Can a Billionaire Solve World Hunger?

Adam: [00:00:25] Hello, and welcome to Comedian vs. Economist.

Adam: [00:00:28] We demystify the world of money and help you get a handle on the bigger picture. My name's Adam, and we're joined, as always, by my little older brother and real life economist Thomas Thomas. Yeah.

Thomas: [00:00:38] Got Adam, how am I doing? 

Adam: [00:00:41] All right. It's fair to say I was sampling some of the produce and delights of the Clare Valley wine region yesterday for a friend of mine's 50th birthday. So a little shady today, but willpower on willpower on because we have got a big show coming up. ScoMo is on tour. Scotty from marketing. He's at Cop 26 Talking Climate Action Cop. Of course, being the conference of the parties, which explains why it's still going. It is one party after another Elon Musk, entrepreneur and richest man in the world, can do a lot of things Thomas. But can he end world hunger? We're going to find out. And apparently three per cent of people in the finance sector are psychopaths. Meanwhile, amazingly, a whopping 83 per cent of psychopaths are actually office workers named Karen. But first, CommBank has taken the plunge into the murky waters of crypto. Thomas does this mean mum and dad can finally buy some DOGE? 

Adam: [00:01:43] No, no. Actually, CBA is offering 

Thomas: [00:01:47] crypto on their banking app now, so you can. You can buy 10 cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin, Cash and Litecoin. But is a closed loop system so you can't buy on other exchanges and then bring it into your app. So you've got to you've got to buy through the app itself, right and then store it there. So, yes, it's a closed loop system, the yes, but they're offering it to their customers, saying that their customers are increasingly asking for their strong demand that they've seen. And so they're going to do it. The teamed up with Gemini, which is a New York based firm run by the Winklevoss twins. Oh yes, yeah. Kept crypto celebrities they invented. 

Adam: [00:02:27] Facebook denied that was their claim to fame initially, and then Zuckerberg stole it and get into billions of dollars and renamed it. He's called up Meta now, but they went off and just made billions anyway. 

Thomas: [00:02:40] Yeah, they did. Yeah, crypto, they turned out. All right. Hmm. Yeah. So they're they paired up with them. They said they run an exchange and custodian service have teamed up with blockchain analysis firm Chainalysis, which sort of provides a lot of the regulatory stuff that they need to do to to be able to make this offering. Yeah. So they've paired up with with those guys, you know, offering it to their customers. So yeah. Strong, strong play from CBA. I reckon it's a bit of a flex like it's the first big bank to offer it. And I think one of the things I've seen in the reporting of it is saying it's a good strong play for them because crypto is just cool, right? Like, it's cool right now, it's something young people are into. And so there's big branding power in this budget, kind of like, Yeah, yeah, we're done with crypto. You can get crypto through the app. 

Adam: [00:03:34] Doesn't that come with risk, though? Because because the crypto space is is famous for being so volatile, like if if it all goes pear shaped with CommBank, start offering crypto and going, Yeah, we're cool. We're hip with the kids and all the kids lose like 80 percent of their house deposit, then that's not going to reflect too well on CBA, is it? 

Thomas: [00:03:56] Yeah, it's not really CBA's problem. I don't think,

Adam: [00:03:59] well, that's a bit rich. Oh, no, 

Thomas: [00:04:01] I mean, apparently when you when you go to purchase crypto, there is a little notification that comes up that reminds you that crypto is a risky asset to be investing in, right? Apparently. So that's that's how CBA's covering themselves. 

Adam: [00:04:14] Their next next, next finish. 

Adam: [00:04:17] You skip whatever you're going to buy crypto mute notifications. We all read, we all read 

Adam: [00:04:25] those notifications that way, you 

Adam: [00:04:27] know, like the end user licence agreement just yet. 

Adam: [00:04:31] Study it in depth. 

Adam: [00:04:34] Yeah, but I 

Thomas: [00:04:35] think isn't it is not. It's not CBA's problem. And I think CBA know that if they if they don't offer it to their clients, their clients will just go and do it somewhere else because it's not that hard. Like, I'm kind of surprised as you know, you and I both seasoned crypto investors 

Adam: [00:04:50] like, it's a bit 

Thomas: [00:04:51] lame in the sense of you just have access to ten coins and that's that doesn't go very far. And given how hard it is to go and register with an exchange, let alone set up your own wallet or anything, it's not particularly hard. So it's a pretty, you know, entry level offering. But I think they needed to do it because they they would know that, you know, the demands there and people would leave them to to set up somewhere else. So this allows them to hold onto their customer base a little longer. 

Adam: [00:05:19] But no, no, they wouldn't. I wouldn't leave my bank where my home life. It because they didn't offer me crypto like I look at it like a sports betting account.

Adam: [00:05:30] I don't want I don't want to come back offering me odds on the fifth race at Deep Dive life. It's, you know, that's 

Adam: [00:05:41] that's where I place crypto and maybe that's changing. And maybe this is a recognition of it changing. But to me, crypto to now and maybe it's also my investment philosophy around crypto is I'm not I'm not even like in on bitcoin. I'm looking more down than your bitcoin end of the spectrum 

Adam: [00:05:59] for those big gains. So maybe it is 

Adam: [00:06:02] that by by limiting it to the top 10 or whatever it is and saying, you know what, these are in a, you know, in the Wild West, these are the safest ones, you know, relatively speaking. But I don't know. I'm not. Yeah, I don't really buy that anyone's leaving CommBank because they can't buy their crypto.

Thomas: [00:06:20] They're not not leaving CommBank, but like leaving the CommBank ecosystem like they want to hold. They want to be the home of people's finance like they were of like full solution. It's like it's retail. It's everyday banking, it's insurance. It's it's wealth management, all of that sort of thing. And so crypto is part of that ecosystem. And so as much as possible, CBA wants to own an entire the entire ecosystem for each of their customers as much as possible. And I think that's the idea and that's that's the motivation driving it. 

Adam: [00:06:52] Hmm. 

Thomas: [00:06:53] I think I think the interesting the interesting thing for me is like a lot of people, particularly in the crypto community that I'm reading, talk about how this legitimises crypto. And and I don't I don't think that's the case because CBA has no skin in the game here. You know, like then, they're not up for losing any money. They're not investing their own assets in crypto. They're just making it available to their, to their, to their customers. I feel like I feel like the analogy here is like if you bought a plane ticket to Afghanistan and you bought it and then you go, Well, Qantas is willing to fly me to Afghanistan. Therefore, Qantas thinks Afghanistan is safe and a good place to live in. But that's not what Qantas thinks. Qantas thinks that they can take your money and fly to Afghanistan and not get shot down. And that's that's all. That's all of that implies that they can drop you off and get out of there before before they get burnt. And so that's what I think. I think it is. I think I think it is true that it is pointing to a growing demand base at the retail level for crypto investments. But I don't know that. I don't think it's the big institutional tick of approval that a lot of people are hyping it up 

Adam: [00:08:03] as we actually had an email this week from and apologies. If I get the pronunciation wrong, it's Tom, but it's a volunteer army. 

Adam: [00:08:09] Sorry, before we hang any, hang me out there. 

Adam: [00:08:13] But but he was sort of asking the same thing as saying, like, is this, you know, CBA getting into it? They're kind of going into it without carrying any of the risk. So. So they're able to offer these products without carrying any of the risk. And I think a lot of the trading platforms really do that, don't they? They are essentially offering you a way into the market, but without carrying the risk like they're not they're not holding anything other than, I mean, CBA is not holding anything in this instance. You're just they're just the vehicle with through which you can buy some crypto, but then also read a card the other day and said, if it's not your wallet, it's not your crypto. So where does it sit? 

Thomas: [00:08:53] Yeah, with I mean, with Gemini, I think so they give you. Yes, that's the thing is this know your customer regulations on the banks, so the banks to prevent money laundering, they have to know where the money is and who owns it. And so there's there's zero privacy around your ownership of crypto through CBA's banking app, which is kind of interesting because that's often touted as the big selling point of bitcoin is that it's completely anonymous and no one has any idea who owns what. But CBA has a ledger of what you own in terms of in terms of your crypto holdings. 

Adam: [00:09:27] So and you can't transfer it out to your own to like a cold storage wallet. Not something of that nature. That's part of the deal part of what you sign up for. 

Thomas: [00:09:36] Yeah, yeah, exactly which 

Adam: [00:09:37] I don't imagine. You know, I don't imagine there's too many boomers 

Adam: [00:09:41] making sure CBA doing that. So in the in the crypto sphere that maybe they're going well, this is all well, well and good, but I'd 

Adam: [00:09:49] really like to offload this into my cold 

Adam: [00:09:51] storage wallet, in the refrigerator, down in the shed. 

Adam: [00:09:56] Do you reckon this is the start of will we be able to buy things at like, can you shop at Woollies with crypto soon? Like, is this once it becomes mainstream? Can you with a link to your debit cards and start using it in that way? 

Thomas: [00:10:09] I still think that's a fair way off. Like, you can't you can't purchase anything with with this. This is this is purely an investment. And then they asked Matt Coleman whether he thought bitcoin was an investment, a speculative investment. Like Is it an asset? Asset class, or is it a is it a currency and he danced around 

Adam: [00:10:27] or is it a lotto ticket and he didn't really want to be

Thomas: [00:10:33] drawn on that question? Baby, can't. You can't purchase anything with with this. It's it's it's in the in the app and you can't use it to, you know, go buy anything. 

Adam: [00:10:43] All investment speculative to a degree, though, isn't it like we just talking degrees of speculation? Is you speculating on the fact that it's going to go up? 

Thomas: [00:10:51] That's yeah, to an extent. I mean, yeah, traditionally, like you might draw a distinction between investing is something that pays a return that has some sort of yield. So like you, you invest in a company, you get a share of the profits and that's what you're investing in. Theoretically, like, you know, mostly you buying because you want the value of your companies to go up, but you're investing in theory, you're investing because you want a share of those that companies profits. Mm-Hmm. When it comes to currencies and not just blockchain, but like bitcoin, that old currencies, there's no yield. There's no return from owning Aussie dollars, US dollars, bitcoin, whatever. And so as an investment vehicle, it's purely speculative in the sense that I'm just buying because I think it's going to be worth more when I want to sell it right? 

Adam: [00:11:42] Okay. Yeah. If that's that, if that's the definition of speculative and you just you're buying hoping that it goes up rather than buying to own. 

Thomas: [00:11:50] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, a lot. Yeah. And that's not to say all share investing is not speculative, but. Not all of mine is, that's for sure. Yes, that's 

Adam: [00:12:01] right, Thomas, it's all over the news at the moment. The conference of the Parties COP26 happening in Glasgow. Everyone's talking climate change. Climate action. ScoMo is over there. What's what's he brought to the table?

Thomas: [00:12:14] Big win for Australia. Big win. Yet we're committed to do net zero. Really going to do very little. 

Adam: [00:12:22] There's a big 

Thomas: [00:12:22] win. He really brought that home. Yeah, little Aussie battlers punching above its weight in terms of the war on the environment to begin. We did have the Australian story apparently was splashed with the branding of Santos big gas producer. 

Adam: [00:12:42] Climate action brought to you by Santos. Yeah, yeah, it was. 

Thomas: [00:12:46] Yeah, yeah. And they were touting the carbon carbon capture technology as saying This is this is Australia's contribution to 

Adam: [00:12:57] its cutting edge, its cutting edge technology. Yeah, it was so cutting edge. It hasn't been invented yet. 

Adam: [00:13:02] Yeah, it hasn't. No. Yeah, it's it's a distant future. 

Thomas: [00:13:05] Like, he's a visionary Scott Morrison. He's looking way into the future and pinning all of our contribution to saving the planet on this fictional technology. That's going to be delivered by some of the companies that just happen to be big financial backers of the coalition, just as it happens. Hmm. But yeah, but carbon carbon capture technology doesn't really work yet. We did have an announcement through the week, actually that the Gorgon has spent $3 billion to is run by Chevron. I mean, I think it is. They're running a carbon capture process up there, and it has sequestered five million tonnes of carbon dioxide. Well, that's good. Yeah. Well, it was supposed to do 40, so it's a little bit of ice. This is 

Adam: [00:13:55] the start. 

Thomas: [00:13:57] Significant milestone was Chevron's words. Yeah, yeah. But they're now having 

Adam: [00:14:02] to go down and get 40 with that five 

Adam: [00:14:04] first year where we're on the way in the bank. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. 

Thomas: [00:14:13] So yeah, hanging in hat on that selling that to the world. I mean, the funny thing here, as an economist looking at this is you had the carbon tax, right? So Guillard brought in the carbon tax and this was widely seen in economics. A carbon tax is seen as a pretty carbon price. It kind of works that being the same thing as seen as a good way to do things because you set the price and then the market decides how it's going to meet that, meet those targets and these market incentives. And and with that incentive process, the it brings together your most efficient solutions. It brings them to the fore and promotes those. 

Adam: [00:14:56] How does it do that, though? It does it do that by so it puts a price on carbon and so it does put a price on carbon and then it gets more expensive. The more you know, how is how is the price calculated? How is it? 

Thomas: [00:15:12] It's just it's just set. So like if you if you're going to if you're going to emit carbon, then you have to pay a price depending on how much carbon you are meeting and the price is set by the government. But because because then that creates a financial incentive. So if you're a polluter in that sense, you need to you need to reduce reduce. The more you reduce, the more you save and then you're going to go to and then that creates gas. 

Adam: [00:15:36] And it's not the opposite where you get discounts if you buy more. 

Adam: [00:15:40] No, no. Buy in bulk and save on your carbon price. Yeah, yeah. 

Thomas: [00:15:48] Yeah. So that's so correct, said incentives. And then the solution is just whatever's going to be most cost effective. And so you end up with more cost effective solutions because it's driven by the market. And that's what right in an economic theory, that's what the market does very well, is it it? It allocates resources efficiently to their best use, and it does that naturally without having to get all hands on in and kind of figure it out manually. The market just takes care of that, like it is able the market as a system is able to process a lot of complex information because there's a lot of people looking at it and the price, the price as mechanism transmits that information through the system very quickly and very effectively. 

Adam: [00:16:28] What's the what's a practical analogy that people would understand like? Like another kind of. And when I say people may,

Adam: [00:16:37] but but I mean, 

Adam: [00:16:41] like the price of petrol, the price of something where. Like, I'm struggling to relight the carbon price and how that's how that's just magically maintained and updated by the market. 

Thomas: [00:16:57] The price is set, the price is set by the government, right? But then that once that that creates an incentive in the market systems for people to meet that, to respond to that like it creates a cost around. That's why I call it a carbon price. It creates a cost around carbon. The now people want to avoid that cost. 

Adam: [00:17:17] Right? Okay. So the market's not dictating the price in any way. They're not. They're not. It's not adjusting the price based on what's happening in the market in the way that the supply and demand works. When you've got if there's a lot more demand, the price goes up and then vice versa, your price is just a flat price that's set and the market then just goes well, we've got to sort out. So that a backyard so that we're not having to pay it. 

Thomas: [00:17:42] Yeah, that's right. That's right. It introduces a cost into the system. And then that because at the moment you can emit carbon and you don't have to pay for it. But now that if you introduce the cost into the system and then that incentivises firms to avoid that cost. And to do that in the most cost efficient way. Right. And that sort of, yeah. So that's sort of how it works. And that's why. Yeah. So in terms of economic theory and to like economists like carbon prices like that's, you know, seen as the most efficient way to do it. And that's pretty global sort of thing. But but yeah, so that became the carbon tax and then that became Labour's tax and Labour's big tax agenda. And then Abbott got elected and he killed the carbon tax and mostly not because he was really ideological against it because Labour had come up with it. And well, yeah, and he's in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry. And so they shut that down and went to direct action. So in that system, they just they're funding people to not pollute and paying, paying to do it. 

Adam: [00:18:43] Would that that seems more open to being conscience? Sort of. 

Adam: [00:18:47] Well, yeah. 

Adam: [00:18:50] Well, if we're starting to pay people to do things like, say, we're talking about paying corporations to reduce their emissions, I feel like this within flipping the accountability for how the money is spent over to the corporations, and they may or may not be using the money to do that. They might go. We'll put half of what you gave us towards carbon reduction and we'll put the other half into this thing we want to build is. 

Thomas: [00:19:15] Yeah, yeah. Economists don't like direct action. No, there's not. Not much to like about it. It's saying the government is going to be picking winners. It's a lot of administration. They've got a monitor. They're going to they're going to have integrity to make sure the companies are doing what they're saying. It's not it's not really seen as a winner. Yeah. So they went, I mean, but the other thing you think about it is that a carbon price or a carbon tax puts the price on the polluters, so they've got to pay the tax falls on the polluters and then we all benefit with direct action. The government's paying for it through taxation, revenue on households. So we've now reversed that flow. So households are now paying money to corporations to stop polluting, which is also a little bit like. That's not a great outcome. 

Adam: [00:20:05] But it gets worse because we've now 

Thomas: [00:20:07] gone to direct action where we're now paying companies like Santos. So Santos just got a a grant. Yeah, funding on a controversial government scheme that pays companies lower emissions for more carbon capture technology. So we're now taxing households to pay corporations for technology that at the moment doesn't actually work right now. 

Adam: [00:20:30] Yeah, it's not good is it 

Thomas: [00:20:31] is a bit lame. It's a bit in the middle of a climate crisis. It's a bit lame. And and it's and it's sort of like, I don't think that they have defined this personally. Quite frustrating is that, you know, we often talk about coalition being being the the political party of business, but it's not of business in general is not a free markets because this is the exact opposite of what free market economists would tell you to do. It's the company of particular businesses and businesses are paying their donations. So yeah, it's it's it's yeah, it's it's grim. Like, I'll be honest, there's not a lot, not a lot of joy in this story for me. Right. 

Adam: [00:21:09] And so. So this is the solution that we've taken to to the the cop 26. Yeah. How was it received derision? 

Adam: [00:21:19] People think of kind of diseases that, well, you must have some very wealthy citizens. Yeah, no, I don't. 

Thomas: [00:21:33] I don't think there's a lot of respect for Israel on the world stage right now. But I don't know. 

Adam: [00:21:37] You know, you wait, though, when that technology comes in. Yeah. Then they'll all come begging to Australia for our our patents and our. 

Thomas: [00:21:47] Let's give you just and we won most that, so the UN reckons we need to remove 17 billion tonnes of carbon every year, 17 billion tonnes a year. Average power station like Liddell little produces six million tonnes a year. All of the current carbon capture schemes in the world all together right now save 9000 tonnes a year a year. I think this year to 

Adam: [00:22:15] date, today it might be today. Tons captured since inception, we just ticked over 

Adam: [00:22:26] 9000 the milestone. 

Adam: [00:22:28] Yes. Yeah. 

Thomas: [00:22:30] So it's not even a fraction of a single power station. 

Adam: [00:22:33] Well, it's early days, so it's early days, you know? And so when electric cars first came out, they couldn't they couldn't make it to the end of the driveway. 

Adam: [00:22:41] Yeah, you can get all around the wall, around the block. So that but you're right, it does 

Adam: [00:22:50] seem a long way off. I'm sure it's going to get out of control. It's in safe hands. All right. Let's take a quick break there or grab a word from this week's sponsors and be back with more comedian versus economist right after this. Welcome back here on comedian versus economist, don't forget to check us out on Facebook and Instagram at CBC Podcast or we'd love it if you sent us an email CV at Equity Mates dot com or via the website Equity Mates dot com forward slash CV. And in fact, Ariel sent us a message via email and she was asking about Elon Musk's Do you want to get our thoughts? Are probably your thoughts, mostly Thomas Faezeh on Elon Musk's comments about ending world hunger. So I don't know. You were saying this during the week. The head of the World Food Programme said there was a headline that read that we can end world hunger with $6 billion, which is only two per cent of Elon Musk's wealth. And Elon said, I'll give you six billion if you can prove how it will work. And then the World Food Programme Guy was like, Well, it won't work by way of six billion anyway, please. And then just pause. And Elon Musk has left the conversation. 

Adam: [00:24:04] So what did you make of it? Uh, yeah, 

Thomas: [00:24:10] I mean, that's right. I mean, to be fair to to the to the World Food Programme won the 2020 Nobel Peace prise because it's ending world hunger, particularly, it's been waging a campaign to stop the use of hunger as a weapon of war. So doing some good work and said the head, the head is David Beasley. He got he did an article with an interview somewhere and basically saying there's six billion short of their fundraising target, without which 42 million people are going to die, you know, by their estimates. And he's saying, Look, that's only, you know, two per cent of enormous wealth. And he could maybe he could chip in and then they turn that into a headline, which is Musk could solve world hunger with six billion, which wasn't actually the point he was making in mass was like, Well, if I can do that, you show me how and I'll give you six billion. And he's like, Well, that's not actually what I said won't solve world hunger, but it will prevent geopolitical instability, mass migration and say 42 million people on the brink of starvation. 

Adam: [00:25:09] Not enough. So at home? 

Adam: [00:25:12] Not good enough. No, it's ending world hunger with my six billion or it's nothing. I don't want any of you geopolitical stabilisation right now. Yeah. Well, with the fight. So I don't know. So this is 

Thomas: [00:25:29] following this conversation today to see where it went. So, yeah, so David Beasley said. They said, Let's talk of fly to you if you want. It's not as complicated as Falcon Heavy, which is which is one of Space X is heavy, heavy space launch vehicles, but there's too much at stake to not have a conversation. Oh, I can be on the next flight to you. Throw me out. If you don't like what I have to hear Musk. Then some point changed his Twitter handle to Lord Edge and had his account suspended. 

Adam: [00:26:00] Yeah, yeah. So we haven't. We have an account

Thomas: [00:26:02] suspended, so we haven't heard from him since then. 

Adam: [00:26:06] That explains why there hasn't been a lot of movement in DOGE recently, either.

Adam: [00:26:10] Uh, yes. Yeah, yeah, right. 

Adam: [00:26:12] Is it still suspended? Is Elon Musk's account genuinely suspended? 

Thomas: [00:26:17] That's what that's what. That's what I when I was on Twitter today, that's what it was telling me.

Adam: [00:26:21] Really? Hmm. 

Thomas: [00:26:23] Yeah. I don't know what form didn't. Didn't tell me what form it did look. 

Adam: [00:26:27] OK, I don't know. Did you ask, did you let them know who you were recording tonight? 

Thomas: [00:26:35] Can you just? 

Adam: [00:26:35] Yeah, I really want to be current on this, right? Yeah. 

Thomas: [00:26:42] So the ending ending world hunger isn't as simple as just giving people lots of food, because as as the WFP notes that it's the conflict is one of the biggest sources of famine. And so the big flashpoints with famine right now are Yemen, South Sudan, Nigeria, Afghanistan. Yes, the conflict point. So that's where you're likely to have have people fall into famine. And so that's not so much a question of like once it once you've got conflict, then getting food to people becomes a real challenge, regardless of the economics. That said, we're also in the like. We're also in the middle of the Cobra crisis, which has created a whole bunch of health problems, as well as talking to a mate of mine as I can't mention his name because he's an actual economist and doesn't want to be associated with hacks like us. 

Adam: [00:27:34] OK, with the show. Yeah, you Blair out his face filter on his voice or whatever. 

Thomas: [00:27:43] Yeah, when I say you say like, there's energy costs are up, so that feeds into food prices. But one of the weird things about it is that there's now biofuels is being seen as a sustainable energy, that biofuels are run on things like corn and things like that, and so poor people in the world are now competing with. Biofuel companies for four basic grains and things like this. Right? Which is which is a real challenge. And the other thing is that, yeah, not only are poor people in developing countries competing with biofuel companies, they're also competing with cows that a lot of grain and world few food goes to feeding cows in the developing world. And because the facto in the developed world in the developed world loves their cows so much that, yeah, they're willing to pay a good price for it, so they're getting outbid by by cattle farms. So this is sort of some of the challenges that the the UN's worried about right now and is looking at potentially going to be quite a quite a challenging year. China, there's a Bloomberg was running a story saying that China is warning people to stock up on food because they're worried about what's going to happen coming into winter. 

Adam: [00:28:51] That's a desperately sad situation that people are going hungry so that we can feed cows so that way eat them. That's that's pretty horrific when you put it in those terms. 

Thomas: [00:29:04] Yeah, it is. It's yeah, that's that's not humanity winning. 

Adam: [00:29:08] No, it makes me feel very guilty about my lunch in the Clare Valley yesterday. Yeah, delicious as it was.

Thomas: [00:29:15] That's right. I mean, inequality is pretty brutal. And I think like, you don't often realise this living in Australia, like you had just how wealthy and lucky we are. Yeah, we the rest of the world is nowhere near as lucky as we are. 

Adam: [00:29:30] So, I mean, the other thing I highlighted to me was just the the enormous wealth that someone like Elon Musk has, like he's the richest man in the world now by like a country. I think he's he's like richer than the next two guys put together, and those guys are pretty strong. So, yeah, it's kind of the fact that he that he could potentially even come close to making a significant contribution with two percent of of the wealth and releasing six billion onto the world to make even even a like a big dent in a problem like world hunger. Mm hmm. Just kind of says to me, like, so we pay 50 bucks a month to World Vision, right? That's one of the things that we do too to give and his his Elon Musk. Like with the ability, whether he chooses to or not, but he's got the ability potentially to pay $6 billion. So it kind of makes a bit of a mockery of the rest of us who are like, well, his $50 like a little bit here, a little bit there. When someone like that, I could just go, You know what? In fact, if we all get really, really sort of get behind it, then if he actually did pay, we could all get our 50 bucks a month back. Back. Yeah. Because then that would be fixed. 

Thomas: [00:30:54] Yeah, that's right. I mean, the irony is that for me, it's like, you know, it's it's galling to see like the UN trying to bail up billionaires to get them to chip in and save 42 million people from dying. Like, that's a pretty that's a pretty horrible outcome. But it's also the system that creates billionaires is the same system that is taking food from the developing world to feed cows in the developed world. That's that's how a capitalist system works. And you know, the reason why there is still world hunger, you know, conflict is a story, yes. But like a lot of that, conflict comes from the way resource rich countries have been shafted by by colonial countries. 

Adam: [00:31:40] So there's a 

Thomas: [00:31:41] sort of a systemic kind of picture here. The I don't know, maybe, maybe it's sort of coming more into the fore and kind of see like, yeah, the world that gives us billionaires also gives us 42 million people on the brink of starvation. 

Adam: [00:31:53] Interesting. In fact, Ariel, we're just finished with this just super quick question that she had here. What would a realistic what would a realistic roadmap out of world hunger look like economically and logistically? Thomas, if you got a quick ActionScript 

Adam: [00:32:08] bumpy and quick answer to that, yeah, 

Adam: [00:32:13] it's complicated. All right. Quick one to finish Thomas. And there was a headline that caught my eye this week, one of the articles that you shared with me that said that three per cent of people in the financial sector are psychopaths. Hmm. What kind of what kind of detailed, in-depth research went into this statistic? 

Thomas: [00:32:32] I think it was this a survey people self nominated 

Adam: [00:32:37] be publicity opportunity. Oh yeah, it's got to be referred to as a psychopath if it gets me in the. Yeah, yeah. No, they're interviewing this guy. 

Thomas: [00:32:53] Manford gets Davies, his leading leadership expert. He's a trained economist and then got into psychotherapy. And then now teaches leadership, wrote seven books in 2020, apparently 

Adam: [00:33:07] seven books in one year.

Thomas: [00:33:09] Hmm. Yeah, he's a machine 

Adam: [00:33:12] or they're not very good. 

Adam: [00:33:13] Oh, they're not very good. Who knows? I mean, I didn't write any. Yeah. So she slag you off too much. But I feel like if you're pumping 

Adam: [00:33:23] out that kind of quantity that there's got to be some sort of some compromise on quality. 

Thomas: [00:33:29] Yeah, you find a formula. It's like Enid Blyton, who wrote a famous five and magic faraway tree. She wrote 200 books. 

Adam: [00:33:35] Whoa. You know, it's lack of added plot and one of the know one of the greatest children's authors of all time. 

Thomas: [00:33:43] Yeah, yeah. But yes, I'm saying she had she found the formula, made it work right, churned it out, and I reckon kids, the viewers is doing the same thing. Bea Arthur asking him about, yeah, just general leadership question. And he's like, why even one percent of the population are psychopaths in the financial sector. It's probably three percent. 

Adam: [00:34:03] Probably three percent. 

Thomas: [00:34:04] Yeah. 

Adam: [00:34:05] So this is falling apart pretty quickly. Yeah, this is. This is an excerpt from one of his one of his books. It's probably three percent or three percent. Yeah. 

Adam: [00:34:19] What do you base that on Manfred? 

Adam: [00:34:21] Just ouch. Yeah. I mean, this is a guy who's had 

Thomas: [00:34:24] to work with financial sector CEOs, so is based on Bryce. You know, it's something basically just slagging off the people he's had to work with. I don't want to work with fire in the finance sector. Psychopaths. 

Adam: [00:34:35] I mean, I imagine there's a lot of like I think there are a lot of traits that would serve you well in those kind of high pressure roles, you know, like the psychopaths typically kind of narcissistic sort of, you know, self-promoter that they like. 

Thomas: [00:34:48] I think so. I don't know 

Adam: [00:34:50] this. I think you'd have to have a be a little bit of a a little bit of a psychopath to just have a little touch. 

Thomas: [00:34:57] Well, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question where does psychopaths end and go get a bargain? 

Adam: [00:35:05] Yeah, yeah. You'd really love it if your boss described you as a real go getter. If someone asked you, Is he going for your next job and you put your old boss down there, effort, if your boss said, well, it was a bit of a psychopath, to be honest, I don't think you're getting that. I think you're getting that next job. I actually did. 

Adam: [00:35:25] I did. I had a quick look on and did some searching as part of my research, my in-depth research. The top 10 jobs Thomas, where you most likely to find psychopaths number 10 is the civil servants and the public service. Probably not. No great. No great surprise shifts came in at number nine. 

Thomas: [00:35:43] Oh yeah, they're under a lot of pressure. 

Adam: [00:35:46] Yeah, but that's a bad combination. Like psychopaths with access to lots of sharp knives. Clergy Clergyperson came in at number. I didn't strike me as someone under a lot of 

Adam: [00:35:57] pressure or in need of 

Adam: [00:35:59] of shameless self-promotion. Police officers apparently attract that those traits as well. A journalist was at number six, surgeons was at number five. Yeah, surgeons, I don't know just that. Maybe it's like a power trip of opening someone up. I don't know. Number four was salespeople. Hmm. Number three was media, the TV and radio presenters. I presume that doesn't extend to your average podcast host. Number two was lawyers and then number one, the number one profession attracting psychopaths, apparently CEOs, which is just really broad. Like, you just start a company and kill yourself, the CEO, which I guess if you do that, maybe you've got psychopathic tendencies. 

Thomas: [00:36:44] Bryce and L 

Adam: [00:36:45] Dollars Equity Mates True. Equity Mates always knew it. They come across as such nice guys. 

Adam: [00:36:52] But deep down, yeah. 

Adam: [00:36:55] But if you're looking at the other end of the spectrum, then the jobs of the least psychopaths number 10 was accountants. Number nine, interestingly, it was doctors. So if you can't see a doctor, then you're not likely to find a psychopath until you get referred by the doctor to the surgeon. Yeah. Number nine Creative Artist Number seven was a teacher, six charity worker, number five, a beautician or stylist, but that one surprised me a little bit. I don't know why. I think yeah. Number four craftsperson number three therapist to nurse number one, a care aide. So a lot of the sort of more caring type supportive roles. 

Thomas: [00:37:41] I think if you line that up against income for those professions, I think there's a pretty tight correlation. Mm-Hmm. Seems like which I think gets the point of a go getter, you know, like. Like a lot of psychopathic tendencies, do you very well in our economy putting, putting, putting yourself above others self-promotion, using others to your own ends? I don't know what defines a psychopath, but like they're the kind of things that get your head and get you into those high paying roles. I think we've got a system that funnels psychopaths, encourages them.

Adam: [00:38:18] Yeah. Think I know where we're going wrong. This has been a cheery show this week, hasn't it? Yeah, we've we've. We've covered world hunger. And why why is the capitalist society's no good climate crisis, why that can't be fixed, what can be fixed? And it all boils down to the fact that everything's run by psychopaths. All right. Well, good. Good to have you along again. As always, on career investors, economists hope you enjoy the episode. 

Adam: [00:38:46] Don't forget lots of other great shows across Equity Mates Media Equity Mates Investing Podcast Get Started Investing feed. You're in good company talk money to me by all means centres on email CVE at Equity Mates dot com or on the website Equity Mates dot com forward slash CVE, or join us on Instagram and Facebook at CVE Podcast. Oh, don't forget to there's Crypto Curious, which I think is starting this week at The Feed is definitely live to go and get that. If you're into into crypto and maybe be wanting to find out more about what can banks doing, I'm sure they'll be all across that. So yeah, as a thank you very much for joining us, Thomas. Thank you for joining me once again. Thank you, and we will talk to you next week.