Ahh the magic of compound interest…. Albert Einstein refers to it as the 8th wonder of the world. He says, ‘he who understands it, earns it. He who doesn’t, pays it’. But do you actually understand how it works? You’ve come to the right place! In today’s episode, we break down everything you need to know about compound interest and how you can turn $5,000k into $1,500,000. Because who doesn’t want to be a millionaire?! We’ve also got an exciting new segment, ‘Show me the money, honey’, where we take a sneak peek into a millennial’s portfolio… What they’re earning, how much they’re investing and what they’re investing in. And of course, we’re adding to the watchlist.
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Speaker 1: [00:00:00] The best career advice that you are not
Speaker 2: [00:00:02] getting is to invest.
Maddy: [00:00:07] Hello and welcome to your in good company and investing podcast, striving to disrupt the Norns in the finance industry. I'm Maddieand as always, I'm in some very good company with my co-host, Sophie.
Sophie: [00:00:19] Hello, Maddie. How are we?
Maddy: [00:00:22] We're good. How are you?
Sophie: [00:00:23] We're good to start off. I've got another joke for you.
Maddy: [00:00:26] Amazing.
Sophie: [00:00:27] Why did the financial analyst give his daughter gifts today instead of waiting until Christmas? Why? Because he understands present value.
Maddy: [00:00:40] I actually don't mind that. Is that really why I feel ashamed to lack that drink?
Sophie: [00:00:45] For anyone that doesn't know the finance lingo of, like, present value, it's just a jargon term that's used,
Maddy: [00:00:51] that's all, you know, to try and explain it.
Maddy: [00:00:54] You just bring.
Maddy: [00:00:55] Oh, that's right. Well, let's move on. Move on in the interest of time. Well, a big welcome to today's podcast, and I want to share a special shout out as well. So because when we're planning this season at the NSA as a mom, we sort of took a bit of time and we had a look at some of our stats and things like that. And one of the stats we had to look at was where our audience was based. And I got so excited because where we go to extremes in Costa Rica oh, and I message out like little WhatsApp group with the Equity Mates guys. And I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe it. People in Costa
Maddy: [00:01:31] Rica chinita the podcast, little
Maddy: [00:01:34] me so excited. Bryce comes in and goes, no, it'll just be bot's like this.
Maddy: [00:01:40] So.
Maddy: [00:01:42] So I would like to say a special welcome to our Costa Rican listeners, please. If you're listening, jump in the Facebook group. Why AJC investing podcast discussion group and get in touch. Because I would love to prove Bryce wrong on this one.
Sophie: [00:01:57] Do you reckon the bots will get on to Facebook and be like, Hi Maddie.
Maddy: [00:02:00] I don't
Maddy: [00:02:00] mind. As long as someone comes in, I can try and prove us wrong. Then I'll be a happy person.
Sophie: [00:02:05] So we have a pretty cool episode today because we're going to speak about one of the biggest buzzwords out there in the investing space, which is compound interest
Maddy: [00:02:13] and for good reason. It's a buzz word for very good reason.
Sophie: [00:02:16] You can turn your five K into one point five million dollars, which just sounds like unachievable, but it's not for a second.
Maddy: [00:02:23] Then I thought, sorry, this just goes to show how Victorian I am right now. When he said five, I thought, you're talking about our five K, right. But we're not allowed to leave five days for wow.
Sophie: [00:02:34] I actually went to fifteen. I was like, so
Maddy: [00:02:38] I'm going to drive to I don't know where but I've got a fifteen game.
Sophie: [00:02:41] OK, what else have we got today, Maddie.
Maddy: [00:02:44] So today we're also going to be adding to our watch list. And I have to say I feel like the stakes are a little bit heightened on this one since we did our watch list check in. And I know that we're going to be going back and seeing how it went.
Maddy: [00:02:56] I know I'm nervous about what to put on it, but it's going to be a good run.
Sophie: [00:03:00] But before we get in today's episode, we would like to acknowledge and pay respects the wonder people of the Kulin nation who are the traditional owners of this land. We pay our deepest respect to the elders past and present and to the next generation who we hope to create a different future for.
Maddy: [00:03:14] So so before we get into today's episode, we are very excited to have a new segment on the show called Show Me the Money, Honey, where we take a snake pit into a community members portfolio, finding out how much they earn, how much they're investing each month and what they're actually investing in in order to build their wealth. So let's cross over to our YIGC community member.
Community Member: [00:03:37] Show me the money, honey. Hey, guys. My name's Mary. I'm twenty five years old and I'm a research assistant currently working in cancer clinical trials and earning just over two thousand one hundred dollars a fortnight. And I set aside one hundred and eighty to invest, although sometimes I wait until I've got a larger amount to negate for for each phase. Currently, my investment portfolio is mainly comprised of ETFs. Specifically, I hold an ASX 300, NASDAQ 100 and S&P 500 ETF. So I would like to get into some more thematic ETFs in the future. I've also recently bought my first thought of individual shares in AWB as I really believe in the company and I also love being ever justify my purchases by claiming I'm putting money back into my own pocket. Today, the total value of my portfolio is just over five thousand dollars. Since I started investing a little bit over twelve months ago today, I made a total profit of a little bit over five hundred dollars, which I'm pretty pleased with, considering my portfolio is still very modest.
Sophie: [00:04:36] So let's jump into today's topic. Compound interest. We're very excited. It's time for a closer look. OK, so just start it off. We think there's kind of two main concepts that like everyone should really know about compound interest or just interest in general. And that's differentiating simple interest and compound interest. Yeah. So I think we should do a round of, like, lightening questions to get to know both topics and like, I'll just volunteer myself because I'm a great person to take the simple.
Maddy: [00:05:01] Thank you so much.
Maddy: [00:05:03] OK, in that case, you have to define simple interest in 30 seconds, go.
Sophie: [00:05:08] OK, so simple interest is earning interest on a principal amount. And when I say principal amount, it's like the initial amount that you put, like the initial cash amount that you put into something to if you put a thousand dollars into your bank account and you make a little bit of interest on that, your principal is the a thousand dollars
Maddy: [00:05:24] you put in. OK, so simple interest is just the interest and on your initial investment. So what's an example?
Sophie: [00:05:31] A really good example of simple interest is bonds. And we talk about bonds in one of those episodes, one of about episodes. So go have a listen. But if you put your money into a bond, so you're lending money to, you know, a corporate or a government and it matures in one year. And so let's say you put five thousand dollars, you're lending 5000 dollars. And they say that you've got a five percent interest amount at the end of the first year or at the end of the year. That means at the end of the year, when the bond matures, I'm getting 250 dollars. So five percent interest on five thousand. And that's just simple interest. There's no compounding effect. It's just five percent times, five percent done.
Maddy: [00:06:06] OK, nice. So for how good simple interest is, what would you write it out of tip.
Sophie: [00:06:14] OK, writing out of 10 on interest. Nice. I would still probably give it a pretty good writing like a six or seven that you're still making money. It's just probably not as good as its little sister friend Rachel.
Maddy: [00:06:28] All right.
Maddy: [00:06:29] Well, that brings us nicely to compound interest then.
Sophie: [00:06:32] So in 30 seconds or less define compound interest,
Maddy: [00:06:37] compound interest is earning interest on interest. So I like to think of it as I was about to say. So I like to think of it as compounding.
Maddy: [00:06:46] I like to think of it
Maddy: [00:06:47] as if I put my fork in a bowl of spaghetti and I start turning it. I'm going to get more and more spaghetti on my for each hand. It goes around similar analogy to look, if you have a snowball and you roll it down the hill and, you know, in cartoons like rolls and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and then you have this
Sophie: [00:07:02] cold in it and it's a disaster.
Maddy: [00:07:05] So common interest is interest on interest, on interest, on interest. And that is why when we start investing, we say that it's so great if you can start when you're young and hold for the long term because your interest has all that time to compound.
Sophie: [00:07:21] So can you give me an example of commanding officer? Maybe some figures, yes.
Maddy: [00:07:26] So let's say I invest in shares, pay a dividend. So hypothetically, I put 5000 dollars into a stock with a company that, let's say, pays two percent dividend each year. So in year one, I make two percent on the five thousand dollars. And then in year two, I'm going to make two percent again, two percent dividend. But this time it's not just going to be on five thousand dollars. It's going to be the five thousand dollars plus two percent of the previous year.
Sophie: [00:07:56] But can I ask what like what if I take that two percent as cash?
Maddy: [00:08:00] That's a great point. When you get paid a dividend, if you don't invest that money, then that's income for you. But you're not getting the interest on interest. In order for it to occur, you have to have reinvested your dividend.
Sophie: [00:08:13] Makes sense. So it's interest on interest, on interest. And it's great
Maddy: [00:08:16] because it accumulates. Exactly.
Sophie: [00:08:19] So if I gave my interest to writing, I guess you probably have to give your interest to writing as well.
Maddy: [00:08:25] Well, I guess so. Albert Einstein once referred to compound interest as the eighth wonder of the world. So I think with that in mind, we would have to say compound interest is a ten out of ten.
Sophie: [00:08:38] You actually know what the other wonders of the world are. So I actually have a question about compound interest that I really struggled with when I was kind of first grasping the topic in the case of investing, like if you think about, you know, your bank account, you can clearly distinguish that the interest that you're being paid is that interest that the bank is paying you on your amounts, you know, that you put into your savings account.
Maddy: [00:09:02] So you say the deposits actually come into your account.
Sophie: [00:09:04] Exactly. In the case of investing, like what actually is the interest? Like, what is that payment?
Maddy: [00:09:12] Yeah. So I guess if we think about how we make money through investing, it's either via an increase in value of our investments or from dividends when the company pays us dividends. So when you're paid dividends from shares, you can either. And this is touching on what was mentioned before, you can either withdraw them and withdraw that dividend as cash or you can reinvest it back into the market. So when you reinvest it back in, that means that you are able to actually and dividends essentially on your dividends, if that makes sense or your dividends are money invested in the market. And then just like your principal initial amount you put in, you can earn dividends on that, too. And that is the compound interest.
Sophie: [00:09:52] Understood. I think that's probably why people have recommended me to buy like high paying dividend stocks. Have you ever had that reckoning?
Maddy: [00:10:00] I mean, it makes sense,
Maddy: [00:10:03] maybe that's why
Sophie: [00:10:04] they call it the eighth wonder of the
Maddy: [00:10:05] world.
Sophie: [00:10:06] And now we are going to take a quick break for our sponsors, but we'll be right back to give some examples about compound interest.
Maddy: [00:10:14] So so I have got a bit of a story for you, and it might sound a little familiar. I think that we should compare the pair same age, same income. Oh, but started investing at different times. Compare the big. So I'm going to set the scene and this story actually begins with you.
Maddy: [00:10:37] Oh, this is a story like I've told you before, it's a little bit of an
Maddy: [00:10:43] imaginary story, but let's start with it. OK, I want you to imagine that you invest five thousand dollars per year and you've invested every year from when you turned 18.
Sophie: [00:10:54] OK, so like just under about quick maths, 500 Dollars.
Maddy: [00:11:00] Yeah, but this is not for me. Thank so maybe five thousand dollars to buy at any rate, only about 12. Oh.
Maddy: [00:11:09] So after 10 years you have invested how much.
Sophie: [00:11:13] Fifty thousand. Fifty thousand. Yep.
Maddy: [00:11:16] You invest five thousand dollars a year. After ten years you've invested 50 K. Let's say at that point you stop investing your twenty eight and you decide to never invest again. OK, you fast forward a few years. You have had a highly successful career. All is good in the hood and at age 58 you decide to retire.
Sophie: [00:11:38] OK, I can already picture myself on a certain beach with like pinnacle of my
Maddy: [00:11:42] head ready for it. So based on an average market return of nine point seven percent per year, you will be retiring with just under one point five dollars million in your investing portfolio. Wow.
Sophie: [00:11:55] So I've started investing at 18. My principal amount, which are defined before, is 50 K into the market and because of what compounding effects and everything else. By the time I'm 50, I have one point five million. Even though I stopped investing it at 20, I only invested for 10 years.
Maddy: [00:12:09] That is what based on historical returns, that is what 30 years of compounding can do for you.
Sophie: [00:12:15] So pretty much you don't have to do it. Like you can just stop working and your money still works for you. It's amazing. Amazing. So, Mary, I've got
Maddy: [00:12:21] a story about you. Oh, do now. OK, so so did.
Sophie: [00:12:31] So you invest the same five thousand dollars per year, but you begin at 28. So when I've stopped, you begin. The difference is, though, you continue to invest that five K until we both retire at 58. So how many years are you investing for?
Maddy: [00:12:51] 30 years.
Sophie: [00:12:52] OK, so in that 30 years with five K per year, your total principal amount is one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Yes. That's the amount you're putting into the market.
Maddy: [00:13:01] So that's three times as much as you invested
Sophie: [00:13:04] Yes, exactly. So based on the same average market returns, nine point seven percent, Madie will have at the end of it at the 58 years of age eight hundred fifty eight thousand dollars, which is still great. But that's like six hundred K less than me. Yeah, I'm ending up with
Maddy: [00:13:20] a huge difference and all because I started 10 years later.
Sophie: [00:13:24] Yeah. So this is the effect of compound interest. The investment return that I make is from that earlier 10 years that I had where, you know, even though I put more principal A in and was consistent with her investments, she ends up with less because of the timing of it.
Maddy: [00:13:38] And that's even though I save for an additional 20 years over you like. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. So our third scenario and hopefully she enjoys this addition when she's listening in and editing the episode is produced, is that for juicers? So producer Sasha invests five times per year. She starts at age 18. But the difference is from you and from me is that she continues investing this amount five year until her retirement at fifty. So instead of finishing after ten years, she continues all the way through.
Sophie: [00:14:13] So that's 40 years of five K every year. So that's 200 K that she put in. So I put in 50, Madie puts in 150, she puts in two hundred and with that same nine point seven percent return she retires with two point two four million.
Maddy: [00:14:28] I'm so jealous of Sasha.
Sophie: [00:14:30] She's going to like this story I can tell
Maddy: [00:14:32] so significantly larger. Two point three four million significantly larger than my eight hundred and fifty eight thousand and so one point five dollars million.
Sophie: [00:14:41] So why are we telling this story? Like, what's the magic behind starting so early with the compound interest?
Maddy: [00:14:48] Yeah. So I guess the point of this story is just to really illustrate that, you know, the sooner you can build that foundation block in investing, the more time you have for it to grow.
Sophie: [00:14:59] Yeah, and I think one of the things to think about is like a graph with simple verse compound interest. And we'll put something on the Instagram Wijk podcast so you can really visualise it because it's quite difficult to do.
Maddy: [00:15:08] I was about to say you're about to explain a graph over a podcast.
Sophie: [00:15:13] My Hands. I can
Maddy: [00:15:14] say you have three days, I'm ready, I'm
Maddy: [00:15:16] excited to do the draught.
Sophie: [00:15:18] These are the movements I'm going to do. Simple interest is a linear line that's in a diagonal direction. It's slowly going up on the same trajectory every single year. But the compound interest starts at the same point is the simple interest. But it will grow exponentially. Like if you did your ten maths. I think they use that word exponentially.
Maddy: [00:15:38] So picture like a skateboard ramp, like it starts slow and then it gets really straight because you get up to the top.
Sophie: [00:15:43] And that is because of the interest on interest, on interest effect. That is why, because your bottom's grown a lot. So then it can curve up steeper. And if you want an example of this, jump on the money smart website,
Maddy: [00:15:56] the compound interest calculator. It is such a great tool. I love playing around
Sophie: [00:16:01] it and you'll be able to see that compounding effect as well. So. Well, I guess just to summarise what we're saying is the earlier the start, the sooner you have your building block and from that building block, the curve can step in faster, faster, faster.
Maddy: [00:16:16] Wow.
Sophie: [00:16:17] Faster. We got there. Well done.
Maddy: [00:16:22] So the purpose of this is not to get down if you haven't started already or feel like you haven't started early enough, but it's more just to motivate us and help us understand that starting investing as soon as we are comfortable and investing it really regular intervals can have massive impacts for setting yourself up over the long term for future financial success.
Sophie: [00:16:42] And I think one thing you say there, the two lessons out of this is start as soon as you feel comfortable and invest regularly. [00:16:48][5.9]
Maddy: [00:16:49] Ding, ding, ding.
Sophie: [00:16:51] We have a winner.
Maddy: [00:16:56] And it's our producer, Sasha.
Maddy: [00:16:59] And now it's time for our watch list.
Maddy: [00:17:02] Oh, that's going straight in my basket.
Maddy: [00:17:06] Each episode, we have been adding a stock company news trend industry to our watch list. The purpose of this is to get us thinking outside the box and broaden our horizons in the investing space. But we're not financial advisors and this is purely for educational purposes only and does not constitute financial advice.
Sophie: [00:17:25] So Mad's What are you bringing to the Watchlist this week?
Maddy: [00:17:30] I'm a pretty pumped up about my addition this week. I'm not going to lie
Sophie: [00:17:35] to your Inhorn. Fine.
Maddy: [00:17:37] Let me explain and then you'll understand. OK, so I have been noticing for a little while that crocs are coming back [00:17:45][8.4]
Sophie: [00:17:47] in a big way. I've noticed the [00:17:48][1.7]
Maddy: [00:17:49] same. Some of my favourite accounts on Instagram have started wearing crocs again
Maddy: [00:17:55] and
Maddy: [00:17:56] also long time listeners of the pod know that I have developed a little bit of a Twitter obsession. And I have to tell you, yes, the Crocs Twitter account is out of this world. So tweets include did it hurt when you said you'd never wear crocs again? But now you own multiple pairs as silk is reorganising the javitz on my crocs
Maddy: [00:18:20] was fun
Maddy: [00:18:22] fact crocs easier to slide into than your crushes dams.
Maddy: [00:18:27] But it's so relevant. Oh, that's so funny.
Maddy: [00:18:31] Sorry, I've just got one more. There's this lack trend that they've got going on pets in crocs and they just put up photos of little animals sitting inside crocs. And it's so funny. Cute.
Sophie: [00:18:44] I really need
Maddy: [00:18:44] to check that out.
Maddy: [00:18:46] So Crocs also have some really cool collaboration. So they've got like cool gibbet clouds.
Sophie: [00:18:52] And really I'm really sorry. Going to have to interrupt you.
Maddy: [00:18:55] A cool juvies.
Maddy: [00:18:56] Kulab like you go to see it to believe it. They also recently collaborated with Balenciaga for this spring twenty twenty two collection to produce the crocs to litter and also the crossroads.
Sophie: [00:19:10] I want to see someone like really cool, like rocking the Crocs stiletto because I can't really imagine someone looking amazing in it. But I feel like the people out there that could pull it off like 100 percent.
Maddy: [00:19:20] I don't know if you've seen the image of still stiletto, but it will be challenging to walk in. So I'm not sure, like, whether it's more a piece of art than an actual shoe. I don't know,
Maddy: [00:19:31] because crocs are like rubbery as well. Like is the heel.
Sophie: [00:19:34] Heel must be hard, right. They couldn't have it is like a rug
Maddy: [00:19:37] like this slippery like your toes would crush at the front
Maddy: [00:19:42] end of this Balenciaga like four thousand dollar progs.
Maddy: [00:19:47] So anyway, I was thinking about how is seeing them all around me, they're advertising on Twitter and stuff was really on point. And I started thinking, you know, maybe this is an indication that sales could be increasing. So here I was thinking that I was like super ahead of the trend. I'm really on to something. I was a little disappointed to find that if you had put a thousand dollars into Crocs one year ago. Forty one dollars today, it would be with three thousand seven hundred and twenty dollars because the share price is up two hundred and seventy eight percent.
Sophie: [00:20:22] And is that all because of sales? Like is that because sales are skyrocketing?
Maddy: [00:20:26] Yes. So sales are up over 93 percent in the second quarter of this year. And I think I guess if I take it back a step and I'm trying to figure out what is going on here, I think maybe it's like part of this broader trend in the fashion industry of shifting consumer mindset or covid to really like function over form. It's all about comfort. So about where, you know, who wants to wear high heels and you can wear crocs those we're also
Sophie: [00:20:55] working from home like no one's wearing. My whole house actually have crocs. Like all my housemates have crocs.
Maddy: [00:21:02] Yeah.
Sophie: [00:21:02] Do you know I really have to bias. I actually do they actually wear them every.
Maddy: [00:21:07] Why didn't you get us onto this trend.
Sophie: [00:21:09] I know and it's so funny because like you know, every night we're running down to little together one and Olby. And what happens is, you know, when you're in the house in comfort mode, you have the little strap for it. And when you go outside, it's action mode activated because they put it back so you can run in your crocs, you know, a bit more stability and comfort. Yeah, yeah. It's a real thing. And it's this so many you can find anything to suit your style.
Maddy: [00:21:35] Love it. One thing I would say is I guess maybe right now, given the share price is up so much, it's definitely like more on my watch list than maybe I missed one because I'm not sure I need to do a bit more research. I think there potentially is still upside as crocs become more and more mainstream and into fashion. I do think sales are going to probably keep going up. But I mean, when the share price is up two hundred seventy eight per cent on the last year, how much more is that Iran?
Maddy: [00:22:02] I'm not sure. [00:22:02][0.4]
Maddy: [00:22:04] So what are you adding to our watch list today?
Sophie: [00:22:07] I feel like mine is so boring after following that.
Maddy: [00:22:11] I'm sorry, but it's going to be great. It's going to be great.
Sophie: [00:22:13] So today I am bringing to the Watchlist a block chain. Coles.
Maddy: [00:22:18] Oh yeah, they would.
Sophie: [00:22:19] Arenacross, block chain, block chain. In its simplest form is this technology that it allows for decentralised systems. So if you think about it, I guess like one of the best examples to give is in cryptocurrency because it's used with crypto instead of using a bank where it's like I'm transferring Maddie my money and I'm, you know, relying on the bank to do that. For me, this is it. Chain allows for transparency in transactions that doesn't need that centralised. So in this case, the bank system to run it. So it's around the world, you know, you can say crypto transactions. Anyone can say to them, anyone can access them. And it just shows like every transaction, one after the other without a middleman having to create it for you.
Maddy: [00:22:59] This is really interesting because I didn't know that there actually were ETFs in this space. Yes. Yes.
Sophie: [00:23:05] So obviously, whenever there's a big trend happening in block Chinese, one of them at the moment, I believe there's obviously companies that are working on, number one, the technology to make it better, the block chain technology. And then there's also going to be a bunch of companies who are starting to utilise the block chain technology to better their companies in whichever way. And I use crypto as one example, but there's many of examples that you can use block chain. So I haven't decided on the ETF that I'm bringing. There's a couple of them. There's one called Block B.L.. Okay. And another one called I don't know what how you pronounce B, C, N,
Maddy: [00:23:40] and what are some of the major holdings in these ETFs? What actual what companies you actually investing in?
Sophie: [00:23:46] Yes. So as I said, there's some companies that are starting to really use this technology. You look at the consulting company like Accenture, companies like Square because they have a lot of payments, payment systems. But then you've also got companies like Coinbase who are a crypto brokerage platform or a crypto platform. And then there's other companies as well who are actually building up these types of technologies. So it kind of gives you a broad range across people who are using it and people who are developing it. And I'm really interested in looking into that. Some of them at the moment. I've got to do a little bit more comparison myself, but I just think this is one of the technologies that companies are really going to start utilising in the future as consumers want a lot more transparency in every aspect of our life.
Maddy: [00:24:29] Pretty much I quite like this as well, because it sort of gives you some exposure to that whole lack crypto block chain fame without having to hit like one random coin.
Sophie: [00:24:40] And also it kind of gives, like, in my mind, like I'm starting to learn more about crypto currencies at the moment, but it doesn't mean that I necessarily have to buy into cryptocurrency to get the exposure to the really cool technology that's behind it. Like, I'm very tech orientated. And yeah, I just think this is a really cool one to watch, even if you don't buy into it, just to say, you know, where we're heading in the future with the Internet. I mean, what's in it? Mark Zuckerberg the other day with the metaverse, like the Internet being all around us, I just think these things are going to be such transformative parts of society.
Maddy: [00:25:10] Nice. Well, that brings us to the end of. Today's episode, as always, if you have any questions about today's episode, if you want to give us your thoughts on Crock's and whether there's much upside, please jump into our dms on Instagram, YIGC podcast or post on our Facebook group,
Sophie: [00:25:30] YIGC Investing Podcast, Discussion Group. And you know where I've been. I have been studying that name because the disclaimer to everyone where you did like a live panel event last week, now here last week and Madie fully put herself on when they were like, where can we find you guys? And I just saw many singer mooched and now I'm going to say the Facebook name. And it was
Maddy: [00:25:51] her that was the ultimate test on a live event. I was like, this is pretty awesome.
Sophie: [00:25:56] So you smirk. And I was like, what the hell?
Maddy: [00:25:59] This is not a trusting relationship.
Maddy: [00:26:02] You can also find us on Twitter and Tik-tok or leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform. We love reading them
Sophie: [00:26:09] and we will speak to hear from you. Talk to you next week.
Maddy: [00:26:15] Bye.