Bonus: William Studebacker – The future of robotics and automation | ETF Securities

Bryce: [00:00:15] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast that follows our journey of investing, whether you're an absolute beginner or approaching Warren Buffett status. Our aim is to help break down your barriers from beginning to dividend. My name is Bryce, and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How are you going? 

Alec: [00:00:31] I'm very good. Bryce. I'm very excited for this episode were exploring a topic that we get very excited about, but we don't know a lot about, so I'm very excited to know a little bit more about it by the end of this episode. 

Bryce: [00:00:44] That's it, and we are very excited to welcome an expert to help us understand more about this exciting somatic, and it is our pleasure to welcome William Studebacker to the studio. William, welcome. 

William Studebacker: [00:00:57] Good morning. Great to be here. Look forward to helping educate you guys on robotics. 

Bryce: [00:01:03] So, William, I will refer to him as Bill. Throughout the episode is the president and CEO of Robo Global, the company that builds the index that's behind the ETF Securities, Global Robotics and Automation ETF. The ASX code is robo. And today we're going to be chatting with Bill about state of the robotics industry and you know how this thematic is really playing out and the investment opportunities that it's presenting. So Ren. Let's kick off with the bit about the ETF and then get stuck in. 

Alec: [00:01:34] Yeah. Well, Bill, as Bryce mentioned, we're here to talk global robotics and automation. It's a topic that seems to be on the forefront of a lot of investors minds, especially with everything that's going on at the moment with supply chain crises. So we're excited to get into all of that in today's episode. But let's start with the ETF and the robo index that you build. What is it designed to give investors exposure to? 

William Studebacker: [00:01:59] So just by way of background, so everyone understands what we do. We are an index advisor research company that is specifically focussed on helping investors capture what we believe is a massive opportunity in the fast growing areas of robotics, automation, artificial intelligence and health care innovation around the world. And believe it or not, we were actually the first company ever to have created a robotics and automation strategy that we brought to market, and we did it almost nine years ago, and our strategy is designed with deep fundamental research really to capture the best of breed companies globally that sit within what we call RAI, which is robotics, automation, artificial intelligence ecosystem where we're trying to capture the technologies and the applications. And I said, you know, we did this, interestingly enough, you know, nine years ago with the belief that we were on the cusp of ubiquitous automation. And, you know, at the time, most sort of understood robotics and AI to be kind of like Elon Musk, you know, science fiction technologies. But we had a much different interpretation, which was that these technologies weren't science fiction. They weren't niche. Rather, they were what we call foundational technologies that are really being applied to all industries in all markets. And as a result, we believe that these technologies had the potential to be far more disruptive than in what many understand the internet to be. I mean, I think we all understand the internet now. But back in the late nineties, no one really understood the internet. But the internet transformed how we socialise. You know, how we consume media brought about search and e-commerce. And you know, that's it. Again, these are technologies, robotics. They are there to transform every industry and it is interesting. We launched we were one of only a handful of thematic technologies using globally. I mean, I think we were one of five or six companies that had created a thematic sort of idea. Now there's hundreds that are attempting to do this. And, you know, at that time, even now, the challenge with Wall Street has been the inability to invest in Emacs because it served not tick specific Wall Street style boxes, if you will. And as a result, they were often overlooked by investors. But you know, this is changing, and I think investors are beginning to understand the power of disruptive technologies. And so we're pretty excited. Covid has really ignited the robotics and AI arms race. And I think as we look forward, we're not going to automate, you know, less. It should be increasingly more and more so. I think this is something that should be important to all investors and consumers. 

Bryce: [00:04:40] So Bill, it's an index that has a lot of companies in it that we haven't really heard of before. And I think that's what's exciting about it. There's so much sort of innovation and opportunity to explore new things. Are you able to tell us how this index is put together and in particularly the panel of experts that assess the companies that then, you know, guide and go into this index? Sure. 

William Studebacker: [00:05:02] Well, the most important thing we did nine years ago, there were quite a lot of heavy lifting that no one had done before was identify and classify the entire global ecosystem of robotics A.I.. And to to make sense of this sort of unstructured opportunity meant that we had to research the entire world to identify and segment companies inside what we've identified as our own proprietary subsector classification system. And we did this with a team of not only financial but industry experts. We actually have seven advisors on our team who are PhDs in the field of robotics and automation, and they're on the frontlines of building the technologies in the industry. Many are entrepreneurs and have identified and have developed technology and companies that are in the front and centre of our lives. One example is the gentleman whose name is Raph D'Andrea, who was one of the co-founders of Kiva Systems and Keeping Systems is now Amazon Robotics, and that's the 300000 robots plus inside of Amazon that allow fulfilment to happen not inside of weeks, not inside of days, but soon to be inside of ours. And so he was building warehouse algorithms back in 2005, and he has two partners sold, like the Amazon in 2011 $300 million. And this really helped sort of captivate the robotics and arms race, particularly in warehouse and logistics automation. So their insights as entrepreneurs and industry thought leaders, you know, coupled with, you know, our deep domain expertise, you know, cannot be very easily replicated by others. So again, we sort of research the global value chain to identify companies that we see have high revenue purity in robotics automation. And I have industry leadership to have the technology dominance. And we then sort of apply that ESG filter that captures the companies that comply with sustainable investing in and out pops, a portfolio that's really very differentiated relative to traditional indices or versus almost most all portfolios that investors that own because these companies, believe it or not, are not owned by many investors. And it's a portfolio that we rebalance quarterly. We essentially have a weighting scheme that gives investors exposure without a lot of excess of risks and lower volatility. Our top 10 names, as example, represent less than 18 percent of of our Dollars or the weighting. And this has generated returns the last three years that are pretty commendable. We've generated twenty by twenty one percent, Carragher that last three years in the strategy, and we think that this is the start of many more years to come. 

Alec: [00:07:59] Yeah, I think it's a it's a really interesting ETF. When I first looked at it, I expected to see Amazon in there because when I think of robotics, I think of an Amazon warehouse. But I was surprised to say that Amazon wasn't in there. But the point you made there about revenue purity, I think, is an important one to stress. The companies in this index and in this ETF aren't just using robots, but they have to actually be making money from robotics and automation. So a company like Amazon that benefits from it from robotics but doesn't make money from robotics won't ever be in the index. 

William Studebacker: [00:08:36] Well, that that's right. So we're going to do is we're going to the gold rush and we're identifying, you know, the sort of picks and shovels. You know, Amazon has done a remarkable job of using these technologies to enable their business, but they're not, you know, probably directly from selling these technologies. So there's certainly, you know, area and value for that in investors portfolios. But I think increasingly almost all companies are going to have to use these technologies to enable their business in terms of improving productivity and generating higher growth. So I think we see all these technologies are having a natural to use case in virtually every business and every business model. So that's what we're focussed on again, is sort of the picks and shovels the technologies and the applications is what we're focussed on. 

Bryce: [00:09:25] So Bill, let's have a chat about the state of the robotics industry. No doubt that COVID has accelerated a number of trends, you know, e-commerce being one of them, and we imagine that this certainly holds true in the robotics industry as well. Let's start at the top. How would you describe the state of the robotics industry going into 2022? Did Covid have the have some sort of an impact as well? 

William Studebacker: [00:09:52] I would say the state of the environment is for lack of a better word on fire. You know, the COVID crisis sparked a wave of innovation and has launched a generation of entrepreneurs. And I think the philosopher Plato kind of was pretty right when he said, you know, necessity is indeed the mother of invention. And one area that has seen tremendous growth is is digitalisation, meaning that everything from online customer service to remote working, to supply chain reinvention, to the use of artificial intelligence and machine learning to improve operations. You know, health care has changed substantially with telehealth, and health care is moving now to a model of prediction prevention and that relies on data and analytics, which is digitisation. Globally, Covid brought a flood of new, you know, new businesses to market almost overnight in the US alone the third quarter of 2020. Just to give you an idea, there were more than 1.5 million new business applications, and that's almost double the figure for the same period in 2019, and we're seeing varying degrees of this happen in benefits, you know, in countries really, you know, throughout the world. So, you know, I would say digitally enabled productivity gains have accelerated really the fourth industrial revolution. We're at the early innings of this and you know, we're not really even in any one. In US baseball parlance, I would say that the players are in the locker room, you know, getting their clothes on or in a cricket game. They're just, you know, getting their shoes right on. And you know, we we've seen like the shift to online retail is real and this is going to stick, you know, in the United States. The penetration of e-commerce was forecast in 2019 to reach twenty four percent by 2024, and by July of 2020, it had hit 33 percent of total retail sales. So to put it another way, the first half of 2020 saw an increase in the equivalent of e-commerce, equivalent to that of the previous 10 years. This is all a function of robotics, automation and artificial intelligence, so there is tremendous growth in the years ahead. 

Alec: [00:12:22] Well, Bill, as we enter 2022, two of the biggest stories in financial markets seem to be both be accelerators of robotics adoption, the disruptions we've seen in supply chains. And then also the labour shortages that we're seeing, particularly in the US. But but around the world, how are you seeing companies respond to that? Are you seeing companies accelerate their robotics strategies in response? 

William Studebacker: [00:12:50] Well, I think clearly without question, the answer is yes. I mean, the pandemic revealed vulnerabilities in, you know, in the global complicated supply chain of many companies. You know, the pandemic has poise, you know, is created significant challenges for supply chains globally that have to be solved. I mean, multiple national lockdowns have and continue to slow or even temporarily stop the flow of materials and finished goods. I mean, that's disrupting manufacturing as a result. And, you know, in the aftermath of severe disruption from Covid, we've seen that enterprises plan to shake up their supply chain strategies to become more resilient, collaborative and networked. And this is all requires automation and robotics. And to do that, they have to increase investment in supply chain technologies like a robotics robotic process automation. Even guess what? While retraining workers, I think everyone has the assumption in the illusion that automation is going to replace, you know, all workers and we're going to have a worker lost society. And I think that is a a misunderstanding. I think that automation is creating new industries and new classifications of work, and I don't think that we can truthfully identify what the future of work exactly entails. The impact in hundred, we had 60 percent of our workforce, whether it was an AG. Now, you know, there's two percent and now we're producing more with less. So I think that you know what this really means is that robots are going to do all of our work. They're just going to help and collaborate a lot more often in certain economic times or periods. You know, what you see is you just copy slow down their technology investments almost to a trickle. But, you know, during the pandemic, many companies or the smart companies didn't halt their technology investments. And I think this speaks to the value of the digital supply chain in helping, you know, as you talk about, you know, enterprises navigate, you know, disruptive forces and respond faster to supply and demand. So I think big changes around this are on the horizon for supply chains and all this is going to result in more efficiency. It's. The result in reskilling supply chain workers and productivity and growth are going to be the result 

Bryce: [00:15:22] of this ability. In preparing for this interview, we read that the industrial robotics and factory automation industry is actually quite cyclical, which surprised us. Are you able to talk us through why this is the case and the dynamics within this industry? 

William Studebacker: [00:15:39] Yeah. Well, I think, you know, the main reason is that they are capital intensive industries, and they were very capital intensive in years past when you think about, you know, putting in a robotic or automation system. I mean, take, for example, going into the auto industry. I mean, we knew that the robots have been around since the 1960s and they were basically designed to do, you know, dull, dirty and dangerous jobs or obviously lift more than than humans could. But they were they were dangerous, and they had to be segmented in certain geographies within a factory and not be surrounded by people because obviously, if there was wrong human action, it would result in injury or fatalities. And when you put a system like that in, you know, it was going to cost hundreds of thousands, if not potentially tens of millions of dollars, because once it was in, it was not going to go out. And I think that, you know, generally speaking, that has been the mosaic that a lot of companies observe. But I think what you're learning about robotics, A.I., that's a little bit different right now is that you years past it was hard to put these systems in place because the rise of these systems were, in many cases, you know, many years. We're talking four or five, six, seven years to capture it all. Now you're seeing a rise in some cases inside of months, and that's a result of the computing power that's doubling every 18 months and the cost of the computing and the integration is plummeting to now create a review case use cases that historically was just Elon Musk's science fiction, and that's not the case now. So the industry has been very cyclical and application. But I think this is beginning to change pretty dramatically as we move forward. 

Alec: [00:17:32] So Bill would love to move to some of the biggest companies in the index because when we opened up the the Excel file and looked through the top, the top holdings, we were surprised to find we weren't familiar with many of the names, any of the top names. So for each of the top three holdings, we'd love to understand what the company does, how it fits in to the robotics and automation thematic. And then, I guess a brief word on what the bull and the bear case is for the company. So let's start with the biggest holding in the index viscera communications. Can you tell us a little bit about the company? 

William Studebacker: [00:18:10] Yeah. Well, Boeser is actually the largest holding, given the fact that it actually has now has a takeover offer, and Boeser is around it only a $2.7 billion market cap, and they're actually a provider of hands free, voice activated kind of work. So workflow solutions, and they've then have a take on offer by Stryker that's looking to acquire them for a valuation around three billion dollars, which is ten times in 2023. Even EV sales and we need the transaction is really pretty amazing because it's highly complementary to Stryker. The striker has a solid market position with extensive sort of reach in in technologies and portfolios around, you know, medical devices, and they're well positioned within the hospital and the medical ecosystem. And we see both Sarah, their technology, their software and their communications platform to be an easy sell into their existing base of business. So. So it's hard to actually point to a bear case, given that, you know, this is now almost a third of our index, believe it or not, since we launched it a little less than nine years ago has been acquired. And so a lot of these technologies, like for Sarah, sort of sit in a sweet spot in the M&A cycle that are delivering a lot of value to investors. And so this is a this is a name that, you know, we think is really pretty interesting and it's hard to create a lot of barricades as to this. I mean, the barricades, you know, we saw during Covid where the stock did come under pressure because, you know, a lot of a lot of spending in hospitals, you know, went went from pretty vigorous level to almost nonexistent for a period of a few months. And a lot of spending on hospitals is elective that ends up being pushed out. We did see that that was the opportunity for investors to buy it. We saw. A similar pattern and really a lot of her holdings where they were sort of thrown out with the bath water and people forgot the importance of the technology and platform that many of these companies offer, another name or index that I'm sure you've identified is a rhythm and cell cardiac monitoring devices, and this is the FDA approved technology was actually approved back in 2009. I think as we're moving to a world in health care of prediction and prevention where you can be monitoring someone's, you know, in this, in this case, cardiac rhythm on a daily basis, you're not susceptible to the vagaries of seeing what may happen six months out or a year out. When you have a physician visits visit, you know this is being monitored on a daily basis. You know, there is a massive market, you know, not only in the U.S. but globally for monitoring activities. So we think this is a name that sits right within our wheelhouse for what we're doing. You know, another name that is the number three waiting at our index is air tax, which is a Taiwanese company, and they provide pneumatic equipment like actuators. Actuators are kind of what makes a robot or autonomous system move with submillimetre accuracy. They've seen demand for solutions grow quite exponentially, driven by the rollout of 5G and automation in general, and 90 percent of their business is actually into China. China has a pretty pronounced template and directive for scaling automation throughout their economy, and they have a, you know, a one, three, five and 10 year plan on developing automation. So with Big Tech, you know, it's really well positioned in that market as well. And again, all three of these names are are not exactly household names. I think we tried to do importantly is, as I talked about before, is identify companies that have high revenue purity, have market share leader ship, have technology leadership. We're also looking for companies that invest aggressively into their business, and that is going to show up in a way of higher revenue exposure in their business. And also it's going to help enable their business. So it's kind of a double whammy. And as a result of this, we find companies that in essence are, you know, we sort of revenue way are indexed. So that's why you're going to see a very differentiated portfolio. And importantly, these are real companies that the real technologies and very stable and sound balance sheets over 60 percent of our index has a net cash position and no debt. And if you were to compare that in the US to the S&P 500, it would probably be somewhere in the neighbourhood of around 20 percent or less, whatever net cash position. So that's a result of, you know, these being really sort of cash generative businesses. And so we are are very interested in that as well. 

Bryce: [00:23:34] Yeah, it's certainly a very interesting index and subsequently the ETF Securities, Global Robotics and automation ETF. And I think those three companies I hadn't heard of before, and that's what I love about investing, you know, coming across companies that are leading the way in innovation, helping the society in our lives improved. So it's a fascinating thematic. Unfortunately, we have run out of time, though, Bill, but thank you very much. If people wanted more information on what you do. Is there any way that they can go to find out more? 

William Studebacker: [00:24:05] Yeah, please. I think we have a great resource on our website, robo global dot com, and we provide a lot of insight into the technologies that we're investing in. We have very frequent podcast and and webinars that that we also host, and we have a tremendous amount of content on companies that we write about, white papers that we've written. And more recently, we did a big report on the importance of M&A in robotics and AI and how investors still benefit from it. So please use that as a resource.

Bryce: [00:24:42] Awesome. And I'm glad we now have an expert, a leading expert in the industry that we can dial up should our community have more questions. So we've got your number now, bill, so beware will be buzzing you. But look, thank you very much for your time and for sort of helping us work through this really exciting thematic. So we appreciate it. So Ren, we've just had the pleasure of speaking with William about all things robotic and A.I., and now we're joined in the studio by Kanish Chugh, head of distribution at ETF Securities to, as is now customary, talk through the ETF that they have listed. That allows us to actually access this thematic. 

Alec: [00:25:28] That's right. So Kanish let's start at the beginning. Why robo as a thematic? 

Kanish Chugh: [00:25:33] Well, it's funny when we think about robo, is it the Medicaid covers robotics, automation and artificial intelligence. Now in our day and age and everyday life, we're pretty much accessing products or services that have some input within robotics, automation and even the fact that when you turn on your Google smart home, your smart TV, when you order groceries through Woollies or Coles, you know, all of that is using some form of robotics, automation and AI. So it's pervasive in our current life and it's only going to continue. And I think a big part actually at the moment is when you think about the supply chain bottlenecks and disruption that we're having. Forty four percent of a recent survey of organisations across different industries was saying that logistical automation and the use of robots will have a major or moderate impact in reducing supply chain disruption. So what we're actually saying there is robots automation, artificial intelligence. They're the solution to issues that we're currently facing and issues that we're going to face in the future. And it's not just across, you know, these are companies that it's interesting to see the industries that that they're in. 

Bryce: [00:26:41] So with all of these sort of, you know, new and new megatrends, I guess, that are that are available for us to invest in, we can either take the direct route and invest in individual companies or we can take that passive route. You guys have created the ETFs Robo Global Robotics and Automation ETF. The ticker is robo. So why is a passive ETF the right way to invest in a thematic like robotics and AI? 

Kanish Chugh: [00:27:06] Well, for this ETF, we partnered obviously with the robo global team. So you know, you guys have just spoken to Will Studebacker. He is, you know, the pre-eminent authority on everything a part of this megatrend. I think the robo global team itself are really unique in the sense of they actually started off as stock pickers. It was a combination of a number of stock pickers that came together to decide, well, there is no index tracking this because it's really hard. How do you define this there's no sector classification. You know, there's no classification. There's no there's, you know, we've got companies that are part of the enabling technologies. So these are basically companies that are involved in sensing computing and AI actuation and integration. So essentially the technologies that allow intelligent systems and artificial intelligence systems to interact in the human world across many industries. And then you've got the actual application side of the the actual good side. So whether that's healthcare, 3D printing, food and ag autonomous systems, so you've got all of these different areas. So for a stock picker, how are you to know which one to look at? And you know, the robot global often talk about, we're not there to pick the winners or losers. We're there to invest in the same. So this ETF tracks that robo global index has got over 80 companies that are looking at this thematic across various different sectors. And to your point, if you were to look at some of those names in the portfolio, I'd be surprised if people knew all of them or even some of them, because that was the interesting thing when I remember looking at it a few years ago when we launched the ETF. 

Alec: [00:28:42] Yeah, it is. It is fascinating. I am used to opening up the top holdings of an ETF and recognising at least some of the names. I like to think after doing this podcast for four and a bit years, I'm recognising more and more of the names. But I can confidently say I hadn't heard of any of the top three of this ETF viscera communications I rhythm tech harmonic drive systems, which is exciting because it's just a whole nother world that we get to explorers and investors. So maybe talk to us about some of these biggest holdings. Why these companies, what do they do? Why should we be excited by them? 

Kanish Chugh: [00:29:20] Yeah. So the search communications, for example, they essentially have a unique comms and workflow platform for sort of the hospital system. So they're very much focussed on the medical field. You've got companies like Intuitive Surgical, so they trade what's called the da Vinci machine. Now, the da Vinci machine is essentially a robot that does body surgeries. You know, you can peel a grape with the use of that robotic arms of the da Vinci machine and then sort of stitch them back up together, all in the comfort of another room across the world. So you know that finite movement trying to remove stammer from surgeries and surgeons, you've got companies like iRobot. People know of iRobot. So that's a. A common name, it's a, you know, they make those Roomba vacuum cleaners, so the robotic vacuum cleaners and mops. But what about Chinook Snook very much in that area of manufacturing and logistical automation? You've got companies that people might know of, for example, Ocado A Cardoz, a UK based grocery logistical company, and they feature in the portfolio of the tie up with Coles here in Australia to do the fulfilment centres. Part of the reason why I think when you look at the full find, you go, well, I actually don't know a lot of these names. It's because of that robo global teams, they've got teams of research analysts, but they've also got a team of strategic advisers. And those strategic advisers are experts in their field. Actually, former entrepreneurs, professors, you know, the head of the MIT Robotics Centre, Daniel Larrousse, is part of that strategic advisory chain. And you talk about Amazon robotics. So Amazon Robotics, before Amazon bought the company that is now Amazon Robotics was called cable systems. The founder of that is a man by the name of Rafael d'Andrea. Now, Raph basically sits on the Advisory Committee for Robo Global's index today, speaking with the robo global team and telling them, Guys, you need to be looking at certain areas of this mega trend. You need to be looking at 3D systems, but within 3D systems, you need to be looking at commercial 3D system companies. They're setting up meetings, providing them insight into those companies as well. So that's why we end up with a portfolio that is very different, and the weighting of them is also unique. So each of these companies have to have a high revenue purity to the theme. They've got to be innovating and they've got to be market leaders. So you can't have a company in there that's like Amazon, for example. Yes, they've got Amazon robotics, but they use Amazon robotics all for themselves. They don't generate any revenue for. Amazon will never feature in this portfolio, even though they've got one of the biggest robotic businesses in the world. It's purely for their own purpose in their own service. It's not for anyone else and something just on the portfolio and people sometimes talk about, Well, why can't I just get this through buying the S&P 500 index? Why can't I just do it by buying, you know, Minsky all world broad based global ETF, for example, or they look at some of the other assets looking at this dramatic, the crossover between the current portfolio and the S&P 500 is 3.4 percent. The crossover between this and a broad global portfolio such as a whisky all country world index is 3.2 percent. So what you're trying to say there is you may get some of the names, but you're not getting the concentrated focus and attention that you would, and you may not get all the names as well. So again, sometimes it's hard to be the stock picker. Sometimes it's hard to try and take the broad approach. If you want the thematic, it's easier to go down finding these thematic ETFs. 

Bryce: [00:32:50] Yeah, we used to work in retail, and part of my job was to actually look into the robotics that were coming through in the sort of retail industry, and it was fascinating and exciting to see the innovation that was coming in. But there were also so many companies companies just to sort of sift through. So having that advisory board as part of the, you know, guiding the selection of these stocks, I think is a great asset for this ETF. So just to close out any sort of final thoughts, I guess, on your thoughts, you know, future prospect for the industry, any numbers to kind of paint the picture for the outlook? What are your final thoughts? 

Kanish Chugh: [00:33:28] Yeah, I think my final thought would be in the current climate with people concerned about growth stocks. This particular ETF, because of its tilt towards industrial, those sorts of manufacturing companies, it's got a tilt towards cyclical, which is interesting. When you think about a thematic, you generally think it's growth. But no, it's actually got a bit of a value tilt to it. I'm about 40 percent of the portfolio is tilted towards cyclicals. You also look at the companies within the ETF, and 57 percent of Robie's portfolio have a net debt of less than zero. So they have no debt net debt. You know, you look at the S&P 500, it's about 18 percent of companies. Have you know that a net debt of less than zero. Nasdaq 100 is 48 percent. So you're looking at very strong companies as well. Again, companies we may not have heard of that are very strong companies. And so you're either looking at it's got the value tilt people as I start to reopen, there is this increased demand if you think about supply chain bottlenecks. Well, these are the sorts of companies that are probably going to be the solution for that as well. 

Bryce: [00:34:30] Well, as always, thank you so much for your time coming on and sharing your thoughts on the robo thematic. The ETF is ETFs robo global robotics and automation ETF. The ticker is ASX Robo. Where can our listeners go to find more info and to understand if the product is right for them? 

Kanish Chugh: [00:34:49] Sure, the best place to go is the ETF Securities Website, ETF Securities.com.au. on there you can click on the product line up and click on Robo. You've got the PDFs, the full holdings. So all sort of 80+ names are there and the TMD for the fund as well as there as well, and obviously speak with an investment professional for any advice that. Personal nature. 

Bryce: [00:35:08] Nice one. Well, I think we say it every episode that we love the innovative ETF ETFs that you guys are pushing out and can't wait to see what's in store for 2022. But yeah, it's been a pleasure chatting. So thank you very much. Thanks a lot, guys.