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Why can’t you give everyone a million bucks when Jobkeeper ends?

HOSTS Adam & Thomas|24 March, 2021

The massive Jobkeeper program winds up at the end of March, just as the US is mailing out cheques for $1400 to the whole country. Is the end of Jobkeeper the end of the Aussie economy? And why do we spend money on entertainment vouchers for people when you could just send them cold hard cash?

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Adam Keily: [00:00:53] Hello and welcome to comedian versus economist. We demystify the world of money and help you get a handle on the bigger picture. My name is Adam and I'm joined, as always by my little older brother and real-life economist, Thomas. [00:01:05][11.7]

Thomas Keily: [00:01:07] G'day Adam. How are we doing? [00:01:07][0.1]

Adam Keily: [00:01:09] I'm doing very well, thanks. Before we get started, just a reminder that the Listener Survey Equity makes listener survey surveys on. At the moment. You can find a link in the show, notes of this podcast, wherever you're listening to it on iTunes or Spotify, find link there. Fill out the survey. It only takes about 10 minutes or so and you go into the draw to win 500 dollars cash, which is not a bad deal, actually. Why are you there? Do us a favor. Leave a review of the podcast. That'll be nice. leave review on iTunes or Can you leave reviews on Spotify? I don't know. I use it. Use Spotify, [00:01:40][31.8]

Thomas Keily: [00:01:41] I listen, I don't think you can. I've never seen that feature. [00:01:43][2.3]

Adam Keily: [00:01:45] This part went horribly wrong. [00:01:46][1.2]

Adam Keily: [00:01:47] Um, we do it on iTunes. [00:01:50][3.1]

Adam Keily: [00:01:51] Go and log into iTunes. Even if you're listening on Spotify, go to iTunes and then leave a review. But it actually helps us. [00:01:57][6.1]

Thomas Keily: [00:01:57] But don't mention the professionalism. [00:01:58][1.1]

Adam Keily: [00:02:01] Uh, no. It actually helps us when we don't have a Patreon page or anything like that where you can donate money to us. So so next best thing leaves a review. All right. That's probably enough about begging for reviews. [00:02:12][10.7]

Adam Keily: [00:02:15] Thomas, I feel like we're starting the show like this every week, which is great because it means that we're getting lots of listener emails coming through. We have another couple of listener emails that I'd like to start the show with this week. Of course, we need a name for this segment, by the way. It's got to be like Adam Tri's and then Thomas answers or something. But imagine how much catchy, you know. So taking suggestions, by the way, if you want to e-mail us your suggestions for the Adam tries to answer questions segment. Comedian What is it? KVI equity markets, dot com. You can get us an email or head over to the contact page. Equity markets, dot com forward slash c.v. Or you can email us suggestions for the for the segment title or anything else that you'd like us to cover on the show. So before we get started today and we're going to be talking NFTE today, which I'm really excited about, if you don't know what Netzer, you've never heard of them. Stay tuned. You're in for a treat. But Thomas, we've had a couple of e-mails. One was from Sam. Sam enjoys listening to the show on his three hour commute, if you don't mind. Yeah, hour and a half each direction. He's actually got kind of an interesting story we're paying you back and it's shared a bit more with us. So you move back to Australia after him and his partner were living in London, then covid hit and they had to move quite quickly back to Australia and they were kind of arming and arming on whether to come back or not. He said he made the decision to come back to Australia the same day his local council made an order to commandeer the local primary school as a makeshift morgue. So like some sort of scene from Shaun of the Dead or something. I think that's when he went. You know what? I think now that the primary school, the morgue, I might make tracks. [00:03:57][102.6]

Thomas Keily: [00:03:58] Thanks. It's a good indicator that governor picked up a Cockney accent while he was there. Yeah. All right, Gaiser. Oh, uh, the classic indicator. We watch that one closely in economics. Yeah. A good indicator of gold prices actually highly correlated. Are the schools being turned into morgues? [00:04:20][22.1]

Adam Keily: [00:04:24] you know, we shouldn't make jokes. That's some serious, serious stuff. But yeah, like that's kind of just the crazy world that 2020 was was things that you would never, ever think you would see just happening in your local town or your village or wherever you were. Things like schools getting turned into morgues, makeshift malls, no less. Anyway, go back to Melbourne. And he decided as as a lot of people did, that he thought, you know what, why don't we kind of had a little bit rural. He was working from home five days a week. He was lucky enough to get to get a job when he got back. So he was working from home. He thought, why don't we move a bit regional? So I went out about an hour and a half out of Melbourne, but now he's being dragged into the office two days a week, plus some other sort of ad hoc staff he's having to commute. So based on this extensive data that I've compiled here, Thomas, I want to know, is this a reversal that we're seeing here of the trend of moving away and people working from home? Is it a move back to the cities? [00:05:24][59.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:05:24] Is the tide going out again? And it's a good question. I mean, it's been one of the dominant trends of 2020. Is this regional story, particularly for regional property markets like, yeah, they've really benefited from this exodus. When we see in the data like it's we had the biggest outflows from the capital cities in the December quarter ever. So it's. Yeah, huge, huge flows out of the big cities. Into the regional areas, we've seen a lot of economic activity, the credit card spending in the regional areas has gone through the roof. So it's yeah, boom times for the regions, but. Yeah, is it going to last? It's a good question. I mean, it's interesting with the like work from home, there's I've seen two I saw two studies. One study said that 80 percent of employees were very happy with work from home. They really liked it. It was good for their lifestyle. I wanted it to continue. I saw a second survey which said that 80 per cent of employers weren't that happy with work from home and wanted it. We're looking forward to having everyone back in the office. [00:06:32][67.8]

Adam Keily: [00:06:33] I wonder what kind of correlation we could draw between the employers and the employees in that percentage graphs to see whether they were exactly the same employers and employees. [00:06:41][8.1]

Thomas Keily: [00:06:44] Yeah, It is interesting. I mean, like for a decade, the digital revolution launched, we're expecting this sort of whole work from home, you know, a story to escalate and be one of the defining trends. And it just never launched. We never really saw it. We saw some people like myself, digital nomads in a way, like people who were doing freelance work, able to sort of detaching from the kids and head out into the regions. But we didn't see it, people working full-time employment, that that wasn't a phenomenon. And people were waiting for it to happen and it just never happened. And I think the idea was that from an employer's perspective, that they liked that corporate culture. They wanted people, you know, mixing and interfacing and actually showing up and doing work. [00:07:32][47.4]

Adam Keily: [00:07:34] They enjoyed the employers, enjoyed the productivity of office work. [00:07:37][3.2]

Adam Keily: [00:07:40] Yeah, I get it. I mean, I so I went full time working from home and I mean, it's not all it's cracked up to be like. It's kind of a disconnect as well. Like they were tired. I'd go like three weeks without leaving my suburb, you know, because I had no reason to you know, we have I'd work from home. I'd be in the same household all day, all night. I might go down the beach or just around the corner from where I live. I've got surf lifesaving down the road, the kid's schools down the road, like I had no sort of nothing dragging me away into to meeting other people from different areas. And when I say areas, I mean suburbs, like I'm not talking, you know, different cultural backgrounds. [00:08:20][39.7]

Adam Keily: [00:08:24] So, yeah, I think you can it can be quite disconnecting and I've enjoyed going back into the office a bit more now and I reckon it's just going to be about finding a balance. [00:08:31][7.8]

Thomas Keily: [00:08:32] Um, I mean, yeah, I mean I engineered an office for myself like I was working from home for many years, and then yeah, you're a bit lonely and a bit bored. So I set up a coworking space where I am and have a few people to hang out with and work with. And yeah, it it's a more enjoyable thing. [00:08:49][17.3]

Adam Keily: [00:08:50] But I think I think I think I think I think Engineered is probably overselling it, to be honest. You rented a space for tomamto tomatoes. Can I rent this room. [00:09:01][10.9]

Adam Keily: [00:09:01] Yes. Right. Of engineering. [00:09:02][1.1]

Adam Keily: [00:09:03] OK, but I'm an engineer. [00:09:06][2.6]

Thomas Keily: [00:09:09] Nope, but I think I think what we're probably going to see is this hybrid story that Sam's been caught up in where it's yeah. The work from remote working is going stick around and be a thing, but it's still going to need some face time in the office. [00:09:24][14.6]

Adam Keily: [00:09:26] Because what's not happening, what's not happening that I've noticed and again, very limited sample size employers locally within where I live in Adelaide or in Sydney or Melbourne or whatever, they haven't gone well. And now that everyone's working from home, we can hire people from anywhere. We can just have this whole global market of people to do the jobs. They're still. Again, very small sample sizes I'm dealing with here, and it could be completely misinformed as well. We should always remember that. But I haven't I haven't heard at least of companies hiring a lot of overseas work to do these jobs. They're still hiring local people. They're still hiring people from the same city that the company is in that the head office is based in. And even though they might be working five days a week working from home, they like the fact that they're still in the same city and they can still drive into the office. [00:10:14][48.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:10:15] Hmm. Yes. And it's an interesting point. I mean, you've got to wonder how long that. Yeah. Like how long that lasts. Like, maybe at some point they realized, like, oh sure. I can get someone if they're not in the office, I can get someone from anywhere to be doing this job. And it was always the argument against the sort of like the digital outsourcing, people talking about it is it going to be a great thing. And it's like, well, you're going to see sort of this equalization of wage levels. Like I've got a few matzas, graphic designers who sort of went digital when it was sort of great for a while in the early days. But then once then they found themselves competing with graphic designers from all over the world and from low low wage countries where, you know, they found it very hard to compete for dollar. [00:10:58][43.3]

Adam Keily: [00:10:59] where they were. The freelance graphic designers, or were they working for a company where they employed by a company in the area? [00:11:06][6.8]

Thomas Keily: [00:11:06] They went freelance again. I mean, I'm talking of a limited sample here, but they went freelance early in the digital revolution and were living in. And I think once they're competitive, they were able to get a decent income because they had a competitive advantage of a good Internet connection and being able to add good customer relations so they could talk to their clients. And and they sort of think about those advantages have been eroded over the years. [00:11:30][23.5]

Adam Keily: [00:11:31] Hmm. The other interesting point I heard the other day was that a lot of people who are making this tree change, I think, as Sam called it, could find themselves a bit stuck because it's not just the regional areas where the house prices are going up. It's in the cities as well as Sydney and Sydney and Melbourne are booming. House prices are going up like, I don't know, three or four per cent or something a month, which is more [00:11:55][23.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:11:55] like more like two. But yeah, it's [00:11:56][1.3]

Adam Keily: [00:11:56] it's well, let's call it rounded up to five or 10 or 10 percent. [00:12:01][4.5]

Speaker 3: [00:12:01] They've got the [00:12:02][0.7]

Thomas Keily: [00:12:06] the biggest increase in 17 years in Sydney in February, in the month of February. Yes, it's they're off to the races. [00:12:11][4.6]

Adam Keily: [00:12:12] And so so the risk then is that if you make this change out to the regional areas that maybe get priced out of the city markets or the central markets when you try to come back is a risk. [00:12:23][11.6]

Thomas Keily: [00:12:24] Yeah, I think it's got to be I mean, it's going to be I think, you know, Sam's probably testing his threshold for how far out he wants to be like an hour and a half commute each way. That's pretty decent. Yeah, that's hefty. I mean, in Sydney, there's a lot of people doing that on a daily basis and still living within this greater Sydney area. But yeah, but I think, you know, I could imagine there are people who've moved five, six hours from the CBD and if they're getting called back to work when they're their stock, what do they do? Like, fly back a lot? Yeah. And then you're able to move back. If you sold up to move out. It's tricky to move back. If the market has moved in the time you've been away, [00:13:04][40.6]

Adam Keily: [00:13:05] I guess the only saving grace is that you've got outstanding podcast content such as comedian versus economist to listen to on your commute. So people who are commuting these days are just spoiled by just one car, one quality, a bit of banter after another. Their advice is that just listening to the back catalog, the 12-hour drive, the Unrooted on the podcast Ren, when you go to the say they shop and you buy your favorite say, they just play it like over and over and over because you thought it was wonderful. I don't think anyone's doing that with podcasts. Somehow it's the same six podcasts on the repeat car radio, inverted commas, greatest hits for 2020. Remember that time Thomas talked about bond yields. Oh oh oh. Sorry, love what I get trotted out for union tour in 2018. All right. [00:14:06][60.9]

Adam Keily: [00:14:06] So that Samso. Thanks heaps for writing in of course. Yeah. Really love getting hearing from listeners. So we've had people writing in from all over the country and it's really fascinating to um, to get some of that perspective. So I really enjoy it. [00:14:18][12.2]

Thomas Keily: [00:14:18] We had another. [00:14:19][0.3]

Adam Keily: [00:14:20] Oh, this happened before. We had like two listener questions in the same week from people with the same name. It's happened again, another Sam, a different name who writes in saying, love the show. Thank you. Say he's just wondering about NFTE and he's trying to wrap your head around NFTE and wondering if we'd be willing to give him a lowdown. Well, good luck. [00:14:43][23.0]

Thomas Keily: [00:14:43] Good luck. Good luck. Good luck, good luck with that. William Slippered, you're in some sort of luck there because we have poorly researched it. We feel that we have got a rough idea of where they are and what they're about. [00:15:01][18.4]

Adam Keily: [00:15:03] People are paying extraordinarily large sums of money for things that seemingly are not worth a cent. But we're going to tell you all about NFTE non-refundable tokens right after this break. [00:15:12][9.7]

Thomas Keily: [00:15:14] Banking with virgin money has never been more rewarding. Earn rewards on your everyday spending and pay zero monthly fees with the Virgin Money Go transaction account and with points, perks, and epic experiences tailored to you, you can manage your money easily on the go smash your savings goals, get money for it, and be rewarded for it. Bank to your own beat virgin money terms and conditions and monthly criteria apply. Now let's get into the show. And welcome back to comedian versus economist Adam, we're talking non tokens, and just as we had in the start, we had the episode, a little segment. Adam has a crack at economic concepts. They're going to introduce a new segment called Thomas Has a Crack at Technical Concepts. You're the IT guy. So I think the NFTE, this is in your wheelhouse. Hmm. So but I don't know anything about NFTE or the technical details. I thought I could have a crack and then you can correct me if I'm wrong, [00:16:11][56.9]

Adam Keily: [00:16:12] which is also should we should also call this segment. Thomas has a crack at hosting a podcast because this is the first time you're kind of playing the role of host. Yes. So far, six out of ten is full of a high bar. [00:16:25][13.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:16:26] OK, all right. So nonfungible tokens. Yeah. So it's art gathering or anything that can be construed as art, which, uh, that's a pretty low bar to set, but yeah. So art that's digitized. So it has to be digitized. I'm guessing [00:16:44][18.0]

Adam Keily: [00:16:46] you're answering a lot of your own questions so far. You're kind of not so much hosting as much as thinking out loud. No, I'm not hosting. This is me having a crack at the technical one that this is this is Thomas's musings. Well, no, no, I didn't think I thought I would [00:17:07][21.0]

Thomas Keily: [00:17:07] be the host and the interviewee. [00:17:08][0.9]

Adam Keily: [00:17:09] Right. Yeah. [00:17:10][1.3]

Adam Keily: [00:17:11] So these guys weren't listening before the break. This all came from Sam. Sam was talking about wanting to understand and try and wrap his head around NAFTA because NAFTA have been in the news a lot lately. Um, and as you correctly point out, NFTE stands for nonfungible token fungible, I believe is an economic term, isn't it? [00:17:28][17.0]

Thomas Keily: [00:17:29] It is. It is. And this is why I'm one of them I have hoping you clear this up for me. We like we talk about iron ore being fungible in the sense of one bundle of iron ore is very much like another. And you can't really, you know, is always all the same. Yeah. So I'm curious to know how fungible works in the context of this. But let me just finish this. Great. So well, get this right. So it's an art that has been digitized that it can then be stored on a blockchain ledger and have smart contracts attached to it. So like, if it's resold, it gets a certain portion of the sales is that's my basic understanding. So it's combining the financial illiteracy of crypto with the self-indulgent pretentiousness of art and bundling it together. And hey presto, and if and if these [00:18:28][58.8]

Adam Keily: [00:18:30] are to take that, you are equally excited about NFTE as you are about cryptocurrency. [00:18:34][4.4]

Adam Keily: [00:18:36] Thomas, well-known skeptic of cryptocurrency as we record on the 15th of March, uh, twenty twenty one where I think block chain has just its new alter. I'm sorry, bitcoin just hit its new all time high. [00:18:49][12.7]

Adam Keily: [00:18:51] Seventy thousand dollars or something. [00:18:52][1.3]

Adam Keily: [00:18:54] So, look, I'm going to buy some NFTE, you do what you want and we'll see where we all end up. But now you've you had a lot of words there and some of them were quite close to. Right. But if I can break it down a little bit. So NFT is nonrefundable. Tolkan So in this sense, nonfungible basically means that they are just a unique token. So in the same way, as your Bitcoin wallet address is unique, the bitcoin is unique. These tokens are globally unique. They are perpetually unique. They are stored on and this is a really important point. They are stored on a blockchain. They are not stored on the blockchain. There is no block chain where things are stored. There are many different blockchains. You've got many different coins as people would know. You've got Bitcoin, you've got a theorem, you've got REPL, you've got Stella, you've got whatever it is, lots of different coins, not necessarily all running on their own blockchain. It should be, it should be noted as well. But there is no blockchain in this sense. So so a lot of Naftogaz are stored on the theory network and they make use of theorems, as you correctly pointed out, a theory of smart contract capabilities. And so those smart contracts mean that things can be built into the contract itself in terms of how many times it can change and or what kind of percentage, what the cut is of the percentage when that token does change hands. If it's sold, then, you know, it might be five percent goes to the owner, 10 percent goes to some broker, maybe the auction house that sold the MFF to you for some ludicrous amount of money. So in this sense, the non fungible token is just that. It's a token or a smart contract that is stored on a blockchain and is then sold. Now, you mentioned art and art comes into it because. Pieces of art, digital pieces of art, whether that's an image, whether it's a video, whether it's music, whether it's an online insert, another digital piece of artwork here is then. I want to use the word attached to the token, but at the same time, I don't really want to use the word attached because and I'd love for our listeners to correct me if I'm wrong here, because I've done a lot of reading about this. I'm kind of fascinated by these NFTE. And my understanding is that the artwork itself is not stored on the blockchain. It's not stored, it's not decentralized, like the blockchain ledger that we've come to know and love. The artwork itself is stored on a separate server. Now, this is really interesting. Yeah, this is really interesting. So the NFI. Actually just acts as a certificate of authenticity kind of thing, so if you buy the Mona Lisa I'm gone. [00:21:52][178.3]

Adam Keily: [00:21:55] If you buy the Mona Lisa and you get the art, you get the picture of the woman hanging on your wall, and then along with it, you will get something that says, this is Mona Lisa. We're obviously not, in those words Ruby Ridge or something, [00:22:13][18.7]

Adam Keily: [00:22:16] but something to that effect that says you are the owner of the Mona Lisa. This is the original Mona Lisa and you are the owner. And that's the bit that people are now buying. So, oh, [00:22:26][10.7]

Thomas Keily: [00:22:27] no, this can't be right. Surely it's not the the ownership contract yet is the token. Not that not the artwork is not is not embedded. The artwork is not embedded in the token. [00:22:39][12.0]

Adam Keily: [00:22:40] No, it's not. And the token is not embedded in the artwork. [00:22:43][3.0]

Thomas Keily: [00:22:46] Oh, my God. [00:22:46][0.5]

Adam Keily: [00:22:47] Because if it was, it would cease being fungible, right? So if you think about a file on your computer, you can't copy that file from one place to another. Without duplicating its contents, so you can't copy the file and then be like, I mean, unless you design some new file transfer platform, you can't move that file from one place to another and not take with it or create a copy of the token, in which case the token then is kind of funny. So that's my understanding, and again, I'm not an expert, but that's my belief is that it's just the token and the metadata of the artwork that is stored in the blockchain. In this case, in a lot of cases, it's a theory. But there's a company called DAPA Labs who just quietly pretty keen on in the investment space because they've they probably the biggest player and they're making they're going into the NBA trading card market. So trading cards in the US, massive, obviously still massive. They're really creating the first kind of digital trading cards. So they're taking like little snippets of footage of like NBA players dunking or whatever they're doing. And they're then selling. NFTE for those digital videos and effectively creating kind of digital trading cards, but they're interesting because they're using flow blockchain, which is not. It's probably a theory and based, but it's not like the theory of networkers, I don't I shouldn't I should probably look into that one a bit more. [00:24:31][104.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:24:32] But I said this, that this doesn't help piracy at all. [00:24:36][3.5]

Adam Keily: [00:24:36] No, not at all. [00:24:37][0.6]

Thomas Keily: [00:24:38] Not at all. So. [00:24:39][1.0]

Adam Keily: [00:24:39] So the big story in the news this week, the big one was this was people. And he's the first five thousand days painting. It's sold at auction a Christie's auction for 17 million dollars,. [00:24:51][11.1]

Thomas Keily: [00:24:52] 17 million. Right. [00:24:53][1.3]

Adam Keily: [00:24:55] This is the bit of the prize. My brain, 17 million dollars. And there is literally nothing, nothing at all stopping you from getting a copy of that file. Exactly as it is, exactly as that person has it, whoever bought it, exactly as they have it. You can have that file, too, and then you can print it. You can do what you want, put on a digital photo frame. [00:25:20][24.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:25:22] What is it? Create a digital museum. I mean, a gallery. I don't know. Second Life is still around. [00:25:28][5.8]

Thomas Keily: [00:25:31] Well, that's what I wanted to know. So you pay 70 million dollars for digital artwork. Do you have it like projected on a wall in your mansion or something so [00:25:38][7.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:25:43] you want to do something with it now? [00:25:45][2.4]

Adam Keily: [00:25:46] Just owner you just own the thing. And so then so the the creator people. So whenever whoever bought it, when they sell it, he'll get 10 percent. I think it is of the art of this, which is really great for artists. Right. So they're saying it's a really positive thing for artists because each time and NFTE is sold, the artist gets a cut, which is kind of what's not been happening lately, which is music is being pirated and shared and whatever. And no one everyone's missing out. [00:26:15][28.9]

Thomas Keily: [00:26:16] So but this is the big sticking [00:26:19][3.2]

Adam Keily: [00:26:19] point for me, it's not the actual artwork. Which is makes sense because I think I think the theory of network or any any block chain, for that matter, was ever designed to host like large chunks of data because like whatever what people's image was probably like, I don't know, let's say it's 100 meg or something. The block shines not just because you think about the decentralized block chain. It's got to replicate that data all around every node all around the world. Yeah, it's not designed for storing, um, gigabytes of files. It could distribute parts of that file are kind of BitTorrent, but then you run into issues. What if one part of the file goes missing? The guy who hosts the top left corner [00:27:06][46.2]

Adam Keily: [00:27:09] shuts down its server and everyone there is Bittar, you get to like 95 percent complete and you realize that there's a chunk, about two thirds of the way through that's missing and it renders the whole thing unwatchable. [00:27:20][11.5]

Adam Keily: [00:27:24] That's my understanding. I've searched high and low, and I don't believe that the actual content itself is stored anywhere on the blockchain. It's only the metadata about the file. It's really a proof of ownership. Which to your point about the bubble. [00:27:39][15.4]

Thomas Keily: [00:27:40] Absolutely. [00:27:40][0.0]

Adam Keily: [00:27:42] Uh, still alive. And I think that's going to be legitimate use that's come out of it. [00:27:46][3.8]

Adam Keily: [00:27:49] I'm not convinced that forking over 70 million dollars for the first image and it's not the first, [00:27:55][6.3]

Adam Keily: [00:27:56] it's one of many there's a lot of these sales going on. I like the training card. And I think if that takes off and kids that kids start using. [00:28:05][9.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:28:06] But is it is it legally enforceable? So like so it's basically got a statement of ownership. He's paid 70 million dollars and in return they receive a USB stick with the Beatles. [00:28:18][11.9]

Thomas Keily: [00:28:20] Well, I just do as a christi's going, how are we going to give it to I don't know. And they don't go to you as I go on in the world. Let's go to KFC logo. Does that whether. No, it's a promotion or you as I go to the conference. [00:28:38][18.1]

Thomas Keily: [00:28:41] Yeah. So but I guess I guess a USB stick with the with the file for the artwork and alike a key. A token. Yeah. That is what like it has the, the ownership details on it. Like what's on what's [00:28:57][16.3]

Adam Keily: [00:28:58] really it has metadata about the image. So you know, I don't know the color pattern, the file size, the probably the MI five hash or something, but it's kind of it's kind of a moot point anyway because anyone can just copy the file. It's not the only version of the file. Like the creator presumably didn't delete it. Like if you make something in Photoshop, right. You've got the Photoshop file, like what's the extension date or something. You've got to Photoshop file and then you go, oh, I want to post this on Facebook because well, I've made amazing. So I'm going to export and you might save it as a jpeg or gif or something like that. You make this artwork like what's the original. There is the Photoshop while the original is it the jpeg that you made and then posted? Is that the next jpeg that you made and then posted? Is it when you did right. Click save [00:29:47][49.6]

Thomas Keily: [00:29:48] as people [00:29:51][2.9]

Adam Keily: [00:29:51] first 5000 [00:29:52][0.4]

Thomas Keily: [00:29:52] days and go final V 2.0 and let's go back up. Oh, wow, [00:30:04][11.1]

Adam Keily: [00:30:05] yeah, right. So, you know, Aaron's having trouble wrapping his head around it and I don't blame him, but yeah, so that's the best analogy I can come up with is it's a digital certificate of authenticity and a digital certificate of ownership that says you are the true the one true owner of the artwork for people saying stupid, like Jack Dorsey, the founder of Twitter, and like multi gazillion in Saudi's first tweet for some huge sum of money as well. So how does it help you sell a tweet? Maybe could maybe you could embed a tweet in the blog chain? I don't know that. I just don't think it's designed. The blog is not designed for storing that. [00:30:42][37.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:30:42] Yeah, that makes sense. [00:30:44][1.4]

Adam Keily: [00:30:45] And was it a screenshot of the tweet? Was it a [00:30:48][2.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:30:48] I mean, you can literally Google that, right? Like, what was Jack's first tweet? Yeah, I was probably still there. [00:30:55][6.4]

Adam Keily: [00:30:57] But you own it, you don't own it, Thomas. That's the thing, that's the difference. [00:31:00][3.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:31:01] I feel like this is a bit like how you can buy ownership, right? Like the naming rights to stars. [00:31:05][4.6]

Adam Keily: [00:31:06] Yeah, it's a probably. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. [00:31:10][3.4]

Thomas Keily: [00:31:11] You know, as you can like there's somebody that. Yeah. It is like yeah. That star up there that's yours and you've got naming rights on it because there's like just a gazillion stars and we can just dish out whatever [00:31:25][13.9]

Thomas Keily: [00:31:26] we're going to get invited some time by aliens. It's going to be a dispute arose. We'll be explaining life on Earth to aliens. And this is their house and this is where we live and where the kids go to school. I look [00:31:40][13.8]

Adam Keily: [00:31:40] up there, there's my star, [00:31:41][0.8]

Thomas Keily: [00:31:41] and it's going to be like, what? That's where I stop because it's fungible, maybe. [00:31:50][8.7]

Thomas Keily: [00:31:50] So it's like our planets around and now naming rights on it. So. [00:31:56][5.9]

Thomas Keily: [00:31:57] So I don't know. [00:31:58][0.7]

Adam Keily: [00:31:58] That's that's my best effort at explaining NFTE. As I say, happy to be corrected. Send us an email. CVT at equity markets dot com or equity match.com forward slash CBA. I think the best one I've seen so far was, you know, Banksy, the artist Banksy. Yeah. So Banksy is gone some next level. [00:32:20][22.4]

Thomas Keily: [00:32:21] Not so Banksy had, um, [00:32:26][5.8]

Adam Keily: [00:32:27] and this is the same guy that shredded one of his famous artworks, like he sold at auction and then shredded it immediately. So he's no stranger to kind of destroying the artwork. [00:32:37][9.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:32:38] After what art? After he sold it? [00:32:39][1.7]

Adam Keily: [00:32:40] Yeah, he sold it at auction, and then someone came out wearing a hood and shredded it. I think it was a girl withholding a balloon. Oh, yeah. It was some kind of statement about presumably he must have bought it himself and then shredded it just as like a. I don't know some commentary on on the frailty of life or something or how the value of things. Who knows why I did it anyway. He's back. Thanks. He's back. Um, thanks. He's back. All right. Thanks. He's back. And he'd live-streamed a video of him burning. An image that he made of an auction. [00:33:22][42.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:33:23] So he created a picture of an auction. [00:33:25][2.0]

Adam Keily: [00:33:27] He's printed it. That's his artwork. That's the original. Mm hmm. He then set fire to this picture he made of an auction. Then he sold [00:33:37][9.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:33:37] the digital Toca, the NFTE, representing the artwork that he just burned all the way, the artwork or the video of him [00:33:48][10.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:33:48] destroying the artwork. [00:33:49][0.7]

Adam Keily: [00:33:49] Now, the video is forget the videos on YouTube. I mean, oh, yes. Again, coming back to the point that the artwork is not attached to the token, he feels he made the video. There's a guy looks like a ninja, but he's got a he's wearing a Banksy shirt. So he's obviously works for Banksy. [00:34:06][16.9]

Thomas Keily: [00:34:07] And it's not a security camera footage from bases if someone's just broken in and bags these artwork. So the guy the guy [00:34:18][11.3]

Adam Keily: [00:34:19] set fire to the artwork. Then Banksy sells and left a digital token representing the artwork of the auction that he just burned for three hundred ninety thousand [00:34:31][11.9]

Thomas Keily: [00:34:32] on the artwork. The artwork has been the artwork has been destroyed, the [00:34:40][8.0]

Adam Keily: [00:34:40] the island's been destroyed, [00:34:40][0.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:34:41] and someone's paying three hundred and eighty thousand dollars for the ownership certificate. [00:34:45][3.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:34:46] Yeah, and generally it was called this is the funny thing was the artwork was titled Morons, who was this great friend of a Christie's auctioneer [00:35:01][15.5]

Adam Keily: [00:35:02] pointing at a framed painting in a [00:35:03][1.5]

Thomas Keily: [00:35:03] crowded auction room titled Morons. And he's been sold the token nearly 400 K. Is he just I just like how [00:35:15][11.7]

Thomas Keily: [00:35:15] far can I push this? At what point am I a person finally going to realize I'm just taking the piss? [00:35:21][5.7]

Adam Keily: [00:35:22] Oh, I think so. I think he's made his money, although some people are saying Banksy did it because he he needed some money. But I don't know. [00:35:28][6.0]

Thomas Keily: [00:35:29] Must be more to this story. But I trust I trust you. You're Googling. You're an expert at it. [00:35:34][5.0]

Thomas Keily: [00:35:36] I can Google now. [00:35:39][2.8]

Adam Keily: [00:35:39] I was I've been fascinated more so in the technological side of you know you know me. I like my technology. Just didn't I was just keen to understand the sort of really that relationship between the artwork and the token, which I found fascinating. I just I felt like it had to they had to be inextricably linked somehow, but I couldn't work out how. And the more I kind of went down the rabbit hole, the more it become kind of clear that I don't think they are linked again. Then to be corrected, happy to be corrected, because I really want to understand what's going on. But I don't think they're linked. I think you'd get a token and that's all you get. And the artwork is just digital. It's a jpeg, the Aeger around or MPEG three file or a A for file or whatever it is. [00:36:25][45.8]

Thomas Keily: [00:36:26] I think one of the one of the things that's interesting about the crypt, the nomics of like. Like you talk about like Bitcoin being scarce like this in limited supply, and that's what sort of drives its value and. And it's the same argument for gold, like it's a limited supply, and that's why it's a precious metal is not any of it around. And that's what that was made, makes it valuable. But it's all all these things are pretty fluid. Like scarcity can be manufactured is kind of what's happening with these tokens. It's like you're manufacturing scarcity. [00:37:01][35.2]

Thomas Keily: [00:37:02] Yeah, it's exactly what really. [00:37:03][1.0]

Thomas Keily: [00:37:04] Yeah. But it's like it seems pretty ephemeral to ephemeral to me. It's like yeah [00:37:12][7.3]

Adam Keily: [00:37:12] it's exactly what they're doing. The manufacturing scarcity. The thing I don't get is like I get this whole nonrefundable token thing. But in the trading card sense the digital trading card sense, they're talking about being able to mint-like five. Like I thought the whole thing the whole point was that they were unique, but I don't know, maybe they meant five unique tokens that all have the same metadata. [00:37:34][21.7]

Thomas Keily: [00:37:35] Mhm. So there's like those artist prints you can buy with. I do a limited run so it's a print for a photo and in the corner it's like three of sixty or something. So you know you're getting a limited print edition. [00:37:48][12.9]

Adam Keily: [00:37:49] Yep. Who buys those people. [00:37:51][2.3]

Thomas Keily: [00:37:51] People. Do people do a limited print. Print. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah. I mean Mom's got one on a wall that's worth 15 grand which she founded an option. [00:38:03][11.6]

Thomas Keily: [00:38:06] Some really. Yeah. That bird painting [00:38:07][1.6]

Thomas Keily: [00:38:08] looks like I [00:38:09][0.8]

Thomas Keily: [00:38:09] missed my go burn and sell. It isn't enough to early the uh before. I'm not, I'm not going to burn your painting. I'm sorry. Uh, all right. I reckon that that needs we [00:38:28][19.0]

Adam Keily: [00:38:28] need to wrap it up. I think we sort of meandered through that long enough. And if people are still listening anyway. So we appreciate you staying with us. Um, hopefully [00:38:35][7.1]

Thomas Keily: [00:38:36] by the nonfunctional token of this episode. [00:38:38][1.9]

Thomas Keily: [00:38:39] Well, yesterday that we could [00:38:40][1.2]

Thomas Keily: [00:38:41] mean ninety thousand. [00:38:42][1.0]

Adam Keily: [00:38:43] That's a good idea. I'm going to mint because I don't need any money. I'm going to mint an NFTE of this episode. [00:38:52][8.9]

Thomas Keily: [00:38:53] Yeah, great. Can you do that over the next couple of weeks and we'll check-in, see how it went. [00:38:57][3.7]

Thomas Keily: [00:38:58] Auction and I don't know where I'm going to host it yet. We don't we don't even have a dedicated soldier who was paid for this podcast. I'm not sure how we're going to go minting [00:39:08][9.1]

Adam Keily: [00:39:08] it NFTE for one episode, but we're going to give it a go. If if we run into any barriers, such as it costs more than five bucks, then I'm out. I'm not doing it. And then maybe we can auction it up. Well, we'll come back with a link on where we auction them. EBay. Has anyone auctioned off on eBay yet? We could be the first to auction NFTE on eBay, giving away all these good ideas. [00:39:33][24.6]

Thomas Keily: [00:39:33] First podcast, the auction on eBay. Genius. [00:39:36][2.6]

Adam Keily: [00:39:37] That's that's good. I like it. All right. That does not feel free to email us in, clarify anything that we've said. Are we absolutely crazy or. I'm not sure. Thanks for tuning in. equitymates.com/cve or about equitymates.com/cve. Don't forget to go and check out all the other great shows on equity markets, media equity markets, investing podcast Mapei Love get started investing. They're all there. Go and get your eyes around them and we'll talk to you next week. [00:39:37][0.0]

[2158.3]

More About

Meet your hosts

  • Adam

    Adam

    Adam is the funniest and most successful comedian in his family. He broke onto the comedy scene as a RAW comedy national finalist before selling out solo shows at two Adelaide Fringe festivals. He’s performed stand-up to crowds all over Australia as well as enjoying stints on radio with SAFM and most recently as a host of the Ice Bath on Triple M. Father of two and owner of pets, he may finally be an adult… almost.
  • Thomas

    Thomas

    Thomas, the economist, is the brains of the outfit. He studied economics and game-theory at the University of Queensland and cut his teeth as an economist at the Reserve Bank of Australia. He now runs his own economics consultancy, with a particular focus on the property market. He lives with his wife and two kids in the hills outside Byron Bay.

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