How to Build Wealth While Paying Off Debt

Bryce: [00:01:07] Welcome to Get Started Investing feed. In this podcast, we cover all the basics that you need to start your investing journey. We unpack all the jargon, the confusing bits here, your investing stories, all with the goal of making investing less intimidating. And we want to have a good time along the way. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined where I'm joined by my Equity Mates Ren. [00:01:30][22.6]

Alec: [00:01:30] Who else is in the studio? [00:01:30][0.5]

Bryce: [00:01:31] Yeah, good question. I'm feeling some spirits today [00:01:33][2.5]

Bryce: [00:01:35] the investing Gods. [00:01:36][0.5]

Alec: [00:01:36] I reckon you've been feeling some spirits last night, if I'm honest. [00:01:39][2.8]

Bryce: [00:01:40] That was you. But anyway, look, here we are. Get Started Investing feed Ren. We cover, as we said in the intro, all the fundamentals. And today we're going to be discussing the topic that I'm sure many investors face when they kick off their journey. And that is the dilemma between I've got a bit of debt, should I still be investing or can I invest while in debt? [00:02:04][23.9]

Alec: [00:02:04] debt, investing while in debt. Not to be confused with investing in debt because that's a whole other conversation. [00:02:11][7.1]

Bryce: [00:02:12] Yes, investing while in debt. And we're going to walk through some of the basics that you can consider if you are in this position. [00:02:20][7.8]

Bryce: [00:04:38] Investing while in debt. Look, there's no doubt that everyone has many financial commitments going on. You might be repaying a house. You know, you may be saving for a holiday, you may be at university. Whatever it may be, [00:04:51][13.2]

Alec: [00:04:52] you're in a lot of debt to a loan shark for your gambling. [00:04:54][2.5]

Bryce: [00:04:55] That is not a big debt. That is not true at all. The common question, though, that we get out of it is, can I invest while I'm in debt and how should I be thinking about it? And for us, the good news is more at a very high level, the answer is yes [00:05:11][15.9]

Alec: [00:05:12] at a very high level. And that's done so well. I think the answer is yes with an asterisk. Yeah. So, uh, um, investing is incredibly important and even just starting small can pay big dividends pun intended over the long term. But there are some, I think, important concepts and then some rules of thumb that we have applied to our. Personal investing journey, but we should say at the top and we'll probably repeat it throughout the episode, everyone's circumstances are different. These are purely concepts and rules of thumb that we've picked up, that we've heard, you know, personal finance experts talk about. And so if you want advice specific for your personal circumstances, you should seek personal financial advice. You should speak to a licenced financial professional if you do want to find a financial professional near you. On our disclaimer page of our website, we link to a bunch of resources where you can put your postcode in and find licenced financial advisors near you, like the ASIC website, money, smart website, stuff like that. So we'll say that at the top will probably echo it throughout this episode. But this is all general and things that we've learnt and things that we apply. And the best thing you can do if you have a particular financial situation or you want someone to look at your personal circumstances is actually get that advice. [00:06:43][90.5]

Bryce: [00:06:43] Yeah, yeah. So let's start at the top. The conundrum between paying off debt or investing some of that cash that is coming through the door. And for us, it all starts with understanding what type of debt you have and then also the effect of interest rates. [00:07:02][18.8]

Alec: [00:07:03] That's where it starts for me. But let's start with you started. Yeah. [00:07:05][2.2]

Bryce: [00:07:05] So there are two ways you can categorise debt. There's good debt and there's bad debt. [00:07:11][5.5]

Alec: [00:07:12] Can good debt become bad debt and can bad debt become good debt? [00:07:15][3.1]

Bryce: [00:07:16] Uh, potentially, yes. Let's let's look down the definitions. We'll go through a couple here. So. So for me, there are a couple of ways to look at it. Let's start with good debt. And one way that you could categorise the debt you have is that good debt is used to help you build wealth and to improve your income. So if you think about borrowing money to buy a house, borrowing money to invest in shares, borrowing money to put into an asset that is going to generate returns, generate cash flow, that over the long term is debt that you could perceive as as good debt as it's putting you in a position to to build your wealth. Or conversely, bad debt is debt that goes or does very little to actually building your wealth and improving your financial position. And that's often known as consumer debt. And it's a debt that, you know, if you were to categorise credit cards, personal loans, debt that you're using to fund, here you go. Ren going to make a joke. [00:08:17][61.3]

Alec: [00:08:18] No, no. I was going to say buy now. [00:08:20][1.7]

Bryce: [00:08:20] Pay later. Buy now. Pay later is as a consumer debt and very seldom used. In fact, I couldn't think of an example where you would use that to build wealth. And so [00:08:30][10.0]

Alec: [00:08:30] until we launch my buy now, pay later for stocks, [00:08:33][2.6]

Bryce: [00:08:33] until you find out later. [00:08:35][1.2]

Alec: [00:08:35] So Equity Mates pay listing on the ASX. Twenty twenty two. Yeah. [00:08:38][3.4]

Bryce: [00:08:39] So yeah. To qualitative ways to look at it. One is used to build wealth, good debt, one is used to I guess satisfy your wants here and now and consumer debt. And that's often considered bad debt. [00:08:52][13.3]

Alec: [00:08:53] So you said that's the qualitative way to think about it. I think from a quantitative perspective you could say that good debt is debt where the expected financial outcome is greater than the cost to service the debt. [00:09:10][17.1]

Bryce: [00:09:11] Explain that. Like I'm five. [00:09:12][1.0]

Alec: [00:09:13] Okay. Um, so, you know, if if you take out twenty thousand dollars and you're going to pay another five thousand dollars interest on top of that over the life of the loan. So twenty five thousand dollars cost and you expect that what you take that debt out for, you're going to have a million dollars in. At the end of the life of the loan, then that's good debt because your expected outcome is higher than the cost of the debt. But if you take out a twenty thousand dollar debt, you pay five thousand dollars interest on top of that and you end up with a pair of shoes and a TV then and the I guess to to be fully, you know, to talk about fully the cost of the the resale cost of the sneakers. And the TV is less than that. Then your outcome is worse. [00:10:09][56.2]

Bryce: [00:10:10] Yes. That is the [00:10:11][0.8]

Alec: [00:10:13] was that was that [00:10:13][0.6]

Bryce: [00:10:14] clear enough. That was clear. And was that let's get [00:10:16][2.5]

Alec: [00:10:16] into it quite like and explain like I'm five. [00:10:18][1.6]

Bryce: [00:10:18] Let's get it, get it to some clear examples. I think understanding what is good debt and what is bad debt will help you to prioritise whether or not you should be paying off the debt or investing. If you use your example of the shoes, for example, you're not going to take out a twenty thousand dollar loan and then leave that to one side and start pouring money into the stock market. You want to get rid of that 20000 thousand dollar loan for the sneakers that you've bought because the expected outcome of that twenty thousand dollar loan is not going to be greater. [00:10:52][33.8]

Alec: [00:10:53] Yeah, I think I think the concept of good debt and bad debt is kind of helpful, but doesn't really go to answering the question that we want to answer, because, you know, you might be in bad debt and it still might be the right decision to invest. And similarly, you might be in good debt and it might be the right decision to pay that debt off quickly rather than use any excess money to invest. [00:11:14][21.1]

Bryce: [00:11:14] And that is because of the impact of interest rates. And this is where I guess the maths side of things need to come in and don't be bamboozled or scared off by the terminology maths, because it's very easy to not [00:11:27][12.6]

Alec: [00:11:27] be confused with Bryce favourite TV show, maths. [00:11:30][2.6]

Bryce: [00:11:32] Not true. So look, paying down debt versus investing, it does come down to interest rates and trends. Earlier point the expected return of the debt that you have. So let's let's take a little example. [00:11:47][14.4]

Alec: [00:11:47] Can we can we start with, like, a super simple one that isn't related to investing? If you have a credit card that has 20 percent interest, you're not going to save that money in the bank and get two percent interest? No, like, conceptually, most people will get that that like if they've got credit card debt and they've got extra money, they shouldn't just sit it in the bank. They should pay that credit card off. [00:12:12][24.6]

Bryce: [00:12:12] And if if people don't understand that, why? [00:12:15][3.0]

Alec: [00:12:16] Um, because the money that you owe grows at 20 percent a month and the money that you a year, 10 percent a year, 30 percent a year, and the money that you save grows at two percent a year. So that means every year you're actually [00:12:36][19.7]

Bryce: [00:12:36] worse off in [00:12:37][0.9]

Alec: [00:12:37] the hole. Yeah. You're further in the hole that you're in [00:12:40][2.7]

Bryce: [00:12:40] more debt by delaying the paying off of the credit card. Even I can understand psychologically having the 5000 in the bank account may feel like it's a better option than putting it all onto the credit card. Totally understand that. But if you look at where you'll end up at the end of each year, you're actually going to be in a worse off position. Yeah. So then if we do apply it to investing, okay, so you have five thousand dollars, you have a credit card with 20 percent interest on it, then you might have the opportunity to invest that five thousand dollars into the stock market. Let's just take the average return of the stock market over the last 40 years or so, and that is roughly 11 percent. So you could put your money into the stock market and get an 11 percent return at the end of the year. What's that? Five hundred and fifty bucks or thereabouts. Or you could put it into the credit card and and pay that off. How do you decide? And it comes down to the interest rate. Your credit card is 20 percent that you owe each year. You can make 11 percent on your 5000 dollars at the end of the year. Given that you owe 20 percent or could be earning 11 percent, you're still in the hole nine percent at the end of the year. [00:14:02][82.2]

Alec: [00:14:03] Can we put real numbers to that? So the five grand that you saved, you said 11 percent return if you invested it. So that means five hundred and fifty dollars is eleven percent to your pocket. And so that means at the end of the year, you're left with five thousand five hundred and fifty dollars. Yes. Or if the let's say you have five thousand dollars in credit card debt, 20 percent interest rate 20 percent or five thousand is a thousand. Yeah. Which is six thousand. Dollars, so if you paid off the debt, the credit card debt, you're avoiding being in the hole six thousand dollars. Yeah, if you invested it you would be up five hundred and five thousand five hundred and fifty, but you would be in six thousand. Exactly. So four hundred and fifty dollars worse off. [00:14:57][53.9]

Bryce: [00:14:58] Yeah. So sure you could invest that. But at the end of the year to your point Ren you're actually four hundred and fifty dollars worse off than if you just paid off that credit card, avoided the 20 percent or a thousand dollars that you'd have to pay in interest and then start your investing journey once you've paid that off. Yeah. [00:15:14][16.6]

Alec: [00:15:15] So that's an example of where the interest rate on the debt is worse. What about if we're talking about Australia? We have is it Hecks not help now say help, which is like the government covers our costs to go to uni. What's the help of the fee? Help is the cost of inflation is it's like roughly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's call it let's call it one percent if my my help. That is one person charging me one percent interest a year. What do I think. Like how do I think about that. [00:15:48][32.7]

Bryce: [00:15:48] Well this is the opposite to what we just spoke about. So it's going to cost you one percent to service your your help loan or your hexogen, your student loan. Then if you look at well, what are the alternatives to invest your money? And let's take the 11 percent example again. You can put your money into the stock market and earn an 11 percent return. So at the end of the year, yes, you've been servicing your debt and it's costing you one percent to service that debt. But at the same time, you're earning 11 percent. So you're actually 10 percent up on where you were at the start of the year. So that's a situation where the interest rate on your debt is lower than the return that you would expect on your investment, in which case you can actually service it and still afford to have some money in the market. [00:16:40][52.0]

Alec: [00:16:41] So the long and the short of that is like don't get your own personal advice. But our perspective is it doesn't really make sense to pay off your help early. [00:16:51][9.7]

Bryce: [00:16:52] Yeah, it doesn't, because if you're able to earn more by still paying it off and investing in the market, then you are actually better off in the long run. [00:17:01][8.6]

Alec: [00:17:01] Yeah. Yeah. So, um, what about mortgages? Because mortgages are probably the most common type of debt for people in the Equity Mates community. Bryce and I, neither of us have entered the property market. So must be nice for all of you out there living in a house that you own and not paying landlords. How do I think about investing while I have a mortgage? [00:17:24][22.7]

Bryce: [00:17:25] This is purely personal opinion, of course, and as you said, a [00:17:28][3.2]

Alec: [00:17:28] personal and uneducated opinion because we haven't lived it. [00:17:32][3.5]

Bryce: [00:17:32] Yeah, I don't I don't have a mortgage. But there's I mean, there are two arguments to be made for this. And the first is that, you know, with the size of debt that you have with a mortgage, you could argue that you want to pay that down as fast as possible. And that is the approach that a lot of people take. The other part of the argument is that you have a loan that may be principal and interest with, I guess, fixed repayments over a long period of time that services the requirements of that debt, in which case, if you're able to service that debt and then you have a bit of spare cash as well, then there's no reason why you can't go and invest that cash if you think it's going to be better off in the market than putting it towards your mortgage. Yeah, I think that's still the key. Interest rates are still a key factor in that scenario. [00:18:21][49.3]

Alec: [00:18:22] Yeah, and the only caveat to that, and I haven't done enough research on them, but, um, to offset accounts come into play here, [00:18:31][9.2]

Bryce: [00:18:31] offset accounts where you put your money into a cash account that offsets the interest. Yes. [00:18:38][6.4]

Alec: [00:18:38] On the loan. So I guess like that, that can reduce the interest rate and you've got to factor that in. Like is it does it make more sense to put money into the market and pay a higher interest rate on your mortgage or put that money into an offset account, I guess, or actually pay the mortgage off and reduce the interest rate? [00:18:57][18.6]

Bryce: [00:18:57] Again, I think it would just come down to comparing like for like your returns. Yeah. On both. Yeah. Yeah. [00:19:05][7.6]

Alec: [00:19:06] Cool. All right. Well, let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors and then let's talk about how we attack this conundrum because we're both in debt due to loan sharks made at a bank, you know, and so let's let's hear from our sponsors and then have a chat about that Ren. [00:19:25][18.9]

Bryce: [00:19:25] You are all about getting fit. You've bought the Garmin, you bought the golf membership, you bought the gym membership, and you're on the my MasterChef. And even in. Locked down last year, you bought those resistance bands of Instagram that from memory didn't even come? [00:19:39][13.5]

Alec: [00:19:40] No, look, they didn't come, but all of that effort really was cancelled out by the numerous menu log orders that were a real staple of my lockdown experience. [00:19:49][9.5]

Alec: [00:20:38] OK, so we've talked about, I guess, good debt and bad debt, we've talked about the idea of interest rates on debt and the expected return in the market and looking at those two things and comparing them being the key, key decision point, I guess the key factor that we would consider when making when trying to answer the question, should I invest while in debt? The long and the short of it is not all that is the same. So interest rates really matter. What are some of the other things that we think about when we're trying to answer this question? [00:21:12][34.6]

Bryce: [00:21:14] Yeah, I think for me, it's just not getting too caught up in it and if if. If you feel like that, you want to just pay off your credit card and you don't want to worry about comparing interest rates and you're just going to feel a lot better, and you hate the burden of carrying debt and you just don't like it being on there. You just want to get rid of it. Fine. There's nothing wrong with that. Just do what feels right. I think in that situation, you know, for some people, there's nothing worse than carrying credit card debt. And they'd rather use all their cash to get rid of that. And then think about investing, rip up the credit card, find that that's perfectly all right. [00:21:52][38.0]

Alec: [00:21:53] And I think regardless of how much debt you're in, rip up the credit card. [00:21:56][3.5]

Bryce: [00:21:56] Yeah, of course. Yeah. [00:21:57][0.9]

Alec: [00:21:58] Like who's paying 20 percent interest on anything these days? [00:22:00][2.3]

Bryce: [00:22:00] Yeah, it's really silly. Silly. So for me, I do what feels right. I think if you don't want to worry about everything we've just spoken about and you do want to get over that psychological barrier of getting out of debt, fine. That that's that's all good. [00:22:13][13.0]

Alec: [00:22:14] What about you? Yeah, I think I am psychologically. I'm okay with debt. I tore up my credit card a few years ago and I've never looked back. I don't have any like by now pay later or anything like that. The only debt I have is a equity build a loan with Knab and that's debt that has a lower interest rate than the expected return I expect to get from the fund that I've used that money to invest in. And so I just through minimum repayments, take that away and hope that that all works out. Um, but I think if I was in, like, serious credit card debt, I would be attacking that first for both the interest rate reasons, but also the psychological reason. Like, it sucks saying that, Blow-Out. So I think that's an important thing. I think the other thing is, um, there's you know, if you have a lot of debts, it can sometimes be a really difficult thing on like how do I get started? And I mean, there's a mathematical way to approach it and then a psychological way to approach it. I guess the mathematical way to approach it would be if I have three different debts with different interest rates, you try and clear the one with the highest interest rate. First, from a mathematical perspective, that makes the most sense from a psychological perspective. You know, Dave Ramsey, the host in the US, he he advocates or at least he did at one point, that sometimes it makes more sense just to clear the easiest at first. And it might not be the highest interest rate, but if it's a small step and it helps you feel like you're on the right track psychologically, um, he's like, well, try and just clear something. Take a step in the right direction. I think you can also like you can definitely like consolidate and refinance debt. I have no. Understanding of how that industry works and have no recommendations, but that's something you can speak to a financial adviser about, but yeah, like it sucks, it sucks to be in debt. And oftentimes it can think it can feel like investing is the first furthest thing from your grasp while you're in debt. And so I think there are probably two ways to approach it. But the other thing is, and I don't know what you think about this is in the same way that Dave Ramsey talks about just clearing something and like helping you psychologically, helping you feel like you're on the right path. You know, if you wanted to really focus on paying down your debts, but you want it to feel like you were investing and you want it to feel like you were taken a step, maybe a micro investing app like Rise is is something or, you know, spaceship or Comsec pocket, like whatever you decide is the right one for you, because then it's you know, you can still be allocating 95 percent of your excess cash to paying down your debt, but you can at least feel like you've started your investing journey. This is this doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing from a mathematical perspective. It might make sense to just put 100 percent towards paying down the debt. But from a psychological perspective, I think we have both lived the experience of actually starting investing and how motivating that can feel. And I guess how empowering it can feel to like take control of your finance and so that for the psychological reasons, that might be the right choice for someone. [00:25:46][211.8]

Bryce: [00:25:46] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, I wouldn't disagree with that at all. So look, I think the key message and we've touched on it as well, is we can't we can't go past saying that you need to build that credit card, get rid of them. They're not going to help you build wealth. They probably even going to slow down the process of you doing so. I mean, if you did want one, I think the key things to remember, to always try and pay it off in full so that you're not paying that 20 percent and [00:26:14][27.8]

Alec: [00:26:15] people always say like. But the point but the point is and it's like, yeah, the point the points are good, but you got to be super disciplined. You've got to have Bryce Leskie level discipline to to do that. Right. Because it's so easy to miss a payment or it's so easy to overspend and then not be able to pay. And then you're in the cycle. Yeah. And then you're done. You've got monthly interest charges and it adds up quickly and then you're behind the eight ball. Yeah. And I went like I had a credit card and I definitely realised that I didn't have Bryce leskie level discipline. I didn't have 14 spreadsheets to track what I was doing. And so I just decided it wasn't like it wasn't right for me to to just even risk it. So I got rid of it. [00:26:57][42.3]

Bryce: [00:26:57] Yeah, well, that's the best thing. I've never looked back. Yeah. Yeah. Because that even teaches you how to manage your own cash flow anyway if you're not relying on credit card. So get rid of it. And also I think caution with buy now. Pay later. Well that seems an easy option. And you're not paying the interest. You are still at the end of the day forward paying something that you obviously don't want to be paying for now or can't afford to be paying for now. And I guess pushing kicking that can down the road can inevitably lead to you slowing down your ability to grow wealth. So just consider what you're doing with those sorts of things as well. [00:27:30][33.5]

Alec: [00:27:31] Yeah. Yeah. So if you're not in debt, think about good debt and bad debt. If you are in debt, think about the the relative interest rates and then also the psychological side of it. Get rid of the credit card, whoever you are. And if you need if you want to get some advice about your personal circumstances, speak to a licenced financial professional. I think the key takeaways. So we can move on to listener mailbag. [00:27:56][25.2]

Bryce: [00:27:57] Yes, we do have a question here from Isaac. So we do encourage anyone to send in their questions via our Equity Mates dot com folks contact form. You can either leave it via a voice message or hit us up via email. But here's a question from Isaac. [00:28:13][15.8]

Speaker 4: [00:28:14] How are you guys? My name is Isaac. I'm very, very recently out of my investment journey. I just wanted to give you guys a shout out saying thank you so much for creating a platform and a community, as well as, in your words, literally breaking down the jargon of getting into starting your investment and making it a little more accessible to the everyday person. Look. My question is, when your very first starting at your investing journey, what are the pros and cons in regards to I'm putting it in, say, five hundred dollars for not so around about a thousand dollars a month. Very simple strategy you guys kind of recommend. Should I be splitting that five hundred dollars a month into, say, the ten ETF slash stocks that I've chosen because kind of already worked out what it these investments. Should I be splitting it amongst all of those or should I be kind of sticking to one or two or three months one and then splitting amongst others later? What's kind of your strategies in regards to that was awesome. Thanks, guys. Joe. [00:29:27][72.7]

Alec: [00:29:28] So I think, first of all, thanks for the question, Isaac, and thanks for the shout out. We should clarify that we don't recommend. [00:29:36][7.5]

Bryce: [00:29:37] Well, yes, sure. [00:29:37][0.8]

Alec: [00:29:39] We yeah. Yeah. Like, we have our own personal thoughts. But yeah, obviously everything is here for general educational purposes only. I, you know, follow a very similar strategy to Isaac. I try and save a bit on every paycheque. I transferred into my brokerage account straight away and then I have a I guess like I've been calling it, like a permanent portfolio of some ETFs and then some stocks that I want to average into over the next however many years. I think you probably do the same. Yeah. So I guess the first question is you obviously aren't being you know, let's say you have 10 like Isaac. You obviously don't have, you know, ten grand a month to put a thousand dollars into age. So how are you approaching how are you approaching that splitting? [00:30:31][52.1]

Bryce: [00:30:34] I pretty much just go down the list. You know, theoretically, you want to be avoiding trying to pick and choose. That's the whole idea of this. And you want to be putting money in consistently and the same amount as often as is appropriate for your situation. And picking and choosing kind of defeats the purpose of the theory. And so I yeah, just go down the list. If I bought three ETFs this month, then I'll buy the three ETFs that I didn't buy the next month and I'll rotate back to those three and then keep that process. So you are putting the same amount in at a consistent over consistent period of time? [00:31:14][40.1]

Alec: [00:31:15] Yeah, I think to add some more specificity. Is that the word. Yes, sounds right. A specific to that. I if I had a thousand dollars like Isaac and I had ten things, I wouldn't be putting 100 hundred dollars into HMV. And the reason for that is the cost of brokerage. Let's say that you're with CommSec and you're putting 100 bucks in doubt. You could even put a hundred bucks in, but they would be charging you. Let's listen to ground. They'd be charging you ten bucks on each of those trades. And so that's for every hundred dollars you want to put it in. That's ten bucks. That's ten percent of the money. And so that's not an efficient way to spend your money. CommSec or whoever the broker is, is making way too much for you to access the market. That way, our rule of thumb is one percent and it's just a general rule, but it's just something that we sort of think about as a good way to keep your cost of brokerage low. So, you know, if you're with Comsec, that's a and they're charging the ten bucks, it's a thousand dollars. Or if you with IJI and it's eight bucks a trade, then you're talking about eight hundred bucks. And for me, that's my personal rule of thumb. It's obviously not right for everybody. But so I would sort of say I would invest in sort of like eight hundred dollar lots with AIG and I would just go down the list. If you with someone like superhero, where there's zero cost on ETFs, then then it's sort of a bit more of a to do what feels right. I don't know, the superhero have a minimum. [00:32:44][89.4]

Bryce: [00:32:45] It's it is much more in the range of the sub 100, I'm pretty sure. OK, I need to do your own research on that. But yeah, it's definitely not the 500. Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:54][8.8]

Alec: [00:32:54] So like and then this comes to a broader question about like if you Isaac and you like, I have 10 things I want to put my money into over a thousand bucks, then maybe it's a question of what broker are you with and is it the right broker. Like maybe someone like steak. If you want to invest in the U.S., there's no brokerage. There's obviously the currency conversion fee. So I guess I different brokers suit different strategies. But I think as a general rule, dollar cost averaging, you don't have to hit everything every month. Yeah, it's about consistency. And, you know, Bryce with your strategy, you might hit. An ETF like once a quarter. Yeah, but if you're consistent with that like that, that's the [00:33:30][36.2]

Bryce: [00:33:31] consistency, consistency to other points. Check out Re's I'm pretty sure they've just opened a portfolio where you can create a portfolio of a number of ETFs and then it will distribute your money across all of them. That's not so. You go and check out that. But also, I would suggest I know it's easy to get carried away with the amount of ETFs that are out there. If you have 10 ETFs, [00:33:53][22.0]

Alec: [00:33:54] I think a bit of time. I thought that as well. I think he said, as I said, stocks and ETFs. But I agree with what you're about to say. If you've got 10, if you've got [00:34:02][7.3]

Bryce: [00:34:02] 10 ETFs, take a little bit of time to actually understand what all of those ETFs are invested in. It's highly likely, highly likely you'll find that the top holdings of a number of them are very similar. So you may be able to do a consolidation of ETFs down to maybe five or six, so that rather than investing in 10, you're still getting similar exposure and you can build up more of a portfolio in, I guess, more specific ETFs. And then once you've done that, start expanding out. But you don't get Covid [00:34:31][29.0]

Alec: [00:34:31] and like to be very specific. What what you mean by that is if you owned and MSCI All World Index, an S&P 500 index and NASDAQ 100 index and tech giants fanatic ETF, the top holdings in all of those four ETFs would be the same would be Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and, you know, those those companies. And so it's like, why would you need to pay for four ETFs, pay for such a brokerage, manage for dollar cost averaging, manage four holdings, all that stuff when you when you can get exposure just through one. So, yeah, I think that's good. Good advice. Well good thought Bryce thought process. [00:35:16][45.4]

Bryce: [00:35:18] Well that brings us to the end of our Get Started Investing feed today. Hopefully you've been able to take some something out of that that will help you on your investing journey. For more information on all of that, head to our website or you can email us at contact@equitymates.com. Don't forget that we have plenty of other podcasts in our network as well. So, again, go and check out Equity Mates website and you can get a view of everything that is happening in the Equity Mates community. And if you're not already jump into the Facebook discussion group, there's plenty going on there that will help you unpack where you are on your investing journey. But Ren. [00:35:53][34.5]

Alec: [00:35:54] Well, you said we got a lot of podcasts. You're in good company launch last week. If you've listened to it, if you've enjoyed it, or if you just enjoy what we do on the other shows, if you enjoy us rabbiting on, if you enjoy commuting, The Economist, if you're enjoying meat pie love, it would be greatly appreciated if you could write and review. I mean, ideally all five five five five star ratings. Twenty five stars for Equity Mates. That would be great. It actually every podcast says it, there's a reason they say it, it actually really does help. So you know we produce this content for free. All we ask is twenty five stars. That's an Apple podcast. That's appreciate it. Thank you. [00:36:31][37.7]

Bryce: [00:36:32] But we'll leave it there and pick it up next week. Thanks. [00:36:34][2.0]

Speaker 3: [00:36:36] Get Started Investing feed is a product of Equity Mates media. All information in this podcast is for education and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended as a substitute for professional finance, legal or tax advice. The hosts of Get Started Investing feed are not financial professionals and are not aware of your personal financial circumstances. Before making any financial decisions, you should read the product disclosure statement and if necessary, consult a licenced financial professional. Do not take financial advice from a podcast. For more information, head to the disclaimer page on Equity Mates website where you can find the ASIC resources and find a registered financial professional near you. In the spirit of reconciliation, Equity Mates media and the hosts of Get Started Investing feed acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connexions to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people today. [00:36:36][0.0]

[1880.2]