Is this the taste of the future of food? – Beyond Meat | Summer Series

Bryce: [00:00:15] Welcome to another episode of the Equity Mates Summer Series over 12 episodes where deep diving into some of the most exciting, interesting and well-known companies from both here in Australia and over in the US. In some instances we'll be hearing directly from the CEOs to give you firsthand insight into their companies. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How are you going?

Alec: [00:00:36] I'm very good, Bryce. Excited for this episode and a little hungry. 

Bryce: [00:00:42] I'm actually starving.

Alec: [00:00:44] And the reason for that is we're talking about a food business today and the last sort of 15 minutes as we've been putting the finishing touches on this episode, I've just been reading the McDonald's news, KFC, Burger King and now all I can think about is what I'm going to have for lunch. 

Bryce: [00:01:03] Well, what's the company? 

Alec: [00:01:04] The company we're talking about today is a supplier to many of those fast food chains and a number of other companies - Beyond Meat. 

Bryce: [00:01:12] Nice. Beyond Meat.

Alec: [00:01:14] We are talking about one of the, I guess, fastest-growing segments of the food supply chain, and that is the meat alternatives, plant-based meat. It has been a market darling for a few years since listing. It's got one big rival. It's trying to convince the world to eat differently, and we're going to Deep Dive on it today. 

Bryce: [00:01:35] We are. The Summer Series is brought to you by Superhero, who allow you to buy Aussie and US shares and ETFs with no monthly account fees. And you can now own Qantas points with Superhero. Visit Superhero.com.au/Qantas to learn more. Eligibility criteria, terms and conditions and fees and charges apply. So we are going to dig into Beyond Meat. We're going to be starting with the problem. Have a look at some of the solutions, what the company does a bit about the industry, financials, future prospects. There's so much to cover with this stock. We're really pumped to get stuck into it. I remember when it IPOd and it absolutely boomed, so it'll be interesting to see where it's at now. But just a reminder that this is an interactive episode that could land you $1000. Superhero giving a lucky listener $1000 into their Superhero wallet to start trading. So all you need to do. Listen to this episode! Listen for one of your favourite facts about this company. Head across to the Equity Mates Instagram page at Equity Mates and on the corresponding post for this episode. Let us know in the comments what your favourite fact about Beyond Meat is from this episode that you didn't know. And then we'll announce a winner on our stories at the end of the week for our for a lucky person who has been able to comment a really interesting fact. You must subscribe to Equity Mates and Superhero to be eligible, but let's get stuck in Ren. Beyond Meat. 

Alec: [00:02:59] So let's start with the problem when we're talking about Beyond Meat, because it's a fascinating category, but I guess we always have to start with why is this a business that exists and why is this an investable opportunity? So from the company and from other plant-based meat advocates, there's four key reasons why this change is needed why this industry should exist. First of all, world hunger. The UN estimate that almost a billion people nine hundred and fifty seven million people do not have enough to eat today. So right now, our global food system leaves a significant portion of the world hungry. Secondly, environmental degradation and there's a number of ways you can look at this. You can look at the amount of agricultural land that goes to making animal feed. You can look at the amount of greenhouse gas and methane that's produced by livestock farming. One estimate is that 18 percent of human-produced greenhouse gases worldwide come from livestock farming. That's not really human-produced. But you know what we mean - human caused. Human health, the amount of diseases and stuff that are not made better by eating meat. Finally, animal welfare, the conditions of factory farming are pretty well covered, we don't need to cover it now, but that's a key reason why people talk about plant-based meat being an industry that needs to exist. So world hunger, environmental degradation, human health, animal welfare, some of the key issues with our current food supply chain that Beyond Meat and its competitors are looking to solve or looking to make better. So big issues and really where that where that leads to is sort of three, I guess choices. Three solutions we could just not eat meat. 

Bryce: [00:04:42] Yes. 

Alec: [00:04:42] That's an option. 

Bryce: [00:04:44] Yeah. 

Alec: [00:04:44] We could find new ways to create meat. And that's sort of lab-grown meat. 

Bryce: [00:04:48] Yeah. 

Alec: [00:04:48] Clean meat. AKA. We'll get to that. And then the third one is we create meat substitutes out of plant meat alternatives. And that's what Beyond Meat, they took that third option. And that's what we're talking about today from 2009, when they were founded to 2019, when they listed, they were working on their products. And really, the last few years, we've seen a massive acceleration in where you can find Beyond Meat. I guess so. Let's get into it. What does this company do. 

Bryce: [00:05:17] Well Ren, Beyond Meat's mission is to facilitate this shift from traditional animal based meat to plant-based meat, so they focus on creating plant-based meats that emulate beef, chicken, meatballs, pork and sausages. Yeah, they're really trying to position themselves in the market to cater for A) the problem that you've spoken to, but B) all the people that are trying to do their best to move away from eating meat but don't want to not eat meat. 

Alec: [00:05:48] From the company will and from a study from the University of Michigan, a Beyond Meat burger patty compared to a traditional burger, made from from a cow, the numbers are pretty impressive, so 99 per cent less water, 93 percent less land, 46 percent less energy compared to a traditional beef patty. So the sustainability credentials are there. 

Bryce: [00:06:13] Yeah.

Alec: [00:06:13] The question, I guess, is the taste. 

Bryce: [00:06:15] And we were planning to do a live taste test. However, I think testament to Beyond Meat, both stores that we went to to buy it. They were sold out. Yeah. So that's a good sign, positive sign, positive sign. 

Alec: [00:06:27] And their competitor products were that were that it was just the Beyond Meat products that was sold out. 

Bryce: [00:06:33] Yeah,. 

Alec: [00:06:34] So take that for what you will. 

Bryce: [00:06:35] And I have heard that there is a quite a distinct range or difference between the good quality Beyond Meat and the not so good quality competitors. But unfortunately, we don't have the ability to taste test, but we've got two pretty high profile examples. 

Alec: [00:06:52] Before we move on, have you ever actually tried it?

Bryce: [00:06:54] I've tried a competitor. OK, not Beyond Meat. 

Alec: [00:06:59] OK. Yeah, neither of which is a little bit annoying. I would have liked to have tried it before this episode. 

Bryce: [00:07:03] Yeah, the competitor was pretty decent. Okay. Yeah. We've got one pretty high profile example of someone who has tried it, and that is Bill Gates, who's now an investor in Beyond Meat. 

Alec: [00:07:13] Yeah, I think the investors in Beyond Meat are impressive. And if you're going to judge a company by the company that it keeps the there's some pretty big endorsements here. Bill Gates is an investor. Tyson Foods, which is the biggest meat producer in the US, is an investor. Former McDonald's CEO is an investor. So I think that's impressive. But yeah, what Bill Gates said, let's say the quote and then talk about it, what did he say? 

Bryce: [00:07:42] He said that what I was experiencing was more than a clever meat substitute. It was a taste of the future of food. 

Alec: [00:07:50] And he also said he couldn't tell the difference between Beyond Meat's chicken strips and chicken. 

Bryce: [00:07:56] Yeah.

Alec: [00:07:57] I just don't know if I believe it. 

Bryce: [00:07:58] Well, I hope to believe it.

Alec: [00:08:00] That's a pretty ringing endorsement the future of food, but also a ringing endorsement if he couldn't tell the difference. That's the context, I think. 

Bryce: [00:08:07] And I mean, I have no legs to stand on. I haven't tried it. He's tried it, and it's something you would say if you're invested in the company. 

Alec: [00:08:14] Yeah. So where are we at on this episode? There's these big problems with our current food system that we've touched on. Beyond Meat's solution to solving them was to basically take animals out of the equation and replace it with plant-based substitutes. And their whole philosophy from the very beginning was we need to create a substitute that taste like feels like and cooks like meat. We don't want to go through the consumer education of How do you cook without meat? How do you have a diet without meat? We just want to give it a like for like replacement, which solves those problems. And that from the very beginning has been Beyond Meat's philosophy and based on some of the investors and some of the commentary from Bill Gates. They are doing a pretty good job of that. So that's where we're at now. But they're not the only people trying to solve that problem.

Bryce: [00:09:03] No, the market is pretty saturated and very competitive at the moment. You've got Impossible Foods who produce a number of vegan products. They're one of the largest competitors and probably most similar to Beyond Meat in terms of products that they're creating. Then you've got some of the big retail consumer brand names. You've got Kellogg's and Nestlé, Oatly who are all competing in that plant-based space. But you know, they're producing products that are more around eggs, breakfast cereals and oat milk. So, yes, some pretty big names. They're trying to put their toes in the water, but they're not the speciality producers like Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods. 

Bryce: [00:09:46] Yeah, yeah. Worldwide plant-based meat was valued at about five and a half billion dollars in 2020, forecast to grow to about $15 billion in 2027. So not a huge industry. But, you know, if it's going to triple in seven years, you'd like to see that. Beyond Meat has about 25 percent market share. Impossible Foods is smaller. From what we could see, it's only about four percent. And then there is just a long tail of other brands that play in this space in some way in Australia, V2 Foods is one. I think you saw Yumi's in Coles yesterday. There's a whole lot and there's always more because to be blunt, making plant-based meat isn't difficult. Making it well, is. 

Bryce: [00:10:34] Yeah, I was just going to say I looked at Yumi's yesterday and I'm like, Oh man, I love that their dips, love their hummus, but do I back them into make plant-based burgers? Now, of course, dips in Yumi's is all sort of plant-based anyway, so they've they've probably got some sort of experience. But, you know, Beyond Meat is a pure play in in that they aren't coming from some sort of other background and they're trying to put a stake in the ground in this.

Alec: [00:10:59] Pun intended. 

Bryce: [00:11:00] Yeah, they are a pure play and all their energy goes into it. And I guess it shows their market leaders 25 percent market share. So when I think about these companies, I would probably trust more, a company that's pure play than the one that is is not. 

Alec: [00:11:17] The cost of plant-based meat is something that's important to talk about. So these estimates are from the U.S. but Impossible Foods $11 a pound of beef. Beyond Meat $9 a pound. Real beef $5 a pound, which in some ways makes sense like these are new industries, beef has scale and efficiencies and all of that. But it's also crazy to think that growing and feeding an animal, slaughtering it and then delivering it to a retail location is half the cost of doing it with plants.

Bryce: [00:11:55] Yeah, I guess that they have incredible scale.

Alec: [00:11:58] Incredible scale. Yeah, yeah. That's I guess the competitive landscape construed as narrowly as possible, which is what are the other plant-based substitutes and what is Beyond Meat sit in the ecosystem. There are two other competitive lenses I think you have to put on it. The second one is just people that are just changing their diets and just eating vegetables as vegetables and not vegetables masquerading as something else. And I think that is a growing and ever present competitor because Beyond Meat, Impossible Foods, all these other plant-based meat substitutes may be like a stepping stone to just eating vegan or vegetarian without needing to substitute meat. 

Bryce: [00:12:43] Yeah, but it's things like the burgers and the spaghetti bolognese and those sorts of things that you might want to not miss out on and not take away from your diet. And that's where this comes into play, I reckon, you know, you know what I mean? Like, if I was to think about going for vego, I would probably still want to have a made substitute in there because there are a lot of meat products or meat, you know, meals that involvement that I would hate to see go from my diet.

Alec: [00:13:08] So that's the second lens, the people just not eating a replacement. But I take your point. There are certain meals where you sometimes need that. The other lens, I can't remember how many lenses I'm up to. The other competitive lens that I think is really important is to think about what are the other alternatives that solve that core problem that we establish at the start, all those multiple call problems that we establish at the start. And one that I am really excited about and feels to be growing in the background and will become really relevant pretty soon is lab grown, a.k.a. clean meat, a.k.a. a number of different names for it. But this is meat, but just not naming an animal to live, to create it. You just take animal cells and you create it in a lab. But textually, chemically, biologically, everything it is meat.

Bryce: [00:14:02] Yeah. 

Alec: [00:14:04] Well, that's all the reaction I got. Well, I mean, you know about it, but I know about it. 

Bryce: [00:14:07] Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I feel I feel like it's here, but it's still it feels a little bit further away to getting it on the shelves in the supermarket and educating consumers about it and that sort of stuff. But you're right for me that that is a really exciting part of this market. 

Alec: [00:14:24] Yeah. So there's one jurisdiction in the world where Lab-Grown Meat has been approved. That's in Singapore. One company has, I think it's called Just Eats, but do your own research on that, has had the chicken approved by the Singapore regulators. The biggest company in this space was called Memphis Meats. It's now called Upside Foods. They raised a hundred and sixty one million Series B last year that included Bill Gates, Richard Branson, a number of other big names - Kimbal Musk, Elon Musk's brother. But then also, I think, quite importantly, two of the biggest meat producers in America, Tyson Foods and Cargill. So these are like big names and big companies that are making a bet on lab grown meat. You'll notice that Bill Gates is really spreading his bets. He's invested in Beyond Meat, Impossible Foods and Memphis Meats, which is now Upside Foods. So take that for what you will. But this is, I think, a real competitive threat to Beyond Meat because Bank of America did a survey and they looked at why people were moving away from traditional meat alternatives. Thirty five percent said health and nutrition, 30 percent said environmental reasons. Now thirty five percent for health and nutrition reasons. If it's a lab grown or if it's traditional meat, those health problems will still exist like there will still be. Not the healthiest option. So those people will stay with plant alternatives. But the 30 percent that have shifted away from traditional meat because of environmental reasons could be induced by lab grown because of the climate impacts. All the resources. All of that stuff is no longer an issue with lab grown. So that's going to be a really interesting one to watch for Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods and these plant-based alternatives. They may end up being just one solution to a problem that has other solutions. So then it becomes How do you compete on cost and taste and all of that stuff? And then that will be very interesting. 

Bryce: [00:16:36] Yeah, or they get in the game themselves. That could be a possibility. 

Alec: [00:16:39] And do lab-grown. Yeah, true. I wonder, I feel like the know how and the technology to do lab grown meat and plant-based meat would be pretty different.

Bryce: [00:16:49] I mean, maybe, but it's no. It could be no different to the Kelloggs going we need to get into. Well, yeah, it's a bit different. But yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, anyway, so let's keep moving. 

Alec: [00:16:59] So I think there's one last thing that we need to touch on when we talk about the company. And that is, since Beyond Meat listed, it feels like every brand formed a partnership with either them or Impossible Foods a Beyond Meat. McDonald's, Yum, which is KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, PepsiCo, Dunkin Doughnuts. They all announced partnerships with Beyond Meat and then Impossible Foods similarly had a whole bunch of others. Burger King, a number of other brands. Every big food chain wanted to get in the plant-based meat game, and there was so much excitement around the time Beyond Meat IPO. I think it was up like two hundred and fifty percent from when it IPO. Yeah, it's come back since, but a lot of that was because of the hype. Every all of these big names, we're getting into the plant-based meat alternative game, and they all launched special menu items with plant-based meat with Beyond Meat, and a lot of them still have those menu items, it should be said. But the important thing to just watch is what's real and what's hype there? Because of course, when there's something new, a lot of these businesses are going to try it and see how it goes. And as stock investors, we say that in the stock price goes, goes up and we get really excited. But we got to remember that a lot of this is just testing and learning, and we have seen some of these businesses discontinue their plant-based meat trials. So Dunkin Doughnuts discontinued their Beyond Meat breakfast sandwich over with Impossible Foods. Burger King discontinued that impossible croissan which, which is just such an American thing. There's a lot of excitement for Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods because of the partnerships they were able to form. A lot of that excitement is justified. But it is important to keep a track because some of them have been discontinued. And you know, like imagine if Maccas discontinued a national partnership with Beyond Meat. Like, what that would do to the share price. 

Bryce: [00:18:57] Yeah. Well, before we chat about financials and have a look at the future. Let's just take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. So, Ren, let's jump into some of the numbers for Beyond Meat, the share price at the time of recording on the fourth of November, currently $99.57 USD. And it is down more than 30 per cent this year. So taking a little bit of a hit, it did pop when it IPOd. 

Alec: [00:19:28] Where is it since that IPO? 

Bryce: [00:19:29] So looking at Superhero, since IPO, it is up 57 percent, But Ren that is down from a high of 100. Well, a high of about thirty four bucks, which was just after IPO, and that was up 254 percent.

Alec: [00:19:46] Yeah, it's been a real rollercoaster ride. If you got in early on beyond May, you are very happy, then you are very sad. And now you're sort of back to probably neutral. 

Bryce: [00:19:54] Yeah, it's been pretty. It's been in a bit of a downtrend really since the start of this year. It's one of those stocks that I think is going to be reasonably volatile as it finds its place as consumers find their spot in the market as well as competitors play. As you said, Ren, there's a couple of solutions to the problems, so I feel like it's it's going to be one of those stocks where you you're on a bit of a ride. 

Alec: [00:20:13] Yeah, let's look beyond the share price because with the company, this new like, of course, there's going to be volatility in the share price. What is so impressive is the business story so founded in 2009. By 2016, it was doing $16 million in revenue. Up to last year, so for 2020 it did over $400 million in revenue. 

Bryce: [00:20:38] Yeah, incredible growth. 

Alec: [00:20:39] That is just an incredible business story. Now compare that to Impossible Foods, its major competitor. It's Impossible Foods isn't public, but estimates are it does about $230 million in revenue a year. So these days, beyond is not quite double, but close to double in terms of revenue. 

Bryce: [00:20:58] That's interesting given the difference in market share. 

Alec: [00:21:02] Yeah, well, I mean, market share estimates are loose, especially when you're talking about global market share. 

Bryce: [00:21:07] Yeah, true. So it's not profitable. 

Alec: [00:21:10] It's not profitable. It's never been profitable. Are you surprised, though?

Bryce: [00:21:15] Yeah, I am. I think. 

Alec: [00:21:16] Really? For a company that's trying to invent its way into a new category.

Bryce: [00:21:20] Yeah. 

Alec: [00:21:21] Market itself into existence. 

Bryce: [00:21:23] Yeah. 

Alec: [00:21:23] Okay. Well, really surprised because it lost $50 million last year. Obviously, that was Covid affected in 2019. It lost twelve. The three years before that, it lost about thirty. Twenty five to thirty a year. So it's losing money.

Bryce: [00:21:40] Yeah, right.

Alec: [00:21:40] Yeah. The question becomes when a company is losing that much money, what does it have on its balance sheet or how much cash or short term investments does it have in reserves? Luckily, it does have a lot. It's got about. This is all full year 2020 reporting numbers. How's about $120 million in inventory? That is a number to watch. If that number gets too high, that's problematic. It's a perishable product, but it's got about $160 million in cash, and short term investments. Lost about $50 million last year. So on the very basic maths of how much cash does it have and how much money is it losing? Yeah, it's got a few years runway. 

Bryce: [00:22:18] A few. Literally a few. So let's talk about the future prospects in the bigger picture. You mentioned at the top Ren is that there are four kind of major reasons or problems that exist that have led to Beyond Meat, you know, being where it is, and that really feels like where the growth is going to come from. You know, people who are concerned about animal cruelty, moving to plant-based alternatives, people who are conscious about the health benefits of eating plant over meat are going to turn to, you know, Beyond Meat potentially. Rising consumption of other sorts of plant-based meats. And then also, you know, that sort of growing adoption is we're seeing of the vegan vegetarian lifestyle. So all the points that we mentioned at the top are sort of tailwinds for Beyond Meat. 

Alec: [00:23:06] Yeah, they are. And that's only going to increase. Yeah, I remember when I was at Coles, you know, there was a real trend for like meat free Mondays and stuff like that. That was a real consumer trend that people were noticing and we were responding to. I'm sure it was the same that you were seeing at Woolies. People just cutting meat. My folks have basically cut meat. 

Bryce: [00:23:27] Same. Completely cut it. 

Alec: [00:23:29] Yeah, and they're not like vegetarian or vegan or anything, but it's just like, we just don't need to eat meat every meal. 

Bryce: [00:23:35] Yeah, it's interesting. The demographics, how they change, I don't think, yeah. Anyway, it's it's interesting because I would have thought, particularly people like my parents and perhaps yours as well, who would have been probably traditionally been meat eaters. 

Alec: [00:23:49] Yeah, meat in and three veg, that's how they grew up. 

Bryce: [00:23:52] They've just gone, "nah let's move on". 

Alec: [00:23:54] Yeah, yeah. And I think my sister, she's vegan and I think they've seen her and, you know, there's still food that she can eat, and I think she's really changed their mind about it. But that is a trend that is happening more and more, you know? A couple of these companies that we've spoken about in this Summer Series so far, the key sort of headline is there is a massive tailwind there. And the question is, is this company going to be the one that wins? You know, we spoke about Match Group. There's a tailwind in online love. We spoke about F45. You know, there's always money flowing into the fitness and health sector and it's like, are they going to be the ones to capture it? I think my takeaway here is the same. There is a massive tailwind like consumer habits are changing, money is flowing into alternatives from traditional livestock. The question is, is Beyond Meat going to be the one to take? Is it going to be Impossible Foods? Is it going to be a competitor that we haven't seen yet? Or is it going to be new technology and like lab grown meat or something like that? 

Alec: [00:24:55] Yeah. For me, there's no doubt that where we're certainly at the start of a transition and there's no doubt people are becoming more and more aware of the impact of eating meat ethically on health. All sorts of reasons, but changing consumer behaviour, changing. You know what has been ingrained for so long? It's a really slow process. This is not something that's going to happen overnight. So it you're right, Ren. When you are thinking about Beyond Meat, you do have to think and decades, I imagine. 

Alec: [00:25:27] Yeah, for me, there's two other interesting things to think of as an investor. How does government policy change both on the positive and the negative side? So on the positive side for Beyond Meat, more policy around climate change. Obviously, we've been focussed on carbon emissions to date, but methane emissions affect the climate as well, and livestock is a big contributor to that. So does the regulatory environment change in Beyond Meat's favour? Did I get closer to price parity based on increased taxes or something on livestock as part of, you know, emissions pricing? That's on one side. On the other side, you can see a world where the National Party in Australia and farmer focussed parties around the world try and protect their farming industries as all these competitors start to take a chunk out of their market share. I guess, and it wouldn't surprise me if things like calling something a meat alternative isn't allowed anymore. You know how there's like truth in labelling laws, and you have to call it like a plant burger rather than like alternative meat burger or something like that? Same with lab grown meat. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of pressure around how that was allowed to be marketed and stuff like that. And what does that mean? You know, if you're trying to educate consumers that there are alternatives, but the meat lobby, I guess, is pushing back on how you can educate consumers on what you can, how you can market stuff. So, yeah, I think for me, that balance and where we say regulations go on both sides will be an interesting one to watch. One more thing that I think we should touch on just before we wrap is China, because beyond may have recently opened a distribution factory in Shanghai, and they're attempting to expand into China. And for me, this is just a fascinating mostly we think about these companies really focussing on Western diets and especially American diets. If Beyond Meat or Impossible Foods or any of these companies was able to nail an expansion into Asia, or if a Chinese or an Asian company was able to do something similar like that would be a fascinating story to watch because there's so many consumers. Obviously, income per capita is lower, and so if there's a cheap, if they can produce a cheaper alternative, that's a story I would love to see unfold. And as an investor, you know, like Beyond Meat successfully expands into some of those other countries, India, obviously, it's very early. They've really just opened the factory. But if you're doing due diligence on Beyond Meat, don't be too western. Focussed in your analysis is potentially potentially a global success story or a global failure. So look globally. Yeah. 

Alec: [00:28:12] Ren. That brings us to the end of today's episode. We are really enjoying the Summer Series brought to you by Superhero, who now allow you to buy Aussie and US shares and ETFs with no monthly account fees. And you can now end Qantas points with superhero. So visit Superhero.com.au/Qantas to learn more. Eligibility criteria, terms and conditions and fees and charges apply. We will be continuing next week where we deep dive into an Australian stock perpetual. We'll hear from their CEO after we spend a bit of time unpacking funds management business. It's going to be an interesting conversation, one that we haven't had on the show before. What is the business of funds management, asset management? So really looking forward to chatting with their CEO? A reminder that if you want to go in the draw to win a $1000 in your Superhero wallet, you can buy it. Taking one of your favourite facts from this episode, heading across to the Equity Mates Instagram page at Equity Mates and on the corresponding post for this specific episode, let us know in the comments what your favourite fact was about to Beyond Meat. And stay tuned as we'll announce the winner on our stories at the end of the week. You just need to be following Equity Mates and Superhero on Instagram to be eligible, and you can go on the chance to win a thousand bucks. You can actually win 12 grand if you listen to all episodes and leave the best facts for all 12. 

Alec: [00:29:38] You'd be pretty impressive if you could do the best fact of all. 12. I would be worried about the amount of people that were participating in the game then, but hey, there's no minimum participation. So being the chance to win 12 grand? 

Alec: [00:29:51] That's it. It's been enjoyable. As always, chatting stocks. We've got perpetual next week and we'll pick it up then. Sounds good.