CEO Series: Vic Jokovic on Transforming the Australian Investment Market | Chi-X Australia

HOSTS Alec Renehan & Bryce Leske|2 September, 2021

Meet your hosts

  • Alec Renehan

    Alec developed an interest in investing after realising he was spending all that he was earning. Investing became his form of 'forced saving'. While his first investment, Slater and Gordon (SGH), was a resounding failure, he learnt a lot from that experience. He hopes to share those lessons amongst others through the podcast and help people realise that if he can make money investing, anyone can.
  • Bryce Leske

    Bryce has had an interest in the stock market since his parents encouraged him to save 50c a fortnight from the age of 5. Once he had saved $500 he bought his first stock - BKI - a Listed Investment Company (LIC), and since then hasn't stopped. He hopes that Equity Mates can help make investing understandable and accessible. He loves the Essendon Football Club, and lives in Sydney.

In this episode, Bryce and Alec talk to Vic Jokovic. Vic is the CEO of Chi-X Australia, a securities and derivatives exchange looking to disrupt the Australian investment market. Prior to joining Chi-X in 2018, Vic spent 26 years at Deutsche Bank finishing as Managing Director. In this conversation they talk about how the Australian market benefits from the competition of a second exchange option, the innovations Chi-X has introduced for consumers, and the implications of CBOE Global Markets acquiring the company.

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Bryce: [00:00:15] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast that follows our journey of investing, whether you're an absolute beginner or approaching Warren Buffett status. Our aim is to help break down your barriers from beginning to dividend. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How are you going? [00:00:29][14.5]

Alec: [00:00:30] I'm very good. Bryce very excited for this CEO series interview we've spoken to a number of business leaders across Australia are doing some really interesting things and we're sort of returning to home with this series. We're going to be talking to a business leader who's, you know, disrupting the investing and trading industry. [00:00:53][23.7]

Bryce: [00:00:54] That's right, Ren. It is our absolute pleasure to welcome Vic Jokovic from Chi-X. Welcome to Equity Mates. [00:01:00][5.7]

Vic Jokovic: [00:01:01] Hi Bryce and I Ren nice to be on. [00:01:04][2.8]

Bryce: [00:01:04] So for those of you who haven't come across a week before, he is the CEO of Chi-X Australia, a securities and derivatives exchange looking to disrupt the Australian investment market. And we're going to unpack all of that in a second. Prior to joining Chi-X in 2018, Vic spent 26 years at Deutsche Bank finishing as managing director. So, as always, with our CEO series, we're going to be covering off company basics, what it's like to be competing with the ASX at the moment and then closing out with some conversation around people and culture and then future plans for Chi-X. So, Vic, we're looking forward to this one, but as always, Ren, we'll start with company basics. [00:01:42][37.4]

Alec: [00:01:43] That's right. Vic, we like to start these interviews by having the company leader describe their company in their own words. So to kick us off today, what is Chi-X? [00:01:54][11.3]

Vic Jokovic: [00:01:55] Thanks for having me on. Okay, so many investors may not know that Australia has two large stock exchanges. And so when when you place an order with your broker, it's likely that that order will not only touch the ASX, but it will also touch Chi-X. So in terms of background Chi-X started back in 2010 as a disruptor. So if you think of Aldi disrupting Coles and Woolworths or Uber disrupting the taxi industry, so to try it came in to disrupt and compete with the ASX that had been a monopoly exchange provider, which still is across many of its businesses for a long time. So ASX has been around for 150 years. We've been around for about 10 years. So I'll be pleased to take you through what we've been able to do in those 10 years. But most of you out there listening will have executed, bought and sold shares on Chi-X without even knowing it. [00:03:05][70.4]

Bryce: [00:03:06] Well there you go. Nothing like a bit of healthy competition and very much looking forward to unpacking that. But, you know, for many beginner investors, there's no doubt this would be the first time that they learn Australia actually has stock exchanges outside of the ASX. So what should we know about Chi-X? Like what services do you offer and what are some of the kind of companies and funds that actually list on Chi-X? [00:03:30][23.6]

Vic Jokovic: [00:03:32] So in terms of trading, each day, Australia sees about five or six big days, seven, eight billion dollars of trading, and on an average day, around one and a half billion dollars of trading is executed on Chi-X. And obviously the balance on the ASX, we have close to 20 per cent market share. And to start with the trading piece, when you place an order with your broker, most brokers and there are about 60 stockbroking firms in Australia will have a smart order router. So a machine, if you like, that routs those orders to the exchange that has the best price in the market. So for most, not all, but most brokers, those orders will be sent to Chi-X and the ASX. As an example, if you're if you're a client of the largest online broker, CommSec, then they will rout to Chi-X. If Chi-X's is price provider charges, price is equivalent to the ASX as Bryce, it will then route to the ASX. So you will take a bite, if you like, or be able to trade across both exchanges. To finish off on that, there are about twenty three hundred companies that are listed in Australia. All of those companies are listed on the ASX, but they are available to trade on both ASX and Chi-X. And then in terms of unique products, you know, Chi-X gives investors the ability to be able to buy and sell US stocks through the day in Australia during Australian trading hours, in Australian dollars, in names like Apple and Microsoft, Zoom, Berkshire. About half of the S&P 500, the large US index, about half of those stocks by market cap, which amounts to about sort of 40 very large corporate names. They're all available for trading on Chi-X, not on the ASX, only available on Chi-X. So those brokers that are connected give their clients the ability to trade US stocks. And then there's some other aspects that we have as well that are unique to Chi-X. We have a number of fund managers like Magellan, Schroder's, Janice Henderson, Alliance Bernstein. There are nine fund managers that have now listed their products on on Chi-X as well. So only available for those brokers connected to Chi-X. [00:06:14][162.8]

Bryce: [00:06:15] So let's move to the ASX and what it's like competing with them. In our mind, the ASX is close to a monopoly, as we see in Australia's economy is as anything really. So let's start with the problem. Like why is that ASX dominance a problem if it is, and why should we as investors want to see a second exchange? [00:06:37][21.4]

Vic Jokovic: [00:06:39] Yeah, look, I mean, it's pretty simple or there's a simple response to that. Every product, every consumer benefits from competition. So, you know, if they're if there's no pricing tension when you have a monopoly provider of a product, then obviously it's it's not as good for the consumer and it's great for the monopoly provider because there's no need to to adjust pricing. And, you know, I used the example earlier of retail. Imagine a Woolworths without the competition of a Coles or of late an Aldi or a Telstra without the competition that we saw coming in from an Optus or other providers. And look, yes, the ASX is a monopoly provider across a lot of what they do. Ultimately, brokers take a trade that your listeners will place through through their broker and they execute that on the ASX. But there is an alternative in Chi-X at the moment, and that's meant that the fees that are charged by the exchanges, certainly by Chi-X, are significantly lower than what we saw the ASX charging in the past and in fact, what the ASX charge is now. So ultimately better for the broker. And therefore, there is an ability and we've seen it in recent years for brokers to reduce their commission rates. And, you know, I've been around for a long time, and I know that when I started in broking over 30 years ago, a normal commission rate was about two per cent of the cost of the trade. And you compare that with commission rates. Now, there's there's obviously competition over time has helped those commission rates fall. [00:08:24][105.4]

Bryce: [00:08:25] So what sort of things are you doing to approach actually trying to disrupt the ASX and taking some of that market share? I mean, is it all on price? It's you're obviously offering companies on the exchange that the ASX aren't. How are you approaching this? [00:08:38][13.0]

Vic Jokovic: [00:08:38] So, look, it can't be about or simply be about price. It needs to be about other things. And and clearly, innovation. When you've got large providers that have been in a market for a long time, they tend to be bureaucratic. They tend to be slow in innovating because they don't really need to innovate quickly in that they have the market to themselves. So what we've done is we've introduced new product to the market. [00:09:04][25.3]

Bryce: [00:09:04] One of those has been Trace's, which is access to those US names that I mentioned earlier. So if you want to buy Apple, you can buy them via this trace a product that, again, brokers connected to Chi-X have access to. And that gives you the ability to buy those large brands during Australian trading hours. And importantly, they sit on your pin, on your Holder ID number so they feel look exactly like buying Telstra or BHP. But you're able to buy a Zoom or a Berkshire and they're priced in Aussie dollar. So the effect is built in. So that's that's another product. And then then others, this this latest growth that we've seen in the ETF market, you know, Chi-X has been at the forefront of that. So there's been a lot of innovation in terms of that exchange traded fund market in Australia. And Chi-X has helped facilitate a number of new active managers coming to market. And again, I mentioned, you know, AllianceBernstein and Schroder's and and Janice Henderson and Magellan bringing new product to market that perhaps wouldn't have got to market without Chi-X's innovation. [00:10:22][78.1]

Alec: [00:10:24] Yeah, on that point, we've recently spoken to a few of the Magellan fund managers and Magellan opted to list their core series of funds just on Chi-X and not on the ASX. How do you go about trying to compete for those listings with, you know, the giant that is the ASX? [00:10:44][20.9]

Bryce: [00:10:46] Yeah, yeah. Look, and it's always it's never straightforward. You know, they have significantly greater resources, headcount, money to throw at projects. But, you know, we've been very focussed on the areas that obviously where we're competing with the ASX on. And if you think about the ASX, it's it has many limbs. It has many businesses. And we're only at this point competing with the ASX on a few of those businesses. So we've been very focussed. And I think in in that ETF piece and you mentioned Magellan and the core series, it was about our speed to market, helping them to navigate the world of exchanges, working with them and the regulator, ASIC, in terms of, you know, the rule requirements. For them to bring some of these new products to market, so it's about speed and innovation as much as it is about pricing, and certainly we were cheaper. So that's also a consideration. [00:11:50][64.1]

Bryce: [00:11:51] So the Asia Pacific was recently acquired by CBOE Global Markets there, the owner of the Chicago Board Options Exchange. What is this acquisition mean for Chi-X? [00:12:03][11.9]

Bryce: [00:12:04] Yeah, it's it is, you know, CBOE or a scale exchange. So, again, many people don't really understand the world of exchanges outside of the ASX, but there are many stock exchanges that are significantly larger. Cebo CBOE is one of those. It operates in the US. So it's, I think, the third largest exchange in the US, but it is one of the largest, if not the largest exchange in Europe and operates one of the big clearinghouses in Europe. If anyone knows anything about volatility or trades volatility, there is an index called the VIX Index, which is traded on CBOE indices on the CBOE Exchange. So they own it and that's the home of VIX trading and importantly, CBOE, the one of the world's largest derivatives exchanges. So it's a scale exchange that has taken over Chi-X's business in Australia. And what does it mean for for Australia? It means that over time we're going to see a whole lot more competition because CBOE has the scale to take the ASX on across most of what it does. It also means that that Australia for the first time will have a truly global exchange operating within its shores that will be able to bring global global access to access to other markets around the globe. And whilst Tracer's was a product that Chi-X brought to market, CBOE extends that a lot further. I mean, CBOE has exchange operations in 15 odd countries in Europe, in North America, Canada, Australia, now and Japan. So it's a very different operation to a very Australia centric exchange in the ASX. [00:14:05][121.2]

Bryce: [00:14:06] So you've mentioned Trace's there a couple of times, and I just want to follow up on that. For those at home who are wanting to play along and jumping on your website. How do you know if the broker that you're with is hooked into you guys? If you if they wanted to? For example, I'm looking at the Apple tracer at the moment. How do you know? [00:14:25][18.7]

Bryce: [00:14:27] So you can go to our website and check on those brokers that are already providing access to Trace's. You can ask your broker. Most of the larger you know, the tech savvy brokers and the larger brokers are connected. There's a number of brokers that are connecting at the moment. So when you think about, again, the that the world of stockbroking in Australia, I mentioned 60 stockbroking firms operate in Australia from the very largest institutional brokers down to, you know, your smaller operations with two or three staff. Of those 60 odd, about 50 five zero are connected and operating and sending orders to clients every day. But within that 50, I think a subset of that, around 20 are currently connected in terms of using our Trace's product. So it's worth checking with your broker. [00:15:30][62.5]

Alec: [00:15:30] So, Vic, on the on the CBOE acquisition, you know, they're obviously a I guess, a giant company in their own right. And we were excited to, I guess, say what that means for Australian investors, having them, you know, expand their presence with this acquisition. What sort of new innovations or products or services should we, as Australian retail investors expect to see try to bring to market in the coming years? [00:16:01][30.8]

Vic Jokovic: [00:16:02] Sure. You'd expect us to look to compete with the ASX across a lot of their products, so we are competing across the warrant market already. We have about 35 per cent market share of the of the Australian warrant market. We're competing in the trading of ETFs. As I said, we've got about 35 per cent of that ETF market and as I mentioned, about 20 per cent of the the daily trading in shares. But we're not competing in that across many of the derivatives products. You know, and that is a very large product set in Australia. And it is part of CBOE's DNA being the largest options exchange in the world. You'd expect one of the first things we'll look at is options trading, broadening out the warrant market, bringing more of these ETFs to market. CBOE has six hundred exchange traded funds listed, whereas the ASX has about 200. So CBOE has scale. I'd like to see some of those global products available for trading down here so that, you know, retail clients in particular can get access to products that haven't had access to before. And then, you know, an area that I think almost everyone other than the ASX have been keen on for many years in terms of competition is clearing and settlement. And I know that, again, you know, a lot of people listening probably don't think too much about clearing and settlement, how a trade goes from the exchange and it's cleared and settled and then find its way back into their account. But it's incredibly expensive in Australia and it means that brokers don't have a lot of latitude to shrink those commission rates even further because they're being charged, those clearing and settlement fees, which are, you know, passed on to the end user. So I'd say over time we'll look at that area as well. None of none of these things are easy lifts. They will take time. But certainly, you know, that's that's another aspect of what ASX do that we will look at. But, you know, if I if I summed it up as, you know, in terms of the most important aspects, I would say in access to international product that Australian investors really haven't had access to or access has been difficult. [00:18:33][150.7]

Alec: [00:18:34] So we obviously look over at the US and they have two major exchanges that compete for company listings, the Nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange. Is that is that sort of long term, if you think about what this acquisition means and what Chi-X could become, is that something that could be on the horizon? We have you know, if companies want to go public when Bryce and I want to take Equity Mates public, one day we'll have the ASX and Chi-X both courting us. [00:19:01][27.2]

Vic Jokovic: [00:19:01] Absolutely. I look forward. I look forward to recording, because when we can get back and actually have a lunch or a dinner or my lunch, yeah, yeah, I am missing the long lunches. Look, you know, that's the other aspect. And I didn't mention that. And I should have mentioned that listing listing corporate names is an important part of what almost every exchange does. And and you're right, in the US, the two listing exchanges are, you know, noisy New York Stock Exchange and Nasdaq. And interestingly, you know, they they have a different set of of corporates listed on them. Nasdaq has carved out this this incredible business in terms of listing primarily technology names. Is there room for that in Australia? You know, we've seen how successful Australia has been in terms of of innovating and some of the success stories over the course of the last, particularly over the course of the last 24 months, really over the last couple of years. You know, I'd like to think that that there's an opportunity for that to happen in Australia, a competing exchange for four primary listings. And that's something we're looking at as well. So we'll be scoping that out over time. And the idea would be to to have a strategy that that that brings something new to the market. It's no good just offering an additional service at potentially a slightly lower price. And that's it. You know, there's got to be some strategy around it, be it an exchange for the technology names or some other aspect that Australia excels at. [00:20:49][107.6]

Bryce: [00:20:50] Be epic to see the Nasdaq 100 equivalent grow out here in Australia. So we often hear that understanding management and how, you know, the people within the businesses is very important when it comes to investing. So we'd love to hear how you think about about your leadership. Do you have a leadership philosophy as CEO? [00:21:18][28.9]

Vic Jokovic: [00:21:19] Look, I do, mine is simple. And I spent many years at Deutsche Bank. It's a much bigger organisation, obviously, than than Chi-X, but an organisation that that taught me a number of things about, you know, communicating with staff. I mean, that's that's one key takeaway for me is the open door policy. We are small, so we benefit from being small and and flat management. But open communication is key. You know, we have many very talented people working at Chi-X. I mean, it is a technology disruptor foremost. So that makes my job easy. I lean on on my people who are very good at what they do. But open communications is probably the number one takeaway. Secondly, you know, flexibility. We've all been introduced to flexibility in the workplace through Covid. And I think that's certainly not going away and is certainly an aspect of what I think we do better than most organisations. The ability to work from home was an aspect that we certainly had prior to Covid, but we've shown that things work and can work very well in a Covid environment. And the other the other aspect is also a client centric business. We are you know, you asked about Magellan and other fund managers that are coming to us of the philosophy for any new business. Competing with a large incumbent is to just look after clients a little bit better or a lot better, hopefully, than their new competitor. And that's served us very well. So we are very focussed on our customers. And I know that CBOE, it's a perfect fit for us because they have the same philosophy. It's it's really put the client first and and your business will ultimately be a success on the basis of that. [00:23:27][127.4]

Bryce: [00:23:28] It's also worth mentioning that CBOE is listed in the US. So for those listening and loving what they're hearing and want to be involved in the child's journey, they can do so. It's listed on the BATS Exchange, which is CBOE Exchange. So opportunity to to get involved in the story. And that's a good sort of Segway, you know, as CEO of a company that has recently been acquired. How did you, like, navigate through that transition and bring your team along on that journey, integrate them into CBOE culture? [00:24:01][33.8]

Vic Jokovic: [00:24:02] Sure. So it was different. I was involved in, you know, having been with an investment bank for most of my career prior to Chi-X. It was a very new experience. And for anyone that's been involved in a takeover or any sort of corporate activity over the last 18 months, almost all of it has been done via, you know, conferencing. So we were able or conferencing services between, you know, blue jeans and Tees and others. We were able to bring in many people in Chicago, Kansas City, London into these negotiations with people at J.C. Flowers, the private equity owners that owned Chi-X. Prior to CBOE, you know, they were sitting in London and New York and we were sitting in Sydney. And these conversations were happening, unfortunately, late at night, but to accommodate everyone. But it was a completely new experience. So that was one aspect. And that was then. Then you had the challenge of relying and including that to, you know, your staff in Australia. And, you know, I spoke about open communication. We needed to communicate what we could and mean. Much of it was confidential. But when we got to the point where we were able to realise some of that to staff, again, new experience, we weren't all in a room. Much of it was being done, but pulling everyone onto onto a call, but happened successfully and we got through it. [00:25:38][95.4]

Bryce: [00:25:38] So not only missing the long lunches, but now missing international opportunities to get deals done. [00:25:43][4.7]

Vic Jokovic: [00:25:44] I should say short lunches, long lunches are a thing of the past for anyone that that knows brokers. They were they were a feature. And and if you don't know, you know, the market used to stop at 12, 15 in Australia and not resume. Trading tool, so there was a blank period of of an hour and 45 minutes, probably up until about sort of 10 or 15 years ago. Now there's trading right through our go. Yeah, but it's interesting because if you look at trading patterns in the market yourselves, you'll still see volumes really reduce over that 12, 15 to 2:00 p.m. period when brokers still take their losses. So far, the market may still be trading, but there's certainly a lull in the middle of the day. [00:26:38][53.3]

Bryce: [00:26:38] There you go. We did we were lucky enough a couple of years ago to actually go and have a tour of the Japanese stock exchange and they still shut down over lunch as well and go on have a bit of a break. So that's fascinating that Australia used to do the same. We would like to sort of close out with a few questions around the future plans of Chi-X. You mentioned there that you're an innovator and a disruptor and we love to see it. We sort of think the same here in terms of what we're trying to do with financial media. So what is the next 12 months look like for Chi-X? Is there anything you're able to reveal in the pipeline? And I think specifically from a selfish point of view, are we going to see some European stocks come to the market? [00:27:19][41.0]

Vic Jokovic: [00:27:20] So the next 12 months are busy, which is good. You know, I mentioned technology. The technology platform we have here is critical, obviously, to everything we do. And generally disruptors tend to have better technology than the incumbent. And certainly in the case of CBOE, we're very interested in much of their technology. That is you a market leading. So step one, start to import some of the things that they do very, very well, which will underpin product going forward. So that's step one. And in that regard, we're out hiring, so we will grow our headcount significantly. So that's step one there, technology. Step two, there's a few products that we'd like to get running with right away. One we've been public with is a product called Bids. BIDS, it's it's a little technical. I won't go into that. Exactly. But Australia is a market that has seen a lot of block trading and it's really at the institutional side of town. So it's not so much for retail clients and bids is an electronic block platform. So that's happening. And then, you know, Trace's, we spent some time on that. And to your point, around Europe, there could be the potential to extend out the 41 large blue chip US names to European names. And I think worth also looking at Asian names as well. When you think about Alibaba and Tencent and others, I think there'd be a large demand. And the nice thing about this is that Trace's product is that you can call your local broker. You don't need to be worried about trading overnight. You can get a price during trading hours. In Australia, it's priced in Aussie Dollars it moves in line with the US dollar price, overseas effects adjusted and it sits on your Hintze sits alongside or alongside your other shares if you have any. So it's nice and neat. It's also good in terms of your accounting at year end because you don't have all those separate things that you need to deal with when you're dealing directly internationally. So yeah, it'd be nice to get European names there and Asian names there as well. [00:29:56][156.3]

Bryce: [00:29:56] Yeah, it would be epic. Just to close out the Tracer conversation. I know that there are probably a lot of questions going to come through as a result of this. Do you actually own the stock or are you just a beneficiary? [00:30:08][11.6]

Vic Jokovic: [00:30:09] Yeah, you are a beneficiary. So every trace is the equivalent to a underlying share. So it looks the same. It feels the same. It moves in line with the international stock again, if it's adjusted. Either way, when you buy shares directly, you need to do the the effects or you will have those effects movements in any way. And one of the nice things is that Deutsche Bank, the the issuer of tracer's, actually does the effects for you. So it's it's there in the price that's quoted on Chi-X and it's done at wholesale wholesale rates. And one of the key things that retail clients should keep in mind when they're buying overseas shares is, you know, if they're commission. For or, you know, there's some other aspect to them is that, you know, the largest cost in buying an offshore stock is often the effects that's included and the FX rate. So that's that's often invisible, but it's something you should think about and you should certainly ask your broker about. [00:31:22][72.9]

Bryce: [00:31:23] Yeah, absolutely. Well, it would be great to see Alibaba and potentially Tencent on All Things Considered, what's going on in Asian markets at the moment. But look, we'll certainly watch this space. What do you think is the greatest risk for Chi-X and your business right now? [00:31:38][15.6]

Vic Jokovic: [00:31:40] Oh, look, it's an interesting market. So, you know, it's it's a it's an incredibly buoyant market, obviously driven by government stimulus, low, incredibly low rates. So it's it's well underpinned. Not a lot of concern around inflation. I have concerns about inflation creeping back in and real real rates of inflation and what that might mean for markets. Fortunately, you know, exchanges, if there's periods of heavy volatility like we saw in March, April last year, trading levels go up. So it could be a good thing for for all exchanges. But, you know, a period of uncertainty at some point would lead to lower trading, which would not be good for us. So that's that's one aspect. Look and look. The ASX is very good at what it does. And we've talked about the monopoly provision of many of their products. You know, they're very good at it, pushing back. And as most monopoly providers are, they're very, very good at lobbying against any competition. So there's always that aspect. So we we manage that well and we have a pretty good relationship with the ASX, but there's always that. So really, it's, you know, levels of volumes in the market and and lobbying from from our competitor that would cause US issues and migration of any technology. We always need to be mindful that those things need to be done very, very carefully. And we saw the issues that the ASX had in migrating technology when they had that outage in November of last year. It can cause, you know, clients and brokers a lot of pain if it's not done in the right way. [00:33:45][124.2]

Alec: [00:33:46] Now, Vic, we want to say a massive thank you for taking the time and joining us today. It's it's a pretty fascinating story that Chi-X is building. And we love competition in any market, but especially in exchanges, which affects us as investors so much. [00:34:02][16.1]

Vic Jokovic: [00:34:03] Yeah, look, my pleasure being on it. It's hard to it's it's probably hard to make an exciting story out of out of talking about, you know, exchanges in the exchange world. But it is it's interesting in that exchanges are no different to most other businesses. They're evolving. And and it's a good thing because you want to give consumers clients access to new things and innovate. And I think Australia's been very inward focussed. You know, Australians have mainly bought Australian property and Australian shares. And there's a whole world out there outside there. If it was easier to get access to it, then I think ultimately investors would benefit. So, you know, happy to have had the conversation with you. [00:34:57][53.8]

Alec: [00:34:57] So we always like to finish with a final question about the long term vision for, you know, for these companies. And if you think about trying in 10 or 20 years from now, what a success look like. [00:35:12][15.1]

Vic Jokovic: [00:35:13] Yeah, look, success in ten years time, that's that's a world away success for me will be lying somewhere in on a banana chair by a pool or or of travelling. But success for Chi-X ten years out would see it as a much larger competitor to the ASX. I think operating across businesses that perhaps even ASX doesn't think it will see competition in. So that would be success. I think at that point I made around international access is incredibly important and I'd like to see CBOE Australia and we will change our name. It won't be Chi-X, it'll be CBOE Australia probably within the next six months. That CBOE Australia, the former Chi-X, offers a broad access to international markets. I think that's that's the that's the end game for CBOE, you know, even sooner than that, but certainly 10 years out. So a large competitor, hopefully a larger competitor than the ASX in the domestic market and and all the benefits that competition brings to the end user. I think that's what I'd like to see in 10 years time. And I think I think the other piece is that the exciting thing about these disruptors that are coming into the market is it's a whole new way of doing things and additional opportunities for not just investors, but people in the workplace as well to join these organisations. So I think we'll be a lot larger in terms of of people as well. So so I think a good thing for Australia's financial markets and a good thing for, you know, for the market more broadly, [00:37:09][116.4]

Bryce: [00:37:10] you know, certainly looking forward to seeing it all play out. You mentioned the CBOE Australia rename. So you're going to have a CBOE Australia Investor Day coming up to hear from some of Australia's best investors for those of the Equity Mates community who are keen to be part of that, able just to give a quick rundown on what that day's about. [00:37:31][20.3]

Vic Jokovic: [00:37:31] Sure. So it's on the 19th of October or planned to be the 19th of October. Are things moving around Covid again? But it is virtual. We're going to be having a number of Australia's leading fund managers in particular presenting. So you'll be able to hear from them about, you know, what they look for and certainly, you know, their their philosophy in terms of investing. So I think it's a positive it's free. So if you jump on Investor Day at You'll be able to get the details and register. And it's it's certainly going to be a feature of what we do going forward. So this is the first and it's being done with the Ausbiz platform. Yeah. [00:38:33][61.9]

Bryce: [00:38:33] Nice. Well I would suggest anyone in our community it's always good to hear from investors around Australia. So tune in if you have the opportunity. That's Investor Day at Send them an email and they'll get in touch with more information. And we very much appreciate you coming on the show. It's always great to hear from leaders who are trying to disrupt and innovate, and we very much look forward to seeing how the journey of CBOE or CBOE Australia plays out. [00:39:05][31.6]

Vic Jokovic: [00:39:05] Great. Thanks very much. Nice to talk to you. [00:39:05][0.0]


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