Expert: Aidan Geysen – 4 key criteria for choosing the right super fund | Vanguard Super Retirement Series

Bryce: [00:00:25] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast where we explore what's possible in the world of investing. If you've just joined us for the first time, a huge welcome to equity mates. Today we continue our superannuation series to chat through it. As always, I'm joined by my equity buddy, Ren. How are you?

Alec: [00:00:48] I'm very good, Bryce. A little bit thrown by your intro. Normally we explore what's possible in the world of investing, but now I guess we're on top of the world because we explore what's possible in the world of investing.

Bryce: [00:00:58] Just keeping it real. And I'm glad you're paying attention. 

Alec: [00:01:00] Those little quirks you pick up after a thousand and something episodes together.

Bryce: [00:01:05] Goodness me.

Alec: [00:01:06] But look, let's not get, two derailed because we've got a big episode today. This is our second of three episodes in our superannuation series, proudly supported by Vanguard Super. In our first episode, we spoke about why super, why we think it's important, why it's the only free kick you're going to get with your finances, and why it's the foundation of our retirements here in Australia. In this episode we're getting very practical. This is the toolbox episode. What are the tools at our disposal? What are the levers that we can pull to maximise the amount of super that we have when we retire? And we're not doing it alone.

Bryce: [00:01:45] We're not doing it alone, Ren, we're going to bring in an expert, from Vanguard. Aidan Geysen will be joining us. He's the senior manager at Vanguard Super to help us chat through the toolkit. So in this episode, we're going to cover some of the basics around setting up super. What criteria matters when choosing a super fund? How do we find information and answer age criteria, how to compare super funds, and then have a look at some of the additional resources to help you. 

Alec: [00:02:13] But before we get to Aidan, we want to say a massive thank you to Vanguard Super for making this series possible. You probably all know Vanguard's award winning ETFs, but did you know Vanguard Super is winning awards too? 

Bryce: [00:02:24] Vanguard super is backed by 45 years of global investment expertise. Plus it's low cost, so you keep more of what's yours. 

Alec: [00:02:33] The Vanguard Super Lifecycle product has one of the lowest super fees on the market now, more than 30% lower than the industry average. Whether you're just starting your career or planning your retirement, Vanguard has you covered.

Bryce: [00:02:45] So head to vanguard.com.au/super to explore Vanguard Super. 

Alec: [00:02:50] For your comparison based on super writing smart data as at 31st March 2024, other fees and costs may apply. Vanguard super PTL today is the trustee of Vanguard Super. Read the relevant PDFs and T&D available at vanguard.com.au/super and consider if a product is right for you before making any financial decisions.

Bryce: [00:03:14] Well, Aidan. Welcome to equity mates.

Aidan: [00:03:16] Thanks, Bryce and Alec. Great to be here today. 

Bryce: [00:03:19] We're covering off the toolkit that we need when it comes to setting up our superannuation fund and the basics to consider, and that's where we want to start. So what are some of the basics to consider when it comes to superannuation?

Aidan: [00:03:34] Very happy to get into that. One thing I would say first is that, our system, unlike many around the world, is sort of set up to make a number of those key decisions for those who are disengaged. And by and large, that'll put my St at a decent starting point to save for retirement. But there are some actions which I think are worth talking about that help me with that. So, you know, firstly I'd, I would say, have just one account. That's really easy. These days. The ATO has an online consolidation tool. People can log in and do that themselves. Most funds have that functionality as well. It's normally just a couple of clicks. But surprisingly, despite how easy it is, there's still around 4 million members with multiple accounts who are paying higher fees. Wow. Particularly given a number of funds charge fixed fees as well. So obviously if you've got multiple accounts, you're paying that, more than once. You're not capitalising on those benefits of scale. So yeah, that's, that's the first one. That's an easy one.

Alec: [00:04:35] And I'm going to put my hand up and I had multiple accounts from just different jobs. You know, when you're young and you're working casual jobs. And yeah, it was so easy to consolidate. And it was one of those things that I put off for so long because I thought it would be hard, and it was literally a couple of clicks.

Aidan: [00:04:56] Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. I mean, you sort of used to these things being complex. But once you jump on that's an easy one. So, good place to start. The second monetise, don't just take the employer default. And the caveat I'd put in there is without checking, you know, often the employee default, you know, might be, you know, really well, set up funds for someone's needs. And again, like, soup has been set up such that if you are completely engaged, like there is a path of least resistance that works pretty well if you do. I think you'll end up with a super fund. An asset allocation that'll help you save for retirement and minimum guaranteed contributions. Coming from your employer's side, like, that's a really decent start. But for many members, it means I missed an important opportunity to become engaged in saving and investing for retirement. So, you know, doing your homework around whether that fund is, is right for you. And, we can get into some of the things to consider there.

Bryce: [00:05:56] So Aiden what, what else do we need to consider when it comes to the basics? 

Aidan: [00:06:00] Yeah, probably the last thing to call out here is, this is just so simple, but making sure you're being paid. Industry super Australia actually had some interesting estimates, that over the last seven years, 10.8 billion in super wasn't paid to Australians. Like, that's not far off $1,000 for every worker. And obviously for those that are missing out, that number can be much higher.

Alec: [00:06:26] That's just it's just crazy to think there's so much money. Yeah. And, you know, in the first episode of this series, we spoke about how many Australians aren't engaging with their superannuation. And so you sort of put those two facts together and you sort of realise that a lot of Australians are engaging with their superannuation, and then there's a in some pockets of the economy underpayment of super. And it's like a lot of Australians probably just wouldn't know because they're not engaging.

Aidan: [00:06:53] Absolutely.

Alec: [00:06:55] So there's some good basics and we'll include the ATO online consolidation tool as a link in the show notes. So consolidate. Make sure you've just got one fund. Make sure you're happy with that fund. Don't just take a default without checking and then make sure you are being paid into that fund so that that's some good basics and some good groundwork. I guess where we wanted to go in this episode is really to build a set of criteria and understand how we choose the right fund. And obviously there's not a one size fits all answer for everyone, but we'd love to get some sort of general points which we can all go away and think about for our own personal circumstances and figure out what fund is right for us. So as we're building a criteria. Aiden, where would you start? What are some of those key points that we should all consider?

Aidan: [00:07:44] Yeah. So some of the key things and we can expand on these later like firstly low fees. And you guys know fees matter whether it's investments or superannuation. The more you pay for the less you get to keep if you're investments. That's just fundamental. In terms of the investment options, it is really important to establish your goals and time horizon, as well as any personal preference, whether that can be around ESG, you know, DIY type options that'll help narrow down those choices. Long term performance, really important to sort of look long term when you're assessing performance. You know, we'd say at least five years. But really the longer the better. So preferably more. And then also, you know on the attached to super often is insurances as well. So looking into the insurance offer.

Bryce: [00:08:33] Yeah. Well let's start with unpacking the fees, side of things because as you noted here at equity mates, we hate fees. And as you also said, like the more you're paying in phase over the long time, you're just aiding in and degrading returns. So lower fees, the lower the fee, the better when it comes to the super fund phase. What should we be looking for? What elements make up the fees? And yeah, help us understand more about the fee structures.

Aidan: [00:09:04] Yeah, absolutely. And it's not that easy to understand. So definitely worth spending time on. And also for funds charge fees, the components that tend to make up the total fee is admin fees, investment fees, transaction costs. And our research has found that Australians are unsure how much they're paying for their super. And I think partly because of the way fees are charged, it's not that easy to work out. So really important to sort of wrap your arms around what all the different fees are, how they're charged, and get a view of that total cost. So that when you are comparing them, you can add it all up and you might have to dive into the PDFs too, to sort of find all of that detail. The I.T comparison tool also has some information that looks at what a member might cost. But again, there'll be assumptions embedded in that, you know, around member balance and things like that. So PD is often a good source of truth. So that one might require a little bit of digging. 

Alec: [00:10:04] Yeah. We'll include your super comparison tool in the show notes as well. I think it's a good starting point. But yeah you're right. It still can be confusing. It's you've still got to sometimes do the maths yourselves. And I know for some funds there's some fees that, a fixed dollar amount and then some that are a percentage. And so you've got to sort of calculate it yourself. 

Aidan: [00:10:26] Yeah. And that, that just adds to the complexity. As well. Certainly our approach around phase, you know, is to, to be transparent. You know, have a simpler approach where it is in an asset based phase and then disclosing that, you know, there are components to that. But disclosing that on a, on a total cost basis, but really generally around phase the lower the better. I think it was Albert Einstein who said that compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. Those who understand it and those who don't pay for it. And whilst he said this in relation to the interest and like that, maths also works in the opposite direction. So for compounding the effective phase saved on an investment, you know, that makes a big difference over time. It's a couple of years out now, but the Productivity Commission looked into this. When they're looking at the sort of efficiency of the super system, and if you can save just half a percent for a typical worker, over their working life, it adds up to around 12% of their super balance. Wow. Around $100,000 by the time they reach retirement. And that's for a half a percent difference. So fees definitely matter. 

Bryce: [00:11:34] That's a good start. That is 12% of your balance. 

Alec: [00:11:37] Yeah. The difference between 0.5% and 1% just doesn't look like it doesn't feel in the paper when you're looking at it when you're 20 and you, you know, you just choose a super fund. But when you say that that difference can be worth $100,000 in your retirement, like that's massive. 

Aidan: [00:11:56] Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think average fees for industry and retail funds are somewhere between 1 and 1.1%. You know, 1.1% if you can get a fee. And that's the average. So it's perfectly achievable, you know, to save that, to save that half a percent just by looking around.

Alec: [00:12:14] Well, yeah, that shocked me. So that's the first one. Number one criteria is low fees. That's something that we can all check and we all should be checking with our super fund. The second one is investment options. And I think this has probably been even just the time that we've been doing this podcast. The change in the number of, issuers of super funds and the choices, and that are given within those funds is, is pretty amazing. But as with so many things when it comes to investing, more choice, more options can sometimes be a little bit paralysing. So knowing what the choices are and then knowing what you want is pretty important. So let's talk about investment options. How do we approach it? What are our choices? And then how do we sort of figure out what's right for us. 

Aidan: [00:13:04] Now great question. And I think you've touched on an important principle around choice overload as well, that more choice doesn't necessarily mean better outcomes. But, an important thing to consider when thinking about the investment choices, I think, is to start with three simple questions. When do I want to retire? Like, ultimately, superannuation is to save for retirement. How do I want to retire and how will I get there? And, just about to refresh it, but we undertake a series called How Australia Retires, which looked at research surveying 800 Australians that found that while the average ideal retirement age for working age Australians is around 61 years old, there's massive variation across that group. And actually what tends to happen, when you ask younger people when they want to retire, the answer is around sort of late 50s, 59, 60. By the time you get to that 35 to 54 age group, it's sort of crept out to around 62. And then those aged 55 to 75, where you're really looking at, am I ready to retire? It's pushed out to sort of 65 years old. So a really good place to start is, you know, when do I want to retire? Because that then filters into, you know, how you frame your plan. And a big part of that plan is the investment choice and the asset allocation attached to that investment choice. And assuming someone has the risk appetite, risk appetite, to tolerate it, you definitely want to take advantage of having those higher growth assets earlier in your career when you've got the time horizon to sort of take on that risk. The second one is around, how do I want to retire? So different people have different goals in, in retirement. You know, all of a sudden obviously meet those basic living expenses, then it's the level of, you know, that sort of non-discretionary spending that we want in our goals, whether that's holidays or however that looks. And depending on your situation, those goals can relate to, you know, bequest motives as well. So having that idea of the type of lifestyle you want, again, sort of filters into the investment option and the choice that you make. You know, we would say if you want to have some assurances around the lifestyle you want in retirement, taking on that risk when you can in an early stage, being diversified. So you're really not. Gambling around those outcomes. And the third is around. You know, the third question is around, you know, how will I fund my ideal retirement as well? Will it be solely through you superannuation fund? Or are there other investments, such as property or an investment portfolio that you look to draw on? And interesting to note that 1 in 3 Australians expect to continue some form of work into retirement, and some believe that they'll not be able to afford retirement without that additional income. And this is actually a particular challenge if you're renting, given the cost of rents relative to, say, if you're relying on the age pension. But also for an increasing number of homeowners this as well. It is interesting to note that the proportion of Australians aged 55 to 64 with an outstanding mortgage has tripled in recent decades too. So I am really considering those factors that can help you determine which fund you choose. 

Bryce: [00:16:26] Yes, I guess that's the point. And how to, like, round those three questions together when you want to retire, how you want to retire, and then what you're going to fund. Because when it comes to choosing funds these days, there's like the prebuilt options that are very familiar to a lot of us, which is just that growth, balanced, conservative. But a lot of funds these days are adding in more. There's tilts to things like ethical, there's direct investments, different types of weightings. So is the point here to answer those three questions first and then go away and look for the funds that have the right investment options for you based on the answers to those questions.

Aidan: [00:17:03] Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, even just thinking about a couple of the different categories of funds, you know, typically for people earlier on in their their working life, you know, if it's an employer to default or something they've gone in and chosen, it might be a growth fund, for example, that you choose when you're in your 20s, you know, fairly high proportion of growth assets relative to defensive assets. But it makes sense given that long horizon, but do a checking every few years as well, just to assess if that fund still fits your, your risk profile, then you don't need to be near retirement and have too much risk on the table by still being invested in a growth fund. So important to check in, or alternatively, their life cycle funds that adjust that risk for you as you age, which, you know, Vanguard has, we refer to as a glide path. And with that, you know, the Life Cycle Fund, for instance, adjusts from, for us, the day you turn 48 right up until age 82. So it's very incremental in the way that it de risks. It recognises that at the point of retirement, you still got a long time horizon. So as it continues to adjust and de-risk through retirement and along that glide path, the investment is still structured to help savings grow. Early on it sort of takes 90% allocation to, to equities. But then managing that risk because you're approaching retirement through managing that risk. Also that actually sort of helps smooth out the consumption of what you're drawing from your account in the, in the return. 

Bryce: [00:18:38] So just to be clear with the life cycle product as well, because it's something that I don't feel like was around when I first started working, which, you know, admittedly was over ten years ago. So it feels like a reasonably recent product here in Australia, right here in Australia. And so it's the idea that, you know, with your life cycle products, you change the investment allocation to assets automatically depending on my age. And so as I am sitting here just contributing to super, I don't need to worry about changing that allocation myself.

Aidan: [00:19:13] Yeah, absolutely. And your observation is right. Life cycle was certainly the minority in terms of the way people was, and particularly around the defaults that were offered either through employees or industry funds. When you consider when super, guarantee came through, people weren't retiring with large balances at that early phase. And the focus was all on that accumulation phase. And I think the issue is now that people are sort of getting to that retirement phase with large balances, their lifestyle really is more and more predominantly going to be funded through their superannuation balance, and they're much more sensitive to the level of risk that they might be taking, as they're approaching retirement to the point where, you know, if you sort of look around people's retirement intentions, you know, whether it was the sell down during Covid or whether it was the financial crisis, you know, pushing out their retirement type because they found they had too much risk in their portfolio. And so de-risking, you know, both towards that event. But but also, through retirement, I think just lands people in a better spot to retire comfortably when they want to retire, rather than this situation where someone goes in. Engages a financial planner at that sort of important juncture. And the financial planner sort of sees him in a, you know, 70 or 80% growth fund and then risks them in one step, you know, ready for retirement. And just depending on sort of sequencing of market returns at that time, you know, that thing becomes a bit of a lottery is to, you know, to what extent that impacts someone's ability to retire comfortably. 

Bryce: [00:20:52] Yes. Good point

Alec: [00:20:54] So we've covered off the first two criteria, the low fees and the investment options. The third criteria is around performance. And you mentioned at the top you want to be looking long term. You said at least five years, preferably more. Talk to us about how we look at performance where we can get that information. And some of the, I guess, the, the rules of thumb when it comes to comparing funds. 

Aidan: [00:21:21] I might start with a rule of thumb, the rules of thumb. And the first one is just definitely making sure you're comparing like with, like and in particular, you know, looking at comparable levels of growth assets, you know, the, the predominant source of return, for an investment, you know, isn't so much, you know, those active tilts or the active decisions that are made, but it's the what I refer to as the beta of the market. So what the market delivers you. And the biggest determinant of that return, particularly, for someone investing in super is the level of growth assets or equity risk, which is sort of that big driver of returns. So compare like with like we spoke about disengagement. And I think, you know, this is a point in something that you can engage in. And, you know, disengagement in some ways can be good because it means people aren't necessarily overreacting to inevitable events that we should look through, like an equity market selloff. But we're also seeing people disengage around things like performance and approve broad in the performance test and even fund files that they need to write to their members more, even saying responses to members, sort of things that are being written to and told they're in an underperforming fund, you know, like a very, sort of limited proportion of those that are actually switching and making a choice. Despite having been told that they're in an underperforming fund. 

Alec: [00:22:50] That's interesting. So those letters, cause it's a big it was a big step, for the government to make underperforming super funds do that. But you're saying those letters haven't been having a massive effect? 

Aidan: [00:23:02] Yeah. And I can't remember the numbers, but there were some statistics on sort of switching behaviour among members in underperforming funds and the level of action taken as it was, you know, lower than expected to say, not to say that that hasn't been effective. And I think it's probably been effective at driving consolidation. And looking at subsequent results of that test, you can say, you know, less and less failures. So, it's certainly been effective at sort of improving performance in the industry, but more evidence that, you know, people could engage more around this topic of performance, particularly looking long term and, and making sure you're comparing like for like.

Alec: [00:23:40] I think it's such an important point, this, looking at long term performance, one of my favourite investing books is Margin of Safety by Seth Klarman, and he writes about institutional performance. Darby. And essentially what he talks about is there's this whole world of asset allocators and, you know, institutional fund managers who just chase recent performance and, fund will have a really good year and a lot of money will flow to that fund. But then, you know, that fund has a bad year and another fund has a good year. And then they chase the new shiny thing. And all that happens is these money managers constantly underperform because they're chasing the new hot thing. And it's like, that is the thing we want to avoid with our super. We want to avoid who had the best year last year jumping there and then someone else has a good year and you're constantly chasing last year's gains? 

Aidan: [00:24:31] Yeah, that is a great point. It's important for people to remember where they've got a competitive advantage. And, you know, particularly our market. And my sort of developed markets around the world have a very high level of institutional ownership. And I say if you're sort of jumping around with your super expecting to beat some of those, professional institutional investors, that's not necessarily going to work out well. And, you know, particularly when it's your retirement that you're playing with there as well. But the competitive advantage that we do have is that time horizon, you know, and being able to take market risk as long as someone has a risk appetite for that, you know, particularly early on is a really powerful way to get a good start. 

Bryce: [00:25:12] It's one as well that you should. It's not sort of comparing funds to start with. You want to be looking at performance. It's as you are going as well, like five years in ten years. And you want to be making sure that your super fund is catching up. But the challenge that you face there as well, he's like, how long do you wait if you're in a fund that. Might be underperforming a little bit before you then have to then pull the pin and be like, actually, this is underperforming. It's not just a one off. So it's more just a comment around that. You need to stay vigilant with keeping track of how you fund is performing, and also keeping in mind that there are up and down years and there is a time horizon there that you need to give it a bit of time. But, it can be challenging. 

Aidan: [00:25:51] Yeah. And I very much so. And I think that, speaks to sort of the benefits of, of being engaged in, you know, the work that you do with your audience as well. There are always performance cycles and any strategy is going to underperform. That's often the worst time to get out. So just sort of trying to understand that strategy. But you're right, recognising when enough's enough is important as well, that's why we say focus on the long term. 

Alec: [00:26:14] Now Aiden, we've covered three of the four key criteria. We've covered, low phase. We've covered, looking at your investment options and long term performance, we're going to take a quick break here. And then on the other side of the break, we're going to talk about the fourth criteria, which was insurance and then how we can put it all into effect. But before then we want to pause and say a massive thank you to Vanguard Super for making this superannuation series possible.

Bryce: [00:26:39] Vanguard Super's life cycle investment option is brilliantly designed for ease, automatically adjusting your investment mix as you get older. 

Alec: [00:26:47] What does that mean though? 

Bryce: [00:26:49] It means you can rest easy knowing your super is in steady hands. Vanguard's super leverage 45 years of global investment expertise to automatically de-risk your portfolio leading up to and during retirement. Intelligently designed to focus on growth investments in your younger years and gradually introduce more defensive investments as you age, decreasing your investment risk as you near retirement, all without you having to lift a finger. 

Alec: [00:27:16] Head to vanguard.com.au/super to explore Vanguard's Super Vanguard Super Pty Ltd is the trustee of Vanguard Super. Read the relevant PDFs and T&D available at vanguard.com/super and consider if a product is right for you before making any financial decisions. Welcome back to Equity Mates. Today we're talking to Aidan Geysen from Vanguard Super all about how we choose the right super fund. We've covered some of the basics at the start of this episode that we can all do, making sure we've just got one account. Not taking an employer default without checking that we're happy with it and making sure we're actually being paid our super. Aiden, give us some criteria for choosing the right fund. Low fees. What are the investment options? What's the long term performance? And finally, the insurance it offers. We've covered those first three criteria. Aiden, let's turn to insurance. I guess for people unfamiliar, maybe let's even just start with what insurance super funds can offer. And then let's get into how we determine what's right for ourselves. 

Aidan: [00:28:27] Yeah. So in terms of the types that that can be offered, you know, from a life insurance standpoint, we're talking about death cover title and permanent disability. And then often, income protection as well. Typically it's up to the member as to, you know, whether they, either opt in, or if it's in a default scenario, opt out of insurance. So really down to the member to sort of assess their needs and, from an insurance standpoint. 

Bryce: [00:28:56] And then in terms of assessing like, how do we what should we be looking at when it comes to the super to compare one one to the other in terms of insurance?

Aidan: [00:29:05] Yes. And I think looking at super holistically, you know, obviously it's not just insurance, but so within the insurance of, you know, those items to compare and the premium rates, the amount of cover that you get and any exclusions or definitions that that might affect, might affect someone as well.

Alec: [00:29:21] It's such an underrated aspect of super Like that. People don't really think about insurance. I mean, I guess that's just insurance. Generally. No one thinks enough about it until, you know, until it's the only thing that you're thinking about. But yeah, I guess again, it's, you, where are you at your stage in life and, you know, like, speaking personally, I'd, you know, don't have any dependents, don't have any kids or anything like that. So my insurance needs are going to be very different to, you know, what I hopefully need in ten years. So it's again, this thing of engaging with your super and constantly checking what, what you need at different stages of life. 

Aidan: [00:29:58] Absolutely. No. I think you hit the nail on the head that this is very much an individual one as well, because different people have have different arrangements, whether that's through their employer or, you know, other insurance arrangements. So, you know, getting this one right really comes down to sort of individual needs. 

Alec: [00:30:16] One thing we did learn recently, we were speaking to a financial advisor who specialises in insurance, and he made the point that you can also look for insurance outside of super. And then if it's one of the types of insurance he mentioned earlier, there are instances where you can get your super fund to pay for it. So there is a bit more flexibility than just taking the default insurance arrangements, which I had no idea about. So I think it's worth just flagging that there as well.

Bryce: [00:30:48] So Aiden we've covered off the key criteria, when it comes to looking for the right fund for, for you. Where do we then go to actually compare funds against funds? Like, is there, is there a tool available? What's the best place to go for information to actually then put these criteria against each other?

Aidan: [00:31:09] There is the ATO, my super comparison tool. There are a couple of key criteria that that tool looks at. But really, you know, to go deeper, I think to make an informed and engaged choice, it's probably then a case of going into the PDFs, and rating some of the, the, the finer, the fingerprint on that. 

Bryce: [00:31:30] Yeah. It's getting under the hood. 

Alec: [00:31:32] All the information is always there. You just have to get the PDFs you know. And I think, for people who want to compare funds and with those four criteria, even just going to the issuers website and, you know, like this, there's so much information there, you do have to just do the work. So I guess I didn't, as we sort of get towards the end of this episode, we've talked about the basics that we should all be doing. Then we've sort of spoken about the key criteria that we should all be thinking about and applying to our choice of super fund. Let's close out by just talking about some of the additional resources out there that we can all access and that we can all use to make the most informed decision possible when it comes to our super. 

Aidan: [00:32:21] So there are additional resources as well. You know, certainly things where we look at around the super ratings survey, again, you know, that's helpful to look at sort of longer term returns categorised by different levels of growth assets. Other comparison websites can start. And Fonda. And I'd also put in there for people that are, sort of looking to plan to understand how much their contributions might equate to, in terms of wealth at retirement and then the kind of income they could draw offsetting retirement. Essex Money Smart website has retirement calculators. I would just say those that are helpful guides. But be aware that the assumptions may not relate to someone's situation, but certainly that some of the resources that the way I think about. 

Alec: [00:33:06] The last one and this is a particular bugbear for Bryce and I, is actually getting financial advice and, the recent Vanguard, retirement study we were writing before this interview. And the stat from that was that almost 2 in 3 working age Australians have never engaged a financial advisor. And this is where our bugbear comes from, because I think if you surveyed them and asked them how many of them would like to engage a financial advisor? A lot of them would. The way we survey our audience here at equity rates every year, and I think it was something like less than 10% had a financial advisor and more than 60% wanted a financial advisor. So that's structural inequality that we're not going to solve on this call. But I think if you can afford a financial advisor and you can access one, I think they're a great resource to make sure your super is optimised as well. 

Aidan: [00:34:00] And there is a sort of well publicised advice gap that you've referred to. So it's not just about individuals sort of not seeking advice, but it's actually, you know, the number of advisors and the capacity to meet that need that the quality of advice review that's underway at the moment is sort of looking at sort of some of the other things that can be done to help provide guidance. But the research that you reference from Vanguard, How Australia retires, probably one of the biggest takeaways from that that it's worth calling out is, you know, the earliest someone plans, the more confident they'll be at retirement. And that plan doesn't just mean a formal plan with an advisor, but even informally. So, you know, thinking about the messages in here and, you know, the education that you do for your audience, that's all helpful to start that planning process. You know, in that research that's been the biggest driver of retirement conferences is starting that planning journey early.

Bryce: [00:34:53] Yeah, I think that's a great piece of advice to end on starting early. And this is a key theme throughout this whole series that we're doing with Vanguard is that early start and paying attention the better. And some of the things that we've spoken about today are not overly complicated. You just need to sit down and actually pay attention and have a look. So that's the good news. You don't need to be a financial expert to actually act on what we've spoken about in our episode today. 

Alec: [00:35:21] Yeah. My biggest takeaway from what you just said Aidan is that confidence is within people's grasp, because I think so many people are not confident now and feel like that they will never be confident about it. But I think engaging with you is super sitting down and, you know, thinking about some of the things we've spoken about it is all possible. And, and you can be confident that you're on the right track. 

Aidan: [00:35:47] Yeah very much so. 

Bryce: [00:35:48] We just want to say a massive thank you to Vanguard Super for supporting this superannuation series. Backed by 45 years of global investment expertise, Vanguard Super offers Australians a simpler, smarter option when it comes to their financial future.

Alec: [00:36:01] Whether you're just starting your career or planning your retirement, Vanguard has you covered. Head to vanguard.com..au/super to explore Vanguard Super. 

Bryce: [00:36:10] Vanguard Super Proprietary Limited is the trustee of Vanguard Super. Read the relevant PDS and T&D available at Vanguard. Accommodate your super and consider if a product is right for you before making any financial decisions. But I and a massive thank you for coming on to the show today. We do really appreciate you taking the time to walk us through some of those simple things that we can do, and ensure that we're taking those boxes when it comes to setting up our super correctly and helping you choose the right one. So thank you so much. 

Aidan: [00:36:36] Thank you both, it's a pleasure.