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Let’s get started, and have skin in the game

HOSTS Blake Cassidy, Craig Jackson & Tracey Plowman|22 November, 2021

Sponsored by Bamboo

We’ve covered the crypto assets you can purchase. Now let’s talk about how to get skin in the game. This episode covers exchanges, wallets and how to actually invest, as well as touching on research and things to consider before making an investment.

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In the spirit of reconciliation, Equity Mates Media and the hosts of Crypto Curious acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people today. 

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In the spirit of reconciliation, Equity Mates Media and the hosts of Crypto Curious acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people today. 

Tracey: [00:00:20] Welcome to the crypto curious podcast designed to help you navigate the dynamic world of cryptocurrency. Hello, my name is Tracey, and I'm joined by my mates, Blake and Craig. Hi, guys.

Blake: [00:00:31] Hi, Tracey, how are you doing? 

Craig: [00:00:32] Hey, it's great to be here. Episode five.

Tracey: [00:00:35] So let's get started. Now we've taught you about Bitcoin, Ethereum and the other crypto currencies, and you're ready to add these to your investment portfolio. You're at the crypto station to get in hands, and this is the episode where we'll explain how to actually get on board the train. But before we get started. Here's a reminder that you should never make an investment decision as a result of listening to a podcast like this, but rather undertake your own research and seek professional advice if necessary. 

Blake: [00:01:03] Yeah, that's right. Trace, as always, educate yourself. You know, I spent hundreds and even thousands of hours reading, listening to podcasts, watching YouTube to get my head around this space because it is so nuanced and everyone has their own, you know, varying opinions about what they think is going to do well. And just because of that fact, it's really important that you you read and listen far and wide to be able to develop, you know, your own thesis on the sector. 

Craig: [00:01:30] So in investing, it's important to think about risk tolerance, what you hope to get out of the investment. And crypto, as we all know, is very volatile like coins can drop 90 percent and then pump 100000 percent in small time frame. So this is just the world that we live in, and it's also important to consider your personal time frame. So, you know, for me, I invest with the 10 to 20 year horizon, but also I I use platforms where I'm just investing my pocket money to buy a lounge or a holiday. So, you know, all of these things are to be considered. I think Trace. 

Blake: [00:02:05] Yeah, that's right, Craig. Investing and trading cryptocurrencies is different than investing into other assets like shares or stocks. But there's also some similarities here. Some of the most important things that you're going to need to get started. Firstly, you're going to need somewhere to buy and sell your cryptocurrencies. And this is very different than how you would buy and sell stocks. Because when you buy and sell stocks, you need to go through a broker. And in the crypto space, we use exchanges and apps, and we'll get into that. There's also a lot of differences around the security in cryptocurrency. You need to store and manage your own crypto, whereas other investments like stocks and equities, you don't necessarily have to do that. That's what your broker does on your behalf. There's also a bit of a knowledge gap. Analysing crypto is very different than analysing companies, and there's a lot to learn in that space. And there are some, some key differentiating things that will get into it later on. And as always, whenever you're investing, it's important to have a strategy or a plan that's tailored to your risk tolerance. And you know, we don't just want to be investing here off the basis of our emotions. We want to have a plan and stick to that plan. 

Tracey: [00:03:22] Okay. Thanks, Blake. So we need to know where to get into the market. We need to know about security, we need to know some fundamentals and we need to have a strategy. So that being said, if someone has never purchased crypto before. Let's look at all their different options. There are a few different categories or ways to buy or sell crypto. Can you take us through a few of those blank? Yes. 

Blake: [00:03:42] No problem, sir. The most popular way to buy and get exposure to cryptocurrency is via a cryptocurrency exchange. And there's many of these, you know, here and abroad. There's also apps like savings apps and investment apps like the Bamboo app. You can buy your cryptocurrency in person, and you can also use an OTC desk or an over-the-counter desk if you're buying larger amounts. And of course, there is a fifth category that's not so popular, but you can buy cryptocurrency from cryptocurrency ATMs. Yeah, we all 

Craig: [00:04:15] have our own experience with these methods. I personally use apps which are more focussed on ease of use, not for trading, but more for saving summer to the macro investing shit apps like Spaceship or. Yeah, these are great apps where I can set up my investment strategy for the long term where I joined. Once I set my strategy, whether it's, you know, 10 percent of my paycheque and a dollar cost average into the market incrementally over time rather than dropping a large sum. And this really helps people like me to sort of stay consistent, and it's almost like you forget about what you're actually investing and then you check it six months later and you have enough to buy a trip to Bali. So that's what I love using those apps because it's just so easy to use

Tracey: [00:04:57] and never let out of the country. Yeah, so that's. Really light your set and forget. Okay, so that's what an app is, so Blake, do you want to explain what an exchange is for us? 

Blake: [00:05:07] Yeah. In its simplest form, an exchange is where people exchange cryptocurrencies for cash, and the exchanges are really designed for people to trade. So when you sell someone else's buying and when someone else is buying, you know you're selling these platforms built for traders. So people are interfacing with charts. You might have seen that on the news. These graphs that show the price movement and people are also interfacing with something called an order book where you put your order in, whether it's a buy order or a sell order. And it can be complicated and there's many great exchanges out there to use, and particularly there's some great ones here in Australia. 

Tracey: [00:05:47] So basically what we've got there is the stock market, except for crypto. 

Blake: [00:05:50] Yeah, that's right. But in Australia, you know, we only have one major stock market, whereas with crypto, there's, you know, many different exchanges that you can use in every one of them is kind of like their own little ecosystem. 

Tracey: [00:06:02] And no, and each one of those ecosystems is offering the user a different experience in some way or another. 

Blake: [00:06:07] Yeah, that's right. And you know, there are other ways that you can buy as well, not just through apps and through exchanges. You can also buy crypto in person. And this used to be a really popular way of buying cryptocurrency before exchanges were really good. They used to be have a horrible user experience, so you would go into a website called local bitcoins. You would meet up with somebody that the people had ratings and star ratings random, and sometimes it was dodgy. And that was how people used to buy it. And that's how many people still buy bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. 

Tracey: [00:06:40] Do you explain a little bit further about OTC or over-the-counter how that works? 

Blake: [00:06:45] Yeah, that's probably another key way that people get into the market and one that's not really spoken about very much. And generally, when people are buying your large sums of crypto, think about $100000 or more, then they don't necessarily want to be using apps or exchanges. They want a person to speak with to talk them through the process to make sure that they don't mess anything up with the security or the storage. So it is a big segment of the market, but but one that's, you know, not always spoken about. 

Tracey: [00:07:15] And something else that we didn't touch on there when you spoke about exchanges is these decentralised exchanges. Do you want to maybe talk about those ones a little bit further? 

Craig: [00:07:25] Yeah. So there's a range of decentralised exchanges where all you need is an a theorem wallet and some Etherium to interact with these exchanges. You like Uniswap, SushiSwap, and they're all similar to a normal exchange where they have their own user experience. They have their own capability, some of them have charts or books. And why these are really interesting is, you know, Uniswap is a decentralised exchange built on top of Ethereum. And, you know, they have 12 people working on their platform. And, you know, they overtook Coinbase, which is one of the biggest exchanges in the world by market volume. When Coinbase has about 500 employees. So I just think that sort of sums up the power of Ethereum and these decentralised exchanges, how they just automating a lot of what a normal exchange can do. 

Blake: [00:08:17] So just to just to recap, Craig, a decentralised exchange is one that's not owned by any company or individual. It's just a piece of code running on top of a theory and where people can can trade coins to one another. Is that right? 

Craig: [00:08:31] Yeah, that's right. And instead of, you know, using your I.D. and verification or a normal exchange, all you need on a decentralised exchange is your theory and wallet. So you know, the on ramps are a lot quicker and easier than traditional. 

Tracey: [00:08:45] And the good thing about these decentralised exchanges is they tend to get these unusual coins well before other exchanges, too, so you can find your your little gems on there also. 

Craig: [00:08:56] Hmm. 

Tracey: [00:08:57] OK. So we've talked about all the different options there, but what we're going to do now is really drill down and have a look at exchanges and what you need to be aware of before you actually start your journey. So Blake, do you want to take us through some points on what we need to look out for? 

Blake: [00:09:12] Yeah, it really can be a bit of a minefield trying to figure out which exchange to use and, you know, the different attributes that they have. But I'll just run through a quick list of some of the differences that you're going to find when you know you're on board with your first platform. So the first thing is that there's going to be a massive variation in the fees that you're going to pay. Some platforms charge 0.1 per cent and other platforms charge up to 10 per cent. So you definitely don't want to go to the wrong exchange because it can make a pretty big impact on your investment. Other platforms are very focussed on ease of use for people like me and you, Tracy, and then other platforms are focussed for traders, people who are professionals. So, you know, just when we're using a platform for the first time, we want to make sure that we're. You're interfacing with one that's, you know, really designed for us. The third thing is KYC, which stands for know your customer and kind of like a bank account, how you have to show your ID and your proof of address. You have to do this as well when you're signing up for an exchange. And it can take anywhere from an hour to three days. The function of this is really to prevent money laundering. So they can, you know, track if anyone's doing anything a bit dodgy. And the fourth point is that, you know, different exchanges offer different tokens. Some exchanges only have two or three and other exchanges have thousands. So, you know, often people end up, you know, signing up to several exchanges so they could get access to their favourite coins, depending on where they're trading. 

Craig: [00:10:46] Yeah, that's right. Like in all, those things should be considered when you are choosing an exchange. But also the exchange market is so competitive now that you know they're releasing new add ons and new features to really differentiate themselves from each other. So an example could be, you know, Binance now have a payment card where you can trade and use your funds to pay for groceries like it's really cool without ever leaving a Binance account. And you know, there's some other exchanges that have NFT marketplaces on there now, so it's really interesting to see how it's all evolving 

Tracey: [00:11:16] just means that there's a lot more to consider really, and to great tried and tested Australian exchanges to consider BTC markets and the independent reserve. So we've gone through what a number of exchanges are and apps and even, you know, in-person ways to buy crypto. And we've outlined the factors that we think are important and there's a lot to choose from. And everybody's got their preferences. So boys, what are your favourite exchanges or apps to use? 

Craig: [00:11:44] Yeah. For me, I really prioritise ease of use and user interface, so I obviously use bamboo as my savings are where I just set and forget, you know, go about my day and that just grows in the background. But I also use to use Binance. Binance tends to have a lot of coins that are supported and a lot of, you know, options where you can stake your tokens and they're constantly innovating. So those are the two that I use. 

Tracey: [00:12:08] Like, how about you? 

Blake: [00:12:10] Yeah, I primarily use SGX, which is more of a trading platform. It's actually a derivatives trading platform. And then for day to day use, I use the bamboo app for my savings and rounding up my spare change. 

Tracey: [00:12:23] And much like Blake, I use 40x for my exchange. I still use Binance, who I've had for a few years to get my cash into the market. So it's just easier for me because it's it's simple and quick. And if I don't actually offer that with Australian dollars, so Binance to get my money in quickly to FedEx, which I trade with and also out quickly. And then I use Key Coin, which is another exchange because I find lots of other little coins on there that the others don't offer, and it's usually jump on there quickly before anyone else. And then I use the bamboo app for my self-managed super fund, which which sits on there. When we come back from the break, we'll talk about storage and keeping your coins safe. But first, a word from our sponsors. So that's what we use, and there's a lot of options out there for the last four years, I've probably had anywhere between six and 20 different exchanges on my phone and on my PC, and I've slowly whittled them all down to just a couple. So be careful. Have a look around and take your time. Now that you've purchased some crypto, you want to make sure that you've done your best to keep it safe. Let's look at how to do this. Blake, do you want to give us the lowdown on what we need? 

Blake: [00:13:37] So this is a bit of a tricky bit and took me a little while to get my head around it. When I first started, it's quite different to shares where you know you don't need to store them. Crypto is kind of like cash, a digital cash, so you do need to hold it in a digital wallet in the same way that we would go to all our physical cash. And there's all sorts of wallets to store your cryptocurrency on, and they all have different qualities, kind of like the different qualities that exchanges have. And you can store your crypto on exchanges, but generally it's not advisable if it's a large sum. So you would want to manage your own wallet. And the first type and the safest type is called a hard wallet or a or a cold storage wallet. And basically, it's like a USB stick that you can still hear crypto on. And most people, you know, have longer term savings store decryptor on these hot wallets, and the two most famous brands are called Trezor and Ledger. And if you have a amount of crypto that would make a material difference to your life, then you know it's advisable that you use one of these. And the reason that they're so safe is that they're not connected to the internet. Once you take the USB stick out, no one on the internet could hack or steal your bitcoins. 

Tracey: [00:14:53] Like, do you think it's funny? I remember when someone was telling me about this in the early days and actually gave me my Trezor and explained this to me and said, Here you go. You know, when you get a large amount or when you put your bitcoins or serum on here, I said, Well, how do I keep this safe? What do I do with this now? And they're like, Well, if you really want to keep it safe, you go put in a bank in a vault. And I was like, what? So we're trying to go away from banks. We're trying to, you know, go away from this system. And then the best place to put it is involved in a bank. 

Blake: [00:15:21] That's certainly one place that you could put it in a bank. But you know, another place that you could put it is in a safe at your house a fireproof safe. The second most use wallet is a warm wallet, and it's kind of like your internet banking where it's on the internet. You can manage your crypto very much like you would manage your your day to day funds on your internet banking. There's a password and, you know, sometimes there's additional authentication measures, kind of like two factor authentication or via text message. And this is a very popular type. One of the most common form wallets is called Exodus, and it's really good for people that are getting started. And that's the kind of intermediate security level. And then there's like a day to day wallet called a soft wallet or a hot wallet. And that's something that you can carry around on your phone. You wouldn't want to have, you know, more than a few hundred dollars in there, kind of like, you know, you wouldn't want to have more than a few hundred dollars in your wallet and that's for paying for things and you're sending peoples and crypto, and it's really designed around ease of use. But the level of security is quite low, so it's generally recommended not to hold too much crypto in those in those soft wallets or those those hot wallets. 

Craig: [00:16:38] Yeah, that's right, Blake. But you know, these hard wallets don't come without their risks. You are responsible, you are your own bank, and this comes with a large amount of risk. There's this guy in Germany, actually, and he I don't know how, but he lost his Trezor, which had $220 million on it in the trash. And he said to the German government, You know, if you help me find it, I'll give you half. And I don't think he ever found it. But this is really this is really an important point because even for me, starting off in crypto, I got the thing where I got a ledger, put my assets on there, and then I actually lost my ledger for a week. I hid it from myself. I ended up finding it like with my shoes. But this does come with, you know, a lot of responsibility. So, you know, the all these when you consider it is research and backups is really important, but also what you touch on there. Black is a hot wallet when you keep your wallet on exchanges. Now this technology has gone leaps and bounds from when bitcoin was $500. Now there's, you know, custody providers, which pretty much specialise in keeping exchange assets safe. And, you know, so the most iconic exchange hack was a Japanese exchange called Mt. Gox, where I didn't even want to know how many now, but it was about 850000 bitcoins were hacked from that exchange. It was trading at $500 at the time. So I think the most important thing is just diversifying where you store your assets, 

Tracey: [00:18:07] so they have it easy to remember you've got your call. You warm and your hot wallets, for those like myself, you'll be keeping small amounts of crypto on you, select exchanges, so make sure to have your best password security set up on your PC and have everything covered with two face security. So two, if I means two factor authentication, this is when you were required to receive a secondary piece of identifying information, usually to your mobile phone, so you've finally chosen your exchange and you've been brave enough to get some Etherium. So how are you going to keep track of that portfolio? 

Craig: [00:18:43] You can keep track of your portfolio. I use an app called Blockfolio. This is where after I make a trade, I import it onto that app and it sort of keeps track of my profit and loss. This is a really easy out to use. That's what I use to keep track trace. 

Blake: [00:18:59] What are you to use? 

Tracey: [00:19:00] I actually had a couple of different ones and I change depending what I'm looking at at the time. But at the moment I'm using something called coin stats. But I'm trying not to look at my coins as much at the moment, to be honest. 

Blake: [00:19:11] Yeah, I can definitely understand that I don't actually use anything trace I used to use Blockfolio or similar to Craig, where I would be checking my portfolio every day and realise, you know, this probably wasn't the best thing for my mental health. And now, you know, I really don't have that many coins to keep track of. But what I do do is I do keep a spreadsheet of the trades that I make. So then at the end of the year, when it comes to tax time, I can, you know, figure out if I have any capital gains tax to pay. 

Tracey: [00:19:39] OK, so now you're ready. You've got your exchange, your portfolios ready. Securities up to scratch and you're tracking your coins. You've got everything you need to get your foot in the door. But before you go, there's a few other jargon terms that we need to get your head around. These are really interesting and form a big part of this space. You may or may not have heard these terms before. It's staking and lending. Blake, do you want to give us a little rundown on these two? 

Blake: [00:20:07] Yeah, for sure. So, you know, the industry is evolving in a very interesting way and in the same way that when you deposit your cash to the bank and generate an interest rate or a return on that, you can do the same thing on the crypto space and can lend out a crypto through platforms in a very safe way and generate a return on it. And similarly, staking, which is like a decentralised version of this without, you know, going through a company or a bank or an intermediary, you can just stake your coin and generate a return from it. 

Craig: [00:20:42] Yeah, this has been a really popular industry that's come up over the last few years. And, you know, it's turning into a really good alternative way of saving. Now the centralised finance platforms like Celsius and BlockFi, where you can actually lend out your stablecoins and get eight to 10 percent back per annum. And as we know my savings, you know, with I and J, and the returns that I'm getting on my savings are like one percent. Now I'm looking at BlockFi Celsius, I can, you know, buy stablecoin. Some of them actually have Australian stablecoins and earn between eight and 10 percent. So it's a really interesting way where the future's going, where people are putting their savings. 

Blake: [00:21:21] And what we're going to find is that these companies like Celsius and like BlockFi, are going to be the banks and the financial institutions of tomorrow, and they're really building the future of, you know, how we're going to manage our money, you know, for the decades to come. And it's fascinating to watch how they innovate and how they differ from, you know, the current financial system and how we currently interface with banks. 

Tracey: [00:21:47] And I think this staking and lending side of things is why the traditional finance industry is kind of popping their head up and taking notice right now because I mean, what can you get right now at the banks, you know, term deposit account, your one percent? I mean, that's why would you bother? That's madness. But look, there's probably a bit more to unpack on this subject, and we'll give it some more time, definitely in a future podcast. So let's leave it there for today. We want to know what you want to know about crypto specifically. Any questions from today's podcast? So send us an email at podcast at Get Bambu Io or follow us on social media. All those details are in the show notes below. And don't forget to write and review us and your podcast app, and that's it for this episode of crypto. Curious. So thanks for joining us today. I'm Tracey.

More About

Meet your hosts

  • Blake Cassidy

    Blake Cassidy

    Blake has a passion for technology and fell down the crypto rabbit hole while studying in Europe in 2015. He then started trading Bitcoins while living in China in 2015 and ever since then has been immersed in the sector. Blake is now the CEO of Bamboo which helps people take their first step into crypto currencies.
  • Craig Jackson

    Craig Jackson

    Craig developed an interest in crypto after hearing about Bitcoin at soccer training in 2017. Since going down the rabbit hole, Craig has endured the ups and downs of crypto, now working in fintech as the Growth Lead at Blossom. Craig enjoys learning about the upcoming innovations in the space and is keen to share them with the Crypto Curious.
  • Tracey Plowman

    Tracey Plowman

    Chief Operations Officer for cutting-edge cryptocurrency app, Bamboo; Tracey Plowman is among just a handful of women taking on executive roles in the digital assets space. Tracey is extremely motivated to encourage more women into technology and believes this can help to empower their investment choices and establish financial freedom. Tracey’s interest in cryptocurrencies was sparked, while working as operations manager for a digital investment fund. This fostered her passion for cryptocurrencies and trading in this new asset class.

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