess Amir: [00:03:17] Yes. [00:03:17][0.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:03:18] We want to ask, why do you invest? [00:03:20][1.6]

Jess Amir: [00:03:21] Hmm? Why do I invest? Well, primarily, it's to grow my little pennies, but it's all about backing a story for me. So I was a financial advisor as Bryce it, and then I moved into journalism. So I love a good story. I know I shouldn't speak about Afterpay because we spoke about it too much last time [00:03:37][16.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:03:38] and never talked about it enough. [00:03:40][1.3]

Jess Amir: [00:03:42] But look, someone told me about Afterpay at two bucks. You guys spoke about it at two bucks as well, be BP before podcast. So, yeah, that to me was a success story. And so if you can make money from someone else making money, it's a win win. So I think I think that's what it's all about, just benefiting from someone else's success. [00:04:04][21.5]

Bryec Leske: [00:04:05] Think backing someone else in. Yeah. So you don't have to actually do anything. You just give them some money. [00:04:12][6.3]

Jess Amir: [00:04:12] Yeah, well it's all about passive investing. Right. So we all want to ultimately, you know, live wherever we want, if that's what you desire to live wherever you want and make money for your investments. So you can do that with the share market, which is why I love investing. [00:04:25][12.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:04:26] Yeah, good answer. It is. It's so good. You can just own a company that does and has incredible ideas, hires the smartest people and works to make you more money. [00:04:35][9.1]

Jess Amir: [00:04:35] Absolutely unique. It's what it's all about. [00:04:37][1.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:04:37] Just you mentioned Afterpay and this isn't going to be an Afterpay heavy conversation. But when you last come on the show, we asked you for some bold predictions. And we want to start there because we love bold predictions. And you were brave enough to come back and say how you went. And the first one was about Afterpay. So we'll go one by one, I think. So your first bold prediction on the 10th of June, so what, five months ago now? Yes, sir. Was an Afterpay prediction. And Bryce, I think, introduced it by saying it would be a top ten stock. So he was wrong about that. But you said Afterpay would be a top fifteen stock by the end of the year. How's that going? Yes, more like Afterpay Afterpay. [00:05:15][37.8]

Jess Amir: [00:05:17] It is exactly top fifteen. [00:05:18][1.1]

Alec Renehan: [00:05:19] Yeah, you've nailed it. [00:05:19][0.7]

Jess Amir: [00:05:20] I'm not joking. It's grown from our last catch up and top twenty three to a top fifteen. And look, I think that this owes NZ Jayan because of its success overseas is going to continue to move north. [00:05:33][13.9]

Bryec Leske: [00:05:34] Yeah. Yeah. You are still going nuts today. [00:05:36][2.1]

Jess Amir: [00:05:38] No, it's not, it's not. I think the tech stocks today because they were sold overnight investors. It's actually a good point. Yeah. No, no, this [00:05:47][9.1]

Alec Renehan: [00:05:47] this is a head to head. But I'm just saying we go down Bryce. So let's say. [00:05:53][6.1]

Jess Amir: [00:05:54] It's all about the long term, though, but smart investors listening to this podcast sometimes take these dips as opportunities to buy in. But typically when tech stocks are so down in the US, they're so down in Oz. And that's because investors are questioning that they're overpriced. There's more value in cyclical that are cheaper. [00:06:11][17.1]

Bryec Leske: [00:06:12] So to put some context to that, overnight, the Nasdaq actually finished down despite the announcement of Pfizer. S&P 500 finished up, you can imagine is Gestur said the Nasdaq finishing down because the likes of DocuSign, you know, so all those companies like Netflix or Apple that have been going gangbusters because of Covid have now had the wind taken from their sails somewhat. [00:06:35][23.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:06:36] So it's all important to keep it in perspective like they've still had. Incredible. [00:06:40][4.0]

Jess Amir: [00:06:41] They have. [00:06:42][0.2]

Bryec Leske: [00:06:42] They have. I'm still backing in Afterpay. [00:06:43][1.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:06:45] Are you going to back Afterpay until the end? So just to put some numbers on it, you're as you said, it's now exactly 15. So you nailed that prediction. It's got a market cap of, what, twenty nine point eight billion, 14th on the list is Telstra with 34 billion. So question without notice, do you think it will catch Telstra by the end of the year? [00:07:03][17.9]

Jess Amir: [00:07:03] No, not by the end of the year too soon. So I don't know like we've got the Santa Claus rally coming. Right. So I think Telstra does have some upside. But how much shopping can you do online to push Afterpay to become. [00:07:16][12.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:07:17] Well, yeah, like a lot of retail spending over Christmas. [00:07:19][2.6]

Jess Amir: [00:07:20] Yeah, I think probably next year may be more likely to kick Telstra off their throne. So and then after that, you know, you're wrestling with the big boys. [00:07:27][7.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:07:28] Yeah. Yeah. [00:07:28][0.5]

Bryec Leske: [00:07:30] Csl look out. [00:07:30][0.4]

Jess Amir: [00:07:34] see CSL the biggest in [00:07:35][1.6]

Bryec Leske: [00:07:36] ten times what it is now isn't CSL about 300 billion [00:07:39][2.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:07:39] or 140, I'm going to say. All right. [00:07:42][2.2]

Bryec Leske: [00:07:42] Okay. Anyway, so just the second bold prediction and this was released on the 10th of June, so the recorded 10th of June, it was that the ASX you said that the fundamentals of the index look strong and look to be on the path for recovery. So this was obviously posted the March coronavirus correction and you were predicting the index will rise at least 14 per cent, a very specific. But then I've come in to say I'm predicting the ASX will rise more than 14 per cent. So since recording on June 10, how's it looking? [00:08:15][33.0]

Jess Amir: [00:08:17] Not as good. So the market's had a few corrections in that time. And so what I mean by a correction, so a fall of around seven percent and then we recovered. So all in all, the market's now off about two and a half percent from that day that we lost. Yeah. [00:08:33][16.0]

Bryec Leske: [00:08:33] So pretty flat. I mean, the market's been going sideways pretty much from the date that you picked. [00:08:38][4.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:08:38] I think we should put some context on this. If we had recorded with just five days later, like on the 15th of June, the market was up. The market's up over 10 percent from that we recorded. Right. A little a little high point. Yeah. But yeah, relatively flat from the exact day that we recorded. [00:08:55][16.7]

Bryec Leske: [00:08:56] Well, what do you say? What are you seeing with it [00:08:58][2.5]

Jess Amir: [00:08:59] now, as you spoke about at the open? So we've got Covid vaccine. That's very, very close. Australia went into production this week with CSL. So this is a big part of the recovery. And Covid vaccine is widely expected to be available mid next year. On top of that, you've got uncertainty passing with the U.S. interest rates at an all time low. So the fundamentals are still strong, but it's likely to be pretty much flat until we actually have these Covid vaccine. So what I mean by flat, so the market's expected to, you know, kind of plateau and see these ebbs and flows until we definitely have a Covid vaccine. [00:09:36][37.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:09:38] I'm interested in that because if investors are investing on the basis of future expectations and future cash flow, I would have expected people to start getting very excited sort of now with Pfizer's results and say ourselves manufacturing, why is it that it will be a bit flat for a little bit longer? [00:09:54][16.6]

Jess Amir: [00:09:55] We still don't really have certainty. We still have Brazil. The cases are hitting all time highs. You've got Germany and France in lock down. So you've got all these economic powerhouses, even though Brazil is an emerging economy, but you have all these large cogs of the economy and going into global GDP that is still holding us back. So you've still got a very large portion of the world that are still under employed. So that's a big part of it. So it's all about production. A global production is still waning, but it is making a recovery. We saw the recent GDP data out of the US. We saw a very sharp recovery in their last quarter. So there are signs that things are improving. Going to your initial point about earnings picking up, yes, earnings are definitely still picking up for a lot of companies. So you just have to really pay attention to those companies that are saying earnings momentum because remember, earnings momentum drives share price growth as well. [00:10:51][55.9]

Bryec Leske: [00:10:51] What's interesting is if a vaccine does. Come out, will we have seen structural change that stays the way it is in terms of the way people are working and where people are choosing to live and that sort of stuff, or will the vaccine revert back to the old ways of doing things? That's what I find hard thinking about. What are you backing in going forward? Like donkey signs getting got slammed last night? What does that mean? Everyone's thinking that we're going to go back to face to face signing things on paper or Netflix. [00:11:18][27.0]

Jess Amir: [00:11:19] Netflix was down about eight per cent. What does that mean? That people are not going to be subscribing? [00:11:22][3.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:11:23] Watching Netflix is down because everyone's scared of stands bought into something. It's not your question. They're Bryce like some of those things won't change, like business travel will take a while to pick up because of some and all of that. You know, it's so easy to DocuSign, but I reckon people are creatures of habit and people will. [00:11:45][22.0]

Bryec Leske: [00:11:45] Yeah, go back to it. [00:11:46][1.3]

Jess Amir: [00:11:47] I think if you look at history, so remember, SARS is kind of like the most notable pandemic that we had that we can draw a likely comparison. So after SARS, we saw global travel didn't really pick up and people were quite hesitant to travel and that flying fee flew through to domestic travel as well. So we had less people who are less inclined to travel. So there definitely is a hesitation. Do you think [00:12:15][28.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:12:15] I've actually got a bet with a mate of mine? He said that global travel will never hit the levels that hit pre-Covid like ever again, which I just don't think it's going to happen. I think it will come back eventually. [00:12:25][10.0]

Jess Amir: [00:12:25] Did you put money on that? [00:12:26][0.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:12:27] I think we put a case on it. The good thing about this isn't about my bold prediction. This is about your predictions. Just so the third one was that Aussie tech stocks will continue to boom. How do you think that's gone? [00:12:41][13.9]

Jess Amir: [00:12:41] Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So the tech sector in Australia, so of all the sectors, it's the only one that's seen a monumental gain and it's up about in the order of 30 per cent from July. So it's just been extraordinary. So you mean it's not just the Afterpay, it's the zip, but it's the 060 up and happens. The companies that are, you know, doing deals and that is behind developing Siiri for, you know, for Apple. So these incredible companies that these local powerhouses that are listed here but doing great things overseas and it's all about, you know, the working from home sematic that's helping as well. You know, you've got wise tech. This has seen a significant rebound. That's a logistics company. So there's lots at play in the tech sector. [00:13:29][47.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:13:29] Yeah, yeah. And some IPOs that are sort of growing the tech sector a little bit, I guess. You know, I mean, a deputy beauty is kind of retail kind of telecoms, though, and like a lot of those. Yeah. Banks and stuff. Yeah. So it's good to see the IT sector is moving beyond those sort of five whack stocks that. Yeah. Hold it up for so long. [00:13:51][21.4]

Jess Amir: [00:13:51] Yeah, it's definitely evolving. I mean, look at Afterpay really taking a step out of the payment sector almost somewhat. It's now beyond by now Peladon. It's more about budgeting so similar to what DDO did, it's more about helping people with their finances. So it'll be interesting to see how that picks up overseas. [00:14:09][17.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:14:09] To wrap up this bold prediction, I actually just to put some numbers on the Aussie tech predictions. So the information sector in Australia up twenty eight percent, almost 30 percent. The next best sector, consumer discretionary up 15 percent. So I think we can well and truly give that bold prediction a tick. So you absolutely nailed Afterpay to the point where you picked its exact number. Fifteenth in the ASX 200 got the Aussie tech stocks one ASX 200 one. I think we have to wait until the end of the year. If if it's massive, people become absolutely exuberant around a vaccine. And, you know, things opening up for Christmas, you know, Qantas Flight Center, Sydney Airport all start running, you know, as people are getting back on planes and getting overseas, things could move quickly. I don't I'm not saying that's the most likely outcome, but, you know, it's not out of the question. [00:14:56][47.0]

Jess Amir: [00:14:57] Yeah, there's definitely some big catalyst behind it. I mean, just looking at the last forty days, the market is up 10 per percent. So another interesting thing is that if you look at it from a charting perspective for the ASX 200, so we've reached a real pivotal point. We were there a couple of weeks ago. So what's the pivotal point for it? So from a charting perspective, the short term, the fifty day moving average crossed above the longer term, twenty day moving average price for the Aussie sharemarket index. This is just really a technical trend that basically tells you that the market is likely to move higher just if you look at the chart. But then you've got those fundamentals that we spoke about, you know, Covid vaccine being baked in. And then you've also got a fiscal stimulus bond buying and you've got record low interest rates. So all of these things are supportive of the Aussie sharemarket. [00:15:46][49.5]

Bryec Leske: [00:15:47] Interesting Equity Mates. We will just take a short break to hear from our sponsors Ren you are all about. Getting fit, you've bought the garment, you bought the golf membership, you bought the gym membership and you're on the mind MasterChef and even in lock down last year, you bought those resistance bands of Instagram that from memory didn't even come. [00:16:06][18.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:16:07] No, look, they didn't come, but all of that effort really was cancelled out by the numerous menu log orders that were a real staple of my lockdown experience. [00:16:16][9.5]

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Bryec Leske: [00:16:37] And with the Virgin Money Go transaction account, you can earn rewards on your everyday spending with zero monthly fees. Sounds like just what you need. Ren. [00:16:47][9.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:16:47] Yeah, the FBI twenty one get Ren didn't quite work, but if my 20 to get Ren money it might be to go [00:16:56][8.4]

Bryec Leske: [00:16:57] back to your own Bayt Virgin. Money terms and conditions and monthly criteria apply. Now let's get back to the show. So, Jess, we've just closed out bold predictions for 2020 before we move on to looking forward, what are some, I guess, major lessons that you've learned from the markets in 2020 from investor behavior, point of view, performance of market? What are some key takeaways? [00:17:19][22.0]

Jess Amir: [00:17:19] Well, there's three. The first one is expect the unexpected. There's always uncertainty in markets with that huge volatility is your friend. So we know October is the rockiest month in history for markets and we saw that. Absolutely. And now we're coming out on the other side of that into the Santa Claus rally. So with that, there's a December Jan rally. So this is historically the most bullish time for markets. So really think about how you can use this. So buy low, sell high if you're a short term investor. But ultimately look for companies that are in growth sectors and look at buying in the dip. So use volatility and market forces your friend. The second thing is long term investing success definitely relies on your stock picking success, but also your ability to weigh up everything. So economic growth, interest rates, productivity, which you spoke about. So what am I saying here? So we spoke about the tech sector. The tech sector is up about 30 percent so far from when we last caught up. The tech sector is likely to cool a bit and now we're likely to see cyclicals outperform. So banking stocks, mining stocks, industrials. So those investors that have done really well have been nimble and they've adjusted their portfolios. So they've kind of gone overweight into tech and then now they're going overweight into cyclicals. And the last thing is it's a consideration, something for people to think about. I guess we've seen boredom activity reach all time highs. So we saw gaming activity reach all time highs in covid. And with that came gambling as well. Home renovations, interestingly, also hit an all time high in the pandemic. But what didn't hit an all time high was investor education. But what did was interest in the stock market. So that's at an all time high. So why am I saying all of this? So I think all of us need to spend a little bit more time educating ourselves and being wiser with our investment decisions. So a recent survey found that 36 per cent of people are actually asking their friends and family for advice, as some people are still asking Google. So there are plenty of good online brokers, for goodness sake. They all put out stock tips. So just take heed of the messaging. They do give unbiased advice without agenda. So they my three tips. [00:19:40][141.1]

Bryec Leske: [00:19:41] Nice. Well, we're here to educate, so that's good. Yeah. [00:19:44][2.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:19:44] Yeah. We don't give stock tips so we know everything we do is educational in general. The flipside of that question around what you've learned and what you've seen in 2020 is are there any trends that you're noticing they'll direct that perhaps can give us some insight into what's going on in the market more generally? [00:20:00][16.5]

Jess Amir: [00:20:01] Yeah, definitely. So what is really sticking out is the increase of new investors. So we've seen new time investors hit an all time high. Investor's intentions to invest are also at an all time high. So almost one million Aussie said that they want to invest in the share market over the next 12 months. And about 51 per cent of those intending investors are female, which is really good to say. This is actually an all time high. So females have never wanted to invest and been so hungry to get started than they ever have before. So this is really, really pleasing to see. But what is quite interesting, though, with female investing is us girls. Although we like now doing it for ourselves, we actually tend to be a little less diversified than men. We hold fewer assets, men are more diversified. We're also likely to take on less risk. So we leave the risk to the burly blokes and we also are less inclined to buy ETFs and rates, which is for real estate investment trusts. So listed property trusts. So there are a few really interesting trends. But all in all, we know that investors are looking to put cash to work into equities. The majority of those intending to invest are female and is also a very large amount of 18 to 24 year olds who want to invest as well. There's about 290000, 18 to 24 year olds who want to invest for the first time. So some really, really exciting trends. That's cool. [00:21:32][91.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:21:33] Bryce has been ringing up the ASX trying to take credit for that 18 to 24 year old number because [00:21:38][5.8]

Bryec Leske: [00:21:39] I was actually just going to take that. You take a note to myself, to you like getting contact the ASX, because I want more information about that dollar. [00:21:47][8.1]

Jess Amir: [00:21:48] So good. I can give it to you. [00:21:49][1.2]

Bryec Leske: [00:21:50] I think. Shahzia screw you ASX. [00:21:52][2.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:21:54] We're worried. Kayak's and ASX only podcast. [00:21:57][2.6]

Jess Amir: [00:21:57] Oh yeah. Oh sorry. I said [00:22:01][3.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:22:01] disclaimer. We're not biting the hand. [00:22:03][1.7]

Jess Amir: [00:22:05] Disclaimer, though, that data was from the. Yeah, yeah, [00:22:07][2.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:22:08] did you hear about it overseas a lot. like the Robin Hood investor and people trying to invest younger and younger. And it feels like that's really starting to pick up in Australia. Hmm. [00:22:18][9.7]

Jess Amir: [00:22:18] I think what's behind that as well is what the survey also found is that people actually thought that you had to invest with six hundred dollars about two years ago and now it's actually dropped to about two thousand dollars. We actually guys, you don't need to start with two thousand dollars to invest. You only need 500 bucks. Yeah. And with some apps, you can do it now. So, yeah. So there's plenty of ways to invest and it's never been so easy. [00:22:45][26.1]

Alec Renehan: [00:22:45] Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's pretty crazy how quickly technology has made this all so accessible. But yeah. Anyway that's exciting. Bryce. We'll leave you to call the ASX after this interview. So just given your success for your 2020 bold predictions, we would be remiss if we didn't ask you about your outlook for 2021. What are some of the things you're coming to expect? What are some of the sectors you're watching? What are you looking at for 2020 one so broadly? [00:23:10][25.3]

Jess Amir: [00:23:11] I'll just say there's a couple of different things. So first one is there's a lot of covid catalysts. So we've got borders easing. There's hope of a vaccine. We've got lower for longer interest rates supporting share market growth. And we've got the wake of the election. So every year after a US election, the Aussie share market has rallied six and a half to 40 per cent. [00:23:32][20.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:23:32] Wow. Yeah, hopefully it's a 40 per cent. [00:23:34][1.9]

Jess Amir: [00:23:34] Yeah. Yeah. So that's just looking over the past 36 years, we've also got the Santa Claus rally upon us. So the Santa Claus rally traditionally starts pretty soon, so late November and goes through to mid-December and then it can follow through to Jan. So there's that to consider cyclicals are set to outperform. So we spoke about that earlier. So do you want [00:23:56][21.3]

Bryec Leske: [00:23:56] to just quickly define cyclicals for those that may have just joined the show? What do you mean by that? [00:24:00][4.1]

Jess Amir: [00:24:00] Okay, so a cyclical stock is kind of, as a name suggests, from an economic perspective. So those things that go with the ebbs and flows of an economic cyclical calendar, I guess, so to speak. So they're things like your banking stocks. So people tend to save more, invest more with the bank. They feel more bullish and likely to, you know, take out a loan or mortgages increase when the economy is expanding. So cyclicals do well in growth periods. So other cyclicals include mining stocks. You've also got industrials, industrials like, you know, Qantas Flight Center. Yeah. Webjet, et cetera. We're basically returning to the good old days. So earnings will drive share price growth or is likely to drive share price growth from here on in. So that's something to consider. So tech is touted to lose its shine. Investors are going to favor quality companies with low debt, solid earnings. So speaking about industrials, which are tipped to rally the industrials, remember a cyclical. So in industrials you've got travel, as Bryce said. So earnings are likely to pick up for the second busiest flight route in the world, Sydney to Melbourne. That's reopening as soon as this podcast is brought to air Qantas, the share price momentum is building up, so they're up 43 per cent from August. Their fifty day moving average has crossed above its longer term, 200 day. That again, a bullish signal signifying that there's further share price growth. Secondly, their capacity will increase from 30 to 40 per cent. Flight Center could be worth a look as well. Reporting rising demand, healthy cash flow. Don't forget alliance aviation. There is fly in fly out mining industry provider energy expected to lose its shine because of the sematic and this new set trend from working from home. And lastly, the US dollar is tipped to fall. So that should support the gold price in theory over the long term. And then a last but not least, there'll be a preference and outperformance in small cap stocks of a large caps. So these are likely to benefit from the recovery. More so because first of all, they're trading at a discount to the broader market. Secondly, they are supported by budgetary support, but still in small caps. Look for high quality names as well. So a solid, repeatable earnings, strong cash flows. So, you know, some companies that I like in small caps include in our W, so there are mining services contractor that continue to win contracts, that supports cash flows, medical developments, a small company, they produce the green whistle. So whether you're down at the beach and you break a toe, I'll keep it PG. You break a tone, you need some pain relief. You'll get a suck of the green. We that supplied by MVP other smaller companies that are tipped to do will include audio networking company Ordinate, family tracking app Life 360 and an intellectual property firm called Quantum IP. But they're just some examples, but basically to summarize small. Out to perform cyclical to outperform, so those that are pegged to the economic recovery, so move away from tech, I suspect I suspect investors and fund managers will move away from tech to cyclicals. And then keep in mind that there's lots of catalysts for the Aussie share market. So lower for longer interest rates. U.S. election is behind us every year. The share market rallies after this election. And we've got Covid restrictions easing and borders opening up EFIC. [00:27:33][213.1]

Bryec Leske: [00:27:34] Yeah, a lot to think about that. Yes, I've taken notes of all of them. So you're on the hook and we'll we'll check back in in 2021 to see how all of that plays out. But thank you for your time today, too. Great to review what was 20/20 and perhaps a year to forget for some very interesting year to be involved in the markets, that's for sure. And we look forward to checking in 2021 to all these bold predictions tech will lose its shine. Interesting. [00:28:00][25.6]

Jess Amir: [00:28:01] Yeah, a bit of shine. A bit [00:28:03][2.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:28:04] It's very shiny at the moment. So it could afford to lose a bit of. [00:28:07][3.4]

Bryec Leske: [00:28:09] So again, Jess, thanks for your time today. Always good to chat and looking forward to catching up again. [00:28:13][4.4]

Jess Amir: [00:28:13] Thank you so much and thank you for all you do. And I'm so happy that my friends and family listened along to Equity Mates. [00:28:13][0.0]

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