Expert Investor: Jessica Amir – Best & Worst Performing Stocks During COVID-19

Bryce: [00:00:57] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast where we help you learn to invest in 45 minutes or less. We break down the world of investing from beginning to dividend so that you can hopefully make some returns. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. [00:01:10][13.3]

Alec: [00:01:11] I'm very good. Bryce very excited for this interview. Where back in the studio live with our guest. Yes. It feels like the coronavirus restrictions are slowly lifting. Yes. And it's great to be back here in person with everyone. [00:01:23][12.1]

Bryce: [00:01:24] Yeah, I think first guest post covid-19. So apologies if we have had a guest in here completely forgotten about it. But anyway, keen to continue with our expert Investa series, as we always do. And it is our pleasure to welcome Jessica Amir to the Equity Mates studio. How are you? [00:01:40][16.6]

Jessica: [00:01:41] Oh, good. Thanks for having me. Bryce and Alec, my words. [00:01:44][3.5]

Bryce: [00:01:45] So before we crack into it, a bit of background for Equity Mates community. Prior to joining Belder act, Jessica was the head of news and content at Finance News Network, where she developed detailed research and content on financial markets. Previously, Jessica held roles at Money Management, Prime seven, Win News and ABC News. She's a qualified financial planner with extensive experience at firms including AMP, Commonwealth Bank and Suncorp. So plenty of experience here [00:02:14][28.7]

Speaker 3: [00:02:14] in the studio right here. [00:02:15][1.4]

Bryce: [00:02:17] Look, we're looking forward to unpacking some of the work that Bill Direct has been doing, looking at what has been a popular buy for us during the Covid period. So looking forward to unpacking that some of the best performing stocks and luckily a couple of them are in our portfolio. [00:02:32][15.2]

Alec: [00:02:32] Yes. One that you're obsessed with. [00:02:34][1.8]

Speaker 3: [00:02:36] We'll get to that later. [00:02:36][0.4]

Alec: [00:02:37] Before we do that, just we like to start with a guy we call it overrated, underrated potentially. It should be called overvalued, undervalued. But it's where we throw out an index, a topic that's hot in the finance community and we get your thoughts on whether it's overrated or underrated. So you got four point in. Okay, so we'll start local, overrated or underrated, but probably should be called overvalued or undervalued. The ASX 200 index [00:03:03][26.1]

Jessica: [00:03:03] underrated and my reasoning, so 14 percent of all time highs, which is why I reckon it'll bounce up 14 per cent and get back to that. The US has already bounced back and they're in positive for the year. We've seen unprecedented government support, a central bank support, completely unprecedented bond buying, never like we've seen before, which puts new money into the market. Restrictions are easing, as you boys pointed out, and there's lots of new money going into markets. So underrated. ASX 200 [00:03:33][29.5]

Bryce: [00:03:34] nice. So they're moving overseas. The Nasdaq 100 overrated or underrated? [00:03:38][4.4]

Jessica: [00:03:39] Underrated. [00:03:39][0.0]

Bryce: [00:03:40] Wow. For the similar reasons. [00:03:41][1.0]

Jessica: [00:03:42] Well, at the time of recording this, the Nasdaq 100 is at a new all time high. And the broader Nasdaq is also at a new record, all time highs. So the highest levels have ever been. And this is because the Nasdaq 100 home to some of the fang stocks like Facebook, Apple, Amazon and Alphabet, which own Google and Nasdaq 100, also includes eBay, Costco and Intel. And all these businesses are growing their revenue because all of us are shifting to working from home. So Nasdaq 100 underrated. [00:04:15][33.1]

Bryce: [00:04:15] And to put context, we are recording on Wednesday, the 10th of June. [00:04:20][4.4]

Speaker 3: [00:04:21] Nailed it. Yeah. To think about. [00:04:24][2.8]

Alec: [00:04:26] OK, so keeping on the covid-19 theme, you mentioned that the unprecedented monetary response from reserve banks around the world, overrated or underrated, this policy response from, let's say, Australia's Reserve Bank. [00:04:40][13.7]

Jessica: [00:04:40] Hmm. I think underrated. So the RBA cut interest rates to an all time record low of point twenty five per cent, the same in the US. It makes the cost of capital cheaper. So lots of businesses are going to be innovating. It also inflates asset prices. But yeah, RBA policy is underrated. [00:04:57][17.2]

Bryce: [00:04:58] So the Aussie dollar is on a bit of a tear at the moment. And the US dollar is traditionally known as a bit of a safe haven in times like this. But given the large amount of printing that's going on over there, overrated or underrated, the U.S. dollar as a safe haven, [00:05:13][14.3]

Jessica: [00:05:14] overrated, the US dollar will fall, I think. And the reason for that is because the US dollar behaves inversely with markets. So, for example, the US dollar, as measured by the day X Y, which is a basket of currencies so that it hit its highest level in March, twenty twenty this year when we reach the depths of our Kobad covid crash. But it was the highest level since 2016. And if you remember, in 2016, the man with the orange face and blonde hair, Donald Trump, won the election and Britain first voted to leave the EU. So there was a lot of upheaval. So that's why money tends to invest in, as you said. Bryce in safe havens in times of distress, which is why I think it'll pay back. [00:06:00][46.2]

Alec: [00:06:00] So last one for this overrated, underrated covid-19 edition. Obviously, we've all or a lot of people have been working from home and there's questions about will we ever need to go back to the office? Some big tech companies have basically said no. So overrated or underrated Covid impact on commercial property. [00:06:19][18.1]

Jessica: [00:06:19] Well, in the commercial property sector, you've got a couple of different prongs. So you've got office, industrial and residential pompon. So I'd say underrated. So listed office investments have seen the biggest hit in the property segment since the Covid crash because a lot of businesses are wanting to get their employees to work from home. So Twitter, you mentioned big tech companies in the US Twitter said guys work from home permanently with Morgan Stanley globally has said that they want to cut their office space by 25 percent. So half of their staff are working from home. So commercial property, particularly office listed real estate investment trusts, I think will continue to fall because we're seeing these huge behavioural trend to working from home. He wants to work in the office, right? [00:07:12][53.0]

Alec: [00:07:13] Yeah. On the other hand, warehouses might do very well if everyone keeps online shopping as much as they are. [00:07:17][4.7]

Jessica: [00:07:18] Yeah, absolutely. And that explains why Amazon is has ripped to another all time high. So eBay is also doing exceptional things as well. So all applying to these huge behavioural things. Another thing in the property space, Alec Bryce, is Australian property developers. So not necessarily so. Commercial property office likely to continue on a downward trend, but Australian property developers and fund managers are set for growth because interest rates are at record lows. Many a solid Ren collectors as well. So keep your eye out on them. [00:07:47][29.5]

Bryce: [00:07:48] So just one of the things we really enjoy finding out about our guests is the story of the first investment. Alex and I both have differing stories of how we got into the markets. And it's an important first step, obviously, to your investing journey. So are you able to share with us your first investment? [00:08:05][16.7]

Jessica: [00:08:06] Yeah, I'm not sure if it meets with the Equity Mates theme, though. Mine was property mate theme. [00:08:11][5.0]

Bryce: [00:08:11] Well, the Equity Mates themes for first investment is to lose ninety nine point nine percent. So if you haven't done that, then yes. [00:08:21][9.8]

Jessica: [00:08:23] All right. So mine was not Equity Mates same property mate thing. So I bought an investment property when I was 19. So I grew up with property being breathe down my neck, I guess. So I came from an immigrant family on my dad's side and they were like, when are you going to buy your first property? And I was like, OK, now. So I guess I started school early in life. That sounds weird, but I started [00:08:49][26.4]

Speaker 3: [00:08:50] school [00:08:50][0.0]

Jessica: [00:08:50] earlier than other kids, so that means I finish school at 17. I didn't go to uni. I started working coming from an immigrant family. They're like, don't go to uni, you must you must work, bring home the money. So as a result, I invested. I saved, I saved as much as I could and bought a property. Then I sold it and I made 100 grand. And then so I guess my investment journey started from there. [00:09:14][23.7]

Alec: [00:09:15] That's a lot more profitable than my first investment. I guess if you look back on deciding to start investing with an investment property rather than, you know, starting small or with, you know, stocks or anything like that, do you think you learnt anything from that experience? If you had your time again, would you would you start your investing career that way? [00:09:33][18.6]

Jessica: [00:09:34] What I would have done differently, I would have also invested in property, but I would have also invested in the stock market and I would have built a mini portfolio. I would have bought Australia's largest bank, CBA. I could have bought CBA in 2003 for twenty three point fifty six when I was 19, and today it's at 71 85. So I would have made two hundred and five percent [00:09:56][21.9]

Alec: [00:09:56] and some nice dividends along the [00:09:58][1.7]

Jessica: [00:09:58] way. Yes, sorry, but but. But I like to be diversified. So I would have bought Australia's largest iron ore, major Fortescue Metals, which we might be touching on today. So I could have bought them for five cents in 2003 when I was 19. And then today at the time of recording 14 bucks 85. So that means they've gone up 31000 per cent. [00:10:21][22.6]

Alec: [00:10:22] I mean, if I was investing in 2003, Google, Amazon, [00:10:26][4.3]

Speaker 3: [00:10:26] there was plenty of options. I know. [00:10:28][1.5]

Jessica: [00:10:29] Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I would have screamed in my screamed in my younger years to get investing as soon as I can and invest each pay. And that's something that I'm doing now. I'm sure you [00:10:41][12.4]

Alec: [00:10:41] guys know you can scream and our listeners is that exact thing. If you'd like to [00:10:45][3.2]

Bryce: [00:10:47] suggest you started your career in finance and worked as a financial planner before making the move to the financial media space, what sort of. I had that career change [00:10:56][9.6]

Jessica: [00:10:57] well, in school, I can remember learning about the purpose of monetary policy, you know, interest rates and how they stimulate the economy, government spending, infrastructure, how that boosts economic growth and jobs. But I didn't learn about how to manage my own investments. I didn't even know that I had a superannuation fund. I didn't know anything about text phone numbers. I didn't learn how to invest or invest in shares. And these are things that they're not teaching in schools. So I started as a financial adviser and then by night I started working for Sky News Business and I started my own radio show as well. Teaching people how to invest and then call Merritt from Skynyrd's was like, Hey, Jess, you should start doing this full time. And I was like, Oh, OK, but you need a qualification. And I thought, OK, so I quit. And then I became a poor student. Live financial planning, a kind of a big not a big salary, but it was bigger than a journalist's pay at the time. And then I was earning zero being a student. So that's kind of how I started in finance. So it was a meander. But I got here in the end. [00:12:02][65.1]

Alec: [00:12:03] You know, when you think about being an adviser and how you advise your clients and then you think about the media and how financial media reports on financial news and stocks and stuff like that, what do you think financial media does? Well, and probably more importantly, what do you think financial media does poorly? [00:12:20][16.9]

Jessica: [00:12:20] Well, what it does, Will, is, for example, you guys so Equity Mates explaining investment principles and how to get started in a tangible, really easy to understand way. So I found in my research and a lot of research suggests that investors kind of like quick and easy tips, smash and grab. Give me something short, sharp and snappy, snappy. I can take it, do my own research. And then from there, some people just like tips being jammed down their throats. I would have like that. Who doesn't like being told what to do? Sometimes I do, but sometimes I don't. So that's done really well by the media, including you guys. Things that are kind of not done so well on a day to day basis could be, you know, general reporting. So not everyone understands the ins and outs of the market. But I think it's really good in terms of an educational perspective, just getting stock stories out there. So it's really beneficial to kind of help us all in our investment journeys. So if you're hearing about Fortescue Metals or CBA and what they're doing and how their earnings are growing, maybe that's a trigger for someone to invest. So everything goes a long way. I think [00:13:25][64.7]

Bryce: [00:13:26] so. Since your purchase of the first property in when you were 19, to now have you developed a personal investing philosophy. [00:13:32][6.7]

Jessica: [00:13:34] So one of my favourite quotes is by Warren Buffett, and that is that someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago. So what does that mean? So everything that I do today to how I speak to people, to how to what I look at, what I digest, the news I take in to how I invest has a profound impact on what I'm going to do or what my portfolio might be like in the next three, five, 10 years. So one each pay. I invest into the market and I reassess my investments. So that's a part of my investment philosophy, too. I look at buying shares as a business, much like Warren Buffett recommends. I think of, you know, an investment as you're buying a florist so you wouldn't buy a florist that is not producing revenue or doesn't have consistent cash flow or have a track record of success, for that matter. And lastly, look at someone who's got good pruning success so you don't want to buy in to a florist that has disgusting looking flowers and sloppy looking flowers. You want someone who can make them look pretty. But it's so it's basically good management. So good management is key. So track record of success. Think about buying shares as a business and management strong management. [00:14:46][72.5]

Alec: [00:14:47] I like that. I think they're good tenants for everyone to incorporate into their investing philosophy. Now, if we move to the biggest topic that has dominated everyone's mind for the last few months and has definitely dominated markets for the last few months, Ren [00:15:02][14.4]

Bryce: [00:15:02] Spalding [00:15:02][0.0]

Speaker 3: [00:15:05] started [00:15:05][0.0]

Alec: [00:15:06] a lot more than a few months ago. Covid-19 has really thrown everything into turmoil. If we start with your personal, I guess, investing journey over the last few months, what have you learnt or what is surprised you or perhaps what's reinforced something that you already knew during this period? [00:15:22][16.7]

Jessica: [00:15:23] Well, I think this week and last week we've had better than expected economic news. So when we hit the covid-19 crash, so the market hit an all time high on the 20th of Fed. So sentiment was high, everything was high. But we came into this year expecting a negative year. Then the market plummeted 37 per cent. It was pretty scary. I'm not going to lie across the trading floor. However, we were expecting government stimulus to kick in, so that kicked in. So better than expected government support, one better than expected since. Shore bank support, too, so that was great. And thirdly, we started to see a rebound in economic activity as soon as this week, for example, so better than expected business confidence and consumer confidence. That's now back at almost pré covid-19 levels. So big surprise, better than expected economic data, unprecedented government support, really helping a lot of buying activity up. [00:16:21][57.8]

Alec: [00:16:21] Sounds like a lot of positive surprises, which is nice. [00:16:23][2.3]

Jessica: [00:16:24] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, not forgetting that there's about seven trillion a year, seven trillion dollars of money is parked into the sidelines. We've also got the Google search for how to buy stocks. [00:16:38][13.5]

Speaker 3: [00:16:39] Yeah, we definitely felt that. [00:16:41][1.4]

Jessica: [00:16:42] How funny is that? That it's reached two all time highs this year. Yeah. So one after the Covid crash immediately and just recently as well. So now people our age old, they're hungry to get in. [00:16:54][11.6]

Alec: [00:16:55] It shows a certain, I guess, understanding from the general public that they weren't searching, you know, when things were hitting all time highs and you know, that people were making crazy money. But when things fell, there was, I guess, a general understanding that things are cheap. Now might be a good time to buy. [00:17:10][15.2]

Jessica: [00:17:10] Yeah, which is good. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think that was that was a definite surprise. I did not expect the Google search for how to buy stocks. [00:17:17][6.7]

Alec: [00:17:18] Either that or the secondary theory is sports start. And so no one could bet on sports. And so people needed to find another thing to bet on Afterpay. [00:17:26][8.3]

Speaker 3: [00:17:28] Yeah, I [00:17:29][1.2]

Jessica: [00:17:30] know that is still. [00:17:30][0.7]

Speaker 3: [00:17:31] Yeah. [00:17:31][0.0]

Bryce: [00:17:32] You mentioned there that you were expecting government stimulus and obviously, especially in the States, it probably came sooner than people were anticipating if we were to turn south again, in which some people think might happen if we have a second wave or expectations at the moment, sort of more positive than what's going to eventuate, would you be expecting further just as swift government stimulus or have you priced it in so that I guess now is the bulk of the activity and later to come, it's not going to be as much. Does that kind of make sense? [00:18:01][29.9]

Jessica: [00:18:02] Well, I don't think the RBA has got any more feathers in their cap in terms of cutting interest rates again. So point to five percent. They've said, hey, guys, that's as far as we're going to go. And they have the longer term interest rate is where they want it to be as well. So I guess things are tracking as expected in terms of the bond rate and also the central bank interest rate, the benchmark point to five percent because that can set the interest rate 2.5 percent. But it doesn't mean banks are going to lend or issue savings at that rate. So I don't think that the RBA is going to stimulate any more. I think that they're starting to already kind of scale back their bond buying. So I think this is as far as it will go in terms of central bank support. The government has also kind of like wound back the necessary support for job KEPA. And what that means is, you know, that extra thing to kind of help the economy along. They kind of said, hey, guys, you know, we're going to help you keep your job. But they've kind of wound it back, which was completely unexpected. But that's actually a good thing because it means that the initial forecasts were very dire. And now the economic growth forecast, it's still tipped to be negative this year. So economic growth, you see Deep Dive for six per cent and now it's only tipped to fall about five percent. So things are improving. Consumer confidence is improving. So I don't think we're going to need any further support. A second wave. I don't really think that is going to likely necessitate any government support. [00:19:37][94.2]

Bryce: [00:19:37] It's an interesting one. They're saying, you know, negative five percent growth. And if it comes out worse than that, you can imagine the market's going to react pretty strongly to that. So I think that's where, you know, thinking forward, it's like, has the market got the expectation? Right, because we know how they react when the expectations don't align. So, yeah, absolutely. It'll be interesting. What sort of tips would you offer for retail investors investing in these uncertain times? I mean, a lot of our community have gone through the whole array of emotions from, oh, my God, I've just put my whole savings into the stocks for the first time in January. I've just seen it plummet 40 percent. Oh, my God. I've just missed getting into Afterpay. I've missed the boat. Oh, my God. I'm now in the green, sir, on that holiday. And and, you know, Alec and I have discussed strategies of how we should be entering the market over the period of time and that sort of stuff. How do you think about investing in a period of time like this? [00:20:30][53.3]

Jessica: [00:20:31] Well, you're right, Bryce It has been an emotional roller coaster for for all of us commentating on markets for investors as well. It's it's been very emotional, but there's still very large uncertainties. So the first thing I'd say is, is to consider that when you're investing, you make most of your money in bear markets. You just don't know it at the time. And that's a quote from a great investor called Shelby Davis, I guess how true that is. All right, for me, my superannuation portfolio has never been so high, and that's because I invested I was an early investor into Afterpay. So I [00:21:05][33.9]

Speaker 3: [00:21:06] know [00:21:06][0.0]

Jessica: [00:21:07] the first thing is for new investors or retail investors, I guess consider you make the most of your money in bear market. So even when the chips are down, it's horrible. It's uncertain. You know, as we talk about the Google search for how to buy stocks, everyone loves a bargain. Markets are 14 percent off the all time highs. So there's still opportunity to make money in the broad market. The financial sector is the largest part of our market, and that's still off a considerable amount. But over the past couple of weeks, you know, the big four banks and Macquarie have made a gangbuster gain. So that's also something to consider. The second thing that I would say is stick to quality companies. So we've seen quality companies outperform the market. So quality companies are defined as companies with repeatable cash flows, earnings and low debt. So Fortescue Metals is an example. So they're one of a very few companies after covid that have actually upgraded their earnings and upgraded the output for the year. So exceptional. So to translate that into share price performance, the market is down seven percent this year. To date, Fortescue Metals is up 40 per cent, another one. So still sticking to the quality company theme is strong, repeatable cash flows. So and so they used to sell condoms no longer. They're now in protective equipment. And so this has been this [00:22:27][80.3]

Speaker 3: [00:22:28] is something they were before. So, yeah, [00:22:30][2.7]

Jessica: [00:22:32] another type of protective equipment. So PPA, so face masks and stuff that that's used in hospitals and laboratories. So Ansell shares up 22 percent. Rio Tinto, their earnings have been strong even because of covid. It doesn't mean that cargo is not leaving our docks. So Rio Tinto shares are still in positive territory for the year. And the third final piece for investors is aside for investing when the chips are down and investing in quality companies is to start investing now and with each pay. So something that you guys speak about, so use dollar cost averaging. So each pay dollar cost averaging might mean, say, for example, that you buy, say, into CBA, BHP. So we spoke about, say, maybe getting into CBA in 2003 when it was 23 bucks to that's worth Seventy-one. So you would have made two hundred and five per cent. But imagine if you've been adding to that each month or fortnight, you would have compounded your returns. So the power of compounding interest, compounding dividends is astronomical. So don't underestimate putting your chips in the market regularly. [00:23:40][67.4]

Bryce: [00:23:41] Hard to do. It's emotional, especially in the bear market. I mean, you know, taking that plunge can be very difficult for a new investor who's already in the red. Yeah. To jump into a bear market. Yeah, that's just something you've got to experience and. Yeah. And get to know you how to manage those emotions. [00:23:58][17.5]

Jessica: [00:23:59] Yeah. Yeah, I agree. [00:24:00][0.9]

Alec: [00:24:00] I love the invest in quality companies idea. And you know, a mantra that we've sort of been repeating on the show throughout covid is invest in companies that will survive in the short term and thrive in the long term. The bank balance sheet to get through now and then have the strong earnings power to survive later. And then something like Herts comes along which declares bankruptcy and then jumps up 600 percent in a couple of days. And I just don't like what is going on. [00:25:50][109.9]

Speaker 3: [00:25:51] It's unfair. Right. [00:25:52][0.9]

Alec: [00:25:54] But anyway, if we move back to. Covid, it seems to be the classic example of a big macro force just overtaking the market and really affecting everything. There's a lot of macro forces that get a lot of coverage these days and consume a lot of investors times, obviously, Covid in the economic recovery, the US China trade tensions. What's going to happen in the US presidential election? You know, what's Australia's relationship with China in place in Asia? There's a lot of big macro trends that will dominate the investing landscape for years to come. How do you think about staying on top of these big news stories and then factoring them into your investment decisions? [00:26:37][43.3]

Jessica: [00:26:38] There's so much to consider. You just raised a lot, I think, with markets. There will always be risks. There's always uncertainty coming. But on the other side, there's always opportunity. So we spoke about investors having, you know, a really tough time when the chips are down and when their portfolios are down. I also see the other side of things. Just quickly before we get to the macro trends. So my partner is a policeman and I wouldn't exactly classify policemen as high income earners, but the whole policing community I know, for example, in the northern beaches, they've never invested into the share market before and they're doing it now and really benefiting from their success. [00:27:19][41.1]

Alec: [00:27:20] But tell them to listen to Equity Mates. [00:27:21][1.6]

Speaker 3: [00:27:21] Right, right. Right. Yes, I will. I will. [00:27:23][1.8]

Jessica: [00:27:24] I will. So going back to the macroeconomic uncertainty, so we've got the presidential election coming up. Still got this China, US trade war phase two is not done and dusted. Phase one. Yes, OK. We know that kind of by the by and that kind of rose up their hands, the US and China, and said, yeah, you know, let's just keep things as we are. But yeah, you're right, a lot of uncertainty still. So there is this risk that markets could head south. City, for example, say that there's a 70 per cent chance of markets going lower. But if you look at the charts, the chart doesn't say that. So the chart says that we are going higher, but going to that macroeconomic theme for Australia, for the US and China. So it's really important to think about what you first started out from the outset. Bryce saying is to look at expectations so we know that we are going to have negative growth this year. We were expecting negative growth anyway coming into this year in the wake of the trade war. Covid added to that. So the expectation is there for lower growth. So GDP is down point three percent this quarter, expecting negative five point seven percent next quarter. That means those two straight quarters of negative growth will tip Australia into a recession for the first time in 29 years. So we've never seen this before. But the risk is with all of these economic indicators, if they're worse than expected, markets don't like it. No one likes a shitty present. Sorry. Am I allowed to swear that no one likes a bad prison? Right. No one likes if you don't play bowling, no one likes getting a bowling ball. You know, if you're a ten year old kid, you might cry. It's the same thing for markets, right? No one likes surprises. So if economic growth next quarter, say, fell six percent or fell seven percent, then that will likely spook markets. And there is a real risk that markets could head lower and break the technical chart trends that we're seeing pushing higher. [00:29:20][116.5]

Alec: [00:29:21] It feels like when we're talking about macro themes, there's a lot of noise amongst the really important things. And I guess in some ways, the US China trade tensions is an example of something which on its face seems really serious and really will affect the fortunes of a number of companies that make up these indexes around the world. And yet, all through Trump's presidency, all through the escalating tensions, markets just kept grinding up and and they didn't really have an effect on markets in any meaningful way. How do you think about things like that where the headlines don't seem to align with how the markets reacting? [00:29:59][38.1]

Jessica: [00:30:00] I think I just always bring it back to expectations. So it's a bit hard to digest Trump's Twitter feed. So for a point there, you know, markets were rallying just on the back of Donald Trump's tweet. You can't really explain that. So there's a theory in markets that markets are irrational and sometimes investors like all of us, like we're irrational, too. It's pretty normal. And you'd be inhuman if you didn't not react to something that's pretty scary or, you know, Trump threatening an air strike, for example, that rattled markets or, you know, the friction in the U.S. with the oil price. There's always going to be uncertainties. But the trick is for investors is staying the course and backing those quality companies that you set out to invest in and regularly investing. So when markets are down, when you're averaging in, you can buy more units at a cheaper price. So when the market. Bounces back, which are generally always does, if you're in a quality company, then you'll be rewarded for your success, not so much so, you know, for example, companies that kind of liquidate or fold. [00:31:06][65.8]

Bryce: [00:31:07] So just in prep for the interview, you suggested that index tracking may not be the best decision and that it pays to do your research. Now, given that 99 per cent of our community love index tracking, [00:31:19][11.8]

Speaker 3: [00:31:20] I a number of our experts also and [00:31:22][2.4]

Bryce: [00:31:24] we're really keen for you to give us your perspective on this. What do you actually mean by that or do you retract that statement? [00:31:31][7.5]

Speaker 3: [00:31:32] I retract. [00:31:33][1.2]

Jessica: [00:31:34] No, no. I sound like a dragon. Right. But truth be told, I actually hold index funds, so index funds. So passive strategies or listed investments that you don't have to monitor on a day to day basis kind of set and forget ETFs, exchange traded funds. So I like to use ETFs to track key themes. So investing inside China, for example, or the largest tech stocks in the U.S. or quality companies and the largest quality companies in the world via the ticker code QOL, for example, which has a history of outperforming our old benchmarks, by the way. So I do advocate for ETF investing. I don't advocate for being complacent. So if you just want to invest in the top 200 of the top 300 and you're in an ETF, that's fine. But if you want outperformance, you're going to have to get a little bit hungry and join a broker. It's really not hard to do. And you can actually get access to their research. And they they tell you listed stocks, listed companies, ETFs to buy that asset to outperform. And why? So you can make a lot more of a return than just tracking the ASX 200, which is down seven percent this year. So to give you an example of ETFs that I like, so we spoke about Asia. So in China, 55 percent of the world is industrialised. So Australia, you know, we're a fairly developed world. So this kind of shows you the growth that you can get exposed to in China. So if you think about a strategy that you could invest in in China using an ETF without doing any research you could look at. So beat iShares Asia Technology ETF, for instance, and that's outperformed the market this year and for the last couple of months. So that's done really well. So going back to not just hugging an index, I think if you're if you are doing that, that's fine. But you're kind of doing yourself a disservice if you're just investing in one ETF. So the Aussie share market makes up two point two percent of the world market. So there's 1200 sectors in the world. We've only got, depending on what you look at, 11 GICs, sceptres, 11 major sectors. So you can get exposure to a lot more outside of Australia and indeed outside of the ASX 200. [00:34:01][146.6]

Alec: [00:34:02] I got a follow up on the index point because we've had a number of experts come on the show who basically make the case that no or very few investors outperform the index over a long period of time. The fund managers, even the best in the world, have big periods of underperformance. So when we look at history and say how hard it is to consistently beat the index decades over, decades, over decades, why do you think index investing isn't the right thing for people? [00:34:29][27.5]

Jessica: [00:34:30] Hmm. I think it definitely plays a part in people's portfolio, but I don't think it should be your be all and end all. It's a great place for getting started. And I advocate and I encourage people to use ETFs when they're getting started, but when they feel a little bit more comfortable and when they're willing to step outside their comfort zone, you can be the benchmark. We know that by just looking at the ASX 200 this year, it's down seven percent. Yes, some people say if you track an index or if you use an index fund, you're likely to outperform. It's not always the case. You know, Warren Buffett, for example, he doesn't really advocate for using index funds. You know, for example, if you just look at some of the best performing stocks in the ASX 200 this year, for example, Afterpay is up 500 percent from its covid-19 levels. So I think if you just pay attention to what's going on in markets and you do have a good broker and you use a tool like strategy builder, which I'm not giving a plug, but I'm just saying, for example, [00:35:35][65.1]

Speaker 3: [00:35:35] feel free to give a plug. [00:35:36][0.7]

Jessica: [00:35:37] OK, so on Bill Direct, we've got this tool called Strategy Builder and they have like ready set go portfolios that you can kind of buy and essentially create your own index. And it kind of tells you what the performance has been year to date. It tells you all the stocks and you. In select key metrics, so, for example, quality is like the big theme this year that's outperforming. So if you want to only invest in quality companies, then it's a filter for that and you go, all right. Also, jump into the filter and our search for companies that have been growing their earnings over the last couple of quarters or half years that have low debt as well, and that have a growing profit margin. And if I invested in those and looked at those and I took some of those, I said took five companies. And when I did my research, then you'd have a chance of outperforming the market. But you really need to do your research. So it is, I guess, I guess, fraught with danger. But if you don't want to do that, if you don't want to stay abreast of macroeconomic trends, stick to using an ETF. But I'd say use an ETF, but also use it as your core philosophy if you want to do that and then have your speculative stocks on the side once you get a little bit more comfortable. [00:36:52][75.0]

Alec: [00:36:53] Yeah, through the journey on Equity Mates, that's definitely the position that I've sort of found myself in, that there's a lot of experts we've spoken to make a pretty compelling case for index investing. And at the same time, there's a lot of experts we spoke to that make the opposite case and, you know, have outperformed, continue to outperform. And that idea of a core and a satellite seems to really resonate with me where the core you can set it and forget it and check it when you retire in 40 years or hopefully 20 years. But, yeah, and then the interesting stuff and hopefully the stuff where you can make more money comes on the the satellite when you're trying to outperform the market. [00:37:30][37.7]

Jessica: [00:37:31] Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I agree. I like that. Yeah. [00:37:33][2.6]

Bryce: [00:37:34] So just let's move to some of the research that Bill Direct has been doing with regard to some of the most, I guess, stocks that are outperforming or that have been bought the most since covid. You've provided some data on the top 10 most bought ASX stocks, both from the previous high, which was 20th of fab or thereabouts, and also then the bear market, the low on the twenty third of March. And it's an interesting comparison to see stocks that have you mentioned Afterpay up 500 percent from the bottom, which is just ridiculous. But then some of the big hit Macquarie still down from from the highs. What is your biggest takeaway from from looking at these lists of the top 10 most bought? [00:38:16][42.4]

Jessica: [00:38:17] I think it just goes back to the theme of if you're willing to stay nimble and agile and adjust to what's going on in markets, then you can definitely outperform. So from the point that you mentioned, 2015 to the low twenty third of March, the market lost 37 percent. So very scary to the market, entered its as bear market in history. And then on the flip side, we saw our quickest come out of a bear market in history. So yeah, just absolutely crazy. And it was all in the space of, you know, a couple of months. So during that time it was one hell of a bumpy ride. So I commend I commend you if you didn't look at your portfolio, but I also commend you. If you did look at your portfolio and you adjusted and made tweaks to find outperformance. So tech stocks, for example, due to, I guess all of us kind of like fostering and a lot of companies fostering that working from home trend tech stocks outperformed. So the tech index itself this year is well and truly in positive territory. I think it's about up six per cent at the time of recording this when the market is down seven percent. So that really shows you that the resilience of the tech sector, which is driven by record low interest rates, is soaring and is likely to do well. Another thing that we saw was health care. So this is a sector that typically does well and it has done well over the past 10 years in what's called a light economic cycle when the economy is slowing down and cooling its heels. So investors tend to kind of lean towards those sectors and stocks that do well, regardless of what's going on in the economy. For example, CSL, they've been doing exceptionally well and the health care sector is also positive for the year. The mining sector is also making a bit of a comeback. So that's something to watch. But that's also reflected in the fact that Australia's biggest exporting revenue from iron ore, the price of iron ore, reached a 10 month high. So it's up over 100 bucks tonne us. So that's helped Fortescue Metals shine to the top or take one of the top performing posts. And we've also seen the big four banks take a tumble and then see a rally. At the beginning, we spoke about US stocks hitting all time highs. So we're still not there yet. So we're 14 per cent away from all time highs. And the reason we're still in the woods, still negative for the year or the ASX 200, the benchmark index is because. Banks, so banks are still down. The chips are still down, and that's because we've seen like a triple hit. So they've seen the aftermath of the royal commission. Then, for example, you only have to pick up a paper to see what was going on. So Westpac had its own saga and NAB had theirs. And then covid hit the third and final wooden dagger in the heart, I guess. But markets are definitely turning a corner. The big four banks are, too, because they've got the strongest cash position. [00:41:23][185.9]

Bryce: [00:41:24] Is this list in order of the most bought through to the like in order one to ten? Okay. So for our listeners from the twenty third of March, bottom half of the market, Macquarie Bank, Macquarie Group is the most bought stock, followed by a quickly run through them just because we'll have a bit of a conversation around them, followed by NAB, CSL, CBA or Commonwealth, Westpac, ANZ, BHP Flight Centre, Fortescue and Afterpay. [00:41:53][29.4]

Alec: [00:41:54] Now we should clarify most bought on Belder, right? Not most bought across the ASX. [00:41:59][4.5]

Bryce: [00:41:59] Yes, yes. Most bought on Belder. [00:42:01][1.4]

Jessica: [00:42:01] Unfortunately, we don't have access to the most board on the ASX. We do. In terms of share price performance, that makes sense. But in terms of money on the table, buy me this. Buy me that. That's what we can get access to. [00:42:12][11.1]

Bryce: [00:42:12] So a couple of stocks that we got into over the period, but generally speaking, pretty boring in my opinion. Banks, I think Fortescue on [00:42:20][7.1]

Alec: [00:42:20] the thing for me is the banks have had not the greatest time. Like, you know, they've cut dividends. They're talking about mortgage impairments. And yet Macquarie number one, NAB number two, CBA number four. [00:42:32][11.8]

Bryce: [00:42:32] I think this car is a bit different. It's a little bit different. Macquarie knows how to make money. Yeah. The other the other banks are being well, they [00:42:40][7.3]

Speaker 3: [00:42:40] to make money now, apart from, of course, the best at making money. I guess you're a holder of Macquarie. I do buy a car. [00:42:46][6.2]

Alec: [00:42:47] He also bought right near the bottom of the dip. So full credit. [00:42:50][2.9]

Speaker 3: [00:42:50] Well done. Well done. But you didn't [00:42:52][1.6]

Alec: [00:42:52] buy Afterpay at the dips, so [00:42:53][1.1]

Bryce: [00:42:54] I didn't. But I was a shareholder at the time, so I should have bought more. But anyway, are there any stocks in there that surprise you or is that reasonably what you would expect to see? [00:43:03][8.9]

Jessica: [00:43:04] OK, good question. So does it surprise me? No. So banks one of the closest tide sectors that are tied to economic growth and performance. So when the economy cools, banks typically lag and underperform. And when the economy is expanding as it is now and kind of turning a corner, we're seeing banks really make monumental gains. So it doesn't surprise me to see the big four banks being some of the most purchase stocks after we hit the covid-19 crash. [00:43:39][35.0]

Speaker 3: [00:43:40] Boring. I come on earlier, [00:43:42][2.6]

Bryce: [00:43:43] the tech stocks in there, other than Afterpay, I mean, you'd think apen their booming. Who else next week has been on everyone's hit list. Don't see them on the list. It's it was surprising to me, to be honest. [00:43:54][10.9]

Alec: [00:43:54] But yeah, the one that doesn't surprise me just because there was so much chatter about it in the Equity Mates discussion group. But I guess it's slightly surprising given they have had a terrible run over the last few months was Flight Centre. And it seems that as they fell, interest just peaked and more and more people were were just throwing more and more money into it. But, you know, like they've probably got a long road back. International travel seems like a long way off. How do you think about people piling into that stock? [00:44:24][29.6]

Jessica: [00:44:24] I do like flights and to travel, unfortunately, it's hard to let go a few workers. So I don't like that. I do like the cost savings, though, the restructuring the business, which I think is a real bonus. They're really shifting to an online presence. So I think that will bode well for the group. But they have seen a monumental gain from the covid-19 low. And I think a lot of the consensus is now suggesting that they may have been overbought because I guess international flights really aren't set to recover. So Qantas announced last week 40 per cent of flights, domestic flights tipped to be, you know, returned to route. But we still don't know about the story for international growth. So I just don't know about flights [00:45:11][47.2]

Alec: [00:45:12] into the crazy thing is, it's up 80 odd percent from its low. It's still down over 50 percent from where it started the year. So if it's going to recover, it's got a long way to run still. [00:45:23][11.4]

Bryce: [00:45:24] So he's speaking a lot about some of the best performers and most bought. But let's have a look at some of the worst performers. Just Alec and I did a YouTube video recently, and we were looking at eight of the stocks that were still 50 percent or more down from there. Twenty of February. Hi. I'm looking at the list that Bell Direct have here as well. And a lot of those stocks were in their Southern Cross. We spoke about Webjet Flight Centre, Media Credit Corp. We spoke about and Virgin Money. And we tried to pick out of all of those eight, which one we would want to invest in, given that a down sort of 70 or 80 percent, if you had a gun to your head and you had to buy one of them, what would you choose? [00:46:07][43.1]

Jessica: [00:46:08] I wish I bought Southern Cross media. So the reason for that is I really kick myself for not buying this company earlier. So they've already turned a massive inroad. If you look at the share price performance since the covid-19 lows, they've really turned a corner. So Southern cross media, you think about regional TV, regional radio, this audience. I used to work in regional TV. The audience is loyal. You don't have much TV options, but it's more about the businesses. So thinking about, you know, a fencing company or a ride on tractor company, I mean, where else are they going to advertise? It's like the little TINA acronym comes back. There is no alternative. So Southern Cross media, I think, is going to do very well for the fact that their businesses are quite sticky and the costs are quite low. And they traditionally have been quite good at keeping their capital tight, which is what shareholders want. And they also have a history of dividend paying. So I think this will return once. I guess we're kind of back to the old normal. Hmm. [00:47:13][64.8]

Alec: [00:47:13] Yeah, interesting. I wasn't expecting that take on Southern Cross media. I like it. We'll have to see how it goes and get you back and assess. Assess that. Yeah. Yeah. So just we're coming up on an hour and we want to say a massive thank you for taking the time. Before we move to our final questions, there's one stock that's been mentioned a few times and I feel like a lot of our audience and definitely Bryce is stinging for a discussion on it. So I won't keep him in suspense any longer. And that's Afterpay. Despite any concern people might have about retail spending, at least in physical stores this year, Afterpay has recovered like nothing else, up over 500 percent from its March low at the time of recording. By the time we released this episode, it will probably have ten bucks from its not too. How do you think about a stock like this? [00:48:05][52.2]

Jessica: [00:48:06] Well, I wish I bought Afterpay when a fund manager spoke to me about it when it was six bucks. So YNAB investment manager from Antaria spoke to me about him buying into Afterpay in 2017. So when it was born I guess debuted on to the ASX and how dumb I was. [00:48:27][21.0]

Alec: [00:48:27] You're kicking yourself about not investing in Southern Cross media. You should still be kicking yourself about that. [00:48:31][4.2]

Speaker 3: [00:48:32] I know. [00:48:32][0.2]

Jessica: [00:48:32] I know. So you spoke about the like as less foot traffic, right? So that's a huge trend. But on the other side, there's a massive boom in online spending, which is why we're seeing these tech stocks flourish. I mean, our tech sector's back positive for the year. So the reason for that is because online spending is tipped to double. And the reason for that is because previously reluctant buyers to the older demographic don't have an option anymore. They have to shop online. They've been forced to shop electronically. So online retailing is tipped to double by 2023 to six point five trillion dollars. That means two point one billion of us, a tip to shop online by next year. So two big companies that are set to benefit from that first mover Afterpay. Second one, zip. The ticker code is Z one P. I mean, Afterpay considering it was only born like a couple of years ago. [00:49:29][57.0]

Alec: [00:49:30] The founder was only born a couple of years ago. [00:49:32][1.9]

Jessica: [00:49:34] Yeah, he's as young as [00:49:36][1.5]

Speaker 3: [00:49:36] you guys know. [00:49:37][0.8]

Jessica: [00:49:38] But do you know it's the twenty three biggest company on the ASX now. [00:49:42][3.6]

Alec: [00:49:42] It doesn't surprise me. Just everything about this company can do no wrong. [00:49:46][3.5]

Jessica: [00:49:47] But that's the thing. But you see a lot of analysts have a little bit mixed about this one. So saying yes, it had the first mover. But Sebas Kloner, the customers in the U.S. are growing at a quicker rate than the then Afterpay. So that's a little bit of a risk. So I do like Afterpay, though, because the customer acquisition costs are quite low and the customer is growing at a compound annual growth rate. That's unheard of, I think, given the recent shift in foot traffic as well in Australia, it kind of looks like it's tipped to kind of see a bit of an uptick, not so much in the UK or in the US. They're still below estimates, but in Australia, foot traffic is also on the rise as well. [00:50:31][44.6]

Bryce: [00:50:32] Nice. Well, I'm still long Afterpay, that's for sure. So I [00:50:36][3.8]

Alec: [00:50:36] kicking in. I've never invested in Bryce. When we started Equity Mates, we were doing like stocks of the week and stuff. And one of your first stocks was Afterpay at 250. I never believed in you. I was wrong. I admitted that many times. [00:50:50][13.5]

Speaker 3: [00:50:51] I still got it in writing. So good. That's amazing. [00:50:55][4.1]

Bryce: [00:50:56] Yeah, it's been a wild ride on and I think it's got some positive things to come to the market. [00:51:02][5.8]

Speaker 3: [00:51:02] But hey, [00:51:02][0.1]

Bryce: [00:51:03] Jess, we're about to move to our final three questions that we always ask before we do. We love bold predictions here on Equity Mates. So do you have a bold prediction for how the ASX or perhaps any of the stocks that we've spoken about might finish 2020? [00:51:17][13.6]

Jessica: [00:51:18] Afterpay, let's start on that one. So I think Afterpay I'm not sure of it being a top 10 yet, but I think it definitely has potential to kick off some of those older, more mature businesses and become a top 15. So it's currently 23. So I'd watch that closely. Another thing is the ASX 200. If you look at the fundamentals, they're strong. So the ASX 200 is on path for recovery. So the US jobs numbers were stronger than expected this week, this week in Australia, as will business and consumer confidence stronger than expected. So the fundamentals are there for the ASX 200 to move higher. If you look at charts, if you're a chart guru, the trends, the 50 and 200 day moving average, you're pointing upwards. And if they hit the market will I guess I won't say explode, but it will definitely move higher. So you could probably expect a rise of 14 per cent given Covid restrictions are easing in. That's likely to continue. And my third and final point is the Aussie tech stocks will continue to boom. [00:52:24][65.8]

Bryce: [00:52:25] Nice. Well, we've got all of those in writing. We've just clicked save. So we're going to be looking forward to checking in with you in December to see how they went. But I look, to be honest, I think as things sort of going at the moment, you know, you can't really argue against most of that. [00:52:38][13.2]

Alec: [00:52:38] I was going to ask you a bold prediction on the back of that suggests that said, 14 percent rise over on the ASX finishes the year, 14 percent up [00:52:46][8.3]

Bryce: [00:52:47] from this point, from this point, from the 11th of June or July. Yeah, I'm going to say over. Yeah. Yeah. Which is against my bold prediction from the start of the year, I think, which was that it would finish [00:52:58][11.2]

Speaker 3: [00:52:59] below where we started. Just the [00:53:01][2.0]

Alec: [00:53:01] thing you've got to understand about Bryce is that every year we've done this show is called a bear market and it was almost right this year, but then it's come [00:53:11][9.8]

Jessica: [00:53:11] back. Why did you invest in the FBAR? [00:53:13][2.1]

Bryce: [00:53:14] I think I did when we were in a bull market [00:53:16][1.7]

Speaker 3: [00:53:19] because I kept calling the bear and it never turned out. [00:53:22][3.1]

Bryce: [00:53:22] So, yeah, I'm off that at the moment. [00:53:23][1.2]

Alec: [00:53:24] Anyway, a long, long time. [00:53:25][1.6]

Bryce: [00:53:26] Yeah. So let's move to the final three questions, Jess. And this is usually Alex keeg. So throw it to him [00:53:31][5.6]

Speaker 3: [00:53:31] and we can finish it. Right. [00:53:33][1.9]

Alec: [00:53:34] I suggest we like to wrap up with the same three questions for every guest. The first one is, do you have any must read books? And these can be investing or otherwise [00:53:42][8.6]

Jessica: [00:53:43] one up on Wall Street. Peter Lynch, God love it. Intelligent investor Benjamin Graham and the subtle art of not giving a if by Mark Manson. [00:53:53][10.1]

Speaker 3: [00:53:54] Yeah, I always say that book. I've never read it. Yeah, I read it. Yeah. [00:53:58][3.4]

Alec: [00:53:58] I think I've even been given it as a gift and I've just never really gifted it. Not sitting on the shelf. I'll read it now because please. Audio book. Yeah it audio books never really captured me. Podcasts are just a better, better use of my audio listening time. The second question, what is your go to source for investing information? [00:54:17][19.5]

Jessica: [00:54:18] So every morning I wake up, the first thing I do, I literally turn my alarm off and I check Sam, they say, to see what happened on Wall Street. And then I have a quick look at Bloomberg to see any interesting news. And then the last thing I do when I get into the office, I look for major shareholder changes. So on a good broker's website, you see major shareholdings so you can just go drop down and see big changes in that. And then the other one I'll look at is director buying. So, yeah, they're likely to move share prices as well. [00:54:52][33.4]

Alec: [00:54:52] I like that. I know we're running long, but I just want to ask, when you talk about major shareholder changes, what are you looking for in particular? Are you looking for insiders? Are you looking for major investment banks? What are the key things you're looking? [00:55:04][12.2]

Jessica: [00:55:05] Yeah, so I usually don't touch small caps because they don't have a history of success. They don't have solid cash flows, solid revenue. So they kind of go against my ethos. So if I do come across a small cap and I'll say that a major investor has bought in, I may be more likely to buy in. For example, this company called Patris PIB is the code. I wouldn't invest into it today because I'm not currently researching it. I don't know how it's been going, but I like the company made success with trading brain cancer across the blood brain barrier. I saw Macquarie become a major shareholder. I bought in and then I had success out of that. So it pays dividends to look at literally. [00:55:49][44.6]

Speaker 3: [00:55:50] Yeah, actually, yes. I like that [00:55:52][2.3]

Alec: [00:55:53] one thing we say on. The show is that there's no points for originality investing, it's just about making money and following experts and, you know, big investment banks. I think that's a great, great way to. Oh, yeah, [00:56:03][10.7]

Jessica: [00:56:04] yeah, yeah. [00:56:05][0.7]

Alec: [00:56:05] Pick up on ideas. [00:56:06][0.4]

Jessica: [00:56:06] Absolutely. They've got teams of analysts who are, you know, investing into these things. [00:56:10][3.7]

Alec: [00:56:11] Yeah. And you can steal all their research. [00:56:12][1.5]

Speaker 3: [00:56:13] Yeah, absolutely. [00:56:13][0.3]

Alec: [00:56:15] All right. So last question. And I know I kind of front Ren this question earlier in the interview, but if you think back to your early days when you were 19 buying your investment property, what advice would you give your younger self? [00:56:26][11.9]

Jessica: [00:56:27] Three things invest now. So markets always rise over the long term. So you also make most of your money in the bear market. So I would have invested more if I had more money. So, yeah, you make most of your money in a bear market, as said by Shelby Davis. So the ASX 200 is up 80 percent over 10 years. But I'd start a mini portfolio with the stocks that I'm talking about and I'd save at least 10 percent of my money into those. For example, you know, Australia's biggest bank, CBA. If I bought that in the GFC, 23 bucks, 97, I would have made 200 percent today if I bought Australia's largest iron ore company, Fortescue Metals FMG for a buck twenty, I would have made 1154 percent if I bought in the GFC. So one market's always rise over the long term. Secondly, Abby, I. My dad always said he's a salesman. Always be closing. But I say Abi always investing. Warren Buffett always says, [00:57:23][55.9]

Speaker 3: [00:57:23] I like [00:57:24][0.2]

Jessica: [00:57:26] Warren Buffett always says right. You never know what market's doing. The surprise is always going to be around the corner. But most days he's a net buyer. So think about buying into the market as regularly as you can to even out the price that you pay for a stock. Because when markets are going down, you won't necessarily kick yourself. You'll be buying more units for less. So I'd always be investing. And the last thing is to don't just go at your own, so use a broker. I really encourage you to use a broker because you can get access to their research. So they'll put out fundamental research on companies saying why they recommend these companies to buy, sell or hold. It's backed up by what you can expect, their cash flows, revenue, profitability to do over the next three, four, five, 10 years. So always look at going with a broker. [00:58:16][50.2]

Bryce: [00:58:17] Nice. Three great tips to end the show. Yes. We very much appreciate you coming in and joining us today. It's been a fascinating and very fun conversation. And we look forward to touching base in December to see where is that where the ASX is at and where our Aussie tech stocks are at. But look forward to keeping in touch. Until then, thank you very much. [00:58:36][19.0]

Jessica: [00:58:36] Thank you so much, Bryce. And thank you so much alike. And thank you for this podcast. Love what you guys are doing. Thanks to us. [00:58:42][6.2]

Speaker 5: [00:58:43] Thanks for listening to Equity Mates investing podcast production of Equity Mates Media. Please remember that everything you hear in Equity Mates investment podcast is general advice on link. The content has been prepared not knowing the personal objectives, specific financial circumstances or goals. The host of Equity Mates investment podcast may maintain positions in the companies discussed before considering any investment. Please read the product disclosure statement and consider speaking to a licenced financial professional. [00:58:43][0.0]

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