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Industry Deep Dive: Fertility and IVF

HOSTS Alec Renehan & Bryce Leske|20 June, 2021

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Alec Renehan: [00:00:00] Bryce, on the show, we often talk about how Crypto curious, here we are. Oh, we are interested to watch this asset class develop, despite the fact that a lot of heat has come out of the market. Ailun stopped buying. Well, he hasn't stopped tweeting. He had a Baby Doe's song tweet earlier this week, so he's still toiling away. But look, there's, there are so many platforms out there. There's so much choice out there. We've had a look at a number of them. And we and when I say we, I mean equity mates, users, swift x when we want to buy crypto for our company, Treasury. [00:00:42][42.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:00:43] That's right, Ren. We have snuck a little bit of crypto onto our balance sheet here. It actually makes using swift x, Australia's fastest-growing crypto trading platform with over two hundred and twenty different crypto assets. So plenty to choose from. They have tiny spreads, low fees, and allow you to deposit via bank transfer, credit card or PayPal and Ren. The best news is, as you said, with markets a little bit lower than they have previously been. If you're looking to deputize into the water, Swift are offering 15 points of Bitcoin to every person who signs up by heading to Swiftx.com/equitymates for fifteen dollars of Bitcoin. [00:01:22][38.9]

Bryce Leske: [00:01:38] Welcome to another episode of Equity Markets, a podcast that follows our journey of investing, whether you're an absolute beginner or approaching Warren Buffett status, our aim is to help break down your barriers from beginning to dividend. My name is Price and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How's it going? [00:01:53][15.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:01:54] Very good price. How many ends on that? Ren quite a few. Yeah, I'm good. I'm excited for this episode. We've got another industry, Deep Dove. We're going to be deep diving on an industry that neither of us really have a lot of lived experience with. If we followed Peter Lynch's idea of investing in what you know, this is not an industry would be investing in, you're closer to it than I am. How well, you're closer to having kids. [00:02:20][26.1]

Bryce Leske: [00:02:21] True eyes. Finally, I'm closer. [00:02:25][3.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:02:28] So today we're going to be talking about the IVF industry, fertility, fertility. In vitro fertilization is what IVF stands for. It's been requested by a number of listeners. But we've kind of resisted because it's not something that we know a lot about. But we figured we would do our best. So we want to caveat that at the start that this is definitely not a complete industry deep dove. But we're going to give it our best shot before we do a bit of housekeeping. [00:02:59][31.0]

Bryce Leske: [00:03:00] Yes, we're excited to announce that we are going to be part of the inaugural podcast festival down in Melbourne. Neistat, Melbourne, putting one on for podcasters around Australia. We will provide more details. But pencil in a live show that we'll be doing in Prahran, Prahran Branch. [00:03:21][21.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:03:23] I lived in Melbourne. [00:03:24][0.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:03:24] Yeah, whatever. The suburb down there and it is the first of August sun. The first of August around four PM. Yeah, we'll be providing more details about Melbourne. We hear you. We're sick and tired of doing events just here in Sydney, so we are very excited to be coming down. Tickets will be limited. We will let you know about how to buy them, where to buy them, the price, et cetera, in due course. But pencil in Sunday, the first of August 4 PM. [00:03:53][28.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:03:53] Yeah, we know it's a Sunday, so [00:03:55][2.1]

Bryce Leske: [00:03:56] It will be busy. [00:03:56][0.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:03:56] busy. People may not be able to stick around for too many beers afterwards, but it would be great to say everyone great to have a beer with a few people. Bryce has given me the Monday off, so I'll be having a fever, [00:04:07][10.1]

Bryce Leske: [00:04:08] that's for sure. [00:04:08][0.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:04:09] But yet come out, say hi will announce more information about what we're going to do. But yeah, Melbourne Podcast Festival. Get around [00:04:16][7.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:04:17] it. Nice. All right. Well, let's get stuck in. So let's start with some establishing facts. There is no doubt that unfortunately, it seems that it's becoming more and more difficult for couples to be having kids over in the States. The stats show that one in eight couples struggle to conceive. Unfortunately, here in Australia, the Fertility Society of Australia estimates that one in six couples of reproductive age suffers from infertility. Yet only around 50 per cent actually seek medical advice. [00:04:46][29.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:04:47] And I think we know anecdotally a lot of the reasons why that's happening. People are getting married or forming partnerships later in life, trying to have kids later in life. People are working more, working longer, prioritizing careers. There's also a number of lifestyle factors that are just leading to a lower fertility rate. I was actually looking at a stat. There's a graph that stat Stasha is that the website is a statistic that sounds a lot, but they have the Australian fertility rate from eight hundred to today. In eighteen hundred, the average couple had six-point seven kids and today it's one point eight. Yeah. [00:05:31][44.5]

Bryce Leske: [00:05:32] As you said, many factors going into that. But yeah, it is, it's interesting. So a number of factors as well. Globally, the quality of sperm is declining with one out of three men aged over 40 presenting with sperm fertility issues and half have failed. Infertility cases have more sperm as an important contributing poor sperm. No more for us as an important contributing factor. [00:05:58][25.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:05:58] Yeah, so according to the pharmaceutical company Merck, who have invested heavily in this industry, infertility has a range of causes, one-third male issues, one third of female issues, and then the final third accommodation or unexplained. So there's a number of contributing factors here. But the long and the short of it is fertility rates are declining and medical science, I guess, is really trying to step up and solve some of these problems and help couples get pregnant. And there's this whole industry that's been created around the fertility industry and in particular IVF. And there are a number of listed companies that are now participating in that industry, and we're going to sort of break down what the industry is, what are the trends, and then talk about some of the companies that are trying to help couples solve this problem, because there are some interesting opportunities out there if it's an industry you're interested in. [00:06:57][59.1]

Bryce Leske: [00:06:57] Yeah, well, investors are starting to inject a large amount of cash into the industry. So let's start at the top and break down what IVF actually is in vitro means in glass and in vitro fertilization is the process of fertilization where an egg is combined with sperm outside the body. So the first child was successfully born after her mother received IVF and her name was Louise Brown in 1978. Yeah, in 2008, it was estimated that eight million children worldwide have been born using IVF [00:07:32][34.9]

Alec Renehan: [00:07:33] to just pause on that for a second. What's that? 40 years. Yeah, done that. That's right about that. Yeah. For 40 years from the very first child ever being born using IVF to eight million children worldwide born using IVF. It is an industry that has really come not out of nowhere. But it is grown incredibly quickly. [00:07:52][19.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:07:53] Yeah, absolutely. So in some European countries, two percent of babies born are due to IVF. That's about one in 50. If we move across to America, that number is one in 60, according to The Economist. And in 2017, Australia and New Zealand Assisted Reproduction Database found that one in twenty five babies in Australia is born as a result of IVF and a total of fifteen thousand six hundred thirteen babies were born using this method in twenty eighteen. So yeah, [00:08:23][30.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:08:23] it's Australia over indexers compared to Europe and America in terms of the number of children conceived with IVF. Here's a question for you, though. What's the number one country in the world? There's one country that over indexes Australia that that is meaningfully higher than any of those in [00:08:44][20.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:08:44] terms of babies born using IVF. [00:08:45][1.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:08:46] Yeah, babies as a percentage of total babies, babies born using IVF Canada. [00:08:51][5.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:08:53] No, I don't know, I guess kind of. I've no idea. [00:08:56][2.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:08:56] Denmark, one in 10, 10 percent of babies were born using IVF. Wow. Yeah, well, our born using IVF. [00:09:04][7.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:09:04] Wow. IVF is just one form of assisted reproductive technology, however. But we're going to kind of be focusing on this from an industry point of view today. [00:09:13][8.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:09:13] Yeah. In terms of the investment opportunities, they're all sort of blended. Like if you're in a fertility clinic, you're going to be exposed to IVF and the other treatments. So so that's sort of, I guess, a little bit about the history and where we're at in 40 years. We've gone from the very first child being born to a meaningfully sized industry and a meaningful percentage of children being conceived using IVF. So if we get into some of the numbers in Australia, one IVF cycle costs between nine thousand fifteen thousand dollars. So it's not cheap and success rates aren't as high as you'd hoped they would be sort of less than 50 percent. But I mean, look, for for a lot of these people, it's you know, for the people that are successful, it's a general success that wouldn't have come naturally. So, like, it is a pretty miraculous thing that science has been able to do. The person the doctor that did the first IVF child won the Nobel Prize. They go, yeah, really sad story. There were three doctors, a surgeon, a doctor, and a nurse. The doctor won the Nobel Prize. The surgeon and the nurse had died. And so because the Nobel Prize isn't awarded posthumously. Yeah, they didn't get it, but yeah. Yeah. Like massive medical breakthrough that we're talking about here. And I think that's pretty important. When we start talking about, like the industry and investing in it and companies, it's like just keep in the back of your mind that regardless of the financials, like [00:10:53][99.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:10:54] it's pretty miraculous. Absolutely. Well, speaking of industry, we're going to take a look at the size and a few other stats that are important from the investing point of view. But before we do, we'll take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. [00:11:06][12.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:11:07] Bryce, you're a man that moves to the beat of his own drum, actually literally moved to the beat of his own drum when you studied drumming back at uni. Yes, that is true. [00:11:17][9.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:11:17] Got booted out. Yes. [00:11:18][0.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:11:19] And after you study drumming, you had a short lived but highly successful career as a Canberra nightclub deejay. So you're all about moving to your own date. And that's great, because our sponsor to kick off today's episode is all about banking to your own beat. And that is Virgin Money. [00:11:37][18.5]

Bryce Leske: [00:11:38] That's right. Ren banking with Virgin money has never been more rewarding. You can earn rewards on your everyday spending and pay zero monthly fees with the Virgin Money Go transaction account [00:11:48][10.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:11:49] and with points, perks, and epic experiences tailored to you. You can manage your money easily on the go, smash your savings goals, get money fit, and be rewarded for it. So, Bryce, are you ready to bank to your own beat? [00:12:03][14.0]

Bryce Leske: [00:12:04] I'm ready to go back to my own Bayit Ren Bank to your own Bayt Virgin money [00:12:08][4.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:12:09] terms and conditions and monthly criteria apply. Now let's get into the show. [00:12:13][4.0]

Bryce Leske: [00:12:15] So Ren at an industry level globally, we're looking at fourteen point two dollars billion in 2020, that's up just shy of two billion in the last sort of two years. In 2018, it was worth twelve and a half billion. And one projection expects it to reach almost thirty-four billion by 2020. So if I do the quick math on that, that's a cost. That's a compound annual growth rate of six and a half percent over the next seven years. Yeah, you would you wouldn't shy away from that. You wouldn't have second projection though, has it at about thirty six and a half billion us by 2026, and that is a compound growth rate of 10 percent. So a varying growth rate projections here. But nonetheless, it's an industry that had some pretty strong growth behind it. [00:13:05][50.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:13:05] Yeah, so that's globally. And right now, Europe is the leader in terms of market share, I guess where most IVF happens, that starts out as it is now. But the Asia Pacific is expected to leapfrog Europe and in the late 20s be about half the market. So right now, the Asia Pacific region is worth about seven billion and it's projected to be about 20 billion by twenty twenty nine. So meaningful growth there. I think in some ways that number is tied to expectations around health tourism. Yeah. In Australia. Twenty eighteen. It was a seven hundred and nine million dollar industry and it's projected to be about a billion by 2020. So comment annual growth rate of four and a half percent. I mean, there are faster growing industries, but it is it is growing, I think. But I think what's interesting here is not so much the overall industry growth, because that's tied to a number of population factors around, you know, fertility rates, people's desire to have baby stuff like that. Like you're not going to say hockey stick, exponential curve in some of those demographic questions that would really drive this industry. But what's really interesting in this industry is what's happening within it, like improvements in medical technology that are improving pregnancy rates and birth rates, things that are making patients lives better, better ways to separate sperm, eggs, all that stuff. And we're seeing a lot of venture capital money flow into space as a result of people trying to make the industry better or improve technology. Pitch Book, which looks at venture capital investments, recorded 178 million in Vaizey, invested in fertility product businesses or fertility science businesses in twenty seventeen alone. Yeah, so a lot of venture capital money flowing into space. So that's a notable trying to keep watching because there will likely be more companies than we talk about now listing or getting taken over by listed companies in the coming years. [00:15:09][123.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:15:10] So let's start to have a look at some of the trends that are unfolding and themes in the industry. We mentioned at the start that only sort of 50 per cent of couples seek treatment and that I would assume most likely because of the price. Yeah. So the first sort of theme that's unfolding is that there's a massive underserved market here. And Money magazine have suggested that as the industry consolidates, obviously economies of scale get stronger and as such, IVF becomes cheaper, which really means that there is potential to really increase the penetration of IVF and, you know, double the number of cycles that are performed in Australia each year. So that's only a good thing. [00:15:50][40.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:15:51] Yeah, so that's the world as it is now. There's 50 percent of couples that could be getting help that currently aren't. On top of that, there are expectations that the market, the total addressable market will grow over the coming years as people wait longer to have kids. So we touched on the total fertility rate before and how it's dropped meaningfully. You know, I said from 1800 to now, but even from 1960 to now, three point four, one in 1960 to one point eight three in 2020 in Australia. So people are having less kids globally. The same things happening, although not as stark. Between 2008 and 2018, the global fertility rate dropped from two point five six to two point forty two, and it's expected to continue. So a lot of those, I guess, macro factors that are driving people to have kids later, no one expects them to about, you know, the shift from a rural to urban society, increased participation in the labor force, postponement of marriage, lower marriage rates, all that stuff people expect to continue. And the second order effect of that to be increased demand for IVF services. [00:17:01][70.0]

Bryce Leske: [00:17:03] We're seeing increase insurance coverage in the industry, which is driving down prices as insurance companies negotiate and increase the usage. [00:17:11][8.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:17:13] So the next. The next. Friend or I guess time to keep an eye on, is that there's a lot of companies that are developing new forms of genomic testing and companies really investing in that to give parents more information and doctors more information. And people expect that to continue to drive uptake in the market. [00:17:32][19.1]

Bryce Leske: [00:17:33] So Ren, as you already alluded to as well, that there's a bunch of private equity moving in. So let's have a look at some of the large players. A company over in the United States, a big private equity firm called Lilly Equity Partners, brought into an Atlanta fertility clinic with plans to launch a 200 million dollar network called Prelude Fertility. So sort of big money going in there to Associates, a global PR firm bought into the Colorado Center for Reproductive Medicine, another private equity firm called MT's Health. Investors over in New York again created Ovation fertility chain and then the extended fertility, which says it's the first practice in the US dedicated solely to freezing eggs open in Manhattan a year and a half ago. It's backed by New York private equity firm North Pache Capital. So plenty of other examples, but it's clear that there is now a lot of cash flowing into this space. [00:18:28][55.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:18:29] Yeah, if you take a step back and I mean, we'll get to companies later, but what you'll find is that a lot of especially in the U.S., not so much in Australia and actually the US and Europe, a lot of these companies aren't publicly listed. It's not like you have big fertility conglomerates that roll up a whole bunch of fertility clinics and then list instead. It's a lot more private clinics or tied to hospitals. And like other health care providers that are not listed and private equity, as they always do, sniff out an opportunity and saying there's an opportunity to roll up a whole bunch of these clinics, we expect the market to grow and we're going to try and get in there first. And so you just rip through what, for example, the private equity firms that are moving heavily into the sector. But that's really the industry dynamic at the moment, that it feels like it's still early days in some respects for the industry. And so private equity say an opportunity to achieve economies of scale and really take a foothold in the industry. [00:19:29][60.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:19:29] Absolutely. And Ren, which is a great one, we're continuing to see medical breakthroughs in the space in June 2018, and Aussie scientists developed an artificial intelligence tool called IVI for the identification of an embryo with the best chance of pregnancy. And I mean, the only thing is that such technologies help to increase the success rate of IVF pregnancies [00:19:51][22.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:19:52] included this one just because we've got to celebrate Australian scientists. Yeah, I don't think they get enough credit. You know, as we invented wi-fi. We CSIRO invented that membrane around hydrogen. You know, we're doing stuff. We're just doing so much. [00:20:08][15.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:20:09] And how many scientific journals are you reading? And they could be getting credit where credit's due. Well, I [00:20:14][5.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:20:14] don't think the scientific journals are where they should be getting. I think it should be front page of The Daily Telegraph. [00:20:19][4.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:20:19] Oh, yeah. A lot of things should be front page of The Daily Telegraph. [00:20:23][3.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:20:25] And then one more, I think trend or theme to keep an eye on is that so we mentioned that insurance companies are embracing it more. Insurers like company plans, insurance plans in the US are embracing this, but companies like Google, Apple, Facebook are now offering like benefits to their employees, like freeze their eggs, freeze a sperm, stuff like that. So, I mean, cynically, you could say that it's because these companies want men and women to work longer and not drop out of the workforce to have kids. And I think there would be a lot of truth to that cynicism. Allegedly, reportedly. My own opinion. But it's also it is good that they are offering these benefits to couples that want them. It's better than just creating an expectation that you work and then people finding out that you late. [00:21:17][51.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:21:17] Absolutely. So before we rip into some of the risks, as well as companies and key players in the industry and how you might be able to invest, we'll take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. [00:21:26][9.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:22:34] So with all the investments Ren, we need to talk about the risks. [00:22:37][2.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:22:38] Yeah, and I think that's particularly relevant for the IVF industry or the fertility industry because, you know, we've spoken about how it's this medical breakthrough. We've spoken about how it's grown and now it's a meaningful percentage of pregnancies and babies born across most continents, especially the major like Western countries. We've spoken about how there are all these trends and continued medical breakthroughs that seem to indicate that the industry will grow. But none of that means it will be a good investment, and I think it's really important to stress there's a big question with all of this around, is this industry scalable? Is this treatment scalable? Is this industry investible? Because when you start to have fertility clinics at scale and when you start to operate, then like a private equity run business where you're just optimizing for cash flow, you start to have some pretty adverse outcomes. So the ABC in Australia did a big report on the IVF industry and they were speaking about how patients felt like they were just a number and that they weren't given great care and that a lot of them had to go to independent clinics or like different clinics to actually get underlying reasons for infertility actually identified and diagnosed and treated. So this is for me, it's just a really important caveat for this industry, but also for a lot of industries, like there can be great industries that can be doing amazing things. They can be helping a lot of people. There can be money in the industry, but it may not make sense to invest in like a scaled listed business that's operating in that industry. And for me, that is a big question here, like. Do does the biggest player win in this industry? [00:24:29][111.2]

Bryce Leske: [00:24:31] Yeah. I couldn't tell you the answer to that. [00:24:32][0.9]

Alec Renehan: [00:24:32] Well, no one can. [00:24:33][0.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:24:33] Yeah. So let's take a look at some of the companies and key players that will start domestically and we're talking listed at this stage. So Aussie-listed companies, you've got Virtus Health. The ASX ticker is VRT. I'm hoping I pronounce that right [00:24:50][16.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:24:50] that you got about it. Right? [00:24:52][1.5]

Bryce Leske: [00:24:53] They got to thank you. They're the world's first IVF provider to go public. They're the largest IVF provider here in Australia with 43 fertility clinics. Australia has thirty six of those. They have one over in the UK, three in Ireland, one in Singapore and a couple in Denmark, which you'd expect they might have a few more given the numbers over there. [00:25:17][23.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:25:18] Well, maybe in the future. [00:25:19][1.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:25:19] Maybe in the future. The second one, Ren, is Monash IVF group ASX Ticha IVF. They got twenty-seven clinics and three service centers, Australia, Malaysia, and they also have plans for more southeast Asian expansion. Yeah. [00:25:36][16.1]

Alec Renehan: [00:25:36] So if we pause there, there are two I guess like pure-play IVF or fertility clinics, stocks. There's one more. So Heliostats ASX, HLS do you remember primary health care. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's now called Helix. I knew that ileus. Yes. [00:25:53][17.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:25:54] I don't know why they did that, [00:25:55][0.9]

Alec Renehan: [00:25:55] but I think they sold off a business that was [00:25:59][3.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:26:00] their primary health care business. [00:26:00][0.9]

Alec Renehan: [00:26:01] Yeah. Maybe like a hospital I think. Probably like a hospital business or something. Right. That's me speculating, but I'm pretty confident they sold off a business because after they rebranded, they sold off a business called Helios Primary. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Helus, if you read like Motley Fool three IVF stocks, which is an article that I did read, that they will mention the three that we've touched on, Veritas, Monash, Heliostat. But with Helios, you have to be careful because I went into its most recent set of results. Here's the breakdown of its revenue by business sector. Seven hundred million dollars from pathology, two hundred million dollars from imaging. Forty million from day hospitals and IVF. [00:26:47][46.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:26:48] Yeah. So if you're looking for a pure play, IVF helixes, not the one. [00:26:52][4.1]

Alec Renehan: [00:26:53] Well, yeah, the IVF industry could triple [00:26:56][2.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:26:56] and it's still not its largest. [00:26:57][1.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:26:58] But if Helios is pathology, business goes poorly, like that's what's going to drive the results. Yeah. So you just have to be really careful when you're reading some of those articles about out there, about like these stocks will give you exposure to this industry because there's a lot of companies that will have exposure to certain industries, but it won't be a meaningful part of their overall company. And so it's not them going to drive the stock price. Yeah, so here but Helios, just to round it out, has IVF clinics in Australia. So if you look at those numbers versus has forty-three sorry. Forty-three globally. Thirty-six in Australia, Monash IVF has twenty-seven, the majority of which are in Australia, Helios has four in Australia. And then there's a number of independents. But it's not a massive industry and it's pretty heavily fragmented. Yeah. [00:27:48][49.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:27:49] So there is another way to play the industry Ren and that is to invest in the suppliers. So we've got an Aussie-listed supplier called a Memphis's. Its ASX ticker is M m. It created a device called Feliks and it sorts sperm by quality and size. So that is one way that you could it could play this if you wanted to. Rather than go direct to the actual IVF centers, you can play the supply side. [00:28:19][30.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:28:20] And then in terms of other suppliers, there's like device makers and those health more general health company suppliers enlisted in Australia like the Fisher and Pickles, or are they listed on New Zealand or Australia? Do you want to do that? Yeah, but again, it's like what's the percentage of their business that's exposed to this industry compared to just more general health supplies, hospital, stuff like that. So Price is just looking it up. [00:28:50][29.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:28:50] It's definitely New Zealand. And yet you listed [00:28:53][3.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:28:54] there, you got listed. So that's Australia. There's not a lot of listed companies in Australia, but what you'll actually find is there's not a lot of listed companies globally in this sector. Yeah, in fact, I was trying to look for fertility clinics that were listed overseas. I couldn't find anything. And I think that's probably a deficiency of my own research more than the fact that none exist. But the closest I could find was the massive pharmaceutical company Merck, New York Stock Exchange ticker. MRK is investing heavily infertility treatment centers, but again, I've said it before and I will say it again as a percentage of their business. How much is that? [00:29:36][42.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:29:37] Yeah, exactly. Well, to continue on the global side, Ren, there are a number of suppliers, so there's one called Pro gun. [00:29:45][8.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:29:46] And I'm going to I'm you know, prior to all of these and we'll see how Price pronounced. [00:29:51][4.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:29:51] And I'm just going to do a one hit one [00:29:53][1.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:29:53] one hit one time. [00:29:53][0.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:29:54] All right. So per gynae, the Nasdaq ticker is PTG and why it's an insurance play in the space vitro life. It's listed in [00:30:05][11.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:30:06] Sweden, [00:30:06][0.0]

Bryce Leske: [00:30:07] Sweden, Stockholm. The ticker is a V it ah. It's a supplier of equipment into the industry group of companies. Nasdaq C sorry, New York Stock Exchange say, oh, it's an equipment supplier as well. Matear on the Nasdaq NTIA is involved in genetic testing along with invite. I invite you in. New York Stock Exchange and NATCA involved bioscience on the Nasdaq in InVivo, treatments for patients with infertility. And then there's Eterna is entires. Its ticker is a Z. S, and it's listed on the... [00:30:51][43.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:30:51] I think that's Canada. [00:30:52][0.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:30:52] Canada, TASSI. I think so, yeah. It's involved in treatments for women's health among a portfolio of pharmaceuticals. [00:30:59][7.1]

Alec Renehan: [00:31:01] Yeah. T.S.A., Toronto, Toronto Stock Exchange Loss Company, AZN. It's actually got, you know, in the eye and the A is like joining us. Yeah. I don't even know that it's called, but they've got that in their name. Okay. How do you pronounce that. [00:31:15][14.2]

Bryce Leske: [00:31:16] Yeah, Eterna, [00:31:17][0.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:31:18] Eterna, no, like the ANC together. [00:31:20][1.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:31:20] Yeah, it's a long story short, there's not a lot of opportunities to invest in publicly listed companies directly in the space. [00:31:31][10.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:31:31] Yeah, yeah. And because a lot of the companies that you just listed there globally, IVF is part of like a conglomerate approach. So I think if if you're looking at pure play IVF, you're probably looking in Australia. Yeah, but again, this is the right health care play to look at. You apply IVF or just more generally on a lot of the factors that we spoke about above applicable for more of the industry, you know, like increasing health care, health care coverage and insurance and like all that stuff. So, yeah, yeah. Like medical breakthroughs. Like those are themes that if we did an industry deep dove on, like cancer treatment. Yeah. A lot of those things would still apply. Yeah. So they're probably the two key ways to invest in the market. You can look at pure-play IVF plays. There are a few you can look at more like conglomerate approaches that have IVF exposure. If we talk about investing in the industry rather than specific companies, given the fact that there's not a lot of listed companies, there's not any ETFs, that we could find that like a pure-play fertility or IVF ETF maybe as the industry matures a little bit, that might come into play. But it feels like it's too early really in terms of the scale of listed companies that you need to build an ETF around it. So you're probably looking at investing in individual companies. One other way that you could look at investing in it is looking at the private equity players that are investing in the industry. Some private equity companies are privately listed. Did I say privately? Yeah, some private equity is publicly listed. But again, portfolio approach like KKR, I'm pretty sure is listed. But if I were investing in IVF, it would be one tiny sliver of your massive business. Yeah. So it feels like a pretty unsatisfactory way to talk about investing in the industry. But yeah, I think if you look at the share prices of a lot of these companies, you'll see that I don't want to like say it is or isn't a good investment. Obviously, we're not allowed to say it is or isn't a good investment, but the share prices of a lot of these companies tell the story. And the story is that they have not had incredible returns since I listed. They're doing incredible things for couples that I want to have kids, but that doesn't make a good investment. [00:34:00][148.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:34:00] Yeah, well, Ren, that does bring us to the end of our industry. Deep Dove, if you would like us to have a crack at a particular industry, feel free to hit us up at our contact at equitymates.com, were on all the Sociales as well. We have a huge list of industries to get through. So happy to add yours to that and we will slowly make our way through it over the next decade of podcasting. But also a reminder that equity mates, everything we do here is free. We do have five shows and one way that you can really help us out is by leaving a review and a rating on the podcast app that you're using. If it's possible, we would certainly appreciate five stars. If it's anything less, just take it up with us directly. We do try and respond to all feedback and appreciate it in all the ways that you send it. So please keep the feedback coming. We love giving a shout-out to those that do leave a review. And this one came from Lufti Big Chuppah. He says that he's glad we have finally gone podcasting full-time. Hopefully, it means that we'll be sticking around for a while. He loves the banter and all the advice on which stocks to pick, although he's only kidding because we know it is general in nature. [00:35:13][72.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:35:13] To be clear, he wrote that in the review. That was the price that he made at the end. [00:35:17][3.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:35:17] Yes, yes. But thank you. Love to big shopper. Leave us a review. It certainly does help. Don't forget to check out our other shows. Comedian V Economist, Meet Pay Love, You're in good company and Get started investing. Plenty going on here at equity mates media. We're having a great time and again, any feedback is always welcome. So Ren we will leave it there. Yes. Don't forget the live showdown in Melbourne. We've also got some a continuation of live shows. The industry acts all-access industry deep ties with steak here in Sydney. Too much to talk about. So keep your eyes on our socials and emails and we'll keep you updated. [00:35:17][0.0]

[1965.1]

More About

Meet your hosts

  • Alec Renehan

    Alec Renehan

    Alec developed an interest in investing after realising he was spending all that he was earning. Investing became his form of 'forced saving'. While his first investment, Slater and Gordon (SGH), was a resounding failure, he learnt a lot from that experience. He hopes to share those lessons amongst others through the podcast and help people realise that if he can make money investing, anyone can.
  • Bryce Leske

    Bryce Leske

    Bryce has had an interest in the stock market since his parents encouraged him to save 50c a fortnight from the age of 5. Once he had saved $500 he bought his first stock - BKI - a Listed Investment Company (LIC), and since then hasn't stopped. He hopes that Equity Mates can help make investing understandable and accessible. He loves the Essendon Football Club, and lives in Sydney.

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