Ask an Advisor: Practical ways to establish your financial wellbeing

Bryce: [00:00:16] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast that follows our journey of investing and whether you're an absolute beginner or approaching Warren Buffett status. Our aim is to help break down your barriers from beginning to dividend. Now, if you've joined us for the very first time, a huge welcome. It's great that you have got started on your investing journey. If you want to get up to speed with the absolute basics, head across to our Get Started Investing podcast. Otherwise, let's get stuck in. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy, Ren. How are you? 

Alec: [00:00:43] I'm very good, Bryce. Very excited for this episode, loving this series that we're doing. Ask an advisor on the podcast here. We're getting some of Australia's best financial advisors into the studio and we're asking them our questions and the questions from the Equity Mates community. And if you don't, if you're not, subscribe to our mailing list, you might be missing our Ask an Advisor email that Bryce sends out every Thursday, which again is another forum to ask these advisors questions. We know the cost of financial advice is unaffordable for most. It's certainly unaffordable for us and this is our opportunity to use the platform to ask some advisors some questions. 

Bryce: [00:01:25] Yeah, we've had some awesome questions come in that were covering this episode, but also that we're covering weekly in the atrium. So the email sign up is in the show notes, so make sure you sign up for that if you're not already. But today's advisor is Ben Wauchope from Wealth Health Co. And the overall theme of today's episode is financial wellbeing and how to set yourself up at different stages of your life. A lot of the questions, as I said, have come in from the community. So a massive shout out to you guys. Keep them coming. ask@equitymates.com is the email to send through your questions that's ask@equitymates.com. But Ren, without further ado, let's jump straight into it. So. Well, Ben, welcome to Equity Mates. 

Ben: [00:02:08] My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Bryce: [00:02:11] So this is part of the Asking Advisor series, and we are going to cover a few different topics today. We've got cost of living questions that have come in from the community and then a bit around financial wellbeing and how we can set up financial wellbeing and security at different stages of our life. So let's kick off with the cost of living questions. And the first one that has come through from the community is how much of my income should go towards my rent or my mortgage as a percentage? [00:02:41][30.3]

Ben: [00:02:42] Well, yeah, I mean, this is what really depend on where you're situated in terms of family and work, because it's not that easy just to relocate in order to reduce those costs. But I would say if you sort of young to try and reduce these costs as much as possible. So if you've got the luxury of staying at home with mum and Dad, don't take this for granted, is a sort of a great way to keep costs low, allowing you to sort of cycle over time. The other way, I guess if you have to rent, would be renting a room in a share house, which is going to be much cheaper than renting in place by yourself. Obviously, as you get older and living in a shared house, people are going to get over it. So, you know, as you get older, you probably want to get your own space. So reducing these costs when you're younger, you should be able to put more towards saving for you sort of first deposit of your own home. But I guess the rule, general rule of thumb, I mean, Scott Pay the Barefoot Investor noted in his book, it was sort of no more than 25% of your take home pay as interest rates rising. That sort of makes it a little bit more difficult, especially if you're sort of living in a capital city like Sydney or Brisbane, where house prices are pretty high. You've got rising interest rates. So I guess, yeah, there's no probably wrong answer there. But you know, yeah, I guess there's that of 25 to 30%. 

Alec: [00:04:08] I've always heard the 30% and I've always just shook my head at that. 

Bryce: [00:04:14] And what, what, what sense. 

Alec: [00:04:15] Well just like who's paying 30% or less of their gross take home pay on housing? It feels like most people are going to be over that at this time. Is that what you're saying in your clients? 

Ben: [00:04:28] 30%, I guess if you're in a couple at that 30% of net take home is going to be an easy target. Yeah, it's a lot harder as a single 30%. Yeah. Good, Good luck with that. And I guess it really depends on where you're living as well. And I guess it really depends on what's important to you. Like, do you value spending more time on where and how you live or other lifestyle choices or sort of improving your financial position for your future? So, you know, if you want to live in the city then and that's what you value, then spending sort of a higher percentage of your take home pay. You happy to make that trade off? Where if it's more about sort of, you know, improving your future position, then maybe taking a property further out? Not as close. To to the city would benefit. 

Bryce: [00:05:19] It's a challenge. We had an interview yesterday with a guy, Matt Barrie, who was speaking about the housing market and he was giving examples of people paying 70 to 80% income, which is just like, well, what does that leave you with? No, not a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, the next question is. Come on, Ben, is what are some of the best tips to help me get out of consumer debt that I racked up at university? We've all been there. 

Ben: [00:05:47] Well, I first. So I think it's important to sort of define what consumer debt actually is, because some people might not know that. So consumer debt refers to the sort of debt incurred by individuals for personal or household consumption purposes. So taking out debt to acquire everyday expenses for major purchases, things like credit cards, personal loans, car loans or buy now pay later services, which is that they're quite popular these days. So in terms of those debts, what tips to help me get out of them, I guess the first mistake I see a lot of my clients do is is solely focussed on paying down their consumer debt first at the expense of generating something like an emergency fund or cash reserve. I always advise my clients to build a cash reserve first before paying down their consumer debt because the issue is that you're going to make some progress paying down this consumer debt. But then if you sort of hit with any other unexpected costs so you can't break down, you've got some sort of medical issue or you've got one of your pets get sick, then you don't have any other savings to rely on to pay those expenses. And then you just force to rely back on other consumer debt. So taking out more credit cards and you just get in this sort of debt trap. So so I think the first thing is to make sure that you've got a cash flow plan in place. You're spending less than you earn, and then you sort of get that buffer initially. So that might be five or ten or 15, 15 grand. And then you focus on paying down that consumer debt from there. I guess if you've already got that financial sort of cushion in terms of a cash reserve, that you're sort of stuck with this high interest debt that's accumulating over time. I actually had a client last week and she had sort of one of these payday loans and the interest rate was 49%. Oh, well. So she was just paying $100 a week to do this. And it was just interest. It wasn't paying it down. So I guess in that case, you could look at something like a balance transfer on a credit card that has an interest free period. So that generally 12 to 24 months where you can take over that debt with a new credit because of that, using this balance transfer on a credit card, what you just have to make sure is that you're not making any new purchases on the credit card because the new pictures touches my. Yeah. Accrue interest and payments might be allocated towards the balance transfer amount first so that you're just going to start drawing interest on the new purchases. So you would only just use this as a way to clear that existing debt and then pay it off within the interest free period. So that's one strategy. But I mean, you've got to be careful with, I guess, making sure that you're doing it correctly and you've got the ability to obtain a new credit facility. 

Bryce: [00:08:42] Yeah, the first point was an interesting one. I think when you're leaving union, you've racked up a few days on the credit card. You're not likely to have an emergency fund or a buffer cash in the psychology of wanting to pay that off first before, you know, building that emergency fund I think, is one that people would grapple with because, you know, you don't you just want to get rid of that debt. But you can understand how you do get in that trap. If things do pop up, you don't have the cash that you keep relying on it. So that's some good advice.

Alec: [00:09:07] One other question, Ben, that we got from the community around cost of living was around setting up a good cashflow system. I think especially these days, you know, we've mentioned housing and stuff like that. It can be hard to feel like you're getting ahead. So what are the building blocks that we can put in place to set up a good cashflow system? 

Ben: [00:09:28] So I would say firstly that cash flow is the most important aspect to anyone's finances. So you could end, you know, you can be a high income earner, but if you spend all the money that you earn, you're not going to get ahead. So having really good sort of habits and behaviour around your cash flow is the most important thing to, I guess, exciting from a financial point of view. And that sort of really starts with knowing what your income is. So most people, you know, if they're salary and wage employees, they know that they've got a regular fortnightly or monthly or weekly income for all the people that may be doing shift work, that might change a little bit because you've got overtime or penalty allowances. But I guess getting a figure that's going to regularly come in that, you know, yeah, it's going. To be there. And then the second step is knowing your expenditure. So what? What does it cost you to live? And that can be really hard. So there are some applications like Frollo. That's a free one. There's a few other ones like myself that I use that doesn't data scrape your bank accounts and your transactions. Okay. So we can sort of sit down and go, okay, well, over the past 12 months, this is what you've spent and we know the actual figures.

Bryce: [00:10:45] So just on that does that because Ren's had this gripe with CBA and they not actually like I think the app tries to categorise your spending, but it does a good job. 

Alec: [00:10:56] You get these like broad and ultimately useless categorisations and you can set the categorisations yourself, but they're so broad and there's like eight buckets. You can't actually get any meaningful insight into how you spend them. 

Bryce: [00:11:10] So do these apps do a good job at that? 

Ben: [00:11:13] Well, from Money Stopped I mean, I guess it's what I do for a job. So I've set my rules up, which took a long time, but. Right. And then I've got to go through it doesn't automatically get it right. You know, I'm getting so I'm going to go in and then categorise it so that probably. But yeah that's the biggest one that I spend but I think it is so important to get those figures to show. Okay well this is what it's cost me to leave at the moment So we know the figures and then we can sort of we can break it down further and go, okay, well lazy or sort of fixed costs, get your loans, your your bills, you know, medical costs, insurances, utilities, all of these things that you can't really get away from. It just cost me. It's just the cost of living as opposed to your discretionary costs, which are going out to the pub or going out and buying concert tickets or what or shopping which you have full sort of control over on whether you spend that money or not. So it's breaking it down into, you know, your more your fixed costs and then you discretionary costs and then knowing, okay, well my loans are costing me this, my fixed costs are cost me this, I've got X amount left over that I can then either decide to spend on discretionary costs and if I want to get into a into a surplus position so I'm saving money moving forward, then I know that I'll have to spend X amount on discretionary costs because if I spend more, I'm going to either spend everything that I earn or I'm going to actually spend more than I own. So you then have a sort of you can have a banking bank account structure that you've got, you know, your bills accounted for, your lines accounted for, and then you might get a weekly allowance into your fund spending, discretionary money of whatever that might be, leaving X amount left over to put towards your other financial goals. So it's sort of a bank account structure where you've got set, I guess, allowances and generally setting things up to be automated is a good thing. So you might get paid on every, every Thursday. So these automatic transfers go into these other bank accounts on Friday. And then, you know, you've got $200 this week to spend on fun. And if I spend more than that, then I'm going to be adding into another bucket and it's going to break down and I'm going to forgo achieving my goals this way. But you're making that educated decision. So having the numbers is really important. 

Bryce: [00:13:42] Well, that's good because that's what Ren and I spoken about on the show is the power of automating as much of your cash management as possible. So then when we were preparing for the interview, we let the community know that you're, you know, you're from Wealth Health Co and have a focus on financial wellbeing. And one of the questions that came from the community was that they keep hearing about financial wellbeing, but what to understand what it is beyond just I guess, financial security, Is there more to it? Is it a buzzword? How do you define sort of financial wellbeing? 

Ben: [00:14:16] Yeah, Okay. So yeah, so I guess firstly wellbeing is defined as the state of being comfortable, healthy or happy. So to me financial wellbeing is knowing that you're in control of your finances. So what does that mean? You've got, you know, your cash flow, you know that you're earning more than you're spending and that you're not in a state of financial stress. So you're able to meet your obligations, your loans on time, and you're not in fear of missing any repayments and that you're confident that you're working towards your financial goals. So yeah, I think it's just being accountable and happy in the fact that you're going to be able to achieve what you want to achieve. 

Bryce: [00:14:55] So in terms of setting up good practices to establish financial wellbeing, how do you talk to your clients about getting to that point of feeling comfortable or feeling happy? Yeah, take us through, I guess, the key pillars in achieving financial wellbeing.

Ben: [00:15:12] Yeah. Okay. I guess the first one is really knowing your why. So to define what you really want in life, what know why you want it, and what makes you tick. Because that's the first. Yeah. There's no point like working towards a financial sort of goal if it doesn't make you if it's not aligned with your sort of personal values. So that's the first stage I start with. Any client is really working out what's important to them, and a lot of people haven't taken that time to work that out. They just so busy head down, bob day to day working that they haven't actually taken the time to work out Where do I want to be in five years, in ten years? And so I'd say, yeah, knowing your why, what makes you tick is the first part of that. The second part is knowing that finances do play a big role in your life. So the key pillars of any sort of life, you know, you've got health, relationships, finances are a big part of it. So being aware of that and not sticking your head in the sand and really trying to bash out your understanding of financial aspects of your life I think is a big part. So your financial mindset is really important. So, I mean, I think that has come a long way in the last ten years with a lot of different podcasts and different access to sort of financial information is is helping people to improve that. Thirdly, I probably say knowing your numbers is a big part of it. So knowing your income or what you kn your expenses, your debt, so what you are and then your assets around what you own. Because if you know this, it sort of provides a clear picture of your current financial situation. And without this knowledge, I guess it's difficult to create a financial plan that is going to help you achieve you y. So going back to that first point around, well, you know what is important to me? Finally, I'll just say paying attention to your finances is super important as well. So what I mean by this is if you've got a mortgage, knowing what your interest rate is, knowing your entitlements at work, if you've got any employee benefits like salary, packaging, entitlements, just like yeah, just paying attention to everything and trying trying to sort of I guess to get the get the best deal that you can and making your finances as efficient as possible because that can drastically improve, I guess, your overall financial position. 

Alec: [00:17:37] That last point paying attention to your finances is an interesting one because on one hand we say, you know, overtraining is hazardous to your wealth and you don't want to be checking your portfolio all the time. And the best money plans are ones that are automated and, you know, regular. And then on the other hand, it's, you know, you've got to pay attention to your finances and have your finger on the pulse of what's going on and stuff like that. And I guess the way I approach that dichotomy or whatever you want to call it, is every quarter I put time aside to just check on like all the key financial stuff, like how my investments are going, all of that. Luckily, I don't have any consumer debt at the moment or mortgage, but you know that that would fall into that sort of quarterly. Just financial check in for your clients. How do you advise them to, I guess, set themselves up and manage their time so that they are both paying attention to their finances but then not paying too much attention that they're becoming obsessed or, you know, looking too much and then making silly decisions because they're panicking day to day.

Ben: [00:18:45] Yeah, Yeah. It's a good point. I think like so paying attention. Yeah, there's overkill. So like, let's say with you, with your mortgage, you probably want to be reviewing your mortgage probably every one to probably two years. So if you, you know, if you're looking to refinance or going back to the bank, there's no point doing it every month because, you know, you're not going to get anywhere with that. So if you've refinance to get a lower interest rate, then, you know, it's probably unlikely that you're going to be able to refinance again in another six months because you still going to be fairly in the market. So, yeah, maybe every two years you want to be checking on things like that. I guess all your sort of general insurances, your private health, your car, your home and contents, that type of thing. Probably reviewing them every year or two as well. So even just going to some comparison websites, just checking that you're still in the market because a lot of banks and these financial institutions look after new customers, so they try and incentivise new customers to come across that. I sort of look after existing customers that well. So there's probably, you know, you can always probably improve it, improving those areas every, every 1 to 2 years as well. 

Bryce: [00:20:04] Now before we just jump to an ad break, I'd like to know what is your why Ben, like what are you actually trying to work towards? I mean, you're always. Dishing out advice, but I'd love to know. On your side of the fence. Are you a fire guy? You're searching for a number or. Yeah. What? What is your. Why? 

Ben: [00:20:24] I've got a young family, so I've got a pretty much a two year old. And we've got an X one due in three weeks. So congrats. For me, it's really about probably when I grew up I had a lot of a lot of space. We had like a big backyard swimming pool and playing with friends was, was like, Yeah, that's what I remember from my childhood. So I want to be able to give that to my kids. So at the moment, I sort of. Yeah, My wife is really working hard to be able to purchase a bigger house so that my kids can grow up. So that's yeah, that's my wife at the moment. 

Bryce: [00:20:57] Love that. Yes. I have fond memories of running around in big backyard in Wagga as well, but here in Sydney, for me.

Ben: [00:21:07] Having any type of land is like a distant dream. 

Bryce: [00:21:10] Yes. Anyway, we're going to take a quick break, but then on the other side, we're going to go through some ways that we can support our financial wellbeing at different stages of life, whether we're just starting out or at that stage of transitioning into retirement and what we can be doing at each of those stages. So we'll be right back. Well, welcome back. We are here with Ben Wauchope from Wealth Health Co financial planning firm and mortgage broking service. And we're discussing the cost of living and also financial wellbeing. Now, Ben, you've recently written some content around how to build and support wellbeing at different life stages, and I think that's quite important because what we do when we're in our early teens and twenties is probably very different to those that are in their forties and then going on to retirement in later in life. So we want to understand how you think about each of those life stages. So let's start with what you classified as the wealth starters. Who are they and what matters at this stage of one's sort of financial wellbeing journey.

Ben: [00:22:20] Yeah, so, so wealth starters outside, you know, those people in their sort of twenties and early May up to 35. So I guess, you know, you just started adding reliable income. I guess the first thing is getting good habits around your cash flow. As I said before earlier in the podcast that, you know, cash flow is the number one thing to to him to show you so that I guess you're building on your finances. So control your spending, develop sort of the discipline to live within your income so that you don't fall into sort of bad financial habits, including those sort of debt traps outside spending money that you don't have on credit cards or buy now pay later schemes, prepare for emergencies. So as I said before, you know, doing up a a cash buffer so that if you are hit with some unexpected costs, you've got the ability to pay them. Starting to look to invest in your future, I think is really important as well. So, you know, whether that's sort of initiating some sort of small investment plan, just getting getting into the habit of putting some money away for the future, I mean, you've got your superannuation that's going to be coming in automatically, but by the time you retire, that's clear that that age is getting pushed out and out. So having some other sort of source of passive income source that you're building over time and it doesn't have to be a big amount, but just getting in that habit of putting something away. So I'd say, yeah, those are the, the major things at the wealth start of stage. 

Alec: [00:23:59] One question we got from the community, Ben, was around the stock market and investing I guess at the moment. So for any young clients that you have coming through the wealth starters or I guess kids of any clients that you have that are in that wealth start mindset and stage, how are you advising them to think about investing in the stock market at the moment? 

Ben: [00:24:21] Yeah. So I guess where I start is coming down to Why? Why, why are you investing so much to get married? Yeah, well, I had a client call the other day. Oh, it was a sister of a client, and she said, Oh, you know, my brother, who's kind of my. He set up this investment and. And so, like, I think I need to set one up as well. And just because he had done it and I actually saw him doing it and that's probably a good idea. And I sort of started delving into that more around, well, okay, well, what's your current situation? And they were in the process of building their house. And I had, you know, rising interest rates and I had an offset account in the House. And after going through all sort of, I guess, what was important to them, it turned out that, well, maybe just wait until the house is finished, until the dust has settled on that. We know a bit more about you, your income in outgoings at that stage, that which just hold off putting an investment plan together because you've got other issues to focus on now. But I guess if it does turn out that investing is appropriate because ultimately investing is a strategy that's going to help you achieve your longer term goals faster by making your money work harder for you. That's what investing is, right? I guess I sort of run through a step process. I won't go into too much detail, but it's, I guess, defining what entity you're going to be investing in, whether it's your personal name or whether it's a, you know, an investment bond or your partner's name or a family trust. So there are different entities that you can invest in, and that's going to affect the rate of tax that you pay. So that's the first point you're then looking at, I guess, your investment preferences, so active versus passive management, are you looking at an ethical investment portfolio, things like that, platform choice. So what platform are you going to be investing in based and this where they come back to trying to limit transaction costs. So obviously as technology's got better there, there are a lot more platforms out there to use. So just making the right decision. On how much you're going to be investing upfront and ongoing, and then ultimately, what investment instrument are you going to be using? Are we going to be investing into direct shares or ETFs or exchange traded funds or managed funds? So that's a bit of a process that we go through before we actually get to a full is what are we actually doing? 

Alec: [00:26:55] Hmm. One other question that we sometimes get around the wealth start life stage, I guess, before we get onto the next couple. We've mentioned emergency funds a few times. Do you have a rule of thumb about how big they should be? 

Ben: [00:27:15] Yeah. No. So where I begin with that is, okay, well, most people have an idea of what makes them feel comfortable about having a certain amount of money in the bank account at all times. And I got a wide ranging response to that question when I first sit down with my clients and it say that. So the towards a minimum, towards the low points around the $10,000 mark. But some people don't feel comfortable. And I said, I've got three of six months worth of living expenses in the bank account. So I just I think it comes back to what you feel comfortable with. And I guess it also what is your your monthly expenditure? Because if you've got, you know, if you're earning more that your monthly expenditure is higher, then I think you've probably got to have more a higher emergency account as well as a pretty sturdy living at home with mum and dad and you're costs are really low, you might not be earning as much then having a lower buffer is probably going to be okay then. 

Alec: [00:28:13] Your emergency fund is just your mum and dad's emergency fund. 

Bryce: [00:28:17] I think as well, speaking of cost of living and stuff like, it's important to check your emergency account I think regularly to be like, is it actually if I was to like go out of work right now, is it actually enough to sustain. 

Alec: [00:28:32] Or is it still based on two year old Bryce?

Bryce: [00:28:34] Exactly. Yeah. Is it still based on when my didn't have an increase in rent and all those sorts of things? So I think it's important. All right. So the next one is wealth accumulated. So I've set up my emergency fund, I've got good cash flow. I'm comfortable with the foundations now. I mean, that stage of life where I'm trying to really start it, get the wheels turning and building wealth. Who do you define as the wealth accumulate? And at this point in one's life, what is it important to focus on? 

Ben: [00:29:01] Yeah, so I think wealth accumulate is a that is sort of probably aged between 30 and 55. So it should be really focusing on growing your income. So you should have progressed through your working career a little bit more. And so it's important that you sort of you're looking at opportunities to build your savings and contributions to your wealth creation plan. So yeah, really working on the income side of things, also avoiding lifestyle creep I think is important here. So what that is, is when people generally and more they start spending more. So, you know, treat yourself type of thing. Yeah. Of now any more I can spend more myself. I think that's important that you know I try and still live within your means especially if you sort of if you don't have kids. Once you have kids and fans and you go down to one income, things get yeah, things get a lot tighter and you don't necessarily have the ability to to put as much away. So, you know, if you're single Dink's a single income, no kids or dual income, no kids really focus on sort of making hay whilst the sun shines, as I say, and putting a lot of that surplus income away as opposed to spending it on lifestyle choices at that stage as well. You sort of looking at your estate planning. So something did happen to me. Is the money going to go to? So looking at things like your will when you super debt benefit nominations and having that investment plan in place as well is going to be super important. 

Bryce: [00:30:35] So I'm 32, recently married and I think my mum messaged me recently. It was like, have you sorted? You will. And it's just such a like a thing that you just like, well, you know, we have to do this now. No, I haven't, we haven't, but we feels like it's definitely that getting to that point where, you know, surely those things. 

Alec: [00:30:54] Surely it would just be an equal split between your wife and me. 

Bryce: [00:31:00] He's absolutely nailed it. 

Alec: [00:31:02] So, Ben, speaking of Bryce's life stages, he's in that wealth accumulator stage. He's got married, he's looking for a house, getting frustrated by Sydney property prices and maybe allegedly thinking about having a kid. What are the things he should be doing as currently a dual income? No kids in the household, but maybe soon kids are on the way. How do you set yourself up financially for that? 

Ben: [00:31:28] Yeah. So I guess having that cash flow plan in place and knowing that you're putting. Putting money aside to add to those future goals such as buying. Buying the first house and looking at tax effective sort of opportunities I think you can consider the first time super sized scheme is just one way to to save your first house in a tax effective manner. Now, the scheme is quite complicated, but I won't go into too much more about that. That's one option, I would say. 

Bryce: [00:31:59] As is everything with super, to be honest. So it's unnecessarily complicated. Yeah. Yeah. I do like the comment though, around the lifestyle creep. I think that is one, you know, you can grow your income, but I think we posted a quote on our Instagram the other day from Morgan Housel and it was the most powerful way to grow your money is learning to live with less, since that's one thing you can absolutely control. So if you do get that pay rise, yeah, it's the more you can bank that pay rise, obviously the better off you are long term. 

Ben: [00:32:32] Yeah, I especially I'm in the west here, we have a lot of sort of mining and FIFO workers who are on extremely inflated income. Obviously work hard that they're on big incomes, but you sit down and they've been working in the in the mining sector for ten years and they've really got nothing to show for it because I mean very categorise into one one there. But it is a common thing where they, they don't know how to control their expenditure, that's not earning more and they spend it so they don't keep any of it. 

Alec: [00:33:03] So let's move to I guess the final stage or the final two stages of life, which is wealth transition, is getting ready for retirement and then actually being retired. So how do we think about money and about growing or I guess spending wealth at this stage and what matters? 

Ben: [00:33:26] Yeah. So I think when you sort of you coming up to that that retirement is really one is is knowing what it costs you to live again. So it's the common theme around, you know, cash flow. But when we work with sort of pre-retirees those within five years of retiring, it's knowing what it's going to cost them to live because then we can sort of we can use modelling and projections to work out, okay, well, if you were to retire at this age and stop earning any money and you're relying on your assets to sort of support you through to at retirement, obviously if you're spending $120,000, it costs $120,000 a year to live versus $60,000 to live. You know, you're going to have a have to have a lot more capital there to to support you through through retirement or are you going to have to work longer? So really knowing what it costs you to live, also how your your sort of your current assets are invested because you don't want sort of, I guess, sequencing risks, which is, I guess a risk where you're coming up to retirement. And then we have another sort of market downturn, global financial crisis, and you're still heavily invested in growth assets that then take a massive hit and you're forced to start selling down some of those assets to live on once you've retired. And that's where you sort of crystallising some major capital losses as well. So knowing you sort of I guess your overall asset allocation and investment risks is important at that stage. Minimising tax. So you say that. So it's not the easiest thing to understand, but it becomes even more complicated as you get into retirement looking at things like account based pensions and structuring your assets for Centrelink in the future, if it's sort of applicable to you. So probably saving financial advice at that stage is super important because there's so much, I guess, that you can you can do at that stage to maximise your position record. 

Bryce: [00:35:28] Nice. Ben. We've reached the end of all the questions that have come through from the community and some great pieces of advice in there. I think a lot of a lot that are applicable given what we're all sort of facing at the moment with increases in rent, interest rates, like we're all certainly, you know, trying to stay ahead and make sure that our cash flow plan is is right for the time. So we very much appreciate you taking the time to speak with us today. And just a reminder for the equity mates community, if you would like to ask a question for our next adviser, you can hit us up at ask@equitymates.com. Similarly, I will add in the link to the blog posts that Ben has written in a bit more detail around the different stages of life and how to set up for financial wellbeing. But Ben, is there any way that our audience can go to get in contact with you if they'd like more information or to set up a session with Wealth Health?

Ben: [00:36:21] Firstly, thanks for having me again. And then it's just www.wealthhealthcode.com.au. That is our website. There's a sort of a an enquiry box on there that they can send an inquiry through to reach out if that's something they want to do. 

Bryce: [00:36:37] Great. Well, we really appreciate it, Ben. As we said it in our intro. You know, it's we we like being able to connect our audience with advisors from around Australia because it's, you know, it's important to be able to hear from the experts in times like this. So thank you very much to.