No Ring, Same Problems

Carmel Moorhead: [00:00:19] Hello and welcome to the very first episode ever of Mate Pay Love. I'm Carmel and I'm recording with my sister Zoe and this podcast is all about money and relationships. All the tough questions that no one really talks about the [00:00:34][15.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:00:34] taboo subjects in society that we've never really discussed if you will. We'd like to start off by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land in which we are recording and listening to this podcast on. We want to acknowledge the elders past, present and emerging. [00:00:48][14.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:00:49] So I'm Carmel. I'm 26. I'm a lawyer in the area of property law. I mean, a four year relationship with my partner. We are in a house together and we have a little dog. [00:00:58][8.7]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:00:59] And I am Zoe. I'm Carmel little sister. I'm 24 years old. I work in digital marketing. I've been with my partner for, I think about two years now. And we've been living together for six months. We kind of moved in because of the covid situation and we adopted a little kitten. His name is Dumpling. [00:01:15][16.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:01:16] So you can tell maybe from our little introductions that we are not financial experts. Not at all. And we're not relationship experts. Not at all. But what we are going to do during this podcast is throw over the tough questions to people who are experts in these areas. So have you ever wanted you wanted to buy a house with your partner, but one of you has a lot more in savings than the other? [00:01:40][23.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:01:40] Or when's a good time to join a bank account or move in together? [00:01:43][2.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:01:44] Who pays for what during the course of a relationship? Who pays for the check at the start and who pays for the divorce at the end? What are some red flags to look out for that? You should say not. I'm not dating you anymore. [00:01:55][11.5]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:01:56] Not interested. [00:01:56][0.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:01:58] So the reason we wanted to start this podcast is that one in five relationships end because of money issues. [00:02:04][6.0]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:02:05] And I think for both Carmel and I, we thought of having a few chats with our friendship groups about money and that sort of stuff. And we've realized that a lot of it is not really talked about. [00:02:14][9.2]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:02:14] And as soon as I started bringing up the questions of, hey, do you guys invest much or hey, does one of you in the relationship pay for the rent more than the other? If one earns more than the other? And my friends all started saying, oh, my gosh, yes, I want to talk about this, but we've never really done it. And it seems to be more common among my male friends that they might have an inbox that they discuss their stock picks. Or I've seen on the equity mates Facebook page that a lot of my guy friends are in it, but not necessarily my girlfriends. [00:02:46][31.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:02:47] Yeah, and with my friendship group, I guess we're a bit more don't have as much disposable income going around. Where are you, the casual workers, part-time workers or just starting out full-time career. And I used to bring up the conversation of money and walk away from it being like, oh, I shouldn't have said that. Might feel a bit embarrassed. Yeah, a been embarrassed but guilty when really we should be regulating the conversation and normalizing it within our friendship groups. [00:03:10][22.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:03:10] I think so too. And particularly in relationships like according to Elle magazine, 42 percent of Australians still feel that topic of money is taboo. [00:03:19][8.8]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:03:20] It's almost like we'd rather talk about sex and politics and stuff, so make people feel uncomfortable. [00:03:25][4.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:03:26] And 43 percent of Australians in committed relationships aren't regularly talking openly about their financial situation, according to a study done by Westpac. [00:03:35][9.0]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:03:36] I guess for you and paid up because you've bought a house together, you'd be talking regularly about finance. [00:03:40][4.0]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:03:41] Well, I always push the subject pay rates. I mean, that's been imposing money for three days. We don't talk [00:03:50][9.4]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:03:50] about it, is it? Ali and I, we just kind of it's not something huge that we talk about, but it's not taboo either. [00:03:58][7.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:03:59] So today, this first episode, we're going to be drilling into the issue of de facto relationships because de facto relationships are on the rise. [00:04:07][8.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:04:08] To be honest, I never knew what a de facto relationship was until we started this podcast, and I'm not sure that many people do. And when I decided to ask a few friends of mine, they didn't know what it was either, but recorded what they've said. And here we [00:04:20][12.1]

Wendy: [00:04:20] Hi, my name's Wendy. I'm a doctor. We've been dating for almost two years. [00:04:25][4.5]

Jake: [00:04:26] My name is Jake. I'm a psychology student, just graduated. And we've been dating for what Wendy said. As far as I understand what a de facto relationship is, it's you living together for a certain amount of time. It's a like monogamous relationship. And yeah, you live together, you get your slam back and I guess you support each other financially. [00:04:50][24.2]

Wendy: [00:04:51] Yeah, I wasn't too concerned about being in a de facto relationship. The only thing is because Jake is looking for a full time job. And so I was just one. If it would affect his Centrelink payments, [00:05:01][10.4]

Jake: [00:05:02] I don't know anything about being a de facto relationship before I moved in. I mean, I'm pretty relaxed. I just sort of go into it just knowing for the best, really thinking about it too much. I'm just living with my best friend. [00:05:14][11.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:05:15] God, they're good. Thank you, Wendy and Jack, for being a part of this. Our very first episode, [00:05:19][4.1]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:05:20] I really identified with what Jake said about how I'm pretty relaxed, like most people go into a relationship thinking that it's going to work out otherwise, you know, what are you doing? [00:05:30][9.6]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:05:30] It's funny, though, that Jake said that his understanding of it, of a de facto relationship is after being together for a certain amount of time, really, that's most people's understanding. Like they've only really heard the word de facto whispered behind the by society, but it's never been brought to the front or they've seen it on the news and someone's got some sort of right to something. Yeah. Or it's mentioned [00:05:50][20.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:05:51] in a movie or popular culture, but no one really knows what it means and how that impacts on your legal rights. Yeah. [00:05:57][6.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:05:57] It's such a broad understanding and it's like we need to know about the certain amount of time being specific and the specific ruling. [00:06:03][5.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:06:05] So now we're going to throw to an interview. We're really, really lucky and excited to have satbir singh. He's a senior family lawyer from culture. Right. He practices in Geelong and Melbourne and he is an expert in this area. He's been a finalist in the Australian 30 under 30 awards. And he's also been recognized as a rising star in The Doyle's Guide for his work in family law. Can you start off by, if you can, explain for us what is a de facto relationship? [00:06:33][28.3]

Satbir Singh: [00:06:34] That's a very good question, Carol, because a lot of people don't realize what a de facto relationship is. And it's quite often a term used by lawyers and academics. And a lot of people don't realize it applies to them. Loosely speaking, de facto relationship is a relationship of a period of about two years of cohabitation. So when you're living together for two years, you're technically classified as being in a de facto relationship. It's important to know because your legal rights change when you're in a de facto relationship and you're no longer loosely considered a boyfriend and girlfriend, but you're considered de facto [00:07:06][32.6]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:07:07] is is it only living together that you can be a de facto relationship or can you be together for like a couple of years? [00:07:13][5.9]

Satbir Singh: [00:07:14] That is an excellent question and that is one way. A lot of case law has been written and a lot of people have had a lot of arguments about there've been a number of cases where people have been considered to be in a de facto relationship for a period of less than two years living together. And what often changes that is if you have children, you show a commitment to one another financially. You no longer have separate bank accounts, but you then intermingle your finances. Conversely, there have been people who have had who have lived together for more than two years. However, the question often arises, what has lived together? There was there's been some cases recently over the last 10 years where people never live together. And what they do is they quite often stay over people's houses, which may ring a bell to a lot of your listeners because that's what a lot of people do. And in those circumstances, how do you know when someone's in a de facto relationship? [00:08:06][51.6]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:08:07] Yes, or my partner and I have been together for two years. We've only lived together for the last six months. But the first year and a half, I basically lived in his house anyway. So, like, would that be considered a de facto like to what extent would I have to have paid for bills for us to be in a de facto relationship? [00:08:23][16.5]

Satbir Singh: [00:08:24] Well, living together is only one element of it. What we'd look at as lawyers and what judicial officers look at is to what extent you are no longer living separately. And living doesn't just simply mean your residential arrangements but looks at your finances. Who is paying bills, who is paying rent, whether that was a joint expense, whether you're staying in the same bedroom and whether you when you went out to dinner, you both paid equally or you both one person paid for the other person. So it's not living together doesn't strictly refer to staying in the same home, but it really just depends on how you go about living your life. [00:09:00][36.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:09:01] It's interesting. I didn't know that. Would it be like grocories as well? Like who paid for groceries that we're all eating like? [00:09:06][5.2]

Satbir Singh: [00:09:07] I think if you get down to the technical element of it, then that's potentially right. But to get down to that level of detail would be quite, quite rare. But if you're disputing a de facto relationship, I've had cases and I've read cases where people go into so much detail that who pays for what is is often a question that's the subject of court material. And as I said, the threshold is generally two years living together, cohabitate together. What I then look at is if there is a dispute as a family lawyer and as a lot of judges look, barristers look at to what extent was your lifestyle intermingled? Right now, that's probably a bit of a roundabout way of answering your question, but it's not clear cut. And as everything in the law, most things are different shades of gray. [00:09:48][41.6]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:09:50] And earlier, you said that de facto relationships have legal implications. What do you mean by that? And why is de facto something that people need to keep in mind? [00:09:59][9.2]

Satbir Singh: [00:10:00] Well, de facto similar to marriage, you've got cities you are legally considered to be in a de facto relationship. That's when the provisions of the Family Law Act start to apply, which means that financially speaking, that's when you have to look at dividing your finances. It becomes important to consider who brought in one into the relationship. De facto relationships is generally the starting point for working out whether there is a claim, a financial claim against the other person or in the relationship. [00:10:26][26.1]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:10:27] So going right back, it really only matters if you have a dispute and you want to break up. [00:10:31][4.3]

Satbir Singh: [00:10:33] That's probably the simplest way to put it, [00:10:35][1.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:10:35] but, you know, de facto relationships say, like my partner and I had more assets than he did, he has a claim to those assets. If we were to break up, bonds were a de facto relationship. [00:10:44][8.4]

Satbir Singh: [00:10:45] Technically, you're probably right in one respect. But the common misconception is people think as soon as they hit that magic defect, mark, that it's 50/50, someone could have 500000 dollars in assets, someone could have nothing. But as soon as you hit two years, it becomes 50 50. That's a common misconception. What happens is and I'll talk to you briefly about the way the law looks at those matters. So let's say you had a separate offer, two, three, four years or even longer, your initial contribution. So what you brought into that relationship carries significant white. So let's say someone brought in a property worth two or three hundred thousand dollars and the other person did nothing. That initial contribution will obviously work tremendously in their final initial contributions do deteriorate over time. So let's say people ended up having a 20 or 30 year relationship. The value of what you brought in at the start of the relationship is no longer particularly relevant, but in a short relationship. So let's say in a relationship which can be five years less, 10 years less and medium term relationship, then there really is got to give what you bring into that relationship significant white. And that's what the law looks at. Your initial contributions are considered by the law. So when you do when you do enter into a relationship, don't be worried that we're heading out to our two year anniversary. As soon as we clock into that twenty four month mark, you're entitled to 50 percent of my assets because that's it's a it's not a magic. It doesn't work simply quite simply that [00:12:11][86.7]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:12:12] I'll be honest, as soon as I heard about what a de facto relationship is, I was like, how can I get out of it? Like I trust my partner, love him to death, but I want my own stuff. [00:12:22][10.2]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:12:23] Is there a way that you can get out of de facto relationships? Can you avoid them or can you agree with your partner not to be in them? [00:12:30][6.7]

Satbir Singh: [00:12:30] Well, I guess the short answer is you break up with your partner [00:12:32][1.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:12:34] just before two years. [00:12:34][0.7]

Satbir Singh: [00:12:35] That's one way to describe just me. That's one way to enter de facto. That's one way to exit a de facto relationship is to no longer have a partner. But now the way that I encourage people to look at things, I don't encourage people to to think about things strictly legally. That's the job of lawyers and that's the job of lawyers, judges and barristers alike. When you're in a relationship, not a lot of people will think about that to your mark. Not a lot of people will think about, oh, we're heading up to a two year anniversary. They can take me for everything I've got. The short answer is there's no real easy way to get out of the de facto relationship rather than other than pull the pin on the relationship altogether. What is a interesting point, though, is de facto relationship can be, I guess, a bit messy in one sense if you don't live together. So there have been situations where they've been case law about billionaires who have had mistresses on the side, and those mistresses have declined to be a de facto relationship because you can be married and you can be in a de facto relationship, but you cannot pay is you cannot be married to two people. So what is a de facto relationship is a question which, as I said, it's been thousands of decisions written about. And it can be quite, quite interesting when you delve into people's lifestyles. There was one case I recall, and I can't recall the exact details, but some people can be considered a mistress and not a de facto at least this obviously this this applies to those billionaire philanthropists to travel the world. And it can get up to a certain certain things. [00:14:03][88.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:14:05] People no good [00:14:05][0.9]

Satbir Singh: [00:14:09] could get up to no good. And all of a sudden I've got a claim against him for a de facto relationship. In those circumstances, you really do need to look at the details. And I encourage if you if you ever are concerned as to whether you're in a de facto relationship or not before considering whether to divide your assets at the end of that relationship, seek legal advice because people will because lawyers will need to know the ins and outs of your particular circumstances. There are also other ways to protect yourself, effectively, be living together, but having two separate lives. So, in essence, have my. [00:14:40][31.6]

Satbir Singh: [00:15:15] And separate bank accounts, one person pays for it, one person brought in a property that Nikpai continue to buy the mortgage on that property, then continue to file outgoings in relation to that property. And the other person pay not rent as such, but may make general living expenses. Again, it's a case by case basis and these things change. As soon as you have children, the parameters change even further. And depending on your incomes, if you're both on relatively similar incomes, that's not that's not really possible for one person to make the expenses and the other person not. Not, and especially if people have businesses. As I said, it's not something which I encourage people to consciously think about before entering a relationship. But let's let the relationship run its course. [00:16:00][45.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:16:01] Well, that's a good segue to my next question, which is, would you recommend or what would you recommend for young people prior to moving in with their partners? [00:16:09][7.9]

Satbir Singh: [00:16:10] If yes, that's a good question. And if I I see a lot of young people I see a lot of people aged between 20 to 35 who have separated. And it's not a criticism of anyone. The biggest mistake that I see, people don't know what they had at the start of their relationship. So people don't often know how much they had in their bank accounts. People don't know how much what the Roth value of their motor vehicle would be or alternatively what their superannuation is. And I'm probably guilty as anyone. I still don't know what my superannuation is, but I encourage I encourage people to get that information and they even just email it to yourself. Just say, you know, I probably take you half an hour to take those screenshots and just email it to yourself, because depending on the length of the relationship, if you had twenty or thirty thousand dollars in your bank account, fifty to sixty thousand dollars in superannuation, that's all going to be taken into consideration. Most costly and time consuming task as a lawyer at the end of the process is getting people to trace that back. People are pretty good at that now with net banking and the records they've got. But it's much easier if you're able to say that if you're able to just send yourself an email on this date and decide this is what I had. [00:17:20][69.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:17:20] Just roughly you're listening to make pay love with Kamel and Zoe, where we talk all things money and relationships. We're going to pause here and hear a message from our sponsors. We should just quickly clarify, for the purposes of your role, what do you consider a short term relationship? What do you consider mid-term and what do you consider long? [00:17:40][20.4]

Satbir Singh: [00:17:41] That's the million dollar question. [00:17:42][0.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:17:44] It seems like family life is full of these questions. Emails like. I'm not sure. It depends. It depends. [00:17:51][6.4]

Satbir Singh: [00:17:52] I think I think the law in general is all shades of gray. Loosely speaking, I would say five years time, five years less of the short relationship, anything less than ten years is probably considered medium term. Anything more than ten. You're probably heading into the long term territory. But I will say this in relation to family law, in relation to the law in general, it's not a science. It's really not a science. Everything's based on percentages and it's based on you. You you would be very surprised the situations people find themselves in. And that's not just in the way they manage their finances. That's interesting. That's in the way they manage their the parenting and the children's arrangements. So that's why family law is not a science. And there's lots of little things which can trigger a division either. [00:18:35][43.2]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:18:36] I heard a rumor and it might be incorrect, but can you be in a de facto relationship if you're not in a romantic or sexual relationship, or is it only romantic relationships [00:18:45][8.4]

Satbir Singh: [00:18:46] being interesting, de facto relationship? It wasn't a romantic sexual relationship, but that's a good question. I would say I look outside that one of the hallmarks and one of the one of the, I guess, characteristics of a de facto relationship is that you are, I guess, sharing a sharing a bed, sharing in, sharing a lot, sharing a life. It's very difficult to be sharing a lot. Romantic is a bit of a bit of a subjective word because one party could say that your relationship is romantic and the other party may say it's not romantic. So romantic is a bit of a it's a bit of a subjective word. I would say that you would have to be in it if you would have to have a love, a the way to be considered to be considered a de facto relationship. But I've often had these arguments where and again, going back to the fact that families, all shades of gray, where people say that their relationship ended ten years, ten years ago when they've been living together for ten years, extraordinarily difficult to prove. It quite often happens, especially the longer relationships that and this applies with marriages as well, when you're trying to isolate it died of separation. Two people can be living together. Twenty years, but they might say ten years ago our relationship actually ended because we started sleeping in separate bedrooms. We set out to set up separate bank accounts, but it was just easier to stay in the same house. It makes the process a little bit more difficult because you have to try. And if that's consented to go, then you can go back and look at what the reality was at the time. Everyone says separation occurred. But if that's not. And stated then you have to try and prove that that's when you separate it and it becomes, as you can imagine, you then have to go through people's lifestyles again. Most of them don't even know when the start of their de facto relationship would be. If you asked my I would remember because my partner makes me remember that it's a lot of people just naturally fall into a relationship. [00:20:39][113.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:20:40] Does she make you remember because you both family lawyers or did she make you remember? Because it's like an anniversary. [00:20:45][5.3]

Satbir Singh: [00:20:47] Because it's an anniversary and she's ridiculously well organized. Yes. A lot of people died and people will pay. My fun is that when they're in a relationship, things just progressed naturally. And then you're looking back to when when did that happen? What date was that? So a lot of people can sort of look around about June or May or even September is probably when were classified as living together, but it'll be around that block again. Look, there's no hard and fast rule on this one, but when we look at the state of cohabitation, it's when you when you started living together formally. So again, send yourself an email and try to start a living together. That way you can find it in five or ten years time. [00:21:30][43.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:21:31] Copy partnering [00:21:31][0.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:21:33] success. You say it quite often. [00:21:36][2.9]

Satbir Singh: [00:21:36] I've had cases where people got that look, throw in the guy. Oh, that's my I ordered a removalist on that side. So you have the font in your emails again, not the end of the world. Very rarely is that date contested very, very rarely. And there's got to be a practical reality to this. Imagine if one person says you step right at the top of January 2020, the other person say you separate in December 2020. Are you really going to spend years fighting about that? [00:22:01][25.4]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:22:03] So the name of this episode is No Ring, same problems are trying to say is that even if you don't get married because they're trying to get married is changing. So as people of our generation are less likely to get married young, they're more likely to wait a little bit longer, maybe wait so they're financially stable enough that they can afford the wedding that they want or maybe they don't see the [00:22:25][21.9]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:22:25] point in getting. Yeah, maybe they don't get married. Oh, I've got a lot of friends who diving in to have kids before they get married or maybe just not getting married or for financial reasons or. Yeah, they just don't see the point. [00:22:35][10.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:22:36] But basically. So even if it's two years, especially if they have kids and they don't see the point in getting married, they've basically got a de facto relationship, which is essentially [00:22:46][10.0]

Satbir Singh: [00:22:48] the same legal rights [00:22:49][0.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:22:51] Is there any time like, say, if you had your own kids and you were imparting wisdom on them, is there any time where you'd recommend them getting married at all? [00:22:59][7.8]

Satbir Singh: [00:23:00] I think marriage is an emotional choice. And for a lot of people, it's natural progression of a relationship. But for a lot of people, especially young people, it's just not necessarily. And that's an emotional choice. And that's why the law brought in the concept of de facto relationships in the concept of marriage. I mean, you see it across all areas of law. You see it across migration law, you see it across. I'm sure you have similar rights in property and commercial transactions as well, but. It's an emotional choice, marriages, emotional choice, but the laws designed to protect people who choose not to get married and live a similar relationship. Hmm. [00:23:32][32.0]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:23:33] Yeah, it's more of a personal choice. There's really no need to get married anymore. [00:23:36][2.7]

Satbir Singh: [00:23:37] The only thing that now obviously applies if you get married, you need to get officially divorced. And officially, divorce is paperwork. It's not it's separate from a financial settlement. But obviously, if you're a de facto relationship, when you acquired that relationship ends [00:23:51][14.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:23:52] and all of your younger clients, perhaps the ones 35 and under, would that percentage change? [00:23:57][5.7]

Satbir Singh: [00:23:59] No, I still think a lot of young people are choosing to get married, may just be taking a longer time to get there. And that's because people have got outside commitments like work commitments. People are no longer feeling the pressure to necessarily have kids at the age of 25, 26, 27. And again, people are living longer, so people have got more time to do things. [00:24:18][19.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:24:19] Thank you so much. Soppy for coming in and talking to us today. I've I definitely feel a lot clearer on what is a de facto relationship and what I can do. It's quite comforting to know that what you really need to do is to make life easier for yourself. Kate timestamped. So send yourself an email futilities. [00:24:37][17.5]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:24:38] It's like in year seven when we all had to write letters to our future selves. [00:24:41][2.6]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:24:42] Do that. Yeah. So you send yourself an email and I like that is good practical advice. And I want to just touch on the fact that although happy at the start of the interview did say boyfriend and girlfriend, I think that de facto the concept of de facto relationships applies to all kinds of different relationship, any romantic relationship, any romantic relationship, same sex polyamorous, polyamorous, the list goes on. And even if you're not in a relationship at all and you are single, I think it's really important to self educate on, OK, I want to buy a house, but I don't know if I'm going to then be in a relationship down the track and I don't know if I want to hold off on purchasing assets. Well, it's comforting, I suppose, to know that initial contributions strongly taken into account. Yeah, it's not that magic 50 50 split [00:25:33][51.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:25:33] that I thought a de facto relationship was. And I'm pretty sure Jake and Wendy said it in their when they were asking the questions, they thought it was a 50/50 split. And they also didn't know what the certain time was. But it's two years. Apparently she doesn't feel like a long time to me [00:25:49][15.9]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:25:50] or unless you have kids, it triggers earlier, I suppose. The other interesting thing that he said was about mistresses, like gergel. If you're in a sugar daddy relationship, but your mistress reach out to us because we want to know it was been going on for longer than two years. You may have a claim. So you seek out Sappi or come to us. [00:26:08][18.4]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:26:08] Oh, God, I want to hear about this. I want to fight for you. Go. [00:26:11][2.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:26:13] The other thing that's interesting is the issue of getting married or not getting married. I have some stats on this. So the Hilter study in Melbourne has said that it's becoming more and more likely that in a relationship that the two parties are going to be dual earners, which means that both parties are working and earning, which it didn't used to be like that used to be more likely that just one party would be the earner. The other interesting thing is that there's been a decrease in the proportion of people who are legally married. And that doesn't mean that there's been a decline in partnering up generally, but that people are less likely to get married and more likely to enter into a de facto. [00:26:55][42.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:26:56] Well, S&P said marriage is a an emotional choice, so you do it emotionally. But if it doesn't work out and you do have to do all the things of a de facto relationship and splitting up your assets, but you also have to divorce, which is another cost on top of splitting up of your assets. [00:27:12][15.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:27:12] Yeah. So it actually costs more to get married and then in a marriage than it does to be a de facto and ended factor. And the other thing that's interesting about these results is that all of us, only a small percent, just shy of three percent, but of married couples and de facto couples, you're more likely in a de facto couple to have a female breadwinner. [00:27:33][20.9]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:27:34] Hell, yeah. Hell yeah. [00:27:35][1.2]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:27:36] Hell yeah. So I find that pretty interesting. [00:27:38][2.6]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:27:39] That brings us to the conversation of our next [00:27:41][1.7]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:27:44] The next episode is with Glenn, head of Fox and his financial advisors firm. [00:27:49][4.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:27:49] And Glenn goes into the details of his relationships, hooked up with his personal trainer. Oh, they're in a serious relationship now. [00:27:57][7.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:27:57] I'm so into that. [00:27:58][1.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:28:00] Which leads off nicely from de facto relationships, because once you move in together, you might think about joining your bank accounts. [00:28:06][6.2]

Gleen: [00:28:06] The biggest mistake I see people make when it comes to managing their finances is they do nothing. They leave it to kind of to chat. So they like I'll deal with that later. Maybe I'll do this. Maybe I'll do that. Like if I give any words of wisdom or kind of closing remark, it's just to some. [00:28:23][16.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:28:24] Thanks very much for tuning in to our first episode, and as I said, please get in touch with us. You can email me at the Carmel@equitymates.com Or you can e-mail zoe@equitymates.com [00:28:33][8.9]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:28:36] We do have like the classic sibling rivalry. So we do compare who emails into each of us and we do keep a tally. And I heard that I get more emails. [00:28:44][8.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:28:45] Yeah, but I'm friendly. Follow us on Instagram. Yeah. So we've just started our own Instagram page. It's at Mapei Love. And we will have if you want to ask us any questions, please contact us through there because we will be on it. [00:29:02][16.6]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:29:03] Or if you're an expert in the area of anywhere on the spectrum of relationships and money, we want to hear from you. And if you're passionate about a topic in this area that you think is not talked about enough, we want to hear your voice. Thanks very much. Goodbye. [00:29:03][0.0]

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