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Expert Investor: Tom Piotrowski – Key Investing Lessons From Years In The Markets

HOSTS Alec Renehan & Bryce Leske|30 October, 2020

In this episode, we sit down with Tom Piotrowski, a renowned Market Analyst at CommSec, and a highly respected figure in the finance industry. Tom is known for his expert insights on building an investment portfolio, debunking common misconceptions beginners have about the sharemarket, and sharing valuable lessons from his conversations with some of Australia’s top CEO’s in his Executive Series.

In this episode, Tom shares his thoughts on the key pillars to building a successful investment portfolio, the biggest lessons from the COVID-19 pandemic, and his take on the Australian stock market. Join us as we delve into the mind of Tom Piotrowski and learn from one of the most knowledgeable voices in the finance world.

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Bryce Leske: [00:00:57] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast that follows our journey of investing. We break down the world of investing from beginning to dividend so that you can hopefully make some returns. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my Equity Mates Ren. How's it going? [00:01:09][12.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:01:10] I'm very good. Bryce can't wait for this episode. We've got one of the most known faces in finance. Yes. And I would argue the best known beard in finance on the show. [00:01:20][10.1]

Bryce Leske: [00:01:21] Yeah. It is a pleasure to welcome Tom Piotrowski to the show. Tom, welcome. [00:01:24][3.5]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:01:25] Nice to chat, fellows. I was waiting to hear who was going to be, I thought was someone interesting. [00:01:29][4.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:01:31] Look, we are excited to have you on. As Alex said, you've got a bit of a cult figure in the finance space, particularly among our group as well. A number of our audience have reached out to see if we can get you on the show. So we're pretty keen to get stuck into your journey and finance. And a few things more broadly about the markets for those who haven't come across time before. He is a market analyst at CommSec, runs a bunch of their executive series with CEOs, among many other things. So we'll get stuck into that in a bit. Ren over to you to kick it off with the game. [00:01:59][27.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:01:59] Yeah. So, Tom, we do like to start with a bit of a game. We call it overrated, underrated, and we'll throw out a few themes, a few different asset classes that we may not otherwise get to ask you about in the interview and get your thoughts on whether they're overrated or underrated. And so we'll start at home and our major index in Australia, overrated or underrated, the ASX 200 index. [00:02:21][21.9]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:02:22] I suppose what you're really asking me is like, you know, you're not necessarily asking for a quantitative value in terms of its writing. It's just the qualitative response. So, look, I think it's you know, this is our home share market index, so it could not be overrated enough. It's this is our equity market. It is the companies that are home grown and that we invest in and that make up the fabric of our investing lives. I suppose you could never, never overrate it. [00:02:51][29.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:02:52] Nice. What about if we move to more international waters, the S&P 500, overrated or underrated? [00:02:58][6.7]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:02:59] Well, again, you know, it's a similar sort of response. You're talking about the measure of the top 500 US organizations in the world, one of the world's most important democracies, if not the most important democracy. So it is very difficult to overwrite that type of market. This is an example of an index that has generated wealth for people and families and businesses over a long time. So it's a really important part of the financial universe. [00:03:30][30.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:03:31] So tell me, if we move to an asset class that is much beloved by many Australians, overrated or underrated, the Australian residential property market. [00:03:40][9.1]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:03:41] It's a fascinating discussion when it comes to Australian residential property because it is always on the tip of everybody's tongue. Yeah, for a number of reasons. You know, baby boomers recline like basking cats. When you talk about residential property, they have so much of it. You know, millennials just have a perennial itch about, you know, when they will be able to make an impression on the property market for the first time. So it gets discussed a lot, but probably with with with good reason. So is there a writing in the middle? [00:04:15][33.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:04:17] Yeah, yeah. [00:04:18][0.6]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:04:18] It's probably underrated as well because it's so revered in the psyche of Australian society, I suppose, and [00:04:25][7.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:04:26] now an industry that we're both in and one that is often confusing, I guess, for our audience. But interested to hear your thoughts. Overrated or underrated? Financial media, [00:04:35][8.9]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:04:36] again, is one of the conduits by which the average person has a sense of what's going on in investment markets. So, look, it's quite important to as a vehicle for informing people. So it's probably underrated. I suppose it's all about the way that the message is delivered, I suppose. And I think it's wonderful that both you and Alec Bryce are, you know, on this journey of trying to help people out in terms of understanding more about this world. It's probably something that hasn't been done in your demographic. In my memory, you know, it tends to just be a much older male crew that does this. I used to be young when I started, but, you know, it's great that you're doing this for a group of your peers. So I would say underrated [00:05:28][52.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:05:29] Bryce just wanted to get that question in to get a compliment out of you. So he's always beaming broadly on the other side of the studio now. So, Tom, an asset that has been particularly interesting during this Covid period has been gold, so overrated or underrated gold as an investment option, [00:05:49][19.4]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:05:50] as an investment option. It's a fascinating construct, right. Because this will come up quite frequently in our chat. This afternoon is that, you know, whenever you have interest rates or to have interest rates at these levels effectively zero to negative around the world, you know, you're effectively debasing the value of currencies and it's all about hard assets. And under those circumstances, gold has become increasingly important in that respect, not only as the idea of gold itself, but also in terms of the importance of hard assets. So I'd say it's on the right at this stage. [00:06:28][38.7]

Bryce Leske: [00:06:29] And then finally, Tom, an asset class again that has been pretty divisive and controversial over the last couple of years, overrated or underrated Bitcoin? [00:06:38][8.4]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:06:39] Well, it's interesting that you've got those two side by side gold and bitcoin, because, you know, one of the earliest forms of exchange in societies was, you know, when kings or Caesars used to, you know, imprint their visage onto a piece of gold and then it would be used as an exchange of value. Right. That has been with us throughout history. And now we're moving into an era which is defined by bits of code. It governs the way that we transact. We're increasingly beginning to transact. And there is a lot of discussion about what digital currencies mean as far as the future is concerned. So I think that we're very much at the beginning of this journey when it comes to digital currencies. And it's along the lines of what I said before. You know, those first days where monarchs and what have you used to imprint their insignias on a bit of gold and that would be the currency in that area. Bitcoin is just at the beginning of that journey, I suppose, and it represents so many fascinating conversations in terms of what it means for governments and central banks and the like. So, yeah, I'd probably say crypto currencies are a little bit undervalued at this stage. And so, [00:07:53][74.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:07:53] Tom, we could go deep on that conversation, but I'm going to pull out of all of us. But we're here to go deep on you, so we'll refocus. And we love to start by hearing about the guests that we have on background. We and especially we like hearing about the story of their first investment. We find there are some good lessons or some good stories that usually come out of that. So to kick us off today, can you tell us the story of your first investment? [00:08:19][26.1]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:08:20] Obviously, you know, you've given me a bit of a heads up in terms of some of the things that you'd be asking me. So I actually thought quite deeply about this. And what I was left with was that the relationship between time and capital. Right. So when I was younger, you know, I grew up in the country. You have a fair bit of time on your hands. And, you know, for some reason, I just understood that there was a relationship in terms of the quality of your life between, you know, what you could pay for and what you had to sort of beg your parents for. So I was trying to get as much financial independence as possible at an early age. So I realized that with the abundance of time on my hands, I could use that to, you know, do odd jobs for people around the neighborhood. And that would be that they'd pay me for it. So that was good. So I save that money up and I bought a lawnmower eventually and I'd sort of go around and mow people's lawns and, you know, you'd have the jump on any competitors if they didn't have their own lawn mower. So that was probably my first real investment in my own time and in my own assets. [00:09:26][65.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:09:26] Nice. I think year six was when I started Leske lawns. Leske is my surname. But then that came crashing down pretty well, not pretty quickly. But when one of my mates got a hold of the fliers that I had posted around my neighborhood and printed about a thousand copies of them and stuck them all around the school, it's it soon became very embarrassing that I was pumping out lawns for everyone and ended up doing it for my mate and his parents while he watched me on from the front lounge. so anyway. [00:09:54][27.3]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:09:55] what kind of a savage was it? [00:09:58][2.2]

Bryce Leske: [00:09:59] I know [00:09:59][0.2]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:10:00] he is still in contact with this animal, [00:10:02][2.2]

Bryce Leske: [00:10:03] unfortunately. Well, I don't know. [00:10:05][1.7]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:10:09] well, the thing is that look, you know, and that's the thing about young males in particular. It's all about trying to bring as much embarrassment to your friends as possible that, look, you just got to stay strong through those episodes, Bryce. And, you know, you would have had the respect of many, many parents around the neighborhood. [00:10:29][20.0]

Bryce Leske: [00:10:30] That's the thing. That's what matters. Right. [00:10:31][1.4]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:10:32] And, you know, that doesn't hurt. [00:10:36][3.7]

Bryce Leske: [00:10:37] So, Tom, as we mentioned at the start of the show, you are a market analyst at CommSec. Are you able to sort of briefly just give us a bit of a background into how you came to be doing what you're doing? It's always interesting to hear that story. [00:10:49][12.5]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:10:50] So I've been here for a long time. Actually, I've been here for 20 years. Which Is like quite chilling to hear myself say that, so that has been the bulk of my work journey, I suppose, as far as my work career is concerned, but it's been a fascinating one from that vantage point, just by virtue of what you're tasked with looking at every day in terms of the investment markets and talking about them and all of the events that accompany the economic narrative. You know, in my earliest days, I remember being at work because I used to work the evening shift, so I'd work into the early morning and I'll never forget and nor would anyone else who ever saw the World Trade Center tragedy. And just trying to understand that from a human perspective and then seeing everything else that accompanied that was, you know, so it's a rare opportunity that you have to be able to try and, you know, join all of those dots together. So that's what I try to do here most days of the week. But, you know, before that, I'd spent time as a trader and as a broker. And the journey of that, you know, which inevitably starts on either trading desk or in the back office, you know, writing out trades, making sure that things balance up at the end of the day, all of those things that you probably have been reduced now because of their impact on technology. But they've historically provided a valuable entry point for young people who are interested in that sort of thing, because they were quite menial tasks, but important because they reinforced the values of making sure that a book was adequately balanced. At the at the end of the day, that risk was measured properly, that all of those conversations that you were a part of, you know, albeit at a very junior level, just in terms of being relied upon. But, you know, you were able to populate your mental universe with all of those things that are the foundation of of markets and risk and price and all of those things. So along the way, I worked with some extremely talented and intelligent and brilliant people. And that was humbling and a great privilege to be able to be in that position as a young person. You know, people that taught you not only about the work environment and the markets, but also about being a decent human being as well, which is not what people would necessarily associate with the financial markets. But, you know, you spend a lot of time with people, you know, in quite stressful environments and, you know, before Covid, you know, sort of, you know, all around the desk and you would, you know, spend more time with these people than your families one way or the other. They would have quite significant impact on your life. [00:13:34][164.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:13:35] So, Tom, through all of those conversations and experience and through your near 20 years at CommSec, have you developed a personal investing philosophy? [00:13:45][10.2]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:13:46] Look, it's not not necessarily a personal investing philosophy, but the best investment philosophy is one where you take a long term view, because under those circumstances, what you're able to do with the benefit of that time frame is you can enjoy yourself or inoculate yourself against the inherent volatility of markets and price movements. So then you are able to focus on fundamentals like the quality of an organization through its management, the people who make up the intellectual property of the organization, the ideas that they have, the systems that they have that the organization is based on. And then it just comes down to the very simple idea of after you've paid the bills that are associated with running your business, how much money do you have leftover which you can either reinvest into your business or return to your investors? So it sounds quite simple, but it is a challenge when you go into a stock market and try to pick apart all of these businesses. But it is the best and proven approach to making money over the long term when it comes to invest in companies. It's not rocket science. It's not anything that gets reinvented over time. All of these concepts are ages old. And regardless of whether or not you're applying it to an industrial company that's been around for a couple of hundred years, or whether or not you're applying it to an organization that's just floated yesterday, you know, these principles apply to all of these organizations. [00:15:26][99.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:16:48] So, Tom, we've just heard about your background and have played a bit of the overrated, underrated game, let's get into a few more, I guess, detailed topics. Obviously, Equity Mates is all about the investing journey, particularly with a focus on the start. And, you know, you've got years of experience in the industry, having spoken to many, many different people as well. And we'd love to get your thoughts on what you think is some of the key pillars to building an investment portfolio. [00:17:12][24.1]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:17:13] Again, when you hear people talking about the financial markets or particularly the stock market, you know, there's that element of gambling about the conversation. You know, I mean, like if you had a conversation, the barbecue, you know, inevitably someone say, oh, you know, that's just a horse race and that type of thing. And so it really comes back to trying to exact as much control as you can over a set of very fluid variables. And so, like I said before, you know, the most important variable is time. OK, and that is fundamental to all investments and everything that we do. So when you give yourself the greatest time frame, that is when you'll be in a good position. So, you know, that's why it's important to start early in the investment journey. Any number of companies that are extremely valuable now that were just a fraction of that value, 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. But it's a matter of finding those brilliant companies and trying to understand what impression that they're going to make over the course of the longer term. So, you know, a bank, a biotech like CSL, you know, Woolworths, they're the sorts of organizations that are important, I think, in the start of an investment journey, ones that you can trust for the long term. Okay. Have them as the foundation of your portfolio might be, you know, might be boring. But these are, you know, I mean, everyone's got Warren Buffett quote. But, you know, one of the things I suppose it's applicable to me or not, but, you know, Warren Buffett used to be a very famous investor in Gillette and he used to say, you know, I love to go to sleep at night knowing that every American male in the country is growing his whiskers at night and he's going to shave them up in the morning. [00:19:08][115.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:19:09] Yeah, well, you don't. Yeah. You really let him down. [00:19:11][2.1]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:19:12] And I believe that that's I don't know why that just came to mind, but it did. But I suppose within that quirky quote is extraordinary wisdom. Right. It's, you know, organizations that rely on that repetitive aspect of human nature. It's very fundamental to the way that we live. If that is an organization that is well-run, that has the right people in charge of it, has the right philosophy in terms of rewarding investors for their support of the shares. You know, your wealth will grow over the longer term. It's easy to kind of just follow your nose at the age of wisdom, if you know what I mean. But it becomes a cliche for a reason, because I suppose it works. So that's the thing that I would encourage people who are new to the share market is that, you know, as important as anything else is your psychology and your mental approach to things, your expectations. You know, if you can get a rain on nose and look out over the course of the longer term and don't you know these markets as a gambling device, then you'll be well served, you know, be consistent over the years, put away the money, invest in the right in those high quality companies over the space of 10 or 15 years. You'll be really pleased with the outcome. You'll really be satisfied in terms of what you've been able to achieve in terms of the growth of your finances. [00:20:44][92.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:20:45] I suppose that's great advice and definitely is a good reminder for everyone, even if they're not just at the beginning of their journey. It's very easy to get caught up in the day to day noise, but it's that long term thinking that really makes the difference. [00:20:58][12.8]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:20:59] I know it sounds a little bit beige and it's not electrifying, but there's a fundamental truth to it or a value to it. So that's the point that I would make, I suppose. [00:21:08][9.0]

Bryce Leske: [00:21:09] So we want to just touch on some of the major impacts of covid obviously one of the more intense time of our investing journey and something that a lot of our audience certainly wouldn't have experienced in terms of a market reaction before. What have been some of your biggest lessons and perhaps some of the major lessons that you've learned from the CEOs that you have interviewed through your executive series? And just to the those in our audience who haven't come across the executives series before. It's a series of interviews that Tom does with a number of CEOs from many of the publicly listed companies that we're familiar with. So certainly recommend going and checking that. [00:21:47][38.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:21:47] Probably has the best access to CEOs of anyone in Australia. [00:21:54][6.6]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:21:55] they just take pity on me, that's all. [00:21:58][2.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:21:59] Well, maybe we need to play the pity angle more to get some of money. Yeah. [00:22:01][2.7]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:22:02] If you grow a beard and look like a like, you know, like you live under a bridge, then it's not without its costs. So you have to put up with a lot of social isolation and run the risk of your partner leaving you. [00:22:17][14.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:22:19] So, yeah, if you can perhaps just share maybe some of your biggest lessons and or some of the biggest lessons that you've learned from some of the CEOs that you've interviewed in relation to Covid and I guess markets. [00:22:29][10.8]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:22:30] Yes, I suppose the easiest comparison that you have to what we're navigating at the moment in terms of the market volatility was what we saw during the GFC around 10 years ago. So that uncertainty is on a similar plane. The difference obviously being that one was a financial crisis, but not just the financial crisis, one where the heart of the banking system was under threat from a range of issues. But the fact that you had a liquidity issue in medical terms, it was like the financial markets were having a heart attack and things had to be done extremely quickly to reassure investors. But not only that, just make sure that the financial corpuscles in the economy were being fed the way they should be by central banks, governments and all that. So that's what we saw in the GFC. That was important because it gave us some form of a playbook when it came to the impact of the pandemic. But the obvious difference is the fact that this was a health crisis that had been created, a financial crisis. So the big difference was that the health of the global financial system was a far cry from what we saw 10, 10 years ago because of the legislation and the initiatives and, you know, the efforts to make sure that banks were well capitalized. All those sorts of things meant that the global economy was in a better position to navigate what we've dealt with in the covid-19 pandemic, but still the uncertainty in terms of managing a pandemic that is without precedent. And I think that expression, I don't think we've ever heard the word unprecedented use more in human expression than we have in the last nine months. So what you understand, when you're able to compare the two events side by side, I suppose, is the need to act quickly on the part of governments and central banks, the need to speak lucidly and with authority when it comes to, you know, central banks and governments and the various authorities that represent an important part of the fabric of the financial landscape. Because ultimately, these voices that reassure us about the durability of the markets and economies and everything that's associated with that. So I suppose what was reinforced for me was the value of liquidity when it comes to spending initiatives from governments, the value of central banks talking in reasoned tones about the moves that they are undertaking, whether it's cutting interest rates, providing liquidity to different parts of the economy through different facilities. You know, all of those things are imperative. And it just reminded me of, like, how lucky we are to live in societies that are governed by these institutions. It's easy to pick fault with important institutions in our society, but they are there for a reason and they are what allows us to live, you know, these incredible lives that we enjoy in a developed economy and democracy. I suppose, you know, without those leaders and without, you know, these people in important positions who wake up in the morning and all they're thinking about is like, you know, what can I do today to get the listing ship back on an even keel? [00:26:07][217.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:26:08] Yeah, you're right. That's the word unprecedented has never been used more [00:26:12][3.9]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:26:12] annoyed with myself for having, you know, but it is without peer. [00:26:17][5.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:26:19] Yeah. There are so many aspects of this that has been unprecedented. Obviously, the speed of the decline then the government response from through, both from the actual like fiscal government spending and then also the monetary policy from central banks and the unbelievable amount of quantitative easing we've seen, especially in the US. And then also to use the the unprecedented word, again, the unprecedented rally that we saw from the. Twenty third of March onwards. How did you think, you know, I'm interested, you know, you've obviously got access to a number of unbelievable analysts that Comsec that would have been watching all this very closely. How did you think about the speed of the decline and then the speed of the resulting rally after March twenty third? [00:27:04][45.0]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:27:05] It took your breath away. It really did. I mean, that sell off had our own market down by 40 per cent at its worst levels. But those moments where you are saying, you know, the structure of whatever it is that you're in, you know, start to bend and behave in ways that are unfamiliar and uncomfortable. It would be like a, you know, being on a roller coaster where your safety harness feels like it's coming undone. It's that kind of feeling when you think, OK, this is now at a bad stage and you kind of there's this almost something in our nature that expects something to come to the rescue. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think at that point when the market eventually got traction, it was a combination of things. You know, it was obvious that authorities were working in unison around the world. It was obvious that, you know, the important economies around the world, their governments were also responding in the right way. I'm quite apolitical in my thinking. So I actually think that the Australian government has done a great job in terms of, you know, deploying all of the resources that they could in a short space of time to buttress our economy and our markets against the uncertainty that we were dealing with in the early part of the year. So but I suppose, you know, when you haven't seen this sort of thing before, you know, you can never underestimate the impact that a central bank will have on a market when it opens up all of its taps and decides to fill the bath, if you know what I mean. And that's part of the reason why you saw markets around the world rally the way they did because you saw interest rate cut to the quick, extraordinary efforts. And markets just love that sort of liquidity. So, you know, to be down by, you know, six or eight per cent or whatever it is today in year-to-date terms, having been down by about 40 per cent and not knowing so much several months ago, that's a bit of a triumph. And it's really, again, a testimony to the way that economies around the world can organize themselves and work in unison with institutions. And you can't underestimate that. That is that's the foundation on which these markets are built. These are the foundations upon which you buy something and you can expect the value of whatever it is that you buy to still be there many years down the track. They are all philosophically linked. [00:29:47][162.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:29:48] So, Tom, in terms of the long term impacts of Covid on the markets, you know, the markets have absolutely rallied and it's a little hard to understand how everything is intertwined with the central banks and the impact that's having on the markets. Yet we're seeing some pretty incredible economic or underlying economic data that just doesn't correlate with how the market is performing in terms of, yeah, the long term impact of covid, in your view, will we return to, you know, the industries of old or are we now seeing a complete shift in industries that will thrive longer term in industries that we essentially really need to steer clear of? [00:30:26][38.4]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:30:27] That's a great question, Bryce. And this has been a common refrain around the themes that have been pulled out of the pandemic. Nothing new has necessarily emerged as trend. What you have tend to see is an acceleration of ones that have been either in the background or reasonably prominent in the foreground. It's just meant that those trends have been accelerated with some pretty breathtaking speed. So, you know, the most obvious part of that picture, if you if I'm to use an analogy that you can see, you know, the fundamental to the industrial revolution was the way that you had the railroads built around countries, you know, being America, the US, Europe, whether they were the linkages that allowed economies to grow in part. Okay. So to use the digital equivalent of that, you know, since the late 90s, we've had the equivalent of those railroads built in digital terms. But you can't see them. You can kind of understand them in terms of the way you transact. You know, today you get your phone out, you order a pair of converse high tops from your favorite shop. And if it's. It might be down the road or it might be in Chicago in a couple of days later, it turns up on your doorstep, right. The technological infrastructure behind that has been built over several decades. Right. But we're now at a point where it is commonplace. That's just like the fabric of our lives. But then, you know, that all has to be driven by something. So, you know, Amazon Web Services, Alphabeat, you know, they provide the sort of organizations, Alibaba, you know, they all provide the spine for the way we live our lives in that respect. So, you know, those organizations have become further entrenched in that respect. But then you've had, you know, a whole bunch of other organizations who have been able to build a digital technological footprint for their organizations over recent years. And that investment has been rewarded because as we have been separated from each other, from each other and isolated, but we've still been able to function without devices. You know, these organizations have been able to flourish and in that respect. But, you know, that's one thing that we kind of know about. But we are in the midst of another important investment sematic that collides in a couple of ways. You know, ESG investing, which is, you know, based on a more ethical approach to investing in industries that are sustainable on a variety of levels. But it really speaks to our humanity. You know, that's an important trend that continues to gain pace and has been increasing in its prominence. And the other important theme, I think, is one of the decarbonizing of the economy. We've only just started in that journey. And that will be an important theme that continues to play out over the course of the next century as an imperative. So there will be many opportunities from an investing perspective to capitalize on that idea. [00:33:47][200.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:33:48] Yeah, there's a lot of really interesting and really big themes. We're just going to pause here quickly for an outbreak. Tom, if listeners hear a bit of that, again, it's because Bryce has been unsuccessful in trying to sell Equity Mates to sponsors. All right, so, Tom, we've just Covid off on covid both what's happened this year and then some of the potential longer term impacts and implications of covid. We've mentioned a couple of times that you host this executive series where you speak to some of the biggest CEOs and executives of publicly listed companies in Australia and for people who maybe aren't familiar with the show and they want to go and review some of them, I want to know to any of those interviews particularly stand out for you. Do you have any that lost in your memory is maybe the best CEO you've interviewed or the best interview you've had with one of those executives? [00:34:40][51.7]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:34:41] I suppose it's like asking who's your favorite when it comes to your children? So what I think is remarkable when it comes to these individuals is that, you know, they are so devoted to their lives as corporate leaders. The fact that, you know, every waking moment is devoted to building a better organization and their passion from that perspective, that's the sort of thing that really interests me, you know, the commitment at so many levels. So, you know, there are some remarkable human stories in terms of where people have come from to get to the top of the corporate tree. And I think that's always the wonderful aspect of a story. It's not the station that you occupy. It's, you know, what you have done to get there and the quality of human being that is delivered into that space, you know, because it's I think it's all a failure unless you're a decent individual. So that's the most important thing to keep sight of when you're on on that journey of self-improvement to make sure that there aren't any other casualties that you have to take in that context. [00:35:56][75.1]

Alec Renehan: [00:35:57] Yeah, yeah. Well, look, we won't make you choose between your children, but I used to work at Coles, and while I no longer work there, every time you interviewed Steven Kane of the Coles say, I noted how impressed I was by him. So maybe Equity Mates listeners can start with Steven Kane, the Coles CEO, and go from there. [00:36:16][19.3]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:36:17] Steve is a wonderful individual right, because every time we've spoken, you know, it's his accessibility and his humanity which is really on show. You know, Coles is a massive organization, the level of detail that he's able to go to. And this is common among all of the CEOs, you know, that they can they'll tell you what color bucket is in the store and, you know, at the Bondi Junction Shop in many respects, I'm using that as a metaphor. [00:36:46][28.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:36:46] I want you to ask him that next time he comes on the show. [00:36:48][1.9]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:36:49] But I think, you know, again, and Steven's a wonderful example of the humanity associated with, you know, corporate leaders these days, he really cares about the people that worked hard for the organization during the pandemic and just a thoroughly decent human being. [00:37:06][16.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:37:07] We've reached the end of our time and we want to say a massive thank you for joining [00:37:10][3.6]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:37:11] us so quickly. I know [00:37:12][1.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:37:12] it has [00:37:12][0.2]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:37:13] for only five minutes. [00:37:14][0.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:37:15] And there was plenty of rubber Dollars that we could have gone down there. So we're going to have to get you back on at a later date to go a bit deeper. But for people that want to follow you and watch you work or read your work, where's somewhere where they can jump online and find out more about you. [00:37:28][13.9]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:37:29] Just come and visit CommSec DOT today and there'll be more than enough there. You'll be sick of me by the end of ten minutes. [00:37:37][7.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:37:37] Now, we do like to end these interviews with a quickfire final three questions. So we'll get stuck into those. Now, the first one is, do you have any books that you consider must read and these can be investing or otherwise? [00:37:50][12.2]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:37:51] I just think it's important to read just that journey of trying to know a little bit more each day. So be a book of poetry, a book of like how a piece of machinery works, you know, just anything that makes you stop and think for a moment. I think there's that there's great value in doing that. So I don't have a favorite book. That's what I do. But, you know, fiction, nonfiction, just all of it. Any fertilizer that you can use, your imagination is helpful ultimately and just, you know, expand on your frame of reference to understand what it's like to walk in the shoes of others rather than just your own. [00:38:32][41.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:38:33] And that's one. I like the fertilizer analogy as well. So the second question is outside of CommSec, we should say, what is your [00:38:40][7.4]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:38:42] point that you put that caveat on it? [00:38:44][2.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:38:44] Yeah, yeah. We'll take that one as a given. What are some of your go to sources for investing or financial information? [00:38:49][5.5]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:38:50] Do love Bloomberg, but that's I suppose that's a work thing. But, you know, if you're not in the financial markets, you can really do yourself a favor by having a look at Bloomberg. It's not only a good. You source when it comes to, you know, topics of the day, it's just it's the value of financial information it contains is just as awesome. It gives you an opportunity to learn about a lot of markets. [00:39:13][22.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:39:14] Nice one. And then the final question, if you think back to your younger self when you were saving up that money and buying that first lawnmower. What advice would you have for younger self? [00:39:25][10.2]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:39:25] You know what? I know he wouldn't listen. So there's my point. [00:39:30][4.2]

Bryce Leske: [00:39:30] buy a ride on. [00:39:32][1.8]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:39:34] You know, they are very expensive. Back in my day, that would have been funny looking. I probably saved more money than you spend. [00:39:43][9.4]

Bryce Leske: [00:39:44] Easy, easy piece of advice to go out and something I think everyone can relate to. So, Tom, it is been an absolute pleasure having you on the show a long time coming. So we would love to get you back to dig deeper on many of those topics as well. So maybe we can line something up in the New Year. But again, we've thoroughly enjoyed it. I know our audience will certainly get a lot out of what we spoke about today. So thank you very much for your time. We very much appreciate it. [00:40:07][23.1]

Tom Piotrowski: [00:40:08] You're both very kind. Thank you for your generosity and patience and indeed your time and all the best to your audience. Good luck. . [00:40:08][0.0]

[2199.9]

More About

Meet your hosts

  • Alec Renehan

    Alec Renehan

    Alec developed an interest in investing after realising he was spending all that he was earning. Investing became his form of 'forced saving'. While his first investment, Slater and Gordon (SGH), was a resounding failure, he learnt a lot from that experience. He hopes to share those lessons amongst others through the podcast and help people realise that if he can make money investing, anyone can.
  • Bryce Leske

    Bryce Leske

    Bryce has had an interest in the stock market since his parents encouraged him to save 50c a fortnight from the age of 5. Once he had saved $500 he bought his first stock - BKI - a Listed Investment Company (LIC), and since then hasn't stopped. He hopes that Equity Mates can help make investing understandable and accessible. He loves the Essendon Football Club, and lives in Sydney.

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