Love and other commodities, how do you navigate the world of money, love and dating apps?

HOSTS Carmel Moorhead & Zoe Moorhead|19 March, 2021

Meet your hosts

  • Carmel Moorhead

    Carmel is in a relationship of three and a half years with her partner, and they own a house together and a dog called Ruby. She says, 'despite my partner also being a lawyer, I still win all arguments'. Carmel loves gardening and can tell the difference between a cucumber pant and zucchini plant just by looking.
  • Zoe Moorhead

    Zoe is in a relationship with her partner of two years and they've lived together for the past 6 months. They have a cat fur baby named Dumpling, he’s a sweet boy with a fluffy face, but according to Zoe, 'he’s currently fighting with his plant brothers and sisters in the form of digging warfare'. In her spare time, Zoe is an amateur potter and has recently discovered the world of yoga and essential oil diffusers (would recommend).

So, it’s no secret that here at MPL, we believe the biggest financial decision you’ll ever make is who you spend the rest of your life with… So while we’ve spent a lot of time speaking about what to do after you meet your partner, we haven’t addressed how you find that special someone.

This week we talk to Samantha Jayne of the Husband project about what it’s like in the dating world these days. We address dating apps, types of lovers out there and the awkwardness about how do you decide who pays on the first date and how do men and women view this differently? 

Carmel and Zoe also talk to two single friends who are out there, in the single market – Dave, and their friend Georgia of the Sh*t Dates podcast. Both give their perspectives on the different aspects of dating! 

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Don’t forget to follow us on insta for memes and details between the episode.

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If this has brought up any concerns or triggered any personal feelings for you, always seek help.

We recommend: Lifeline on 13 11 14

QLife (LGBTQIA Specific) on 1800 184 527

Beyondblue on 1300 224 63

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If you’ve got a question for Zoe or Carmel then go ahead and send them to mpl@equitymates.com

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Meet Pay Love is a product of Equity Mates Media. 

All information in this podcast is for education and entertainment purposes only. Equity Mates gives listeners access to information and educational content provided by a range of financial services professionals. It is not intended as a substitute for professional finance, legal or tax advice. 

The hosts of Meet Pay Love are not financial professionals and are not aware of your personal financial circumstances. Equity Mates Media does not operate under an Australian financial services licence and relies on the exemption available under the Corporations Act 2001 (Cth) in respect of any information or advice given.

Before making any financial decisions you should read the Product Disclosure Statement and, if necessary, consult a licensed financial professional. 

Do not take financial advice from a podcast. 

For more information head to the disclaimer page on the Equity Mates website where you can find ASIC resources and find a registered financial professional near you. 

In the spirit of reconciliation, Equity Mates Media and the hosts of Meet Pay Love acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders past and present and expend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people today. 

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Carmel Moorhead: [00:00:53] Hello and welcome to another episode of Meet Pay Love, where we talk all things money and relationships, because the most important financial decision you will ever make is who you choose to spend the rest of your life with. My name is Carmel and as always, I'm joined by my younger sister, Zoe. [00:01:09][16.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:01:09] We'd like to start off by acknowledging traditional custodians of the land in which you are recording and listening to this podcast on. Today, we pay respect to elders past, present and emerging. [00:01:17][8.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:01:18] So today we're going to shake things up a bit and have a bit more of a lighthearted show. And we're going to be discussing dating apps. Whether you pay for them, who pays on the first date? All things first dating. We even talk a little bit about love bombing. [00:01:32][14.2]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:01:32] we do because it's funny, I've never really been on a dating app and I'm not sure if it's the same for you, but I reckon the first and only time I've been on a dating app was when it first came out and my friends and I went on it more as a laugh. I've never actually been on to find pot and I always did that organically. What about you? [00:01:54][21.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:01:55] Yeah, I think I was on them. This is before hinge. I think it was around the time when it was just Tinder and then Bumble was a thing. So it was around the Bumble was first thing in Melbourne and yeah, I was on it, but I didn't really use it to be honest. And then I ended up meeting Pete my partner, like in the wild in real life. So. But bit of fun. [00:02:15][20.7]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:02:16] Why not? Yeah, well, it seems really fun and I've always like to use my friends dating apps, which I'm not sure if that's like disrespectful, but I really like jump on. I love swiping through all of love. Well, I mean, I love the the naughtiness of it. [00:02:31][15.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:02:32] So would you ever pay for a dating app? Do you reckon [00:02:35][2.7]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:02:35] not? I've met too many people organically to pay for it. But then again, I have subscriptions to all the stuff that I used to. Maybe maybe I'd fall into it. [00:02:43][8.2]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:02:44] Well, I think I wouldn't just purely because I'm a bit of a tortoise in that sense. [00:02:47][3.4]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:02:48] Yeah, that makes sense. No, because I'm tired of. [00:02:50][2.5]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:02:53] Thanks anyway. So now we're going to throw to a guest who we've interviewed on the show was shaking up our format a little bit. And we're speaking to Dave. Dave is a 25 year old lawyer who works in Melbourne and he plays basketball on the weekends. Let's try to Dave now. So, Dave, are you single ? [00:03:14][20.7]

Dave: [00:03:14] and very single coronavirus not been kind to the dating life, unfortunately. [00:03:20][5.1]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:03:20] And are you on apps or. [00:03:22][1.5]

Dave: [00:03:22] I am on a few. I sort of come and go from setting up. I can still do it again and go back to that sort of world of aspirational dieting. Yeah, I'm a huge bumble and tinder [00:03:38][15.8]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:03:40] accessible all over the place. Do you have a favorite? [00:03:42][2.3]

Dave: [00:03:43] I think hinge is I like to think the more classier that it has, that sort of bad rap when it first came out. And he is good because you can sort of get more prompts and you can sort of interact with people in a lot more different ways. Yeah, it feels more personal. Yes. Especially like I think just locking aside on Tinder is not the same as sort of huge, where you can actually add your own comment and sort of get your personality across. [00:04:10][27.9]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:04:11] And have you ever paid for a dating app? [00:04:14][2.3]

Dave: [00:04:14] I have. I think when I went overseas for a few months, I was like, oh, I'll get Tinder gold. I think it was cold at the time. And I thought, you know, I'll also probably buy that a month earlier than I needed to. I wanted to use it for like that passport system where you could sort of drop your location in another country. [00:04:32][18.5]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:04:34] You were getting ready for your trip. Yeah, just lining up a few days. [00:04:37][3.1]

Dave: [00:04:38] hindsight, probably with the worst amount of money investment in my life because nothing eventuated. [00:04:43][5.7]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:04:45] Is it subscription-based or is it like a one-off payment? [00:04:48][2.4]

Dave: [00:04:49] There's a mixture of things you can do. You can buy like the premium feature where you can like they send you offers for super likes. And there is like predatory pricing. Like, I sort of know when you're at your most vulnerable and status, and that's when I send you the fifty percent discount for a limited time only. That's my experience anyway. That's how I feel. It's like Instagram ads, I tell you. And then you lose the engagement with. [00:05:16][27.2]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:05:16] Yeah, yeah. [00:05:17][0.5]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:05:17] Oh I work in marketing so I know exactly the topic I think. [00:05:21][4.2]

Dave: [00:05:22] Yeah you got me [00:05:23][1.6]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:05:25] and you obviously don't pay for it now. So you found that didn't really work out for you. [00:05:29][4.1]

Dave: [00:05:30] Well by raising. I was like, oh, I to give this Bumbo thing a bit more of a boost, so I've got like a weight boost on Bumbo, I think it's back in the day when the first time out of the bubble you could swap, you know, unlimitedly but it's just Fuster and you can just sit on the couch. Miserable Gallant's while sars-cov-2 that's what hit the end of the road. They don't feel satisfied enough. So that's when I bought a burst recently and nothing happened. So I get another ten bucks at a more than you have. [00:06:01][31.7]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:06:02] No surely with covid as well. When everyone's stuck at home you'd be using it a lot and that's when they get you. [00:06:07][5.2]

Dave: [00:06:07] Well, that's what I thought that I spent most of my time in of sort of in the country living with my parents. So I wasn't really keen on doing the whole social Dunlap's in my little small town because I think after about three swaps, I was already ahead of potential matches. But definitely in Melbourne, I don't I think everyone sort of over the idea of a person in my mind. So not many people are on dating apps anymore. I think people just really want to get back into actual real life dating. But I feel like it's been so long since we've done that. And, you know, people are still unsure how to go about it. [00:06:46][38.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:06:46] So when you say so, you've said that you're using dating apps less and less and you're more meeting people. Have you met someone out recently? [00:06:54][7.9]

Dave: [00:06:55] Was lucky enough to find someone recently in the end at the thirty one in Richmond. Yes. I was lucky enough to find someone willing enough to come back to my house. [00:07:07][12.4]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:07:08] Did any money get used at all in the process? [00:07:11][3.5]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:07:11] No, no, no. I'm not saying that you paid. But what I'm saying is, did you did you pay for drinks? Did you buy her coffee in the morning? Did you pay ultimata? Do you know what I mean? Like, did money get involved? [00:07:32][20.4]

Dave: [00:07:33] Yeah, that I am a good country boy at heart. So I paid for the uber to my house in Richmond, which is probably like a kilometer away, but also coffee in the morning. I think that's sort of the least you could do. [00:07:45][12.5]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:07:46] And so now just moving generally to you in your dating life, what's your go to on a first date in terms of paying? Do you like to pay for the bill? Do you offer to pay? But how do they pay? What's your vibe? [00:07:56][10.4]

Dave: [00:07:57] What's my thought? It's I think you go in there with the intention of paying. And I think it's just sort of those gender norms that have been instilled in me as a country lad. Again, I just I think it is a good impression, especially when you watch those shows first. It's always like you just want to avoid that awkward situation. You see where the guy doesn't offer the pay and that woman just absolutely barrels him off screen. I'm sorry, but, you know, I think it's going to be a bit more of the I think on the second or third day, you know, it's it's nice to sort of pay for something, you know, a couple of rounds back and forth. [00:08:35][37.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:08:35] So, Dave, what are some red flags that you would consider from the opposite angle? So a dude coming into it dating girls, do you have any financial red flags? Like if a girl just never offered to pay, would that annoy you? [00:08:48][12.5]

Dave: [00:08:48] I think when your partner or your potential partner is willing to, you know, share a few drinks or even pay for their meal shows that they're probably more interested than they otherwise might say. You know, it's also just tight, tight, tight. [00:09:04][16.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:09:05] How do you feel about splitting the bill? [00:09:06][1.4]

Dave: [00:09:07] And I am not splitting it. We I think it's I think, you know if you're going to go on a date, I think, you know, sort of if you can I think the best option is, you know, I had a few drinks earlier to sort of pay as you go. You get one round at the next. And then, you know, if you have dinner, then splitting it has it's just awkward I think a more fun game is sort of, you know, getting the waiter involved. You're putting two credit cards in a hat sort of thing to make a bit of fun. He's going to pay. I think that really livens up the situation. [00:09:36][29.5]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:09:38] So you and I both and you splitting. So good answer. Yeah, I, I think it's awkward and embarrassing and I don't want to do it. I'd rather pay. [00:09:46][7.7]

Dave: [00:09:47] Yeah. And I, you know, I always go always alcohol. Papageno, you just get the gelato on the way home. [00:09:53][6.1]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:09:54] Thanks so much Dave for allowing us to interview and ask you some prying questions. Makes me open with your answers. So Zoe, do you reckon that dating apps were more popular in Australia due to the coronavirus? [00:10:05][11.6]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:10:06] Definitely. I feel like people were bored at home and so they had to jump on it. [00:10:09][3.0]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:10:10] Yeah, and that is true. According to whinge, seventy percent of its users would be interested in going on a virtual date outside of the app. Based on a recent poll, unhinges also reporting a thirty percent increase in the number of messages being exchanged between users during the coronavirus. [00:10:25][15.2]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:10:26] Honestly, I'm not surprised by that. I think if I was single during coronavirus, I would have jumped on the. A lot [00:10:31][5.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:10:32] more definitely. And what age group do you think is the most popular on dating apps? [00:10:37][5.5]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:10:38] I'd say 25 to 35. [00:10:38][0.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:10:39] You're exactly correct, 25 to 35 covers over 40 percent of the age group of people on dating apps with the next largest group to be 35 to 45. Yeah, OK, that makes sense. And what do you think about gender? [00:10:53][14.0]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:10:55] I'd say. I want to ask you at motormen. [00:10:58][2.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:11:00] How much percentage to men, [00:11:01][1.4]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:11:02] say, 60 men, no go. You got 60 men, 40 women, [00:11:08][5.9]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:11:09] CLO's, 76 percent male and 24 percent female [00:11:14][5.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:11:16] pajamas [00:11:16][0.0]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:11:17] honor. And overall, there's one point seven million Australians using online dating apps at present. And the revenue in this sector is expected to grow from 35 million, which was in twenty twenty to fifty one million by twenty twenty four. So it's a huge industry. Now we're going to shoot across to get the different side of the story. We're hearing from a female. Her name is Georgia and she has a unique perspective because she runs her own podcast called the Date Podcast, and she is all about dates. Hello. [00:11:51][34.1]

Georgia: [00:11:51] I'm not sure if that's too much of an expert opinion, but I have heard a lot of that. It's been on a diet can talk about, that's for sure. [00:12:00][8.7]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:12:01] Have you ever paid for a dating app before? [00:12:02][1.3]

Georgia: [00:12:03] I have no. I mean, that hard work, they are a lot of time and effort. So I feel like I definitely know a lot of people that have I just paid for them. I being like it cuts out half the time makes it easy. Well, then you just have your matches up here, the ones that have already matched with you. So you're just filtering through and I guess selecting if you want that partner or not. So I feel good money and [00:12:27][24.2]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:12:27] yeah, you'd be the same, but you just have more access to the different people, [00:12:31][3.6]

Georgia: [00:12:32] see your matches, but only the ones that have already said yes to you. So you know that if you said yes, then you can start up a conversation. [00:12:41][8.2]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:12:42] All right. Really good. How do you feel about splitting the bill? [00:12:44][2.1]

Georgia: [00:12:45] Mm hmm. I feel like in talking to a lot of people, the dates, this is the ideal scenario, in my opinion. You going for drinks you pay for and they pay for. And if you're getting to a third round, it's a good day and five and you know, then you can just start feeling it at and probably pretty drunk by then as well. [00:13:04][19.0]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:13:04] So I [00:13:08][3.8]

Georgia: [00:13:08] don't know. Are you saying if the day is carrying on to something more formal, like dinner or an activity or KP tonight going. So that is what I love to do. I love just to split around or two. I feel like that's a really easy way to negotiate it because I don't know. I mean, my experience. Yeah, female, heterosexual and the classic dating of a guy, I feel like the still is that pressure that they feel like they need to pay for a date. I've definitely been on dates and at the end like, no, no, no, I've got this and it's all in my head. I'm kind of like arrogantly thinking, like, I probably earn more than you. I really I really I really probably would. I feel like I've probably got like two free dates and the first round is like a full dinner date. And the guy was like, you can grab the next one, which should be fair. I like, oh, that's a little play. But he was [00:13:59][51.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:14:01] the second one. [00:14:06][5.9]

Georgia: [00:14:09] The other guy who paid for a date only like it. I've been on a lot of dates about the only other guy who paid for a date. It was a guy I'd really like or want to pay. And I said, sure, again, he was like, You got the next one, which I'm like now. And this may a bit of a classic line to get a second date, but that was pre the wrona and then a little panini date. And we went for a walk and I bought us two coffees. So it really came out and not on top there. But but if a [00:14:37][28.0]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:14:37] guy were to be like, let's let this one, what's your reaction to [00:14:42][5.2]

Georgia: [00:14:43] feel like I am trying to split the bill? Like, Oh, I feel weird if there's a presumption that they're paying and that gets twenty, twenty one. Come on. [00:14:52][9.2]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:14:53] See I, I hate splitting the bill. I do not like this, but I would more than happily pay for the whole thing. Like I be like I'll pay for this one, you get the next one. But like the organism like do we split by like what we had. Is it a fifty fifty. What if I drank more. [00:15:09][15.9]

Georgia: [00:15:09] OK, ok. I say the nuances here. I feel like what you're talking about is in beautiful relationship territory. I feel like that is a lovely safe place. Well you know, multiple dates are occurring, but in this dating game of like date one or two, I feel like there's that awkward energy between parties and I don't know, I just really like a split bill because I think it's just like fear. Even you both coming to the party. Also dating should be fun and you shouldn't ever feel like you owe someone something. And I think that money sometimes has a little bit of that pressure on people. So I'm very much about the split bill. But I feel like in my experience or particularly say like hetero dating, I feel like there's been a lot of presumptions that the guys like I should pay and I'm just like, come on, why do we feel like we need to feel like that? [00:15:59][49.2]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:16:00] OK, so you're saying I'm coming from the luxury of being in a long term relationship to the [00:16:05][4.8]

Georgia: [00:16:05] absolute liberties that you can change your mind [00:16:09][4.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:16:09] about, it's going to be awkward. Anyway, let's just split the bill because it's already awkward. [00:16:13][3.5]

Georgia: [00:16:14] I was thinking about this earlier. Well, I before have gone into a day and I was smitten by this guy and he asked me out for dinner and I was like, I'm stressed about a dinner already. That's that's a long day. And it's expensive to get to a really nice restaurant. And I did. But I look back now. It's a strategy, if you will, of bringing cash with me. [00:16:34][20.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:16:34] Yes. [00:16:34][0.0]

Georgia: [00:16:36] Guess I knew it at the end of the day and he would whip out his card and then I would feel uncomfortable. So I just got cash and then that kind of like forced him to have cash. And he did [00:16:47][10.9]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:16:47] this sneaky, like, putting it back on and being like, well, there's the cash. I don't know anything. We're all done if we want. This is a squirrel, literally. [00:16:55][7.9]

Georgia: [00:16:55] And I've never had obviously had a guy do that. Like, I've definitely again gone like shattered a fistfight. Super happy to. Yeah. Never had a guy with that cash back. No, no, no. [00:17:03][7.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:17:03] So you said early on that you don't want the guy to pay necessarily all the time or straight away or there'd be an assumption that they pay because of the expectation that it might set up. Is that coming from a place where you have experienced that a guy has paid and then they've had an expectation? Or is that something that you think might happen? I think it's more an ego thing. [00:17:25][21.8]

Georgia: [00:17:26] I think that I don't know, it almost gives them like a sense of bravado at the end of the day. And I think I like I always say, it is almost, I guess, testing about that partner and seeing how they react, because I think I've dated people in the past. And, yeah, they definitely get like a sense of bravado and a sense of like hell. Yeah. You know, and this dude nonpaying and how great am I? And I just I'm kind of like, let's let's bring those guys down a little bit. Um, yeah. I don't know. I think that's maybe what what what frustrates me the most rather I guess than maybe the word expectation, I guess when that's maybe like alluding to to something else. But for me it's I guess yet a lot of ego that I'm just I don't know. I don't think we need to have the instances in which I am happy and more than happy for a guy to pay or vice versa. I will strongly encourage myself if that person has ever asked you out on a date, which is, I guess, quite indulgent and quite expensive, like I've had a guy take me out on a maybe a first or second date to the theater. Right. I'm not going. I'm not going. Sure. How are you going to pay her at that time? I don't even think I'd really go into the theater as an adult. And I was like, am I even going to like this? It was Lamees. And I was like, oh, that is like my one small caveat in which I won't feel guilty or like have that worry or feel like we need apply a bit of a game with the financials. I feel like if someone is ever asking you and they're blatantly wanting to take you on a super indulgent date, that's maybe a little bit one sided. That's real kind of leave my I don't even know if it's morals at the door, but that's what I'll be like. OK, fine. [00:19:06][99.5]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:19:07] You're listening to me love a podcast where we talk all things money and relationships. My name is Kamal and as always, I'm joined by my sister Zoe. We're going to take a short break now to hear from our sponsors. And when we come back, we're going to hear from Samantha Jane from the Husband Project. Now, we're going to throw to an interview that we did with Samantha Jane. She's a leading dating coach, relationship expert and matchmaker. Samantha is excited to come on the show to share her years of experience of her secret tips and techniques. She's learned and tried in her personal life about how to find a husband. Samantha Jane runs the Husband Project. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Samantha. Why don't you start off by just telling us what is the husband project and how did you get into it? [00:19:57][49.7]

Samantha Jane: [00:19:58] Good question. So the husband project is something that I developed quite a few years ago. I've been in the industry for 15 years and I noticed that there was a pattern that successful professional women were wanting to made eligible men. And I had no idea what to do. And I have this secret formula to know how to identify the right men, how to not attraction, feel that connection and get that ring on your finger. [00:20:22][24.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:20:23] So one of my questions for you is how much do you yourself consider finance in dating and how much do you encourage your clients to consider the financial position of someone that they're dating? [00:20:35][12.3]

Samantha Jane: [00:20:37] It's a really pretty it's a bit of an key question because, you know, in romance novels, it's not about the money. And you should just let the president and I are. And yes, of course. But when it comes to money, money is actually a big factor in compatibility and values in a relationship. So I developed a compatibility test many years ago and money I went to the dating relationship psychologist and money was a big factor because let's face it, it comes down to the types of holidays you go on, the types of lifestyle that you have, how much you like to go out, how much you like to spend, where you want to live, like all these factors, how you bring up your children if you do that. So money is a big factor. And even when going on a date with somebody who pays, it's a touchy subject. But it's really important to consider because if you are very financially savvy and you're with somebody who's a spendthrift, it's going to end in tears and you won't be a team. And it's all about being a team, building a future that you want to create wealth, [00:21:45][67.8]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:21:45] your personal stance on spending bills on the first day. [00:21:48][2.9]

Samantha Jane: [00:21:49] Oh, gosh, look, this is this is a topic I hear all the time. Look, it is so nice to even though you've got equal rights, it just feels so good when the man picks up the check and you feel really looked after and maybe you could go out and buy the ice cream or drink afterwards or whatever it is, contribute in that way. But at the same time, there are some really great men that are out there and that some of them don't actually pay on the first day. And there's still many men. Why? Because some of them just don't know that women like that. A lot of women out there are also like, you know what, I don't want you to pay because if he pays and he can expect something and that's not the case, it's all similar place. [00:22:33][44.3]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:22:34] But do you have any, like, funny or horror stories of, like people who have gone on bad first dates, like for your clients? Surely they've had a few bad first bad experiences with like paying all the money. Can you think of any off the top of your head? [00:22:47][13.0]

Samantha Jane: [00:22:48] It's a yes, I have the worst, actually. And that's what I think motivated this amazing woman to come and see me because she was on a date with this guy and he was ordering up big. He was ordering the bottles of champagne, all the food, and she's thinking, wow, this guy is really generous. She went to the bathroom, came back and he was gone. So the poor woman was stuck with the bill and she was just like, I can't believe this happened to me anyway. And it was a bit of a con artist, obviously, and he was known for that. You know, kind of that type of behavior in person before you actually get on the day don't have to be probably the last. [00:23:31][43.1]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:23:32] I couldn't do that. I could I would be so mad. Like, I don't even know how you'd conduct it. Like, would you chase him up after that? Like, what's your next steps? [00:23:41][8.3]

Samantha Jane: [00:23:41] I blocked her. I just disappeared. [00:23:43][1.5]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:23:44] What kind of tips do you give your clients in terms of how they can vet people that they might be dating or how they can avoid those kind of situations? [00:23:51][6.8]

Samantha Jane: [00:23:52] So traditionally, we don't know how to day because nobody teaches you. So you look at your parents and your friends and family, the movies, and you're, oh, that is how I feel about him. So what I do is I give you a formula, so I give you actual strategy. So it's for toxic man. I bought the alcohol you about the chairman of the Internet and the guy next door now Asia, those it's usually behavioral profiling and archetypes for each of those men has specific values. So if you're going with an Alpha Sharma, he's going to chase you so much until he gets you and then when he's got you. The next shiny thing is going to look for the next best thing, because he gets bored easily, he's your typical James Bond. You know, he's always around pretty women, successful women think I'm going to be the one that actually gets into it. And the important thing, even if it's a short time, I might say myself. But in the end, he was having a double upset balance to avoid. Then you got the alpha intellect, which most women love because you think he's so intelligent, he's so masculine. The problem with him, he has no empathy. So he will be very avoidant. So he'll chase you when he feels is at risk. He starts to self sabotage. And then you've got that the guy next door, which is the one that women go, he's the nice guy. He's really stable, but too much. It still he's not driven and he's boring. So you want to have a guy next door with an alpha or some guy next door with an intellect because that means he has that masculinity, but he also has the heart and he wants family and wants commitment. The guy still charmer like I can give you all this is great guys, which is the guy that's just going to run on your cartels and you'll be really attracted to him. He'll be like one of the girlfriends because he's really feminine. So you look at your strategy, you look at, all right, so what type of man is he? And then that takes away the emotion you look at him from in terms of or if he's this particular type, then projecting forward. This is the type of relationship I have. Is that the type of relationship I want? And if he doesn't provide that, then continue to be really focused on the Ren that you want and then do that much once you've got him a few emotional connection using feminine energy. And when are you going to sort it? [00:26:12][140.6]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:26:13] I'm just trying to understand a little bit more about the housing project because I did do a bit of research behind it. When do you kind of sort of encourage people to come and see you for your expertize? And then when do you think it's kind of like we've done it, we've found the perfect match go off into the world, [00:26:27][13.9]

Samantha Jane: [00:26:28] so sorry, compensation. You know, normally at the end of the time that they're like, all right, I'm right here. I've been online dating for years. It's not working. I'm not meeting the right man or I've been in a relationship and the men don't want to commit what do I do? And so I'm basically from the beginning, I'm very focused on how do I get the results quickly. So we work on the type of relationship they want, whether it's marriage, children, long term or getting their existing partner to commit or find somebody new. So we work while we work on the end game, which is that relationship. During that time, I offered the opportunity to help break me a little bit, limiting beliefs, any patterns, and I feel really confident I get them to expand their network. So what we do then is give them opportunities to speak to highly compatible people, men or women who will enrich their life. And then they can think, all right, well, I'll be happy with either one of these. So what I do is I give them a whole strategy. So we go back at the type of relationship they want, whether it's long term marriage, a family, whether it's getting up with to commit or just getting out there and meeting more people. So we work on an outcome. And then we went backwards and we and I look at patterns, any self sabotage, and I give them strategies to help them move forward with a plan. And during that time, when they've meaningful with that plan, I'm actually helping them feel really confident and also at the same time helping them meet more people and then realizing what they have to offer and realizing the opportunities out there. And then we narrow it down to, say, three people. And then from those three, there's only the one and only within, say, four to six weeks. They're really beautiful, pretty solid relationship that's going somewhere. And then by the three month mark is normally happy days like, all right, things are so good, things are going really well. But what I do is I also have online programs that they can listen to. So it reinforces everything that we've lost. So it's really fast tracking that results because everyone wants to meet someone quickly. We live in a well, we just literally swap three thousand people unless you go. It's not working. And the reason it's not working is how to use it first, if you know how to use the platforms, they work. [00:28:43][135.0]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:28:44] My question is, because I've never actually really used the dating apps because they came out when I was a bit younger. I think I was on it like at fifteen and I was like, oh gee, this is fun. But I've been with my partner for a few years now and I just wondered, paying for dating apps, I know that some of them have the ability to pay for it. Do you think it's worth paying for them? Do you think you get a better result out of paying for dating apps, or is it more just like it's a bit of a hack? [00:29:10][25.6]

Samantha Jane: [00:29:11] Well, really, it comes down to the types of dining out. Some of them don't have the opportunity to offer the free service. So I always recommend you try the free version. And if you're finding that it's whatever out of the. The best one and then eliminate the one that's not working and then try others and you know, whether subscriptions working for you or the free version, sometimes it doesn't really matter whether you've paid or not. Hey, what matters most is who is on those apps in your area. So some apps work really well in Sydney. The terrible thing about then it is it's like going to the local pub, the popular pub, you know, so you've got to look at where is everyone that's eligible in your area, out there, out there. But yeah, you have to go out there and find it. And that's the beauty of it. We could be proactive. [00:30:03][52.3]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:30:04] And you said earlier you gave us an example of a pretty extreme bad financial situation where one of your clients was essentially scammed out of it. Any smolla less obvious red flags that people can look out for in the initial stages of dating, that they might be either being taken advantage of or that they might just not be financially compatible? [00:30:26][22.7]

Samantha Jane: [00:30:28] Yes, definitely. So early stages of dating, especially with those toxic types of people. They will come in and I will show you is kiss and tell you everything you want to hear and you'll be thinking, this person's amazing, but you need to take a step back and listen to what they're saying about their exes. You need to look at how much credit they're living on. You need to look at whether they their lifestyle matches up with the occupation and, you know, just just use a bit of gut feel as well. Look around when you're going to the home. What's that like? What are they are they financially responsible or irresponsible? Because it's nice to be showered with gifts, but that could just be a love bombing strategy. Are you comfortable with that? Somebody that completely spends everything saying there was I am an example is one of my clients is saying as financial adviser, and he was really fast and she thought being a financial adviser, he was like really set with his money. And most of them are this particular person wasn't she went and bought himself some glasses, know Sunnis, and then she was able to Sunnis and then he was buying her holidays and buying all these things. She thought, wow, this guy's really earning stacks. But then she went to his home and it was all in a pretty ordinary place and all this proud she stuff is so. And then she still didn't look at that. And then she eventually started a relationship with him. And then she realized he was just a walking credit card, a bucket of debt, and then she had to hire me, pressured her to buy a house together and sell the house she had because it was her house with her ex partner. And he wasn't comfortable with that. But really, he just wanted to get his fingers on it. And so I realized early on that if someone's really a spendthrift, I mean, do they have the capacity to spend or are they just trying to love money and say, oh, look, look at all these keeps happening? [00:32:33][125.0]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:32:33] So you mentioned the phrase love bombing before. What do you mean by that? Because that's actually the first time I've heard it. Like, I think I kind of get it. But what do you what do you think is constitute as love bombing and like what are the signs of love bombing? [00:32:47][13.9]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:32:48] I've heard of love bombing, but I would really like to get Samantha's definition, so. Yeah. [00:32:53][4.3]

Samantha Jane: [00:32:53] Jim, good question. Narcissist love my love only feels so good because as soon as you meet this man sleeps on his horse, he sells all your problems. He cultivates you and his child, he takes away all your attention. He showered you with these incredible gifts and you've never felt so good. And you're wondering where did this man come from? And all of a sudden he becomes your wife. And then slowly you start to see less of your friends and your family and you become more and more isolated. And when you're in love with you, that's when the bomb goes off and he starts to pull away. And then he starts to tell you what's wrong with you say the love bombings, a strategy that narcissists used to captivate you, to mostly draw you in. And if you are not aware of it, you can get caught first if you're aware of it. And when you're dieting, you need to just stay grounded and just go, look, this guy's really amazing. I love what he's doing. But let me just see how things go for the next three, six, 12 months. Let me just see. He won't sustain it. [00:33:55][61.7]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:33:55] And so if your clients do they come to you? I mean, they may come to you at any stage in this situation, wouldn't I? Do you really say, look, I think this is what's happening? [00:34:04][8.9]

Samantha Jane: [00:34:05] Yeah, absolutely. A lot of a lot of people come to that because they've experienced narcissism, they've experienced abuse. They're very intelligent people. And you can be you can be smart. You could be somebody, but you could still be on the receiving end of coercion, like I've been there myself. And that's also where. Really motivated to go. All right, this is this is it, I need to show people out there what happens. So, yeah, you can be at any stage and it can happen. [00:34:36][30.8]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:34:37] What kind of advice would you give yourself now that you're in a happy relationship? What kind of advice would you give giving yourself back then when you either like experiencing maybe some sort of like abuse or like physical or mental financial abuse or like just trying to find a man as well? It doesn't have to be you of that just to try to find a partner. What's your big sort of advice that you want to give to everyone else like your general take away? [00:35:04][27.6]

Samantha Jane: [00:35:06] Just make sure you are your best fashion fix yourself before you hurt somebody else to try to fix you. And also, just just don't let anyone suffocate your attention. Take the time to actually look at that person. I met them. I want to step away. How do I feel? Are our values aligned? Could this be going to where I want to say things down a little. [00:35:29][22.4]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:35:29] Thank you so much, Samantha, for telling us all about what you do in the housing project and a few tips and tricks that we can take into place to really find the perfect person to spend the rest of our lives with. My big takeaway from that is to know what your objective is before going into any relationship. When I was studying communications, we had this one thing, this one like absolute God rule, and it was what you want out of the sentence. And that's what you should do, putting into like everything in life, like you just don't speak for the hell of it. And you shouldn't just date for the hell of it. [00:36:00][30.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:36:00] Well, for me, the main thing that I took away was Bay in a position where you're your best self and you're most comfortable in yourself, because if you're going out there feeling like questioning your self-worth or things like that, then you are probably going to find someone that doesn't that doesn't really appreciate you and treat you as well as you deserve to be treated. So you go in with the right mindset. [00:36:23][22.9]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:36:24] It's all about knowing your self-worth. [00:36:25][1.0]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:36:26] I really, really think it's so important to listen to how a guy that you first dated or girl that you're dating talks about their exes or talks about other women in their life. And if they're talking badly about the ex I call my ex was crazy or like they did this and that, then I would just be considering how they might then speak about you in the future. [00:36:50][24.2]

Zoe Moorhead: [00:36:51] Yeah, I think that's just a lesson in overall life. If someone's talking poorly about another person and that's more of a reflection on them than it is on you. If you've got if you're dating someone and they're telling you about how much they hate their ex, I don't think I think that's a huge red flag. It's not something you want to go around with every single day. Yeah, I [00:37:09][17.8]

Carmel Moorhead: [00:37:10] yeah I agree. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Meet Pay Love. We hope that you've enjoyed the shake up in the format. Please send us an email MPL@equitymates.com, and let us know we've changed our emails. We used to be Zoe or Carmel at equity markets dot com, but now together in one email address and pay equity makes dot com. You can also find us on Instagram at meet pay love and tell us what you think. Did you like the more casual and lighthearted episode? Did you like more of an interview style with our everyday person? Please get in touch with us as we love to hear your feedback. [00:37:48][38.0]

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