CEO Series: Orni Daniel – Co-CEO of Gefen Technologies on Going Public During COVID

HOSTS Alec Renehan & Bryce Leske|1 October, 2020

Meet your hosts

  • Alec Renehan

    Alec developed an interest in investing after realising he was spending all that he was earning. Investing became his form of 'forced saving'. While his first investment, Slater and Gordon (SGH), was a resounding failure, he learnt a lot from that experience. He hopes to share those lessons amongst others through the podcast and help people realise that if he can make money investing, anyone can.
  • Bryce Leske

    Bryce has had an interest in the stock market since his parents encouraged him to save 50c a fortnight from the age of 5. Once he had saved $500 he bought his first stock - BKI - a Listed Investment Company (LIC), and since then hasn't stopped. He hopes that Equity Mates can help make investing understandable and accessible. He loves the Essendon Football Club, and lives in Sydney.

In this episode we were joined by Orni Daniel, the Co-CEO of Israeli Software as a Service (SaaS) business Gefen Technologies. Orni is currently guiding Gefen through the Initial Public Offering (IPO) process, with plans to list on the ASX by the end of 2020.

We were particularly interested in how the IPO process has been affected by COVID-19 and why an Israeli company would choose to list in Australia, so we get into these topics amongst others in this interview.

In this episode you will learn:

  • Orni’s background and how he came to co-found Gefen Technologies
  • What Gefen’s SaaS product does and the problem it is solving
  • Orni’s management philosophy and how he approaches leading Gefen
  • Gefen’s growth story to date and why it decided now was the right time to IPO
  • Why Gefen chose to list on the ASX
  • How COVID affected the IPO process
  • What were some of the biggest learnings during the IPO process


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Bryce Leske: [00:01:28] Welcome to another episode of Equity Mates, a podcast where we help you learn to invest in forty five minutes or less. We break down the world of investing from beginning to dividend so that you can hopefully make some returns. My name is Bryce and as always, I'm joined by my equity buddy Ren. How's it going, bro? [00:01:43][15.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:01:44] I'm very good, Bryce. I'm very excited for this episode. We've had a big week of content this week, all centered around the IPO process. You know, I'm loving learning about this process and speaking to some of the CEOs involved in this process. So today's episode is going to continue that. And I'm very excited to get stuck in [00:02:02][18.8]

Bryce Leske: [00:02:03] absolutely Ren we are going to be doing more content around IPOs and the process going forward. If you haven't already listened to the episodes that Ren was just referring to towards the start of this week, make sure you go and do as we really delve into the process that companies can go through leading up to an IPO. And then what we want to do is actually go out and speak to some of the companies that are going through the process themselves, which is why in today's episode, we are going to unpack Geffen Technologies with the co-founder and co CEO only Daniel Oni. Welcome to the show. [00:02:36][33.0]

Orni Daniel: [00:02:36] Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. [00:02:38][1.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:02:38] So Gefen are about to IPO. And as I said, what we want to do in this episode is get an idea of the journey of the company, Geffen Technologies, what they want to IPO for and expose you to the information that you might otherwise find difficult to find. So only very much looking forward to unpacking all of that. But I guess before we do, perhaps, are you able to introduce yourself and give us a bit of a background as to how you came to be CEO of Geffen? [00:03:05][26.9]

Orni Daniel: [00:03:06] So I am born and raised in Israel. I'm 44 years old. I have a three beautiful kids age 11, nine ninety seven started my career, my professional career in the Army. You're today mandatory with the Air Force Academy, and I'm finishing up as a fighter pilot. A fly F-16, by the way, still do on reserves. Yeah. So it's my third company already. And to be honest, we started off this journey as a global e-commerce and we've developed the next phase was that developing the platform technology for our own needs. And then we realized that there was a much larger market that we could serve. So we have shifted toward serving enterprises and independent brokers, advisors. So this is how we ended up with this company. It's a long journey, I must say, a very successful one. That's basically it [00:04:06][60.1]

Bryce Leske: [00:04:07] only. Where do you find the time to launch? Three companies have three kids and fly fighter planes [00:04:12][4.8]

Orni Daniel: [00:04:13] so it doesn't happen all on the same day. So I've been flying for twenty five years already. You're right. If I wouldn't have the support of my family, it would be much difficult. But they're used to it. There will all by you married my wife when she was already a pilot. I was a deputy squadron commander when we got married. So they're used to my roller coaster life and they have their support and I'm blessed for that. [00:04:41][27.6]

Alec Renehan: [00:04:42] So only the way we want to structure this conversation is in the first part of the conversation. Understand what Geffen is and what you do there. And then in the second part of the conversation, really get stuck into the IPO process. And I think for a number of listeners, they would have picked up based in Israel. But you're listing halfway across the world in Australia. So we're interested to understand why the ASX and what attracted you to Australia, but we'll get to that later. So I'm sure there's a lot of listeners that haven't heard of Giffin technologies before. So maybe if we can start at the very beginning, what is Geffen and what do you do? [00:05:18][36.4]

Orni Daniel: [00:05:18] The government budget is a digital platform provider that empowers and transforms agents based networks in sectors like insurance, finance, real estate, electronics, pharmaceutical, health, etc. Basically, any sector that needs to have the mediator layer the level of the advisors, agents and brokers. [00:05:40][21.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:05:41] You mentioned that you started the company because you realized it was something you needed. So what is the problem that Geffen is actually solving here? Why do we need Geffen Technologies? [00:05:51][10.0]

Orni Daniel: [00:05:52] Yes, very good question. So in order to understand, let's look at the environment that we are leaving it. So far, none complex products, commodities. We don't need immediate Auclair. We don't need the device or the agents. Amazon and I like sold it all digitally for complex products, life insurance, savings or buying a house, for example. We do need the mediators, the advisors and why we need their expertize to explain to us the customers what we need exactly and what could fit our needs. Now to the problem. How do they communicate or interact with us? The change in the last ten years. Those advisers are not digital experts nor tech savvy. So not only they need to fit to the customer's expectations to evolve digitally. They also need to be fully compliant, communicate according to the regulation and represent will the respective brings the carriers [00:06:43][51.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:06:44] just to clarify the platform. It's not replacing agents in the sales process of products like life insurance and stuff like that, but it's actually a platform to help them better communicate digitally with potential customers, is that correct? [00:06:59][14.8]

Orni Daniel: [00:06:59] Absolutely. It's empowering them. So we believe for complex products. I mean, there is a lot of evolution in the process, but we biological ways, we don't evolve information wise. We do get more information, but we don't have as individuals and customers, they all the expertize needed for any issue or topic in the world. So we do need the experts in some complex products to advise us. So we believe they are here and here to stay. But the way the work needs to be shifted, [00:07:32][33.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:07:33] you're competing with some pretty big platforms around the world that help salespeople and agents track their sales and sells product. I guess I'm going to ask you this in a way that lets you give us the elevator pitch for Giffin. How are you solving this problem better than some of those other platforms or what's unique or better about Geffen? [00:07:52][19.4]

Orni Daniel: [00:07:53] So we've built a flexible platform. And you're right, we're not really competing with the cells enablers that we have built a hybrid platform that on the one hand, it is enterprise. Great to be fully operated by the enterprise professional employees. Do you have a lot of enterprise, a great software, but on the other hand, the advisors, the agents that are not professional employees, so they get an app that is like a consumer product, meaning no learning curve nor education process. So if you have a smartphone and you know how to text message, you're good to go. Just like if you're buying a new iPhone, for example, you don't get an Apple team to come and goes with you through the process, unlike enterprise software. So we're kind of a hybrid platform. All the data content, communication and all digital channels are driven automatically and smoothly in a cycle. Look from the carrier. The brands, through the agents to the customers know the data is being analyzed automatically and mediation process is happening at the back office. So the agents and advisors are being empowered with everything that is being automatically personalized to them and to their customers. It saves them a lot of time and for the first time it allows them to appear in all digital channels the customers would expect them to be. It improves their productivity dramatically and allows them to better serve the customers. Now, at the end of the day, when they get better and positive feedback from the customers, it improves their relationship and engagement with build the platform so it can feed any org structure in any sector, in any size and scale from an enterprise that sells their products and services through hundreds of thousands of agents in terms of different countries all the way down to an independent broker working on his own. The problem, the platform fits all with an ability to go live within days. I believe that's what sets us apart from other enterprise software. [00:09:53][120.0]

Bryce Leske: [00:09:54] So only that's a bit about what Geffen does and how you are sort of solving that problem better than some of your competitors. I guess one of the other important aspects to consider for those who would be looking to invest in companies that are coming to market is to get an understanding of where you actually are in your business cycle. What has been sort of the growth story to get to here? How is revenue growing traction? Customers is a global application are able to just sort of start and talk us through the growth story? [00:10:24][30.7]

Orni Daniel: [00:10:25] Yeah, sure. So we're in a high growth phase, meaning we have customers in almost every continent and we are expanding our customer base globally. I can tell you that our focus is in Southeast Asia. If I may say something positive about the pandemic today is that it has accelerated the world transformation. A digital transformation that would take five to ten years has been done in three months. So every good cloud technology company that is providing remote working or remote communication is getting today increased demand and so do we. This is exactly what we're providing. We see a lot of demand from companies with regards to revenues. We have increased around almost 500 percent from 2013 to 220 and we're continuing this high growth phase. [00:11:13][48.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:11:14] One aspect of analyzing companies and understanding companies is management. And it's something that, as retail investors, Bryce and I and a lot of our listeners, it's somewhat difficult to. A CEO like yourself on the phone to talk to them about their management style and how they're managing their company. So given what we've got you on the podcast, what would be interested to sort of unpack how you think about managing you hope will one day be a massive multinational company? So I guess maybe if we start start quite broad. Do you have a sort of management philosophy that you apply in your leadership role at Geffen and how do you apply it across a business that spans the world? [00:11:53][39.8]

Orni Daniel: [00:11:54] Very good question. A DNA or a company's DNA, I think is super important and something that every company has a DNA. Either you are working to make a specific DNA or it is a DNA that was created, by the way, that the management was handling things. The person who was professionally raised in the Israeli Air Force. We regularly look and examine if we need to change aspects of our management processes. We're not artists in a way that this is what we have done and that's the best. We like it. So we put as a role, we put ego outside the room. We don't let ego interfere. We will never hire people, even if they are so-called superstars with ego that we believe will damage the teamwork we like. We have a phrase that unlike, you know, choosing the pope, we don't if we are sitting seven people, the management in the management meeting and we're trying to decide on something, it's not if we're OK, if we have seven, eight votes for it. So then we have a white smoke and we're going for it. So all the decision processes are being analyzed toward the results at the field level. We're used to working with externals, with external investors, keeping them up to date. So I would say we're super ambitious but modest to how we need to handle things and whether we need to adjust ourselves. This going through a from a private company to a public company. It is a process that we need to support. The management needs to support. We need to look at ourselves and see what elements, not only technical elements that we need to do to to be complied with the ASX rules, but also to see whether this would fit to the type of new company which is type of being public. So this is our DNA. We're very proud about our DNA and the philosophy we working and recruiting and working according to our philosophy. [00:14:05][131.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:14:06] That's interesting. Only I'd be keen to understand to all of the management and our board, I guess, have actual shares in the company or how is that structured? [00:14:16][9.8]

Orni Daniel: [00:14:17] Somewhat, yes, of course, everyone has shares in the company. We believe that the company's success should be shared across the across the board, not only management, each and every employee had shares in the company. [00:14:31][14.5]

Bryce Leske: [00:14:32] Oh, wow. How many employees they have. [00:14:33][1.8]

Orni Daniel: [00:14:34] Yeah. So at the moment we have one hundred and ten which are based in Israel, India, Germany, and we are going to open a local branch in the region in Southeast Asia after and post listing. So yes, this is part of our DNA. Everyone has shares in the company. [00:14:52][18.3]

Bryce Leske: [00:14:53] Wow. And is that something that you see continuing or is that once you IPO see what happens? [00:14:59][5.8]

Orni Daniel: [00:15:00] Yes, I believe it's part of your DNA that the people are working for us. I believe the main driver for a motivator for people is not only the compensation is about the challenge, it's about the aspiration, the vision that they need to believe in doing good and understanding. And then when going to compensation, understanding when you're working good, I mean your best to be able to perform not only to get your paycheck at the end of the month, but also to see the success, to see your impact within the company and to be able to be part of it. I think it's important [00:15:39][39.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:15:40] to move to the IPO process and how you decided, you know, now is the right time to IPO and why you decided to IPO in Australia. But before we do, I just want to ask one question about Israel. It feels like the number of startups coming out of Israel is pretty incredible for the size of the country. I recently wrote a book, Startup Nation, about Israel. And for people who haven't read it, I'd highly recommend it. What's it like being entrepreneur and a founder in Israel and specifically in Tel Aviv? It feels like there's a lot happening over there at the moment. [00:16:10][29.4]

Orni Daniel: [00:16:10] Yes, you're right. So the Israeli startup was founded in nineteen forty eight. So we are rather in a growth stage. Israel, I mean, is a very compared to other countries. Obviously I would. They as a company, which is geography wise, is very small. I believe the human capital is one of our assets, the need for innovation, the need for thinking out of the box. You know, if you even look at the Israeli air, us, it's so small compared to other, you know, other countries that air forces and, you know, it's branding is because this is how you're being educated, innovate, take responsibility, be accountable, don't fear and be bold. And while, you know, combining all those aspects and being educated, you're very small. I think it's the melting pot of ideas, a lot of motivation. People want to excel. So it's an environment which you can find a highly talented people motivated. You don't need to be a motivation, a driver for that. They have it inherited. So I think it's a good atmosphere to work on. [00:17:23][72.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:17:23] Yeah, it definitely sounds like that. And writing that book that really came through. But we've got you in here to talk about the IPO process for Geffen. So we're keen to get stuck into that. And I guess if we start at the beginning and the decision to IPO, you know, you're a growing company, you've got over one hundred employees now you're growing your sales. Can you take us sort of into the room in your management meetings when, you know, you would floating the idea of actually becoming a public company? What was sort of the factors that you considered and what was it that ultimately led you to decide that now was the right time to IPO? [00:18:00][37.0]

Orni Daniel: [00:18:01] Yeah, sure. So we have reached a stage where we had a discussion about what would be the right next step for our company when taking in mind the following parameters, supporting high growth, as you said, providing transparency for large enterprises and also supporting M&A opportunities that we have designated. We believe that going public with the right natural even next step on our journey. [00:18:26][24.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:18:27] Fair enough. And I guess the second question is, you decided to IPO in Australia with no employees or no field office in Australia. So what was decision making process to decide that Australia and the Australian Stock Exchange was the right place to list? [00:18:43][16.3]

Orni Daniel: [00:18:43] Yeah, so like for every a lot of Israeli companies, although your originated in in in Israel, your markets are out there. OK, we're a global company. I said our main focus is in Southeast Asia is there are the largest multinational enterprises. And it seems that in Asia, organizations and even individuals tend to adopt technologies faster. We had a plan to open a local branch in the region to serve closer to our customers in the region. Now, what we've learned about the ASX was that it's among the top 10 stock exchanges in the world, among the most growing ones with growing interest in last year's erm, technological companies. It even launched a tech index in late February this year. So for us, it was a perfect fit. Combining all those parameters, [00:19:34][51.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:19:35] it feels like there's a lot of Israeli companies listing on the ASX. I remember one back in the day, Sky and Space Global, which I believe was also founded by a former Israeli fighter pilot. So maybe it's something about fighter pilots wanting to at least over in Australia. [00:19:50][15.0]

Orni Daniel: [00:19:53] I'm not sure. I don't even know the person. I wouldn't say there are a lot of companies. There were a Israeli companies that when I would say the ASX have opened their gates to technology companies and they were looking for, you know, competing with drones. So naturally, a lot of innovation and technology companies come from Israel. So there were companies who came, I believe today the ASX have raised the bar for looking for more mature companies with growing revenues in global selling globally. This is what really attracted us, the level of maturity of companies that are now being welcomed. And that's really the reason [00:20:38][44.6]

Bryce Leske: [00:21:51] So only we understand that obviously the IPO process can range from anywhere, you know, three years down to a few months, depending on the situation of the company and how quickly they can get things in place. Also, as well as, you know, how established they are and have processes and systems to support sort of becoming a public company. I'm just wondering, has there been any sort of surprises during the IPO process for you that you thought either wouldn't be part of the process or took longer than expected or was much more enjoyable than you thought? I'm interested to know sort of how you found that period. [00:22:26][35.2]

Orni Daniel: [00:22:27] Very good question. You know, when you asked me about our DNA, so part of our DNA is that we know we don't know. OK, so I know we don't know about the process in Australia specifically or going public at all. To be honest. So far, we didn't have any surprises during the IPO process. And I think it is very much stands for the investment banker that you choose and your relationship with him setting the expectations, talking openly in detail about the process and the coming steps for us. It was important to make a short process. Otherwise, you know, it's a management focus and attention that you need to spend on the process rather than on other things. So for us, it was a very fast. We've done our pre IPO roadshow late February and then because of the Covid, I visited Australia just before the gates were closed. And then we posed for almost three months and we were back on track within a month. We have secured our pre IPO with Cornerstone investors, a Regal and Ellerston, and it was heavily oversubscribed. And we're now working on the prospectus. We're going to be listed before the year end around November. [00:23:44][76.8]

Alec Renehan: [00:23:44] So I'm interested in following up on the length of the process. You mentioned that you wanted it to be quite short because if it was a longer process, management's focus would be on the IPO. In this sort of week of IPO related content, we've actually had someone come on and tell us the complete opposite view, that they think an IPO should be a long sort of twenty four month process to get ready. So I'm interested if you can sort of expand on your thinking around why a short process, from your perspective, was the right process for Geffen and exactly like how short are we talking? Obviously, covid has lengthened the time. If Covid wasn't around, I guess, how short would you have wanted the process to be? [00:24:26][41.8]

Orni Daniel: [00:24:27] Yeah, it's an interesting question and I would say it depends what would you define as a process. So the decision to go public, it took us some, you know, internal meetings for some months when we thought about our next phase, once we had decided that we're going to do it, then it was a rather quick without the Covid I believe we would we had the plans to at least around June or July this year. And we have signed with our investment banker around December or early January. And before that, we haven't met them in person in Israel. So it really depends. What would you define as a process? OK, what I meant wasn't about the decision to whether to remain public or to remain private or to go public, but whether once the decision was taken, how long the process will take you, because then it makes you have a lot of focus and intention to do the actions to go public. So this, I believe, to be as short as possible, as long as your company is more or less ready to go public when you don't need to reorganize and everything. [00:25:38][70.9]

Bryce Leske: [00:25:38] Yeah, I want to pick up on that. The only way that any sort of changes that you had to make to your business to prepare for becoming public or did you obviously it sounds like you felt that you were very much of the scale and a size and had enough sort of things in place that you were operating somewhat as a public company would anyway. [00:25:56][17.5]

Orni Daniel: [00:25:57] We did had to change the way we report our financials to comply with the IRS rules. Obviously, we will make sure that the entire business in governance and fully compliant with the regulation and the ASX. However, I can say that as a company that builds a platform to support and help organizations and individuals to be fully compliant with changing rules and regulations in different countries, we're quite used to fitting a specific set of rules, making sure all departments are aligned and yes, reaching this side of the company. And we didn't have to change a lot. It was just a some technical aspects to be aligned with specific ASX rules. But more or less, we we've been managing a company that we've planned ahead, whether it was going to be public or not, how it needs to be managed properly. [00:26:47][49.7]

Alec Renehan: [00:26:48] So you mentioned the roadshow there and. The fact that your IPO is oversubscribed, which is great. So congratulations on that, I'm interested to know how the process changed from what you thought it was going to be when you first met your investment bankers in December to what it had to be because of Covid. I imagine you were planning to literally get on the road and make a different investment banks and different investors face to face. I assume that couldn't have happened. So what was the Covid adjusted roadshow like? [00:27:19][31.7]

Orni Daniel: [00:27:20] So we did have a chance in late February to meet some of the people. I believe the fact that cornerstone investors have really like a regal sense and Ellerston Capital have joined is helping in a way to introduce to new investors the network. I believe the Covid has some positive aspects if we're talking about the roadshow because then we can do a virtual roadshow which saves a lot of time and capital to meet the investors there. You know, people like deals are being done and signed without being physically met. I believe it's a positive sign that transactions could happen virtually. Will that replace totally. You know, the the physical meetings? No, but it's a combination and it has accelerated the transformation. And I think for a positive wait for that sense, once the gates will be opened, obviously, I'll be on the first to jump on the first plane to come. I want to be close to the Australian market, to the Australian investors. It's part of a relationship you need to establish. [00:28:31][70.7]

Bryce Leske: [00:28:31] We can just fly over and you've got a plane, Kanuni [00:28:33][1.7]

Orni Daniel: [00:28:36] Air Refueling, but that's OK. [00:28:38][2.1]

Bryce Leske: [00:28:40] So obviously, one of the main reasons that companies choose to go public is to get access to a whole bunch of investors. So what is it that you actually want to use the capital for when you do go public? [00:28:51][11.2]

Orni Daniel: [00:28:52] Yeah. So we're planning to increase our sales and success teams to support our high growth and increase demand obviously will continue to improve our platform with new and exciting features and enhancing the options and opportunities for the agency advisors and the enterprises as well to continue and excel even when there is a lock down or other limitations regardless in one country or area. We will also use it for M&A that will help strengthen our offering and our reach. And there are a lot of opportunities out there and we are working already hard to designate. And I believe this is a big part of why we intend to go public. [00:29:30][38.0]

Alec Renehan: [00:29:30] So only I imagine the IPO process had a number of challenges. Can you maybe talk to anything that you found challenging through this process and sort of how you got through it? [00:29:40][9.9]

Orni Daniel: [00:29:40] I believe it is choosing the right investment banker. Obviously, you can meet them all. And there are a lot of aspects in the IPO process that which are around the world. So you need to heavily rely on. We've tried to get as many references as possible, not only to have the IPO process well organized and to have a successful IPO, but also looking long term to have the right set up. We believe the IPO is a milestone in our journey, more importantly, a first step in the public journey. So if you have the right investment banker, then most of the of the challenges, you can look ahead of them and you're prepared to handle them. [00:30:18][37.3]

Alec Renehan: [00:30:19] So on that, when you say finding the right investment banker, what do you make the right investment banker? [00:30:25][6.4]

Orni Daniel: [00:30:26] To me, it was important for him to be a long term thinker. And you are not only to support the IPO, but also to continue and support our first year, two years to see that we are on the right set up. To me, it was important that it was super organized. We could have clarity to the process, that we could have clarity to the challenges ahead, that we had enough time to get prepared. It was important for me to see, like, say, that ego wasn't managing the process and there was really aligned with the company's interests, having presenting us to even other brokers to share, maybe to increase the investors network that we're going to be exposed to. And, you know, being able to see that he's as if it was part of our management team for this time of a company spirit, for sure, but also to see that fitting to the DNA that we could speak openly about things we don't know and we aren't aware of. [00:31:35][69.2]

Bryce Leske: [00:31:36] So only you mentioned the importance of the investment banker and having sort of a long term position and a view. And, you know, it is a long journey and going public. I assume you also have intentions to see this out for the long term. Do you think that management style, your management style, will have to change when you go to becoming a public company? [00:31:59][23.0]

Orni Daniel: [00:31:59] Like I said, we are regularly look and examine if we need to change aspects and our management style or in our processes. We know that there will be things that might be different. And as a company, it goes to be a public company. We are going to carefully look for things that demand a change to make it a smooth move for being public. We intend to be close to the Australian investors, visit regularly, have local presence. To be honest, I believe it is a relationship. It needs to be well built, developed for the long term. This is how we treat it. So, yes, I'm sure things around how we do things will naturally change as in every good relationship, right? [00:32:41][41.5]

Bryce Leske: [00:32:41] Yeah. Well, when you come to Australia, we'll have to definitely made up, that's for sure. [00:32:45][3.5]

Alec Renehan: [00:32:46] So only for people who are interested in following your journey to actually listing, there's probably two key pieces of information that they'll be wondering at this point. And I actually don't know if you have them yet. So apologies if I'm jumping the gun a little here. But do you know what date you will be listing and do you have a ticker code that people will be able to search for getting through? [00:33:08][21.5]

Orni Daniel: [00:33:08] Yeah, so the ticker code will be G.F. and stands for Gfcm. We don't have a specific date yet because we haven't lodged a prospectus yet where we intend to lodge it until the end of October and we will be listing before the year end. So it will be around late November. [00:33:27][18.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:33:27] OK, great. Well, people, I'm sure will be marking their calendar and looking forward to saying when Jeff Ren lists. So I guess it's an exciting process for for yourself and for the company. It sounds like the journey to date has been very successful and it feels like you've got big ambitions for you mentioning M&A activity and to grow, I guess maybe to sum up the conversation about Geffen and where you're at, when you think about the company and when you think sort of, you know, five years out, 10 years out. What do you say, Geffen, or where do you want Geffen to be in this market? [00:34:03][35.9]

Orni Daniel: [00:34:04] Yeah, so I see Geffen as a disruptor to all the sectors and fields where there are agent based networks. We see our responsibility of breaking the glass ceiling for individuals. So, you know, you are you are where you are. It's it's a combination of your life circumstances, where you were born, how you've been raised, what education you've got. And I believe that in today's when technology is being provided as commodity, we can really empower individuals and change that equation, meaning that we will be able to make more individuals without having them being educated to make to have more productive life, productive compensation, balanced life. And if you are able to get one smile when an individual goes back home, not after struggling their day and going back home with a smile and honey, I'm home, then it's something that you give back to the society. Like I said, we are long term thinkers and we are here until we make that happen globally. [00:35:20][76.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:35:21] And that's why I like that ambition. We always like to end these interviews with three final questions. So as we get to them, they won't be related to Geffen specifically, but we're interested to get your views and your thoughts on them. So the first one is, do you have any books that you consider must read? [00:35:38][17.0]

Orni Daniel: [00:35:39] Yeah, to be honest, I believe you can muster films only when you combine knowledge from different doctrines. I read the biographies, philosophical books. You have real economic science. I love to change and shift between them. I love to read also about successful companies documentary books to read about a challenge they faced along the way to pass reading and try to solve the challenge myself. I can think about it for two weeks without continue reading. Think about it. You get a chance to solve conceptually big challenges and you don't pay for failing if not being solved properly. [00:36:14][35.4]

Alec Renehan: [00:36:15] Fair enough, sir. Do you have any specific titles or maybe something that you're writing now? [00:36:19][4.1]

Orni Daniel: [00:36:20] My last struggle will be these days so-and-so is the art of war and I'm trying to I'm sure you heard about it. It's a classic. I'm trying to see whether I combine elements from that to how we run business, how we look at business from a broader perspective. [00:36:38][18.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:36:39] Fair enough. So the second question that we like to ask is, what's your go to source for financial or economic information? [00:36:46][7.5]

Orni Daniel: [00:36:47] First, I would say personally, I invest in fields that I. The lead that I believe have a global impact, I believe in long term impact, I believe in disruption is I believe as the president was wave so far since the age of 13, until I went to the army, the age of 18, I believe today we live in a unique era where many aspects of our daily life and routines are changing, like where, you know, we are sitting on our board. But beneath us, there is a tsunami wave just in 20, 30 years. Our kids want to be grown up. They will see it and they will recognize it. Just think of the way we communicate compared to 10 years ago. Think of the way information is delivered. You go to the library today who communicates only when outdoors or physically and today. So I like to read about disruptive companies or fields and then I like to explore it before I invest. [00:37:38][51.1]

Alec Renehan: [00:37:39] The final question, if you think back to your earlier days when you were when you were surfing or when you were just starting out in the Air Force. What advice would you give to your younger self? [00:37:49][10.2]

Orni Daniel: [00:37:50] Yes, I will tell you a little story. I had a calm and happy childhood until the age of 18. I was surfing. I was quite OK in school and year of age 18, I joined the army just like an Israeli. Three months after I finished the flight academy, my mother passed away out of the blue at the age of forty nine. I was molested. I felt as if I was standing at the cliff, literally thinking what to do with my life. I decided that I will take nothing for granted. I will not continue to do something same as yesterday just because you know that's life. I will constantly question whether doing the right thing and we look to improve. I'm setting my own goals. I aim where I want to be. I listen to nobody that tries to convince me to stay in the norm and I find my way to reach and get it. And it relates to all aspects in my life. This is how I live my life. This is what made me achieve success in life. And this is how I try to educate my three amazing kids, which are now age 11, nine and seven. So I go to this advice at the age of twenty due to this trauma, my kids get it at a younger age. So to answer your question, when I was younger, someone would have taught me that I would tell my younger me, listen to him, [00:39:07][76.7]

Bryce Leske: [00:39:07] great piece of advice to finish their own only. I think that mindset of always pushing and challenging the norm is certainly a great one to try and work into your daily life. So only thank you for your time with us today. It's been an interesting conversation into what Geffen are doing and then particularly that IPO process. You're one of the first sort of CEO founders that we've spoken to who are going through this process. So appreciate your time on the show today. So I guess good luck with everything that comes and we look forward to putting that. [00:39:38][30.8]

Orni Daniel: [00:39:42] Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. [00:39:44][1.2]

Alec Renehan: [00:39:44] Thanks, Tony. [00:39:44][0.0]


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